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Oh My Science
Dec 29, 2008


Honestly man, they cut ties with you the minute they stiffed you on the bill. Do you really want to work with people like that? Do they really want to work with you? They are hoping you don't pursue it due to:

A) Lack of a backbone
B) Distance
C) The relatively small amount they owe you

If the contract does not cover lawyer fees I would still recommend you speak with one anyway. Show him the contract and see what they say.

You really need to watch gently caress You, Pay Me.

Edit: Make your own contract, charge more if they want to use their own. Also, make sure their contract doesn't gently caress you.

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kedo
Nov 27, 2007



Oh My Science posted:

Honestly man, they cut ties with you the minute they stiffed you on the bill. Do you really want to work with people like that? Do they really want to work with you? They are hoping you don't pursue it due to:

A) Lack of a backbone
B) Distance
C) The relatively small amount they owe you

If the contract does not cover lawyer fees I would still recommend you speak with one anyway. Show him the contract and see what they say.

You really need to watch gently caress You, Pay Me.

Edit: Make your own contract, charge more if they want to use their own. Also, make sure their contract doesn't gently caress you.

Exactly this. Despite however much fun they were to work with, you've encountered one of the worst types of bad clients. They know exactly how to pay you. If they wanted to, they would have paid you already. They're not forgetting, they're just choosing not to pay you.

Do not work with them again. You can try getting a lawyer to send a letter to scare them, but since they're in another country you're kind of screwed because it'll take way more than $900 to force them to pay. If they were a US client you could take them to small claims court, but that still might be more trouble than it's worth.

If they're actually nice people (doubtful), send them a professional sounding sob story email telling them know you need the money and let them know that failing to pay means you won't be able to work with them in the future. If that doesn't work, try a semi-threatening letter sent by a lawyer. If that doesn't work, you just learned a valuable lesson for $900.


e: Always get a deposit. If you've never worked with someone before, ask for 50% up front. Require payment before delivery. Put these things in your contract. If people balk, it's because they're jerks who either don't want to pay or want to delay payment.

kedo fucked around with this message at Oct 25, 2013 around 14:03

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"



Grimey Drawer

SVU Fan, I also recommend that you call them. Even if you have to sit up until 3am, get a real person on the phone, because it is much easier to ignore emails.

Ask for specific details. Who is in charge of sending the payment? What is their phone number/email? Who is their supervisor? Emphasize how overdue it is, that you need to be paid right away, and how you have a contract that stipulates x. Repeat your payment details to everyone. Say that you will keep calling to make sure it is done.

The goal is to make it unpleasant for the individual whose job it is to continue to not pay you. Assuming this isn't some fly-by-night outfit, there is a significant chance this is an exercise in abject bureaucracy instead of outright sleaziness.

Oh My Science
Dec 29, 2008


No heart wrenching letters dudes, bad form. Calling the saps isn't a bad idea.

Edit: I was in the doctors office so I wasn't as clear as I should have been. Don't appeal to their emotions, if you do, you've already lost. Since it has been several months I assume you already have, pending review with a lawyer, I don't think you're going to get paid.

Oh My Science fucked around with this message at Oct 25, 2013 around 20:37

kedo
Nov 27, 2007



Well not heart wrenching like "I'm going hungry because you're not paying me." Letting someone know that what they're doing is hurting your business financially is really what I meant. This actually works, depending on who you're talking to. I've used it on a couple of projects where I knew the client was just delaying payment for no good reason and I had a straight line of communication to the check writer. Still work with one of 'em too.

Really depends on the client, though. If someone was a big jerk I wouldn't even try. But if they seemed like nice people it sometimes can. And if not, there's always the legal route.


e: Much later, watched that video - haha, holy crap he talks about heart wrenching letters and makes excellent points.

kedo fucked around with this message at Nov 5, 2013 around 00:45

SVU Fan
Mar 5, 2008

I'm gay for Christopher Meloni


Thanks for the replies so far guys, super helpful. I ended up writing a slightly mean, albeit true email giving a timeline of our emails, and I think it really put into perspective how long payments been delayed. I also put a "I'm going to need the payment in the next 24 business hours, or I'll have to take this further" spiel at the end.

To my surprise, he emailed me back within less than 20 minutes of me sending that email. I don't like having to be pushy,but apparently it works. His reply said something to the effect of "I totally understand and am sorry. We don't really use PayPal here, so I had to get it up and running. The wire transfers not going through were more your fault than mine, but I understand your impatience and will hopefully have this resolved for you tomorrow."

