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le capitan
Dec 29, 2006
When the boat goes down, I'll be driving

kedo posted:

Famous last words!

If it's not a huge amount you're probably fine, just make sure you have cash in hand before you turn over the drawing. If he gives you a check it might bounce or he could cancel it. As long as you've got your money the contract doesn't matter quite as much for super small projects.

But you're still putting yourself in a bit of a vulnerable position.

Yeah i'll definitely get cash first before handing over the piece and definitely not taking a check. Thanks

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SaviourX
Sep 29, 2003

The only true Catwoman is Julie Newmar, Lee Meriwether, or Eartha Kitt.



Oh man, some of you may be aware of this, and I know it's tumblr, but wow scroll down to the job listings:

http://iwantaclone.tumblr.com/

Software dev, but jesus.

the
Jul 18, 2004

by Cowcaster


Is Etsy the best place to sell prints of my paintings? Also, how much should I expect to pay a photographer to take photos that I can use for print production?

AnnoyBot
May 28, 2001


I have an outfit that makes cable animal documentaries wanting to license a video I posted to Youtube. They have sent me a contract specifying "non-exclusive right in perpetuity to broadcast all or part of the material in connection with the production, exploitation, promotion and/or advertising of the program throughout the world for the entire period of copyright in the material and all extensions and renewals thereof by all means and in all media". They are offering $100 if they use it, $1 if they take it and don't use it. Footage is from a Flip HD.

A photographer friend recommended I give them "non-exclusive one time rights". $100 seems cheap for what they are asking for, rights-wise. I looked up some nature stock footage and $700 was what about what it cost to get a minute or so for a commercial program.

Right now they're saying $100 is their budget limit, but this is an outfit that makes shows that are very well known and the channel is owned by one of the big boys. So my heart doesn't exactly bleed for them, financially.

Any advice? The sums here don't seem to merit getting a real lawyer involved, so I'm a bit stumped as to the next step.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

AnnoyBot posted:

I have an outfit that makes cable animal documentaries wanting to license a video I posted to Youtube. They have sent me a contract specifying "non-exclusive right in perpetuity to broadcast all or part of the material in connection with the production, exploitation, promotion and/or advertising of the program throughout the world for the entire period of copyright in the material and all extensions and renewals thereof by all means and in all media". They are offering $100 if they use it, $1 if they take it and don't use it. Footage is from a Flip HD.

A photographer friend recommended I give them "non-exclusive one time rights". $100 seems cheap for what they are asking for, rights-wise. I looked up some nature stock footage and $700 was what about what it cost to get a minute or so for a commercial program.

Right now they're saying $100 is their budget limit, but this is an outfit that makes shows that are very well known and the channel is owned by one of the big boys. So my heart doesn't exactly bleed for them, financially.

Any advice? The sums here don't seem to merit getting a real lawyer involved, so I'm a bit stumped as to the next step.

What a professor once told me is that signing away your rights to something should cost 3-4 times (if not more) than licensing it for a single use, and a commission-but-don't-use should be around half. They're not asking to take all rights for the video, but asking for unlimited use for eternity seems pretty close. I don't know any numbers on market rates, but $100 definitely is bullshit (even for a single-use license), and that $1 is few orders of magnitude above ridiculous.

Edit: This was for illustrations, so YMMV for other fields

kedo
Nov 27, 2007



dupersaurus posted:

What a professor once told me is that signing away your rights to something should cost 3-4 times (if not more) than licensing it for a single use, and a commission-but-don't-use should be around half. They're not asking to take all rights for the video, but asking for unlimited use for eternity seems pretty close. I don't know any numbers on market rates, but $100 definitely is bullshit (even for a single-use license), and that $1 is few orders of magnitude above ridiculous.

Edit: This was for illustrations, so YMMV for other fields

This sounds right to me as well, though of course I'm also not in a video field. Unless your footage is of much, much poorer quality than one might find on a stock site, they're likely just lowballing you because they think you won't know any better. They're probably going to add your video to their vast collection of stock footage and even if they don't use it on whatever their current project is, they may use it in the future (thus the $1 is indeed ridiculous).

