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sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



You people saying anything about vaporware are uninformed. The first batch of 10,000 is actually fabricated and complete. They are being tested and freighted to the UK as we speak.

As far as on-board wireless, and any other ideas you have, someone else has already thought of them, and the foundation is considering releasing more versions in the future. The goal was to make them as cheaply as possible to get them into the hands of children. The fact that people like us are interested as well is an unexpected bonus for them.

I think it's pretty crazy that anyone expects more for $25-35. You can put a tiny USB wifi dongle in it if you want to anyways.

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sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



~Coxy posted:

They're vapour until you can actually buy one, which will be when the second batch is ready to sell.
I'm sorry to be blunt because I really really want one (two) but I'm not holding my breath for them.

You can buy one in like a week. The entire first batch is being sold to whoever wants them, so I don't understand what you're on about. Granted, the demand is probably far greater than the initial supply but that is still not even close to vaporware.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Pochoclo posted:

So when will they ship to Argentina, and how much can I expect to pay for them? Let's see, adding taxes and shipping... that'll go up to 100 dollars. Which is like paying 500 bucks for us.

That's about as much as a non-liberated Nokia E5 goes for, on which I can play a NES emulator, and I've got a decent camera and stuff and it's actually portable. Is there any other advantage to this Pi thing? Because otherwise it doesn't look like much of a deal, and while 25 bucks sounds like perfect for an expendable little computer to gift to my friend's daughter and stuff, 500 bucks is pushing it. gently caress third world economies.

Their shipping is going to be very reasonable (actual cost I think), but I have no idea about shipping to Argentina or what your own country will charge you in taxes. If you have any friends that live in a country with less than loving 300% import duty then maybe you can have one re-shipped to you as a gift?

They will ship to Argentina from the very first board that is sold from the production lot (~1 week from now). Worldwide shipping is and always has been an option right from the start.

edit: It seems that you are interested in the $25 version (Model A), which will not be available at launch.

sleepy gary fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Feb 22, 2012

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Kaludan posted:

Seriously looking forward to this.

I'm still expecting the company to get bought and liquidated by a major manufacturer though.

What is there to liquidate?

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Daerc posted:

Yeah, it's kind of odd. Fortunately there's a shot on their wiki. Which I also put below.



To clarify, something on there does call this a beta board, so it's not necessarily indicative of what the next run will look like.

It will look the same except the GPIO headers will be absent.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



SpaceAceJase posted:

What gives you the impression that anyone here thinks it's anything more than what it is? It's a tiny ARM computer.

No, he's right. Most people just don't get it which is fine, but I don't understand why some of them feel the need to poo poo on the idea. If you don't like it or see any potential in it, then don't loving buy one.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



This launch was truly botched, but the foundation is just a few people who took on massive risk and spent countless hours of their time to do this. Calm down, everyone. If you want one, you'll have one. I think you will survive in the mean time.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



inpheaux posted:

(re: Model A availability at launch)
Nah, they said both would be available at launch.

No, they said over and over and over again that only the Model B would be in the first production run.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



rueben26 posted:

I'm eyeing this and the Cotton Candy FXI (usb/hdmi/ubuntu/android/$199 USD).

Anyone thought about ordering the Cotton Candy?

It's a very interesting device but it seems awfully expensive to me.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



silversum posted:

I got an email about 45 minutes ago from Newark saying my place in line to preorder was ready. It gave me a ship date of 04/03 which isn't too bad!

Yeah I got that yesterday or the day before. I decided to hold off for now.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Space Gopher posted:



kids aren't allowed to take the school's computers home with them usually. it's nice to let them have more than 30 minutes three times a week (or whatever schedule) to work, don't you think?

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Space Gopher posted:

So now you're talking about buying one of these for every single student? All of a sudden they're looking anything but cheap.

First of all, I don't give a poo poo about using these for educational tools. They can use them if they feel they will be useful for a particular curriculum, or not use them if they feel otherwise. What is the big deal about that? Nobody is forcing you to buy one, or forcing you to buy one for your kids, so what is your problem?

Second, did you go to school and do anything other than the very minimum? Did you play an instrument, join a sports team, join any clubs, anything at all? All of those things cost more than $35, or at least they did when I was a kid and that was a while ago. A lot more, in fact. Hell, a single field trip sometimes cost more than $35. A Raspberry Pi for a student interested in programming is an absolutely trivial educational expense.

