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divabot
Jun 17, 2015

Assisted Living Dracula of Wikipedia

DO NOT BELIEVE THIS MAN'S LIE!
Statist shill spreading FUD!

HODL!!


Dr. Fishopolis posted:

edit: i hope you're savoring the irony of the fact that the whole reason they hired you is because you're good at deconstructing scammy corporate poo poo wrapped up in buzzwords.

The implicit threat in the letter I sent back was "see how the bit where I go through your contract is formatted just like one of my blog posts?"

otoh, these mumbleflippers, I don't think they understand text, let alone subtext

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BetterLekNextTime
Jul 22, 2008

It's all a matter of perspective...


Grimey Drawer

Hopefully this belongs here... Looking for advice on pricing a custom job.

I've been lurking in Dorkroom as a hobbies for a number of years but this year started selling nature photography products, mostly greeting cards and one calendar. My one calendar design is entirely scenes from my local park, is priced at $20, and cost me ~$8 to print when I buy 100. (side note, I've already sold 50 in the first month!)

A friend just asked me if I could do a custom calendar with some of my best images from Alaska, Yellowstone, etc. She wants somewhere between 5 and 10 copies. Assuming I don't want to work up this design for general sale and use the same print house where I can get a hardcopy proof, go through revisions, order in volume etc, is it more typical to only charge for design time and then sell the calendars at cost, or to charge for design and add a mark-up to the calendars?

gmc9987
Jul 25, 2007


BetterLekNextTime posted:

Hopefully this belongs here... Looking for advice on pricing a custom job.

I've been lurking in Dorkroom as a hobbies for a number of years but this year started selling nature photography products, mostly greeting cards and one calendar. My one calendar design is entirely scenes from my local park, is priced at $20, and cost me ~$8 to print when I buy 100. (side note, I've already sold 50 in the first month!)

A friend just asked me if I could do a custom calendar with some of my best images from Alaska, Yellowstone, etc. She wants somewhere between 5 and 10 copies. Assuming I don't want to work up this design for general sale and use the same print house where I can get a hardcopy proof, go through revisions, order in volume etc, is it more typical to only charge for design time and then sell the calendars at cost, or to charge for design and add a mark-up to the calendars?

My initial opinion: You're selling the other calendars at a profit because you took the time to design them and take the pictures without being paid for it. If you're being paid to design a custom calendar, that won't be for sale elsewhere, and is a seriously limited-run type deal that will probably cost more per calendar because you're only ordering less than a dozen - I would just include the calendar at cost and charge an hourly rate (or what you estimate the flat-rate equivalent is) for the design time. I'd also include that the client has to pay for one more copy than they want in the end, for you to have one for your portfolio.

BetterLekNextTime
Jul 22, 2008

It's all a matter of perspective...


Grimey Drawer

gmc9987 posted:

My initial opinion: You're selling the other calendars at a profit because you took the time to design them and take the pictures without being paid for it. If you're being paid to design a custom calendar, that won't be for sale elsewhere, and is a seriously limited-run type deal that will probably cost more per calendar because you're only ordering less than a dozen - I would just include the calendar at cost and charge an hourly rate (or what you estimate the flat-rate equivalent is) for the design time. I'd also include that the client has to pay for one more copy than they want in the end, for you to have one for your portfolio.

Thanks for this. I got this same advice from someone off-forum so I think that's what I'm going to do. It will also help me decide if it's really worth it for me to do this project.

And yes, I already was planning to require at least one copy for myself. My thought was to get one for myself as a proof to make sure it looks OK before I place the eventual order. But having it for my portfolio makes a lot of sense too.

Whoa, now I'm a graphic designer!

gmc9987
Jul 25, 2007


If the client wants reprints later on down the line, you can discuss a per-calendar or flat reorder fee then.

BetterLekNextTime posted:

Whoa, now I'm a graphic designer!

Welcome to the party, it's the kind of party where everyone mooches off your beer and cigarettes and then sends you to buy more while they keep partying.

lofi
Apr 2, 2018






There are other sorts?!

divabot
Jun 17, 2015

Assisted Living Dracula of Wikipedia

DO NOT BELIEVE THIS MAN'S LIE!
Statist shill spreading FUD!

HODL!!


Tax question! As a good statist, I give lots of money to HMRC so that they may oppress bitcoiners and so forth beneath their jackboots.

So, I'm in the UK, and I'm about to start freelancing for a US-based publication without a UK office. So they'll be paying me from there.