He sent me another email this morning saying that he is waiting for a confirmation code for PayPal from his bank, and would email me when he got it.

I'm going to said him a generic "thanks, looking forward to it email" first thing in the morning so he knows I'm still waiting for it.

pipes!
Jul 10, 2001


Nap Ghost

SVU Fan posted:

I'm going to said him a generic "thanks, looking forward to it email" first thing in the morning so he knows I'm still waiting for it.

Hope your payment goes through without further issue. Does your contract have a fee for late payment/reissued invoice? Mine stipulates a 45, 60, 75 and 90 day flat penalty, after which a monthly service fee kicks in. I've fortunately never had to get to the point where I had to bill for the service fee, but have definitely gotten to the 60 day mark before.

If I like the client I usually good cop/bad cop them in the same email, along the lines of, "I understand that yadda yadda yadda, but just a reminder that the contract does state this…"

Like others have mentioned, terms of payment is also another thing that can be defined in a good contract beforehand. In short:


Oh My Science posted:

Edit: Make your own contract, charge more if they want to use their own. Also, make sure their contract doesn't gently caress you.

and

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"



Grimey Drawer

SVU Fan posted:

Thanks for the replies so far guys, super helpful. I ended up writing a slightly mean, albeit true email giving a timeline of our emails, and I think it really put into perspective how long payments been delayed. I also put a "I'm going to need the payment in the next 24 business hours, or I'll have to take this further" spiel at the end.

To my surprise, he emailed me back within less than 20 minutes of me sending that email. I don't like having to be pushy,but apparently it works. His reply said something to the effect of "I totally understand and am sorry. We don't really use PayPal here, so I had to get it up and running. The wire transfers not going through were more your fault than mine, but I understand your impatience and will hopefully have this resolved for you tomorrow."

He sent me another email this morning saying that he is waiting for a confirmation code for PayPal from his bank, and would email me when he got it.

I'm going to said him a generic "thanks, looking forward to it email" first thing in the morning so he knows I'm still waiting for it.
I'm glad this seems to be working out for you, I've been the guy on the other end of this, a contractor's contact at a giant company where all he wants is to get paid, all I want is to pay him, but loving accounting is half completely incompetent, half in Bangalore, 100% opaque, and we "couldn't process wire transfers" for nearly 9 months.

Remember the words of Eugene McCarthy: "The only thing that saves us from the bureaucracy is its inefficiency"

kedo
Nov 27, 2007



If you plan on freelancing much in the future you should also definitely start using an invoicing tool like FreshBooks or Harvest. Both are great for accurate time tracking (helps you estimate future projects) but they will also send monthly reminders about outstanding invoices to clients and such if you want them to. Might be helpful for this type of forgetful client, assuming he's not just stalling again.

SVU Fan
Mar 5, 2008

I'm gay for Christopher Meloni


Yeah, I definitely need to draft up my own contract rather than rely on the clients contract.

So as of right now, I got a reply saying I should get the payment by Saturday, after the PayPal processed with their bank. I still haven't gotten it unfortunately, so I am going to send one final email here. If that doesn't work, I guess I'll just have to deal with.

Ive gotten half up front for every project I've done since then, as I started freelancing more and learning. Stuff like this makes freelancing a huge bummer sometimes though.

What is it about our legal system that makes it so difficult for contracts to be enforced? It's weird to me that there is no easy way for me to go "it clearly states in our signed contact that this amount is to be paid out upon completion. They broke that" and then somebody does something about it.

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"



Grimey Drawer

SVU Fan posted:

So as of right now, I got a reply saying I should get the payment by Saturday, after the PayPal processed with their bank. I still haven't gotten it unfortunately, so I am going to send one final email here.

caaaaaallllllll them.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007



SVU Fan posted:

What is it about our legal system that makes it so difficult for contracts to be enforced? It's weird to me that there is no easy way for me to go "it clearly states in our signed contact that this amount is to be paid out upon completion. They broke that" and then somebody does something about it.

Nothing, contracts are easy to enforce. It just costs money and time to do so because the only way to force someone to honor a contract is through the courts. Since you're freelancing your money and time are both extremely valuable and using them to take some jerk client to court may be a waste.

Small claims court is pretty fantastic because you can (usually) take someone there relatively easily and without a huge time investment, but it still requires time and money. If you have a good contract you'll likely get your money and maybe even lawyer's fees back, but still. Even if your client were in the US I'm not sure $900 would be worth it.

