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mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006



It's probably a DRM and rights issue--sending uncompressed CD quality audio over a link they can't DRM secure is a huge concern for music companies. Back in the day you used to be able to get CD players with optical outputs and minidisc recorders with optical inputs that could make a perfect digital copy of CDs. But the record companies freaked out and all of that tech disappeared.

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mystes
May 31, 2006



mod sassinator posted:

It's probably a DRM and rights issue--sending uncompressed CD quality audio over a link they can't DRM secure is a huge concern for music companies. Back in the day you used to be able to get CD players with optical outputs and minidisc recorders with optical inputs that could make a perfect digital copy of CDs. But the record companies freaked out and all of that tech disappeared.
Unlike video, music purchases aren't generally encrypted nowadays and I don't think there's anything preventing you from just recording it digitally on your computer anyway so I really don't think this is the reason.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 24 hours!


iTunes hasnít been DRMíed in ages and ages, but streaming stuff might be, depending on where itís being streamed from.

Like I wonder if a lot of iTunes Match/owned stuff isnít being streamed from the same place and source files as Apple Music

pzy
Feb 20, 2004

Da Boom!


Apple Music files are still .m4p, but if you buy the song (or iTunes Match it) it's a non-encrypted .m4a, with some customer info metadata embedded.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 24 hours!


pzy posted:

Apple Music files are still .m4p, but if you buy the song (or iTunes Match it) it's a non-encrypted .m4a, with some customer info metadata embedded.

yeah, I remember that metadata biz when trading songs with my buddy about a decade ago. Esp right after iTunes Match came out and I swapped all of my lovely old <200 kbps mp3s for nicer AACs. Like the digital audio file version of crabs, albeit functionally harmless ones unless somebody wanted to take you to court I guess, courtesy of Apple.

mdxi
Mar 13, 2006

to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING



Wedge Regret

Ok Comboomer posted:

when I can get my hands on an 8gb one Iíll put the bigblock-style one on it....

I used cheap aluminum heatsinks, but then mounted the Pis inside a tiny DIY windtunnel made of foam-core board. Current status is 9 days uptime at 100% utilization and:
code:
temp=47.0'C
temp=43.0'C
temp=46.0'C
temp=47.0'C

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

Ok Comboomer posted:

iTunes hasnít been DRMíed in ages and ages, but streaming stuff might be, depending on where itís being streamed from.

Like I wonder if a lot of iTunes Match/owned stuff isnít being streamed from the same place and source files as Apple Music

With Amazon music, if you don't own the song, it gets downloaded encrypted. If you do own the song, it gets downloaded as an MP3. I was never able to figure out how get a song to convert from encrypted to mp3 on my phone after owning a song. It was easier to accidentally completely delete my ownership of the song than it was to delete the encrypted file and download the mp3. I don't use Amazon music anymore.

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006



mystes posted:

Unlike video, music purchases aren't generally encrypted nowadays and I don't think there's anything preventing you from just recording it digitally on your computer anyway so I really don't think this is the reason.

No, all that music you stream from Spotify, Amazon, etc. is DRMed. Just search around there are tons of people looking for tools to remove the DRM: https://www.google.com/search?clien...d&q=spotify+drm

Yes if you explicitly buy an MP3 album from Amazon you get MP3s, but that's not common.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 24 hours!


mdxi posted:

I used cheap aluminum heatsinks, but then mounted the Pis inside a tiny DIY windtunnel made of foam-core board. Current status is 9 days uptime at 100% utilization and:
code:
temp=47.0'C
temp=43.0'C
temp=46.0'C
temp=47.0'C

meh, no rgb

mystes
May 31, 2006



mod sassinator posted:

No, all that music you stream from Spotify, Amazon, etc. is DRMed. Just search around there are tons of people looking for tools to remove the DRM: https://www.google.com/search?clien...d&q=spotify+drm
All those sites look pretty fake. Also, Spotify doesn't download files on the desktop versions at all, so there are no DRMed files to remove the DRM from and I highly doubt there are "tons of people looking for tools to remove" it. There may be third party programs to download music from Spotify, but I think that's a bit different.