What is the tax situation in 2019? Does anyone here happen to know?

I know in 2010 it was: US withholds tax, you claim that on your UK return. Not sure what it is now tho.

Tubgoat
Jun 30, 2013



Hey thread! How do I sell paintings? They're not mine, I'm looking to sell them on behalf of the artist. He's a famous-ish artist, several of whose paintings hang in the Vatican, many more in the hands of private collectors such as the wife of Jeb! Bush. I don't have any connections in the art dealing world.
The artist is old, lives out in the sticks, is not mobile and doesn't speak English, else there's a reasonably good chance he'd do it himself. Most of my communication with him happens through his son (I'm working on learning Spanish). I live a state over near a larger population centre.
I have eight of his paintings in my possession and have compiled a small portfolio of those paintings and some pics of correspondence with interchangeable bigwigs (at-the-time French ambassador, head of some church in former Yugoslavia, photograph of him with Desmond Tutu, etc).
There are a few art galleries near me but I don't wanna go in and be like "Hi! I'm a gullible rube who just happens to hold several excellent paintings! Give me a lot of money for them!" and accept a pittance.
What do? I want to sell them for the ridiculous amounts fine paintings sell for so that I can help the artist support his family and also afford nice things like food and shelter and a partner and also not have to work an infintely more soul-crushing job.
Thanks y'all!

Also advice on how to income taxes regarding this business would be swell too. I live in the US and don't plan on escaping ever, though I certainly wouldn't turn down an opportunity to do so.

divabot
Jun 17, 2015

Assisted Living Dracula of Wikipedia

DO NOT BELIEVE THIS MAN'S LIE!
Statist shill spreading FUD!

HODL!!


divabot posted:

Tax question! As a good statist, I give lots of money to HMRC so that they may oppress bitcoiners and so forth beneath their jackboots.

So, I'm in the UK, and I'm about to start freelancing for a US-based publication without a UK office. So they'll be paying me from there.

What is the tax situation in 2019? Does anyone here happen to know?

I know in 2010 it was: US withholds tax, you claim that on your UK return. Not sure what it is now tho.

The answer appears to be either:

1. our dear old friend W-8BEN, then they send your $$ and don't withhold anything
2. they just go "lol" and send your $$ and don't withhold anything

either way I tell HMRC in the proper manner and all is well from my end

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"




Grimey Drawer

Tubgoat posted:

Hey thread! How do I sell paintings? They're not mine, I'm looking to sell them on behalf of the artist. He's a famous-ish artist, several of whose paintings hang in the Vatican, many more in the hands of private collectors such as the wife of Jeb! Bush. I don't have any connections in the art dealing world.
The artist is old, lives out in the sticks, is not mobile and doesn't speak English, else there's a reasonably good chance he'd do it himself. Most of my communication with him happens through his son (I'm working on learning Spanish). I live a state over near a larger population centre.
I have eight of his paintings in my possession and have compiled a small portfolio of those paintings and some pics of correspondence with interchangeable bigwigs (at-the-time French ambassador, head of some church in former Yugoslavia, photograph of him with Desmond Tutu, etc).
There are a few art galleries near me but I don't wanna go in and be like "Hi! I'm a gullible rube who just happens to hold several excellent paintings! Give me a lot of money for them!" and accept a pittance.
What do? I want to sell them for the ridiculous amounts fine paintings sell for so that I can help the artist support his family and also afford nice things like food and shelter and a partner and also not have to work an infintely more soul-crushing job.
Thanks y'all!

Also advice on how to income taxes regarding this business would be swell too. I live in the US and don't plan on escaping ever, though I certainly wouldn't turn down an opportunity to do so.
If he's that big a name artist then you could pay to get them appraised and then sell them to a gallery or auction them (do not get them appraised by the same people you sell them to). I have no idea what to do about the taxes situation.

JuniperCake
Jan 26, 2013


Tubgoat posted:

Hey thread! How do I sell paintings? They're not mine, I'm looking to sell them on behalf of the artist. He's a famous-ish artist, several of whose paintings hang in the Vatican, many more in the hands of private collectors such as the wife of Jeb! Bush. I don't have any connections in the art dealing world.
The artist is old, lives out in the sticks, is not mobile and doesn't speak English, else there's a reasonably good chance he'd do it himself. Most of my communication with him happens through his son (I'm working on learning Spanish). I live a state over near a larger population centre.
I have eight of his paintings in my possession and have compiled a small portfolio of those paintings and some pics of correspondence with interchangeable bigwigs (at-the-time French ambassador, head of some church in former Yugoslavia, photograph of him with Desmond Tutu, etc).
There are a few art galleries near me but I don't wanna go in and be like "Hi! I'm a gullible rube who just happens to hold several excellent paintings! Give me a lot of money for them!" and accept a pittance.
What do? I want to sell them for the ridiculous amounts fine paintings sell for so that I can help the artist support his family and also afford nice things like food and shelter and a partner and also not have to work an infintely more soul-crushing job.
Thanks y'all!