If you want to be a real jerk, send people to collections. You'll generally get half (or less) of what you were owed, but you'll at least get some and it sends a hell of a message. (Note: don't send people to collections unless they're real big jerks who you want to burn all bridges with.)

kedo fucked around with this message at Oct 28, 2013 around 14:58

Inverse Icarus
Dec 4, 2003

I run SyncRPG, and produce original, digital content for the Pathfinder RPG, designed from the ground up to be played online.


Defenestration posted:

caaaaaallllllll them.

You know how much you don't want to call them?

They want you to not call them even more.

Call them.

pipes!
Jul 10, 2001


Nap Ghost

Defenestration posted:

1. HAVE A CONTRACT


Oh My Science
Dec 29, 2008


I don't know how PayPal works in the EU but I assume punching in your credit card details takes about 3 minutes.

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"



Grimey Drawer

Inverse Icarus posted:

You know how much you don't want to call them?

They want you to not call them even more.

Call them.

Truth bombs.

Think of your Jewish grandmother. What would she do? (demand satisfaction)

(This works for me.)

SVU Fan
Mar 5, 2008

I'm gay for Christopher Meloni


Wellllll, there is a happy ending. I woke up this morning to an email from PayPal saying I got the payment in full. The slightly forward "going to need the full amount or else" email definitely worked, so there's that.

I've been using Invoice Machine for really quick invoices, but I liked the one that was recommended here that sends "you're overdue by so and so days" emails. Either way, I'm a happy camper. Thanks guys!

Chitin
Apr 29, 2007

It is no sign of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

kedo posted:

If you plan on freelancing much in the future you should also definitely start using an invoicing tool like FreshBooks or Harvest.

Thanks for this.

Chitin
Apr 29, 2007

It is no sign of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

Etiquette question, freelancers:

I was asked to do a simple but time-sensitive freelance job by a former employer of mine. I asked for and received my normal day rate; however, when the time came to upload, my Internet went down hard.

I ended up shipping a flash drive overnight, which put the files in the clients hands a day late. They don't seem especially upset, and the project still went public on time.

I really like working with these people, and wish to continue doing so.

My question is this:
Would it be a good idea to knock some of my fee off due to the late delivery? The client has not requested this, and I'm obviously picking up the tab for the drive and the shipping. Would this be seen as a nice gesture, or would it be weird in some way? What sort of discount would be appropriate?

Oh My Science
Dec 29, 2008


I guess it depends on how nice you are?

If the project launched on time and the client isn't upset / asking for a discount why bother? You already took a hit buying the flash drive and shipping it over night... why take another if you don't have to. If anything you showed the client how well you respond to an unfortunate situation.

Rogetz
Jan 11, 2003
Alcohol and Nicotine every morning

Image Rights question:

I was approached by a yoga teacher about taking photos of her for use in marketing materials: print fliers for classes and eventually a website. What are best practices concerning the use of these photos outside of those specified purposes? I'm going to retain rights for self-promotion purposes, I'm wondering what reproduction rights I should sign over to her since the product is her image. I'm assuming she should have the right to use the photos for marketing and promotional purposes, but not alter or sell them without my permission.

I'm brand new to the contract and image rights game when it comes to freelancing, and I'm pulling what I've learned from the GAG's Pricing and Ethical Guidelines.
Any help or resources navigating these murky legal waters to retain proper rights without alienating the client would be greatly appreciated!

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"



Grimey Drawer

Rogetz posted:

Image Rights question:

I was approached by a yoga teacher about taking photos of her for use in marketing materials: print fliers for classes and eventually a website. What are best practices concerning the use of these photos outside of those specified purposes? I'm going to retain rights for self-promotion purposes, I'm wondering what reproduction rights I should sign over to her since the product is her image. I'm assuming she should have the right to use the photos for marketing and promotional purposes, but not alter or sell them without my permission.

I'm brand new to the contract and image rights game when it comes to freelancing, and I'm pulling what I've learned from the GAG's Pricing and Ethical Guidelines.
Any help or resources navigating these murky legal waters to retain proper rights without alienating the client would be greatly appreciated!

You're right, you grant her marketing and promotional use and keep the rest. If you want to be specific about it you can forbid sub licensing or license transfer.

Don't give her the un watermarked ones until she pays.

SuBeCo
Jun 19, 2005
Amazing... Simply amazing...