Also, I said "music purchases" because I wasn't talking about streaming, but anyway, I don't think Spotify is using something similar to widevine DRM for video which attempts to prevent you from recording it on your own computer, so you can easily losslessly record the decompressed music in realtime if you want, so there would be no reason not to allow lossless music over bluetooth which is what you were saying.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 24 hours!


mystes posted:

All those sites look pretty fake. Also, Spotify doesn't download files on the desktop versions at all, so there are no DRMed files to remove the DRM from and I highly doubt there are "tons of people looking for tools to remove" it. There may be third party programs to download music from Spotify, but I think that's a bit different.

Also, I said "music purchases" because I wasn't talking about streaming, but anyway, I don't think Spotify is using something similar to widevine DRM for video which attempts to prevent you from recording it on your own computer, so you can easily losslessly record the decompressed music in realtime if you want, so there would be no reason not to allow lossless music over bluetooth which is what you were saying.

real-time recording tracks from Spotify like youíre bootlegging a tape is some serious old man poo poo, I love it.

mystes
May 31, 2006



Ok Comboomer posted:

real-time recording tracks from Spotify like youíre bootlegging a tape is some serious old man poo poo, I love it.
I was responding to someone who said that the reason bluetooth doesn't support lossless audio was to prevent you from recording music. This would also be in realtime unless I'm missing something.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

Bluetooth doesn't support lossless because it takes a lot of bandwidth and power

Malloc Voidstar
May 7, 2007

Fuck the cowboys. Unf. Fuck em hard.

Hadlock posted:

I think aptX over BT is CD quality? 384 kb/s @ 48khz fixed?

I think there is an older standard, SBC that is crappier, ever so slightly

SBC, AAC aptX are all lossy, I have trouble hearing the compression loss at 384kb/s personally. Spotify maxes out at 320kb/s @44.1 khz so it may be the bottleneck
I bought a $5 BT adapter once that claimed it supported aptX and not only did it lie about that but it only supported mono audio. I wouldn't be surprised if some super-budget adapter has a terrible SBC encoder in it that only uses 128kbps or is just bad quality in general. If I was going to be hooking up a Pi to audio equipment I'd want to stay wired rather than buying a BT adapter the price of a Pi. (but not using the pi's hilariously bad DAC)

Also I think aptX is actually older than SBC, Qualcomm says it was designed in the "late 80s" while SBC was designed by the Bluetooth SIG (founded in 1998)

excellent bird guy
Jan 1, 2020




https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...CH6UTUPHT&psc=1

I was going to buy this GeeekPi metal case with icetower cooler. I don't care much for the Canakit case. Just going to run emulationstation/retropie, maybe I can get that Kodi app I've had trouble with to work.

Wouldn't mind picking up the 8gb edition, installing TwisterOS, and having a good time.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 24 hours!


excellent bird guy posted:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...CH6UTUPHT&psc=1

I was going to buy this GeeekPi metal case with icetower cooler. I don't care much for the Canakit case. Just going to run emulationstation/retropie, maybe I can get that Kodi app I've had trouble with to work.

Wouldn't mind picking up the 8gb edition, installing TwisterOS, and having a good time.

gently caress a case, youíre gonna want to run that sucker nude (nah, I guess it gets excessive after a while. That case is pretty cool at probably letting some of the light shine out w/o it being all crazy and in-your-face about it)

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?


taqueso posted:

Bluetooth doesn't support lossless because it takes a lot of bandwidth and power
Bluetooth since version 2.0 (2004) has a 3 megabit per second mode that seems to support 2.1 megabits per second of real-world data. Literal CD audio (16 bit 48kHz stereo) is 1.536 megabits per second, so that should work fine as long as the signal quality is sufficient.

There is also technically a mode in Bluetooth 3.0 and beyond where devices with shared BT/WiFi chips (very common) can set up a high speed transfer using Bluetooth but pass it off to the WiFi radio in a limited 802.11g mode up to 24 mbit/sec, but I honestly have never actually seen that used in the real world.