Also advice on how to income taxes regarding this business would be swell too. I live in the US and don't plan on escaping ever, though I certainly wouldn't turn down an opportunity to do so.

This seems like something you'd want to contact a reputable art agent about, someone with connections and who knows the market. At the very least have one as a consultant if you still want to do all the work yourself.

Specifically find one that represents artists who create similiar kinds of paintings (and are as well known) as your friend. If you talk to an agent, you can flat out ask them who their clients are if needed. It's not rude and it sounds like you are in a position to be picky about agents.

JuniperCake fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Feb 6, 2019

Tubgoat
Jun 30, 2013



I've found a couple appraisers near me who also do auctions, so I believe I'm finally on the right track. Thank y'all so very much!

Zapf Dingbat
Jan 9, 2001




I have a friend who really wants to get started in making a living out of auto and auto racing photography. Would you guys think that the same rules as sports photography apply? Can anyone point me in a general of a good place for him to start researching?

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Also sexism, religious bias, jingoism, and so on. Don't do it, people!

Dogs, don't do it either, even if the police man really tries to train you to do it.



My wife was contacted by someone who wants to order a print of one of her works. The thing is neither of us have any idea where to go to get a print made for a decent price. Should we be looking at a print on demand place online? Do local printers (assuming there is such a thing) tend offer a better price than online places if you're just getting one made?

That also made us think, what are the good print on demand storefronts to make accounts on if she decides she wants to go that route? It seems like that could be a bit of relatively low-effort income to put up her non-commissioned pieces on sites where maybe she'll sell a few copies.

She's just now starting to get into making three figures per month after doing digital art half her life, so anything beyond a Facebook and Deviantart pages is a new and confusing frontier.

gmc9987
Jul 25, 2007


For printing, you'll usually be able to get better deals through online printing services because (much like Amazon) an online service doesn't need any customer-facing physical space, and can also consolidate larger numbers of orders into runs so the overall cost is cheaper. But, you don't get to talk with the designer handling your printing, and if you choose to order proofs you have to wait for them to be mailed to you instead of just running down to the local print shop. Ideally, it'd be good to have a good online printer AND local printer, so you can pick the one that best suits what you need (a high quality art print? 10,000 business cards? T-shirts?) for each job. I've had good luck with the few online printers I've used, unfortunately I don't have many useful recommendations for you since I live in Europe (I'm assuming here you live in the states).

In terms of online stores, there's a couple different varieties. Sites like Etsy or Dawanda (German etsy, basically) function only as a marketplace, where you keep physical stock of your items in your house/garage/shed and when someone pays for one, you go dig it out, package it up, and mail it to them. Other sites like Society6, Inprnt, and Redbubble will take a larger cut of each and every piece of art you sell, but the advantage is that they also print each order on demand and ship it so you don't have to keep any physical stock on hand yourself.

One other thing: Getting a single print made is likely going to be relatively costly, especially if the piece is larger than A4. Each individual print gets cheaper the the more you order at once - I had an A3 illustration I got printed a while back, and a single print was something like 30€. Getting 15 prints was 36€, 30 prints was 40€, and so on. So while you might not think that you're going to sell more than just this one print, in terms of cost per print I usually end up ordering at least 15 just because it's only a few bucks more. You can go from 30€/print to 0.40€/print pretty quickly.

Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012
Please give me free quality professional advice so I can be a baby about it and insult you

I have a job now that pays above a median income and as I save up money I am now trying to find information about what the price tag is on a 3D Artist to help me with my game development projects.

Where can I find information about this sort of thing? Should I just browse DeviantArt for people whose stuff I like and ask if they'd be willing to work with me on a game jam or project for $X per hour until I find someone who says yes?

What's a fair rate for this sort of thing? Or would I be better off paying for some kind of 3D Art personal trainer or whatever?

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

Is SquareSpace Business Plan a good start for selling prints and taking commissions, or should I start with their Basic Online Store format?