I haven't seen this talked about here, but it's a good example of why Always Get A Contract (and later communications in writing) needs to be burned into everyone's brains.

http://www.firstshowing.net/2013/in...oy-art-rip-off/

quote:

independent designer Juan Luis Garcia who claims that he did work and pitched Oldboy poster concepts to a design agency, who then took his ideas and created similar work without paying or recognizing his contributions at all. Garcia then tweeted to Oldboy director Spike Lee to gain some extra attention, and the response from the filmmaker was even more disgusting than the rip-off.

In his original open letter to Spike Lee (which has since been removed from his website), Garcia explains "in January I was approached by an ad agency that was hired to design posters for your new film, Oldboy." After working exclusively for two months and submitting a few of his concepts, he was told that "Spike loved a couple of the posters. Yours is going to be the key art." The deal they offered to license his work was very low and he declined, attempting to negotiate but was treated very poorly by the agency, eventually moving on without anything. "The worst part of all this is that I never even got paid the peanuts they owed me," he said. Months later and the real Oldboy posters arrive and guess what - they're very obviously similar to his.

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"



Grimey Drawer

Looking for information about licensing out video clips to production companies. Post or PM me if you have info about rates

Thanks!

Chitin
Apr 29, 2007

It is no sign of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

Defenestration posted:

Looking for information about licensing out video clips to production companies. Post or PM me if you have info about rates

Thanks!

Directly, or are you talking about selling stock via a service?

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"



Grimey Drawer

Chitin posted:

Directly, or are you talking about selling stock via a service?

Directly. Someone asked for my advice, and I only buy videos occasionally.

The Joe Man
Apr 7, 2007

Flirting With Apathetic Waitresses Since 1984

Can I sue someone/a company located in Spain? They're trying to change my agreed upon pay of 2% of all sales to a one-time fixed payment and it's a complete shaft. They had a successful Kickstarter and gotten Greenlit so they're getting greedy.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007



The Joe Man posted:

Can I sue someone/a company located in Spain? They're trying to change my agreed upon pay of 2% of all sales to a one-time fixed payment and it's a complete shaft. They had a successful Kickstarter and gotten Greenlit so they're getting greedy.

Yes, but you'll have to go through the Spanish legal system most likely. I'd imagine that's going to be a bit of a clusterfuck. Hopefully you have stuff in writing (do you have a contract?) or else you might be screwed.

The legal thread in A/T is probably a good place to ask this question as well.

SaviourX
Sep 29, 2003

The only true Catwoman is Julie Newmar, Lee Meriwether, or Eartha Kitt.



The Joe Man posted:

Can I sue someone/a company located in Spain? They're trying to change my agreed upon pay of 2% of all sales to a one-time fixed payment and it's a complete shaft. They had a successful Kickstarter and gotten Greenlit so they're getting greedy.


Can't help, but man I hope it's not PL, because that looked pretty cool.

The Joe Man
Apr 7, 2007

Flirting With Apathetic Waitresses Since 1984

SaviourX posted:

Can't help, but man I hope it's not PL, because that looked pretty cool.

Nope. Anyways they simply wouldn't budge/honor their agreement so I'll be working out a flat payment with them sometime in the near future.

Unfortunately for them (at least in the short term), my flat rates for a project this size aren't very cheap.

EDIT: Really wish I had a decent template to start drafting up a baseline contract I can send out for freelance. I do audio/voice work so I guess the closest would be writing/$-by-word? Anyone have a good resource or would be willing to share theirs that I can heavily alter for my purposes? I'll obviously need to write the technical differences myself but a lot of the standard conditions described in "gently caress you, pay me" would be wonderful to have already outlined and on-hand.

The Joe Man fucked around with this message at Jan 4, 2014 around 12:07

Yip Yips
Sep 25, 2007
yip-yip-yip-yip-yip

Sounds like you're screwing yourself out of money.

The Joe Man
Apr 7, 2007

Flirting With Apathetic Waitresses Since 1984

Yip Yips posted:

Sounds like you're screwing yourself out of money.

Either I get paid a decent lump for my work, be done with it and have something nice on my resume forever or I have nothing at all. I understand their viewpoint somewhat (the "hassle" of having to pay me a monthly percentage forever) but I agree that they shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place if they were unwilling to do that. My five hours of late-night arguing with them went nowhere.

I'll get mine, just in a different form. It might even work out better if the project (surprisingly) flops. I'll be paid and done. Next time I'll have a contract!