Power is definitely relevant to some use cases, but the original context was connecting a computer device that's plugged in to the wall to an A/V system that's plugged in to the wall. The amount of power used by the Bluetooth part of the equation is more or less irrelevant in this context. Likewise for wirelessly linking surround speakers to a soundbar, connecting a phone to a car in-dash system, etc.

Obviously it's not something you'd want to do with a set of wireless earbuds and your phone in your pocket, but there are plenty of use cases where it would make sense. Hell, I'm sure the same parts of the audiophile crowd who build battery-powered external DAC/headphone amps to use studio headphones with their mobile phones would happily deal with the limitations.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Malloc Voidstar posted:

I bought a $5 BT adapter once that claimed it supported aptX and not only did it lie about that but it only supported mono audio. I wouldn't be surprised if some super-budget adapter has a terrible SBC encoder in it that only uses 128kbps or is just bad quality in general. If I was going to be hooking up a Pi to audio equipment I'd want to stay wired rather than buying a BT adapter the price of a Pi. (but not using the pi's hilariously bad DAC)

If your bad BT adapter was for the PC, it was probably the software / drivers being crap. BT on PC sucked for a good long time, but MS has actually made great strides in win10 to improve things. The standard windows BT stack supports normal aptX in stereo.

And while aptX sucks as a audio codec in comparison to anything modern, BT gets around it by throwing 3-400 kbps at the problem. That's enough bits to be transparent CD quality for it.


(All of this has nothing to do with the Pi. I tried fiddling around with my Pi to make it into a BT audio receiver and couldn't get anything to work, but I think BT output is much easier.)

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

I've been thinking about getting a Raspberry Pi 4 (probably 8 GB), mostly just to play around with it as a curiosity, and I wanted to get a sanity-check if what I'm planning is going to work.

I'm going to buy a kit that includes

the Pi itself
a plastic case for it
a USB-C power supply
a micro-HDMI-to-standard-HDMI cable
a 16 GB microSD card
some aluminium heatsinks for the Pi

and I'm also planning to buy, separately, a microSD reader that plugs into a USB slot, so that I can work with the microSD card from my desktop

I'm going to use balenaEtcher to put a Lubuntu image (it's the Linux distro I'm most familiar/comfortable with) on the microSD card through my Windows desktop
plug the microSD card into the Pi
plug a keyboard and a mouse into the USB slots
plug the micro-HDMI end into the Pi, and the standard HDMI end into a monitor
plug the power supply into the USB-C slot and the other end into an electrical socket
plug the Pi into my internet router with a LAN cable

and then that should give me a working computer with a desktop interface, right?

a couple of questions:

how do I turn it on?
does the Pi have wifi capability out-of-the-box? (if not I also have a USB wifi adapter)
since I assume the SD card is going to be the primary storage of the thing, can I get/use a larger microSD card?

Quantum of Phallus
Dec 27, 2010



gradenko_2000 posted:


how do I turn it on?
does the Pi have wifi capability out-of-the-box? (if not I also have a USB wifi adapter)
since I assume the SD card is going to be the primary storage of the thing, can I get/use a larger microSD card?

You turn it on by first plugging in your HDMI cable and then the power cable.
It has Wifi built in but potentially won't be enabled out of the box depending on your distro. Raspberry PiOS has it working straight away but some Linux distros won't.
I would get bigger than 16gb, the OS will take up a fair bit so if you're gonna be running any serious amount of apps on it, you'll hit that quickly.

gourdcaptain
Nov 16, 2012



Quantum of Phallus posted:

You turn it on by first plugging in your HDMI cable and then the power cable.

Depending on your use case and how much it annoys you, it may be worth buying an in-line power switch of either the USB or power socket variety to allow turning it on and off without having to plug and unplug it.

Ok Comboomer
Oct 20, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 24 hours!