Or is there a better alternative?

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Fun Shoe

Zapf Dingbat posted:

I have a friend who really wants to get started in making a living out of auto and auto racing photography. Would you guys think that the same rules as sports photography apply? Can anyone point me in a general of a good place for him to start researching?

Check the auto photography thread over in AI. IIRC there's a couple pros in there who might be able to offer advice.

Zapf Dingbat
Jan 9, 2001




Thanks!

BetterLekNextTime
Jul 22, 2008

It's all a matter of perspective...


Grimey Drawer

I've been a super small time nature photographer coming up on the 1 year anniversary of my business. Most of what I sell are inkjet greeting cards that I sell mainly in-person at markets and festivals and on Etsy. This past weekend I was set up at a neighbor's house for an open studio event and someone came up saying she was a "broker" and that she worked with a some new-agey boutiques and gift stores to stock cards and such. I don't have all the details yet, but it sounds like she would shop around my cards and then take ~20% of the wholesale if any store places an order, and she would keep up with the re-orders.

It's been a goal of mine to get my stuff in some brick-and-mortars (although not necessarily hippy dippy shops), and I'm not terribly excited about doing the legwork myself. So I'm at least considering doing this. What I'm wondering is if there are any pitfalls or advice for a new artist starting a business relationship with an agent like this? Should I negotiate rates, or what kinds of other things should I make sure I'm including in a contract?

I think what I'd probably do is narrow it down to my best sellers and get a bunch press-printed. If anyone has a go-to guide for how to make UPC symbols, that might be handy at this juncture.

gmc9987
Jul 25, 2007


BetterLekNextTime posted:

I've been a super small time nature photographer coming up on the 1 year anniversary of my business. Most of what I sell are inkjet greeting cards that I sell mainly in-person at markets and festivals and on Etsy. This past weekend I was set up at a neighbor's house for an open studio event and someone came up saying she was a "broker" and that she worked with a some new-agey boutiques and gift stores to stock cards and such. I don't have all the details yet, but it sounds like she would shop around my cards and then take ~20% of the wholesale if any store places an order, and she would keep up with the re-orders.

It's been a goal of mine to get my stuff in some brick-and-mortars (although not necessarily hippy dippy shops), and I'm not terribly excited about doing the legwork myself. So I'm at least considering doing this. What I'm wondering is if there are any pitfalls or advice for a new artist starting a business relationship with an agent like this? Should I negotiate rates, or what kinds of other things should I make sure I'm including in a contract?

I think what I'd probably do is narrow it down to my best sellers and get a bunch press-printed. If anyone has a go-to guide for how to make UPC symbols, that might be handy at this juncture.

20% wholesale seems like a lot to me, but I haven't one any research into what's normal so I have no idea if it actually is or not.

Fortunately, the second question is much easier. There are a lot of free and pay options for making barcodes out there, from dedicated software to websites that spit out .svg files to place in Illustrator or InDesign. http://online-barcode-generator.net is one that I've used in the past that works fine. Just make sure that you're sizing the bar codes properly, and leaving enough white space around the edges for the scanner to properly read it.

BetterLekNextTime
Jul 22, 2008

It's all a matter of perspective...


Grimey Drawer

Thanks for the link!

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014


Does anyone have tips on finding freelance work as a 3d environment artist outside of the Polycount jobs board?

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002



BetterLekNextTime posted:

I've been a super small time nature photographer coming up on the 1 year anniversary of my business. Most of what I sell are inkjet greeting cards that I sell mainly in-person at markets and festivals and on Etsy. This past weekend I was set up at a neighbor's house for an open studio event and someone came up saying she was a "broker" and that she worked with a some new-agey boutiques and gift stores to stock cards and such. I don't have all the details yet, but it sounds like she would shop around my cards and then take ~20% of the wholesale if any store places an order, and she would keep up with the re-orders.

It's been a goal of mine to get my stuff in some brick-and-mortars (although not necessarily hippy dippy shops), and I'm not terribly excited about doing the legwork myself. So I'm at least considering doing this. What I'm wondering is if there are any pitfalls or advice for a new artist starting a business relationship with an agent like this? Should I negotiate rates, or what kinds of other things should I make sure I'm including in a contract?

I think what I'd probably do is narrow it down to my best sellers and get a bunch press-printed. If anyone has a go-to guide for how to make UPC symbols, that might be handy at this juncture.
I kind of wish I checked the forums more often since you're basically me a few years ago.