If this were me, I would try to be unbiased and would compare it to high quality stock footage. Then I'd come back to them with a counter proposal at a more realistic price. Either that or get someone else who can be unbiased to do the comparison for you.

Also if it's good enough that these people want to license it from you, it might be worth trying to get it up on a stock site yourself. That way you could potentially benefit from the "non-exclusive" portion of the contract.

blinkeve1826
Jul 26, 2005

WELCOME TO THE NEW DEATH


Please change the "in perpetuity" clause to specify a period of use (after which you will indeed enforce that they are no longer using it and request several hundred more dollars from them. Otherwise, do not agree to this. As kedo said, they are most likely offering you this because they think you'll agree to it because you don't know any better. It is a ridiculous lowball offer that you will probably regret and not worth the pathetic pocket change they're offering. Sorry if this sounds a bit bitter, but it's in the interest of others learning from my mistakes; I've been burned by this in my own work (on-camera acting and voiceover work) and make a big point out of stressing the importance of both terms of usage AND terms of compensation in contracts, and specifically to avoid in perpetuity anything, to my students in my VO classes. In perpetuity means forever. FOREVER. Is $100 worth permanently giving part of your life experience to anyone? If you're particularly interested in making money off of this video, look into ad revenue or, as kedo mentioned, getting it on a stock footage site yourself, where you'll have better compensation AND specificity/protection of your rights.

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"



Grimey Drawer

AnnoyBot posted:

I have an outfit that makes cable animal documentaries wanting to license a video I posted to Youtube. They have sent me a contract specifying "non-exclusive right in perpetuity to broadcast all or part of the material in connection with the production, exploitation, promotion and/or advertising of the program throughout the world for the entire period of copyright in the material and all extensions and renewals thereof by all means and in all media". They are offering $100 if they use it, $1 if they take it and don't use it. Footage is from a Flip HD.

A photographer friend recommended I give them "non-exclusive one time rights". $100 seems cheap for what they are asking for, rights-wise. I looked up some nature stock footage and $700 was what about what it cost to get a minute or so for a commercial program.

Right now they're saying $100 is their budget limit, but this is an outfit that makes shows that are very well known and the channel is owned by one of the big boys. So my heart doesn't exactly bleed for them, financially.

Any advice? The sums here don't seem to merit getting a real lawyer involved, so I'm a bit stumped as to the next step.
Christ there are so many things wrong with this offer.

First off, if you give them the footage files they pay the full fee. End of story. If they decide not to use it, they can decide not to license from you.

It does sound like it's for a specific program they are producing, which is good, and the license should be limited to that program and the advertising/promotion thereof. Don't let them put your footage in a vault for unlimited company use. Don't let them sublicense (obviously) or merchandise with it.

Put a 5 or 10 year term on it, that should more than cover whatever dipshit documentary they're making without being a hassle to renew.

All mediums is a lot to ask, and yet another reason they should pay you more. World territory is not unreasonable but again, they should pay more.

How long is this video? 1 minute? If I'm spitballing, I say quote them $500, settle for $300 (with the changes mentioned above). More if it's longer.

You can charge them per second if you want. This makes it seem like a deal if they're only using a few seconds of the whole video. Of course they have to specify how many seconds they want.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007



I wonder, do companies like this just have interns scouring youtube looking for poor saps who'll jump at the chance to get $100 and their video on TV? I really wouldn't be surprised at all if this were the case...

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

Make way for the Urinal Parade.

A friend of mine got $15,000 from a company in South America for a non-exclusive license to use in a commercial a video she posted on Youtube of her daughter freaking out about a surprise gift, so I'd say you're getting the radical screw job. I mean, maybe $15k is much too much for your nature clip (compared to personal footage of someone's child), but $100 seems laughably low.

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"



Grimey Drawer

mutata posted:

A friend of mine got $15,000 from a company in South America for a non-exclusive license to use in a commercial a video she posted on Youtube of her daughter freaking out about a surprise gift, so I'd say you're getting the radical screw job. I mean, maybe $15k is much too much for your nature clip (compared to personal footage of someone's child), but $100 seems laughably low.
ok that is a lot, even if the company in question was Coca Cola and could afford it

AnnoyBot
May 28, 2001


Thank you all for this input, it's super helpful.