If youíre simple like me, get a USB-C cable with an integrated power switch (like $5 on Az, they market them specifically for rPis, make sure you donít get one for a Pi 3 by mistake).

And get a big dumb ICETower, gently caress a case

bolind
Jun 19, 2005



Pillbug

If you have the option of wiring it up with an Ethernet cable, even just temporarily, that can quench a few unknowns. But seeing as it sounds like you wonít be running it headless, it should be fine either way.

Also, donít be afraid to try different distros. Itís very simple to just burn a different one and give it a go.

abraham linksys
Sep 6, 2010



if you're getting the Canakit kit, the power cable an inline switch on it

excellent bird guy posted:

I was going to buy this GeeekPi metal case with icetower cooler. I don't care much for the Canakit case. Just going to run emulationstation/retropie, maybe I can get that Kodi app I've had trouble with to work.

curious how you like this. my only beef with the Canakit case is it's so lightweight that the very light pull of controller/power/video/ethernet cables is enough to pull it every which way and even keep it from resting flat on the surface. been thinking I need to tape a rock to the top of it or something

gourdcaptain
Nov 16, 2012



abraham linksys posted:

if you're getting the Canakit kit, the power cable an inline switch on it

Huh, was that a later addition? I got one of the near-launch Pi 4 kits from them and it didn't have a switch on the power cable or the fan I know they included with later units.

abraham linksys
Sep 6, 2010



gourdcaptain posted:

Huh, was that a later addition? I got one of the near-launch Pi 4 kits from them and it didn't have a switch on the power cable or the fan I know they included with later units.

might be, I only got mine a month or so ago. oddly, it's not actually pictured in the product page for the one I got (the 32 gig starter kit), but is for the "MAX" kit and the one with a display. they do sell it separately: https://www.canakit.com/raspberry-p...wer-switch.html

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


An easy power switch almost seems like an anti-feature for a Pi, when dirty shutdowns are a risk for SD card corruption.

excellent bird guy
Jan 1, 2020




abraham linksys posted:

if you're getting the Canakit kit, the power cable an inline switch on it

I bought the Canakit in the beginning for, 100 or so. I guess all the extra cables are fine but that case+fan is a cowabunga piece of dogshit.
The new case should be coming in soon. The issue is that you can't access the SD card without unscrewing everything. My experience so far with the Raspberry is you hot swap the SD cards like gameboy cartridges to play with different images.
Oh yea the usb to microsd adapter thing sucks so much, it took me about 12 hours to mount a 240 image to the SD card.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012





Gravy Boat 2k

Klyith posted:

An easy power switch almost seems like an anti-feature for a Pi, when dirty shutdowns are a risk for SD card corruption.

It's insane to me that they're on like the eighth revision of the board after more than ten years and they still haven't done anything to address this extremely common problem. Surely they could write a slightly different disk management module that would do better checksumming of the SD card data? Or if that's not possible for some reason, they could add a 50 cent capacitor and brownout detector to the BOM that would give them 500 milliseconds to stop any writes before the power goes out?

Skarsnik
Oct 21, 2008

I...AM...RUUUDE!






Slippery Tilde

It was common years ago, not now

I've not had a corrupted card in forever, across the 5 or 6 pi I have running, regularly getting the power yanked

insta
Jan 28, 2009


Skarsnik posted:

It was common years ago, not now

I've not had a corrupted card in forever, across the 5 or 6 pi I have running, regularly getting the power yanked

I get literal bit-rot on my MicroCenter SD cards. The 16gb ones killed 4 separate OctoPrint instances across 6 Pi's. Swapping brands fixed it.

Skarsnik
Oct 21, 2008

I...AM...RUUUDE!






Slippery Tilde

insta posted:

I get literal bit-rot on my MicroCenter SD cards. The 16gb ones killed 4 separate OctoPrint instances across 6 Pi's. Swapping brands fixed it.

Yeah I should have added the caveat of using non poo poo cards

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ante
Apr 9, 2005

SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS

That's a big caveat tbh and the one that always bites me

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