I have my prints in a number of stores now but I don't use a broker. I'm not sure I could be profitable if I did use one. At best you're going to be pricing your stuff at 50% off your retail prices (i.e. keystone pricing) although you'll find that a lot of stores want a lot better margins than that now. If a broker is taking an additional 20% off the wholesale that is a significant chunk of your profits.

The best option, if you can afford it, is to get into the wholesale shows and get your stuff out there to retailers yourself. It's crazy expensive to do a show, but if you get in the right one (for you this would be a gift show) it can be the best way to get your wholesale contracts rolling in. Those same retailers that the broker is offering to sell to are the ones that shop at these wholesale shows to get their product lines. I can probably write a book's worth of text on this at this point so let me know if you have specific questions.

In terms of UPC codes I wouldn't bother. Every store I have my stuff in uses their own and no one has ever asked for my prints to come with them.

Come And See
Sep 15, 2008

We're all awash in a sea of blood, and the least we can do is wave to each other.

I'm a writer who's looking to commission artwork of my characters. I've never done anything like this so I want to ask the right things without making an rear end of myself.

If I commission a character piece based only on a written description, who keeps the design? ie. Could I show this piece to a second artist and say "Keep this. Do something different here. Copy this belt buckle, it really fits the character."?

I plan on starting a website combining these commissions with writing samples. I don't have any commercial prospects yet, but if it really hits off I'll want to point to these paid works as the basis for future art.
What sort of wording should I use in the contract between myself and the artist? How would the wording differ if I wanted to compile the art and sell it in a book? Is this sort of request unusual/insulting, and how can I best be a good and honest buyer?

I realize most of this comes down to negotiation negotiation negotiation, but all the legalese regarding the different types of rights is daunting. Many thanks in advance thread.

BetterLekNextTime
Jul 22, 2008

It's all a matter of perspective...


Grimey Drawer

InternetJunky posted:

I kind of wish I checked the forums more often since you're basically me a few years ago.

I have my prints in a number of stores now but I don't use a broker. I'm not sure I could be profitable if I did use one. At best you're going to be pricing your stuff at 50% off your retail prices (i.e. keystone pricing) although you'll find that a lot of stores want a lot better margins than that now. If a broker is taking an additional 20% off the wholesale that is a significant chunk of your profits.

The best option, if you can afford it, is to get into the wholesale shows and get your stuff out there to retailers yourself. It's crazy expensive to do a show, but if you get in the right one (for you this would be a gift show) it can be the best way to get your wholesale contracts rolling in. Those same retailers that the broker is offering to sell to are the ones that shop at these wholesale shows to get their product lines. I can probably write a book's worth of text on this at this point so let me know if you have specific questions.

In terms of UPC codes I wouldn't bother. Every store I have my stuff in uses their own and no one has ever asked for my prints to come with them.

Thanks! Actually, turns out it's only 15%.

I don't know anything about the wholesale shows– definitely something to look into! Did you produce a glossy catalog or some other pro-looking price sheet of your images to give to vendors?

I think I'd definitely have to find a commercial printer if I try to scale up that much.

lofi
Apr 2, 2018






Come And See posted:

I'm a writer who's looking to commission artwork of my characters. I've never done anything like this so I want to ask the right things without making an rear end of myself.

If I commission a character piece based only on a written description, who keeps the design? ie. Could I show this piece to a second artist and say "Keep this. Do something different here. Copy this belt buckle, it really fits the character."?

I plan on starting a website combining these commissions with writing samples. I don't have any commercial prospects yet, but if it really hits off I'll want to point to these paid works as the basis for future art.
What sort of wording should I use in the contract between myself and the artist? How would the wording differ if I wanted to compile the art and sell it in a book? Is this sort of request unusual/insulting, and how can I best be a good and honest buyer?

I realize most of this comes down to negotiation negotiation negotiation, but all the legalese regarding the different types of rights is daunting. Many thanks in advance thread.

I'm not a legal expert, just an artist, but if you're up front about what you want then there shouldn't be any problem. A contract doesn't have to be written in formal legalese, think of it as a statement of what you and the artist expect from each other.

I imagine the idea of getting a second artist to redraw based on the first artists' picture will raise some hackles, so make sure to be clear if you intend to do that, or want to keep that option open.

Futaba Anzu
May 5, 2011

GROSS BOY



Come And See posted:

I'm a writer who's looking to commission artwork of my characters. I've never done anything like this so I want to ask the right things without making an rear end of myself.