Yip Yips posted:

Cutting one more check a month (or every 3 months) seems like a non-issue and that they just want to pay you less.
I agree completely, which is why I was so pissed.

The Joe Man fucked around with this message at Jan 5, 2014 around 03:44

Yip Yips
Sep 25, 2007
yip-yip-yip-yip-yip

Cutting one more check a month (or every 3 months) seems like a non-issue and that they just want to pay you less.

Hope it works out well for you though.

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"



Grimey Drawer

You can google "voice over sample contract" if you want some basic templates.

Please do make them pay 5-10x your regular rate as a dickhead tax.

Psych
Feb 13, 2005

The Infernal

I got this e-mail out of the blue today and I'm hoping you guys can tell me the sort of stuff I need to know before going forward.

some guy posted:

Hi,
I'm an indie developer on a two man team that is looking into creating an electronic fantasy-themed collectable card game. I saw some of your work on <a previous project I worked on> and I thought that you would be great as an artist for the project. The project is still very much in development but I am trying to get an estimate of how much it would cost to produce this game, which includes hiring an artist to do what will amount to about 100 different cards of about the same size as the art in the <previous project mentioned before>. If there's anyway you could give me a price estimate for that kind of work I would be very grateful.

I look forward to hearing from you,
<some guy>

I've before in the past but that was for friends on projects far far smaller than this. I've gathered from the thread thus far that I should write up a contract and make sure I get an advance. What else should I consider while formulating my reply?

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"



Grimey Drawer

Psych posted:

I got this e-mail out of the blue today and I'm hoping you guys can tell me the sort of stuff I need to know before going forward.


I've before in the past but that was for friends on projects far far smaller than this. I've gathered from the thread thus far that I should write up a contract and make sure I get an advance. What else should I consider while formulating my reply?

A very specific accounting of the scope of the project. A timeline for completion, including a set number of revisions (and more than that costs them extra). A cancellation fee clause. A phone number.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007



Psych posted:

I got this e-mail out of the blue today and I'm hoping you guys can tell me the sort of stuff I need to know before going forward.


I've before in the past but that was for friends on projects far far smaller than this. I've gathered from the thread thus far that I should write up a contract and make sure I get an advance. What else should I consider while formulating my reply?

Your first move should be to have a call with the dude. Have a super rough price in mind beforehand. Assuming you have rudimentary social and communication skills, a call can help get the person more excited about your work, will give you more information on the project and most importantly will soften the blow a little bit when you quote a figure.

Don't worry about drawing up a contract just yet. An "indie developer on a two man team that is looking into creating an electronic fantasy-themed collectable card game" = "a few guys with no money who are trying to price stuff." "The project is still very much in development" = "we haven't started on it yet, we're still figuring poo poo out." So don't get ahead of yourself and put in time making a contract when you don't yet need one.

Give him a rough quote so you can help him make a decision, but make sure he understands that it is a rough quote and that if he's interested you will send him a proposal/contract with a detailed scope of work and a final price tag. You should specifically ask, "Would you like me to write up a proposal/contract for you?" if it sounds like he's interested. Don't waste your time if you don't need to.

If you do end up working with the guy, definitely get a pretty good chunk as an advance. Do not accept a percent of profits unless you want to go out of pocket, because most indie games never go anywhere.


Source: dealing with lots of people with "very much in development" projects in the past and knowing that a good half of them never go anywhere.

Psych
Feb 13, 2005

The Infernal

Thanks for the help.

Considering the 'in development' description of the project I always thought it'd be a long shot that I'd hear anything back if I responded to this, and so far I haven't. But it's good I got my bases covered.

le capitan
Dec 29, 2006
When the boat goes down, I'll be driving

I'm making a small personal drawing for a guy as a gift for his wife. I talked with him in person once about the project and I was wondering if I should even bother with making a contract for such a small job? I don't know him that well, but he seems very straight forward and honest so I'm not really worried about getting ripped off. I'm getting half of the payment to start and half upon completion and feel like that's safe enough. Thoughts?

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kedo
Nov 27, 2007



le capitan posted:

I don't know him that well, but he seems very straight forward and honest so I'm not really worried about getting ripped off.

Famous last words!

If it's not a huge amount you're probably fine, just make sure you have cash in hand before you turn over the drawing. If he gives you a check it might bounce or he could cancel it. As long as you've got your money the contract doesn't matter quite as much for super small projects.

But you're still putting yourself in a bit of a vulnerable position.

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