My point is: shut the gently caress up and move on if you don't see any potential or use for this device. Nobody cares about what you think they're not useful for. The rest of us are too busy trying to narrow down what we'll do with them from the thousands of ideas we have.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



peepsalot posted:

So, are there people working on porting android to this? I was just discussing with a friend how this would be pretty neat for a carputer running android possibly.

Is there anything about the board that would make it unsuitable or especially difficult to run Andriod on?

I think it is questionable whether modern Android builds will run very well on it given the amount of memory. However it is inevitable that Android will be on it, and soon.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Install Gentoo posted:

If you trust kids with a bare circuit board computer to not mess it up, well that's pretty silly. You'd also be relying on them having everything else needed to use it at home (compatible display, input devices, and being allowed to use all them). Tons of people still don't have TVs at home that accept HDMI, and composite SD video is pretty drat crappy for coding and use, especially if this thing can't autodetect when on composite output to adjust display.


Yes, you can trust kids with bare circuit boards to not mess it up. Some hamfists will gently caress it up but most won't. See also: musical instruments, cameras, laptops, etc.

Pretty much everyone has a display that accepts HDMI. If they don't, yes, the kid could use composite, and it's not that bad. People used it for many years with great results. We have the same eyes today as we did in 1985.

Keyboard and mouse: free or like $10 max.

Seriously, this is the cost of a single field trip. Again, I don't care if it gets used in schools the way the foundation wants, but I see no problems with it. You guys are inventing problems.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Install Gentoo posted:

About 70% of Americans have HDTVs. Not all of those have HDMI in, many are older and don't have it. That's 30% or more of your potential students who may be stuck on composite displays. So that's going to be a problem if you're going to have them write graphical programs since 480i is going to require compromises to display things well.

And maybe you've forgotten but programming on 480i composite displays was annoying as hell back then and still is today, if you want the text to be clear when you're doing it you're talking 40 column 20 something line displays, and that's going to be different from the programming environment on the same thing at school with real monitors.

And something being "the cost of a field trip" isn't going to guarantee your students have it, you simply can't rely on their parents buying it.

Noone's inventing problems for an education environment here, if you're saying these are good to have students take home, that's pretty much just wrong since they don't have everything you need built in.

good lord, man.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Install Gentoo posted:

Yeah good lord, I actually thought through the problems in using these for take-home school poo poo.

No, you really didn't. You conjured up a bunch of nonsense. Parents of freaking 5 year olds have to spend like $100 just on a mandatory list of school supplies (stationery and things) at the beginning of every school year.

And you think these kids are going home to a house with no televisions, no way to spend $25 or $35 on a computer, impossible to obtain such exotic hardware as a keyboard and mouse, etc. Do you think all these kids in programming classes go home to a thicket in the woods or something?

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



peepsalot posted:

RaspBMC is gonna own so hard

Anyone know if this thing will suppport SDXC cards?

Yes it does.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Install Gentoo posted:

Who said they have no televisions? I said tons of kids won't be able to use them on the TVs they have, and newsflash: non-spergs don't just buy extra mice and keyboards around the house.
Newsflash: Mice and keyboards are dirt loving cheap. You are a dirtbag piece of poo poo if you can't afford that for your kid. Do you have any idea how much it costs kids to play sports or learn a musical instrument or any of the other things I have said? A lot more than this will ever cost.

quote:

You simply can't expect all your students to have everything they need to use one of these at home - that's why it's a poo poo idea to recommend them for take-home programming stuff. It's really stupid that you expect that every student would have everything needed to actually use one of these at home.

It's really stupid that you expect that the vast majority of kids who have access to a computer science curriculum would not be able to afford to get totally loving kitted out with one of these. These kids already have laptops. Get off it already.

quote:

And the fact that you think not having spare electronics for a raspberry pi sitting around the house = shack in the woods is pretty telling of how out of touch you are.

Nice straw-man, but it's not working.

Let me summarize:

Your argument: " you can't expect kids to have access to a television or fifty dollars!"
My argument: "yes you can"

sleepy gary fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Mar 6, 2012

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Anal Tributary posted:

In that case, what advantage does an RP give them over their, yknow, laptop? Just curious. I've heard people say "oh they can do systems-level programming without loving anything up!" but I'm not sure why that's even something you would want to teach middle/high school students in 2012.