If I commission a character piece based only on a written description, who keeps the design? ie. Could I show this piece to a second artist and say "Keep this. Do something different here. Copy this belt buckle, it really fits the character."?

I plan on starting a website combining these commissions with writing samples. I don't have any commercial prospects yet, but if it really hits off I'll want to point to these paid works as the basis for future art.
What sort of wording should I use in the contract between myself and the artist? How would the wording differ if I wanted to compile the art and sell it in a book? Is this sort of request unusual/insulting, and how can I best be a good and honest buyer?

I realize most of this comes down to negotiation negotiation negotiation, but all the legalese regarding the different types of rights is daunting. Many thanks in advance thread.

lofi posted:

I'm not a legal expert, just an artist, but if you're up front about what you want then there shouldn't be any problem. A contract doesn't have to be written in formal legalese, think of it as a statement of what you and the artist expect from each other.

I imagine the idea of getting a second artist to redraw based on the first artists' picture will raise some hackles, so make sure to be clear if you intend to do that, or want to keep that option open.

same position as above, I mingle with a lot of artists who focus on character commissions and while individual opinions on bits and pieces differ, usually most artists generally understand their initial work doesn't necessarily mean a full finalized design. There will obviously be divas who see it as an affront to their pride or whatever if you dare change something on 'their design' but that's on you if you choose to do business with them. I'm sure it's probably a bit different in a way more professional setting where you'd be asking for thousands of dollars commission, but it's pretty much commonplace for artists below that scope to understand a character they initially design won't necessarily be the final full design. Happened to a piece I did just a while ago where the commissioner saw fit to get another piece of said character I designed from another artist and tweaked a few details.

As far as some of the legalese I'd think of goes, just make sure you clearly state your goals with the artist and that it reflects in the invoice. The vast majority of artists' invoices I see usually don't state who owns the rights to the character, of which I'd say it could tldr be broken down to IP rights and rights to reproduction. As the original creator of the character itself, you'd want to clarify the IP rights of the character would belong to you to do so which you please. You can expect the artist to protect their right to reproduce the specific art piece they created of your character which would basically be standard practice just to clear them of being able to display and sell that specific piece as a print or whatever. The commissioner also obviously has the right to display the artwork as a showcase of their character, but reproducing as a marketable piece is something you'll want to discuss. I do know that some commissioners do wish to hold the rights to reproduce the piece entirely for themselves which is something that you can definitely discuss with the artist as well.

e: might just be the amateur artist speaking in me irt this but I guess another point to make would be most artists do also charge an additional charge for working off written descriptions alone since they tend to be more frustrating to work with (ie: more prone to missing out on the commissioner's vision and needing more frequent revisions)

Futaba Anzu fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Jul 2, 2019

divabot
Jun 17, 2015

Assisted Living Dracula of Wikipedia

DO NOT BELIEVE THIS MAN'S LIE!
Statist shill spreading FUD!

HODL!!


divabot posted:

double-post UPDATE: the editor wrote back. He swears I'm the only freelancer who's uttered a peep of objection! (I literally predicted he'd say something like this.) He's responded, now this evening I work on responding. And of course on the actual piece, which I can use myself if we can't come to an agreement.

His argument for the rights grab is that they pay really well. $1000 for 1000 words is glossy magazine rates, after all. This is in fact an argument, and will get a few concessions from me.



In entirely coincidental news, a publication called Breaker have their official launch soon. They have posted a press release listing me as one of their freelance writers! Apparently they were REALLY keen to work with me!

This is slightly premature, in that the contract hasn't been signed yet. But there's just a few minor details to work out, I'm sure it'll likely be a happener. Great guys to work with, the greatest! Looking forward to it!


the end of the above tale:

Breaker was a pretty cool publication to read, at least - "Four Days Trapped at Sea With Crypto’s Nouveau Riche" is the best thing ever written about Bitcoin - and they got shut down by their corporate patron a few months ago. I blogged about it here, and the subtext of that post is "hey, writers - see those guys' names? BEWARE." If you're gonna nuke your bridges ...

you should read the contract, it's great. I think it's that way because the parent company is TV/film people, and this is a contract to ruthlessly exploit a newbie who wants to be a star. They may have been disconcerted that I was in a position to say "yeah, no."

the correspondence where the writer's lawyer literally had to explain the concept of contractual assumption of good faith to Breaker was I assure you

lofi
Apr 2, 2018






Hey, I know the author of that bitcoin article! They were all 'uh, guys, I've signed up for this boat cruise, what is a bitcoin?' and got increasingly horrified as everyone explained.