It's about a minute of Flip HD video shot at night in my driveway, lit only by my kitchen lights. It's grainy nature footage I lucked into, not anything I did creatively. The $500 offer/take $300 scenario would be fine with me.

Do they scour youtube? Absolutely. The archivist contacted me on twitter, and there were several other folks in his feed with similar videos and requests.

Juanito
Jan 20, 2004

I wasn't paying attention
to what you just said.

Can you repeat yourself
in a more interesting way?


Hell Gem

Last year, my sister was outside, recording my nephew, who was barely able to walk, outside. Their giant dog got excited about something or somebody, and basically ran through him, sending my nephew sprawling.

It got some views on Youtube, but barely. I think there were less than 2,000 views, and she was contacted by THREE different unrelated companies about non-exclusive rights to use her clip. One of the companies does like a daily or weekly fail compilation. I think she was offered like $150, $150, $100, but decided not to mess with it. I think the companies were trying to anticipate in case the clip went viral, which it didn't.

But we have no idea how they found out about it.

RGBRIOT
Apr 19, 2009

"Beauty, packaged for a digital world."


After some very distasteful events, I decided to rework my current contract agreement for use when dealing with non-spec work. I've been reading quite a bit from AIGA and GAG templates and wondered if any other designers/creatives might be willing to help me tighten up my agreement via either review, sharing of their own contract, or offering additional resources to check out for consideration. Naturally I'd love to get a lawyer to look over it, but at this particular time that's not a feasible option. So if any of you awesome jaded assholes could help me I would be very appreciative. If you're down to help, I would prefer to correspond via email or PM.

Thanks!

Rogetz
Jan 11, 2003
Alcohol and Nicotine every morning

I've got a dilemma related to working for free. I was contacted by a friend of a former client (who is also a friend of mine) about doing poster/postcard design for a yoga event and music festival happening in September. Unfortunately it sounds like they want me to work for "trade" (putting my logo on all their event materials, maybe some swag). I know this sucks and is a total chump move, but it actually would be a great portfolio piece, and exposure within a target demographic I'm marketing to. If I can't talk them in to even a small paycheck, is there a reasonable thing I can ask for in trade?

The event is far enough away that I can most likely get the work done in my spare time and not suffer an opportunity cost, but if that's not the case and I can't get reasonable compensation, what's the most professional way I can decline while keeping them as a potential client and my friend still willing to give me referrals?

kedo
Nov 27, 2007



RGBRIOT posted:

After some very distasteful events, I decided to rework my current contract agreement for use when dealing with non-spec work. I've been reading quite a bit from AIGA and GAG templates and wondered if any other designers/creatives might be willing to help me tighten up my agreement via either review, sharing of their own contract, or offering additional resources to check out for consideration. Naturally I'd love to get a lawyer to look over it, but at this particular time that's not a feasible option. So if any of you awesome jaded assholes could help me I would be very appreciative. If you're down to help, I would prefer to correspond via email or PM.

Thanks!

Shoot me your contract and I'll take a look at it. PM me and I'll give you my email address. IANAL or anything but I've dealt with a ton of difficult clients and could probably point out spots here and there where you could tighten it up.

Also include some examples of how you propose a scope of work in addition to the actual terms.

e: Don't do spec work.

Rogetz posted:

I've got a dilemma related to working for free. I was contacted by a friend of a former client (who is also a friend of mine) about doing poster/postcard design for a yoga event and music festival happening in September. Unfortunately it sounds like they want me to work for "trade" (putting my logo on all their event materials, maybe some swag). I know this sucks and is a total chump move, but it actually would be a great portfolio piece, and exposure within a target demographic I'm marketing to. If I can't talk them in to even a small paycheck, is there a reasonable thing I can ask for in trade?

The event is far enough away that I can most likely get the work done in my spare time and not suffer an opportunity cost, but if that's not the case and I can't get reasonable compensation, what's the most professional way I can decline while keeping them as a potential client and my friend still willing to give me referrals?