Let me repeat myself here: I am not arguing FOR RPi's use in the classroom. I'm arguing against the asinine reasons people are saying they're bunk for that purpose.

But if you want me to think of some reasons, here goes:
1) You can talk to RPi with GPIO and custom electronics, sensors, robotics, you name it. You might not want to let kids attach homebrew electronics to a computer that may be essential to their other academics.
2) Cheap to the point of being disposable, as has been mentioned, despite some people asserting that these are a financial burden.
3) Unified architecture and hardware -- every student has a homogenous dev kit. No issues with software compatibility or hardware being absent or anything like that. Very useful for having a standard curriculum (and I am assuming this wouldn't be just Python programming or something, but that they'd go a bit deeper (assembly, etc)).

There are probably other reasons, but I haven't thought about it much because I don't care about this aspect of the device.

Basically, all of these needs would be met by an Arduino, but Arduino is the same price as RPi, so that's kind of a toss-up and depends on what or how you want to teach, I guess.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Install Gentoo posted:

You're so clueless here. We neve rhad to pay for sports equipment for gym class, and if you wanted to be in the band they had school-owned kinda crappy instruments kids who couldn't afford their own would use. Also yeah wow all poor people are pieces of poo poo, nice opinion Mitt Romney.

That's not stupid at all, it's reality. What kids already have laptops? You're seriously claiming that everyone has laptops for their kids now? If they have laptops then why not have them use that instead of this?

There's no strawmen here. And you're pretty drat out of touch and nerdy to think everyone has what they'd need already for their kid to use one of these at home. I mean seriously do you not even know that poor people exist? And their kids go to school?

I said sports, not gym class. Those are different things, you see. Where I grew up (lower-middle class at best), sports all cost quite a lot to join. Learning an instrument, you could RENT the school's crappy stuff every year or buy your own. Again, not cheap. And every year I remember my parents shelling out at least $40-100 on field trips, most of which were totally worthless, not to mention random required garbage (plastic recorders, books, etc).

I guess you went to more affluent set of schools than I did.

I keep saying that keyboards and mice are cheap if they don't have them (I've said this like four times can you please do me a favor and read my posts more carefully?), not that everyone will have them at home... you keep saying that not me. I even said "fifty dollars" in my last post to help you understand that I am including those items in the outlay.

And I don't think it's out of touch and "nerdy" that I expect everyone has a television.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Install Gentoo posted:

You're specifically saying these would be part of a programming class: that is the same as gym, not after school sports. You don't have to pay poo poo to play a sport in gym class. And ok so you've finally realized that people might not be able to afford things for a class, but don't get that that's bad.

Saying keyboards and mice are cheap is pointless: that doesn't mean everyone can afford them. Like you seem to think that "cheap" ="everyone can buy it".

It's out of touch and nerdy to expect everyone to have a television that the kid will be able and allowed to use for this, and also the other necessary equipment.

I have no idea how it would be set up in schools, but here, gym was mandatory for graduation. We had choices in what "specialized" classes to take, as long as you met all the requirements (it's been a while and I don't remember the specifics). The way I'm assuming "programming class" (hopefully it'd be a little more generic computer science with some applications) would be one of these types of electives.

If your family truly, honestly can't afford fifty bucks for your education, then you're probably not living in a school district that has a programming class in the first place. I don't know what to tell you. Fifty dollars is a drop in the bucket for any given year worth of required purchases for a child in school.

edit: Or five packs of cigarettes.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Install Gentoo posted:

So you actually want programming classes to start costing money, so that students will have to take home something that they may not be able to use? What's wrong with doing what schools with programming classes do now where you are given access to what you need for it for free?

You actually think there's no such thing as poor people in any school with a programming class? Are you high?

What are you trying to imply, that anyone who can't afford buying extra stuff for their kid smokes too much?

Dude. Calm down.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Install Gentoo posted:

How about you smarten up and realize that classes requiring students buying extra stuff is a bad idea for your average school? And stop saying poo poo about how about if parents can't afford to buy this stuff they're bad people.

You said "You are a dirtbag piece of poo poo if you can't afford that for your kid", that's straight up disgusting.


It was explicitly being said that students would have to bring the raspberry pi home to do their assignments - and that's what I have a beef with. Using them in class itself is fine because the school would have everything needed to use them.