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002



BetterLekNextTime posted:

Thanks! Actually, turns out it's only 15%.

I don't know anything about the wholesale shows– definitely something to look into! Did you produce a glossy catalog or some other pro-looking price sheet of your images to give to vendors?

I think I'd definitely have to find a commercial printer if I try to scale up that much.
There are some huge wholesale shows over the US (in Canada our choices are much more limited). Check out the facebook group "Artists who Wholesale"...lots of good info in there. Find a show near you, let them know you're considering exhibiting with them and ask to walk the show. You typically can't get into those shows unless you can show proof that you own a retail store. Seeing the other wholesalers, the products they are selling, and how they are selling them is very useful.

For wholesale you want to make a linesheet instead of a catalogue. I spent $500 making 250 fancy line sheets, spent another few hundred mailing them out to various retailers across the country, and got some interesting opportunities out of it. Check out this video series: https://www.creativelive.com/class/...ers-megan-auman It's worth the purchase if you're serious about getting into wholesale and even though it's from the perspective of a jewellery designer it was incredibly helpful to me.

gmc9987
Jul 25, 2007


Come And See posted:

I'm a writer who's looking to commission artwork of my characters. I've never done anything like this so I want to ask the right things without making an rear end of myself.

If I commission a character piece based only on a written description, who keeps the design? ie. Could I show this piece to a second artist and say "Keep this. Do something different here. Copy this belt buckle, it really fits the character."?

I plan on starting a website combining these commissions with writing samples. I don't have any commercial prospects yet, but if it really hits off I'll want to point to these paid works as the basis for future art.
What sort of wording should I use in the contract between myself and the artist? How would the wording differ if I wanted to compile the art and sell it in a book? Is this sort of request unusual/insulting, and how can I best be a good and honest buyer?

I realize most of this comes down to negotiation negotiation negotiation, but all the legalese regarding the different types of rights is daunting. Many thanks in advance thread.

You can o whatever you want, so long as the contract spells out usage rights that both you and the artist agree on. One thing you might want to keep in mind, though, is that it will generally be faster for the same artist to make those changes rather than bringing an entirely new artist up to see on the background of the character and then expecting them to match a similar style to your first artist.

Is there a particular reason that you're planning to have multiple artists design the same character?

Come And See
Sep 15, 2008

We're all awash in a sea of blood, and the least we can do is wave to each other.

lofi posted:

I'm not a legal expert, just an artist, but if you're up front about what you want then there shouldn't be any problem. A contract doesn't have to be written in formal legalese, think of it as a statement of what you and the artist expect from each other.

I imagine the idea of getting a second artist to redraw based on the first artists' picture will raise some hackles, so make sure to be clear if you intend to do that, or want to keep that option open.

Futaba Anzu posted:

same position as above, I mingle with a lot of artists who focus on character commissions and while individual opinions on bits and pieces differ, usually most artists generally understand their initial work doesn't necessarily mean a full finalized design. There will obviously be divas who see it as an affront to their pride or whatever if you dare change something on 'their design' but that's on you if you choose to do business with them. I'm sure it's probably a bit different in a way more professional setting where you'd be asking for thousands of dollars commission, but it's pretty much commonplace for artists below that scope to understand a character they initially design won't necessarily be the final full design. Happened to a piece I did just a while ago where the commissioner saw fit to get another piece of said character I designed from another artist and tweaked a few details.

As far as some of the legalese I'd think of goes, just make sure you clearly state your goals with the artist and that it reflects in the invoice. The vast majority of artists' invoices I see usually don't state who owns the rights to the character, of which I'd say it could tldr be broken down to IP rights and rights to reproduction. As the original creator of the character itself, you'd want to clarify the IP rights of the character would belong to you to do so which you please. You can expect the artist to protect their right to reproduce the specific art piece they created of your character which would basically be standard practice just to clear them of being able to display and sell that specific piece as a print or whatever. The commissioner also obviously has the right to display the artwork as a showcase of their character, but reproducing as a marketable piece is something you'll want to discuss. I do know that some commissioners do wish to hold the rights to reproduce the piece entirely for themselves which is something that you can definitely discuss with the artist as well.

e: might just be the amateur artist speaking in me irt this but I guess another point to make would be most artists do also charge an additional charge for working off written descriptions alone since they tend to be more frustrating to work with (ie: more prone to missing out on the commissioner's vision and needing more frequent revisions)

gmc9987 posted:

You can o whatever you want, so long as the contract spells out usage rights that both you and the artist agree on. One thing you might want to keep in mind, though, is that it will generally be faster for the same artist to make those changes rather than bringing an entirely new artist up to see on the background of the character and then expecting them to match a similar style to your first artist.