Generally my studio's theory about trade is that we only do it if A) we have nothing better to do or B) there is both an immediate and obvious benefit to us as well as a potential long term benefit. Awareness building from having your logo on their materials is a potential long term benefit. For short term, we usually look for events that we could use for networking which allows us to scare up more business with a great pitch ("Oh yeah we did all the design for this thing... ").

If these events are something you're interested in, ask for free entry to both. If you don't care about them, just send them an email saying something along the lines of, "Sorry, but I can't accept any work for trade at the moment for [whatever legitimate reason you have], however I would be extremely interested in working with you in the future when you have a budget." Also tell your friend you don't work for free, if you can be more blunt with him/her. You don't need to do anything special or beat around the bush when turning down non-paying projects. It's not like the person putting on the event would offer a sincere heartfelt apology for refusing a random person a free ticket.

Oh My Science
Dec 29, 2008


IF you do work for trade or free please bill them with your normal rate and apply w/e discounts you need to reach their desired price. It puts a dollar value on your time and helps avoid the "But you did it for free last time" conversation. It should be very clear that this is not a normal occurrence.

Your normal rate should be high. They should be very grateful you're doing this for free / cheap.

RGBRIOT
Apr 19, 2009

"Beauty, packaged for a digital world."


kedo posted:

Shoot me your contract and I'll take a look at it. PM me and I'll give you my email address. IANAL or anything but I've dealt with a ton of difficult clients and could probably point out spots here and there where you could tighten it up.

Also include some examples of how you propose a scope of work in addition to the actual terms.

e: Don't do spec work.


Generally my studio's theory about trade is that we only do it if A) we have nothing better to do or B) there is both an immediate and obvious benefit to us as well as a potential long term benefit. Awareness building from having your logo on their materials is a potential long term benefit. For short term, we usually look for events that we could use for networking which allows us to scare up more business with a great pitch ("Oh yeah we did all the design for this thing... ").

If these events are something you're interested in, ask for free entry to both. If you don't care about them, just send them an email saying something along the lines of, "Sorry, but I can't accept any work for trade at the moment for [whatever legitimate reason you have], however I would be extremely interested in working with you in the future when you have a budget." Also tell your friend you don't work for free, if you can be more blunt with him/her. You don't need to do anything special or beat around the bush when turning down non-paying projects. It's not like the person putting on the event would offer a sincere heartfelt apology for refusing a random person a free ticket.


Hey thanks! I got swamped with some gigs, so Ill be sure to shoot you over a PM as soon as I get some free time. It may be a few days, depending on my workload. I really appreciate it

Diabetes Forecast
Aug 13, 2008

Craptastic
Asslicious
It is for to waste
the time


So I entered a piece into a juried art show and it actually got in! That's great and all, but what exactly am I supposed to do if someone wants to buy my piece? I've never done this sort of thing before, so I have no idea what the general method is for handling a sale and how to make sure I actually get my money.

the
Jul 18, 2004

by Cowcaster


Colon Semicolon posted:

So I entered a piece into a juried art show and it actually got in! That's great and all, but what exactly am I supposed to do if someone wants to buy my piece? I've never done this sort of thing before, so I have no idea what the general method is for handling a sale and how to make sure I actually get my money.

Cash or cheque.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007


Questions about copyediting, and working for family:

My sister's been in her industry for a few years (quit her job a year or so ago to look for something better/try freelancing, recently got another job in her field that she likes at a large company). During her freelancing time, she started a blog about what she does, and has written a ~50 page e-book aimed at other pros (mostly beginners) in her industry. She isn't an awful writer, but definitely "average" at best, whereas writing is always something I've done well and really enjoy. She hired an editor to go over it, I'm not sure if the draft I got is pre- or post editor (for example, on the first page "Forward" in big letters at the top, rather than "Foreword"), but it definitely needs a good bit of cleaning up to have the readability match the content and formatting (which are great). I decided to do this one for free (mostly because I'm currently unemployed and have little else to do, also family), but she's said she wants to hire me to edit in the future. What's a good family rate for someone who is just starting out? I'm hoping it might later lead to some other paid gigs through her friends, colleagues, etc. Non-fiction/copywriting/copyediting is something I've wanted to break into for a long time as a side gig, but never really had any opportunities come up, or known where to look.