The RPi is just one more option of what the people who make decisions in schools can choose from. You can rant and rave and lob ad-homs at me all night long but I don't run any schools nor do I care one way or the other how they set up their computer science curricula.

peepsalot posted:

Schools are not going to suddenly be forcing every poverty stricken family to spend the last of their food money on these. Give it a loving rest and stop threadshitting.

amen.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Will you please start a thread in D&D or somewhere besides here if you want to debate whether or not parents should be asked to spend money on their offspring's academic supplies? This is not the place.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Too Poetic posted:

You have never been poor or been around poor people in your life have you?

Yes you and Install Gentoo have me pegged. I actually am Mitt Romney in real life.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Gehenomm posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Micro

This was the poo poo and i'm all for getting my dumbass of a daughter to learn programming like her dumbass of a dad did so long ago.

I'm all for supporting the computer class concept.

Yeah I really, really wish I had had an opportunity like that when I was a kid.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Space Gopher posted:

You realize that, adjusted for inflation, a base-model BBC Micro cost 703? You have the opportunity, right now, to buy your kid a computer that costs half as much as a BBC Micro did, and then you can load it up with free professional development tools to boot. A sufficiently motivated kid can peel apart and play with the source code to a modern operating system, and get advice from professionals in the field while they do it. There is no need to go back to some mythical "golden age" of C64s and BBC Micros, because the opportunities available today are infinitely better.

The problem here is not a lack of computers, or a lack of tools. It is the lack of worthwhile programming curricula, an attitude on the part of teachers and administrators that programming is not a worthwhile way to spend precious classroom hours, and a lack of qualified instructors. Putting all your hope in "if we just buy them this gadget and let them play with it, things will somehow work out and they'll all want to program!" is silly. Want to give kids the opportunity to learn how computers work at a fundamental level? Great. Teach them, don't build a field of dreams.

Agreed with all this.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Tiger.Bomb posted:

I can't believe these kittens are still arguing. Someone get the spray bottle.

IMO: Good for learning, not as revolutionary as they're hoping (for a lot of the reasons cat#2 said) but since that's not what I care to use it for, I am pretty excited. For now my arm development board is a Gameboy Advance.

we're actually the same cat

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Star War Sex Butt posted:

Jesus so much fishmeching in there. Can we get back to talking about Raspberry pi?

I unironically love fishmech

edit: and the Raspberry Pi

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



These poor guys can't catch a break: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/781

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Chuu posted:

Does anyone know exactly what these magnets do? I've been googleing trying to figure out electrically what is different but am failing.

Jacks with "magnetics" included help filter out common-mode noise and improve the signal in general. That allows for simpler circuit design on the PCB.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Where do you see that? The element14 orders were supposed to ship in early April. At least, when they offered me an order, it was supposed to ship April 3 or something. I didn't take it though.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



If this is true I can't even comprehend how big of a fuckup this whole launch has been.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



That's some good news.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



ok apparently the latest issue is that farnell and element14 are refusing to ship until the rpi is CE certified. It's a little ridiculous that they're requiring that and even more ridiculous that nobody knew about it until now.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



movax posted:

Hell, just open-source the schematics (not even the artwork/Gerbers!) so people can get some boards made and assemble it themselves!

How are you going to obtain the CPU/GPU/RAM IC?

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



movax posted:

Avnet or Arrow NAC I'd imagine, whoever Broadcom's distributor is. None of the supply issues so far have been linked to lead times from Broadcom, have they?

No, but the RPi foundation had to work very hard to convince Broadcom to sell them such a small lot of 10,000.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



movax posted:

Ahh, gotcha. Now I assume RPi foundation is going to be left footing the bill for getting CE testing done? I'm in the midst of CE tests at work right now as well, and the lab time is not cheap

Yeah, I can't imagine any other scenario. They're being a bit opaque lately and I'm a little annoyed about it.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



They thought they were exempt because it is not a finished product.

sleepy gary fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Apr 1, 2012

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sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006



Factory Factory posted:

Stupid question: because of the GPIO header, the Raspberry Pi can do anything an Arduino can? Or does the Arduino have some other additional features?

It can do quite a lot more, but it may not be as straightforward and simple to use as an arduino, depending on the task. Also, in case it matters to you, there are no headers on the board. If you want to bring out the GPIO you need to add your own headers.

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