Is there a particular reason that you're planning to have multiple artists design the same character?

Thank you guys so much for taking the time to reply. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

My question comes from a place of fear and ignorance regarding creative rights/IP. I could imagine a scenario where a writer owns the base description, but an artist owns their interpretation - anywhere they have to use their imagination to fill in the blanks. So the more vague I am, the more they co-own the character. ie. I tell them a character wears a helmet of a general shape, but the artist designs how it would actually function and now I need their permission to use that helmet design in future art. Maybe that's ludicrous (or maybe it's not!), but I knew you guys would be the ones to ask. I just don't want to accidentally give away ownership if my characters.

As per your advice, I'll be as descriptive as possible and even sketch what I can, and be equally communicative during the business side of things.

My plan is to start with commissioning basic character portraits, exploring and working out the visual details before tackling larger more expensive portraits/scenes featuring these characters and those projects may or may not suit the original artist(s). I don't know. Finding an artist that I work great with and can form a long-time partnership with would be a dream come true, but I haven't even begun looking yet (my first stop will be here). Before beginning that search, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't about to legally paint myself into a corner.

---

If it helps explain my paranoia, a few years back an acquaintance of mine was raffling away free character portraits. He did about thirty and I was one of them. He claimed that the winners had full rights and were free to do with this art whatever they wanted, but later on in-person he informed me that he was planning on packaging all of the artwork he'd done and attempt selling it to a game company (an industry in which he had real deep connections). Not the characterizations (name, personalities, backstory, etc), just the visual designs. I told him he probably didn't have the rights to do that, but I honest-to-God couldn't say for sure. After all, graphically, he did most of the work bringing my character to life. That project of his fell by the wayside so I don't think he followed through with his plans, but I learned to be more careful about this sort of thing.

vvv Thank you gmc9987, I think this is exactly what I'll do. Thank you all for equipping me and giving me the confidence to move forward with this project. vvv

Come And See fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Aug 4, 2019

gmc9987
Jul 25, 2007


What your "friend" did regarding selling the portraits of other characters was kind of scummy, and is exactly the kind of situation that having a written contract in place beforehand helps to prevent. In terms of rights, you can negotiate whatever rights you want to in the contract - it can be as complex or as simple as you need and you can transfer all, some, or none of the rights.

Typically, the more rights you want to retain for yourself, the more you can expect to pay the artist up front. FWIW, when I do contracts the client normally only gets reproduction rights - that means that I retain the original copyright, but the client is free to use the artwork in whatever fashion they want to. I also typically include a clause for first revision rights - if the client wants to make changes to the artwork after it's finished, the contract says that they have to contact me first and give me the option of making the revisions, if I decline then they're free to find another artist to do it. Note that this doesn't include creating derivative artworks, just revisions to the already completed artwork.

I supplement or alter these rights based on the client and situation. It shouldn't be a problem to write up a contract that gives the artist reproduction rights while you retain the character and likeness rights (this allows the artist to use the image in their portfolio or promotional materials, while preventing them from making a direct profit from selling the image to a different entity).

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014


https://twitter.com/beavs/status/11...0325248?lang=en

not sure if this or something similar has been posted in the thread already, but this is a very useful tool

lofi
Apr 2, 2018






It's just giving me #name values in the download version. I think that means it wants me to work for exposure?

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014


lofi posted:

It's just giving me #name values in the download version. I think that means it wants me to work for exposure?

hmm, it looks fine for me? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...l_JPb5RVEs/edit

lofi
Apr 2, 2018






I think it's cos I was trying to save it and open it in Openoffice, and the language is a little different. I don't want google to know my business stuff!

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014


lofi posted:

I think it's cos I was trying to save it and open it in Openoffice, and the language is a little different. I don't want google to know my business stuff!

oh drat, it doesnt work when you export it? :/

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Jazz Marimba
Jan 4, 2012



Last year I got a large format printer for printing out 11x17 sheet music scores. A friend just asked me how much it would cost to print 300qty 7” record sleeves. He would be supplying the paper. I’m not sure how much to charge for that (or anything really), or where to look up standard rates or how to calculate them. Help?

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