She's also recently gotten my father to start a blog about sailing, something that he's really passionate and knowledgeable about. He's had articles published in sailing magazines before, and now that he's retired from his day job, he delivers the odd yacht or charges $300/day to teach rich people how to use the fancy sailboats they just bought. (Basically, he really knows his poo poo.) He's not a great writer though. As a part of the site, he's going to be recommending a lot of gadgets and stuff through Amazon Affiliates (he already gets asked to do seminars about stuff to buy for your boat, figures he might as well start making a commission ), so if it takes off, he would be making some money from the site. It's pretty much beer money as far as he's concerned, and charging him per word/post at this early stage wouldn't make sense (aside from the domain and paid Wordpress hosting he doesn't care to invest any more money in it), so I was thinking of asking for a percentage of the net affiliate sales, after his hosting expenses. Not expecting to make anything more than (a percentage of) beer money myself, it's more a labor of love and hopefully a nice portfolio piece, which might lead to some other paid work through him, people he knows, etc. Does this sound OK? I'm going to edit a few posts for him and let him decide how much (if anything) it's worth to him based on how he likes it.

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"



Grimey Drawer

Pompous rhombus, whatever you do charge him by the hour.

LifeLynx
Feb 27, 2001

Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time

Grimey Drawer

I worked for a company for five years, and it was basically my first start into the web design field. I loved it and did a lot of nice work, but I got let go last year. I've been using work I did while at the company on my portfolio, not including any links to the actual website. Recently I've been getting calls, emails, and Facebook messages from my former boss asking me to take those off my portfolio. Since all but two sites on my portfolio were done for the company, this would gut my portfolio.

I know they're bullshitting me because at first they said they got "two phone calls today" from two different clients, and then it was one phone call, and then it was one email, etc. So I know no client complained and they're just harassing me for no reason - also, they've done this to previous coworkers.

Going by this quote:

quote:

Speaking of which, you have the right to display your work in your portfolio as a method of advertising your abilities. If clients demand that you don’t show your work (and there are ways around disclosing sensitive info), you need to receive compensation enough to make up for the loss in potential business.

I have the right to use it, right? I wasn't under an NDA and there was no contract specifying I couldn't use anything in my portfolio.

Edit: Oh, Works for Hire seems to imply I can't use it. They're still dicks for gutting my portfolio out of spite.

But I'm finding a lot of conflicting information online whether I can/can't use it. Some people say I can, as long as it's advertising my skills and I'm not contacting the client to steal business from my former employer.

LifeLynx fucked around with this message at Oct 9, 2014 around 14:53

le capitan
Dec 29, 2006
When the boat goes down, I'll be driving

BJPaskoff posted:

I have the right to use it, right? I wasn't under an NDA and there was no contract specifying I couldn't use anything in my portfolio.

Just a heads up, i have a rough understanding of these things based on what I've read online and friends showing client work.

If you're not under NDA and there's nothing in the contract saying you can't use the work for portfolio purposes, you should be fine.

I'd say that typically this is covered in a contract. There's usually a section covering rights of use.

Have you tried talking through this with them? I don't know the entire situation, but i would call them up or meet with them in person and tell them that they're gutting your portfolio. If they're still being dicks about it though after trying to play nice I'd mention the lack of NDA and contract.

Contracts are there to protect both parties. If this was covered in the contract you'd both know where this stands; if you couldn't use it you would've gotten paid more as well to compensate for the loss of promotional work for yourself and getting future work.

signalnoise
Mar 7, 2008


I work with a convention that is looking to make a very limited run of playing cards for our 21st anniversary. Can someone tell me how much art should generally cost for a reasonable quality anime-style set of face cards, jokers, and tuckbox art? I want to know how much I should expect to be paying, and at what point I should feel I'm getting ripped off.

moerketid
Jul 3, 2012



signalnoise posted:

I work with a convention that is looking to make a very limited run of playing cards for our 21st anniversary. Can someone tell me how much art should generally cost for a reasonable quality anime-style set of face cards, jokers, and tuckbox art? I want to know how much I should expect to be paying, and at what point I should feel I'm getting ripped off.

I've done work for a small trading card game for a few years which is I guess the closest thing I can think of for you, and the payment for 1 piece of digital artwork for 1 card was between $50-$250 depending on the complexity of the content.

However what you're talking about there, what I've seen done in the past is to ask for passionate volunteers to chip in with artwork submissions - assuming this is not trying to line someone's pockets. Profits would then be donated to charity, or split among the artists. If the profit were to be for the convention for e.g. new equipment or something, that should be made very clear though.

SteveVizsla
Mar 18, 2009

Why do I always want to sock it to you so hard?


First: The Copyright Myths link no longer works

I'm trying to find information on what legal rights photographers have against artists who paint their work, including those who digitally paint over the photos, and then sell those works. I own a rare breed of dog that a lot of people are visually attracted to, and this is really becoming a problem for those of us who own them and are also photographers. Everyone I know of this happening to have sold images for stock, do client work on the side, etc.

Two examples:
-One involves two photos being digitally turned into paintings by a woman who's probably the most popular dog artist on Etsy (I've also seen her stuff in many stores lately... she's known for doing lots of different breeds). I know a photographer in another less common breed who says the painting of her breed is from a stolen photo, as well.
-Today I was glancing through fineartamerica.com and found another work being sold as prints, cards, etc. that's a copy of another friend's photo. She has a very distinctive photo editing style and the painting even replicates that, to the point that I instantly recognized it and messaged her. I could even name which of her dozens of dogs it is.

hac
Oct 21, 2005


SteveVizsla posted:

First: The Copyright Myths link no longer works

I'm trying to find information on what legal rights photographers have against artists who paint their work, including those who digitally paint over the photos, and then sell those works. I own a rare breed of dog that a lot of people are visually attracted to, and this is really becoming a problem for those of us who own them and are also photographers. Everyone I know of this happening to have sold images for stock, do client work on the side, etc.

Two examples:
-One involves two photos being digitally turned into paintings by a woman who's probably the most popular dog artist on Etsy (I've also seen her stuff in many stores lately... she's known for doing lots of different breeds). I know a photographer in another less common breed who says the painting of her breed is from a stolen photo, as well.
-Today I was glancing through fineartamerica.com and found another work being sold as prints, cards, etc. that's a copy of another friend's photo. She has a very distinctive photo editing style and the painting even replicates that, to the point that I instantly recognized it and messaged her. I could even name which of her dozens of dogs it is.

Not really sure about the answer to this but I'm curious what kind of dog you have.

Chitin
Apr 29, 2007

It is no sign of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

You certainly have a strong case - see the Obama "Hope" poster lawsuit.

SteveVizsla
Mar 18, 2009

Why do I always want to sock it to you so hard?


^^ Thanks, I will! I'd forgotten about that case.

hac posted:

Not really sure about the answer to this but I'm curious what kind of dog you have.

Ibizan Hound

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"



Grimey Drawer

SteveVizsla posted:

First: The Copyright Myths link no longer works

I'm trying to find information on what legal rights photographers have against artists who paint their work, including those who digitally paint over the photos, and then sell those works. I own a rare breed of dog that a lot of people are visually attracted to, and this is really becoming a problem for those of us who own them and are also photographers. Everyone I know of this happening to have sold images for stock, do client work on the side, etc.

Two examples:
-One involves two photos being digitally turned into paintings by a woman who's probably the most popular dog artist on Etsy (I've also seen her stuff in many stores lately... she's known for doing lots of different breeds). I know a photographer in another less common breed who says the painting of her breed is from a stolen photo, as well.
-Today I was glancing through fineartamerica.com and found another work being sold as prints, cards, etc. that's a copy of another friend's photo. She has a very distinctive photo editing style and the painting even replicates that, to the point that I instantly recognized it and messaged her. I could even name which of her dozens of dogs it is.
Both of these you have a decent copyright claim to. But how you go about this will differ.

For the bulk art site, do the formal process for reporting copyright infringement http://fineartamerica.com/termsofuse.html

For the Etsy woman, the formal process is here https://www.etsy.com/help/article/482/
Though you may decide it is easier to send a message to the seller saying you own the copyright to the work she copied, and request that she stop selling that item immediately, or offer to license the rights to her for a fair price.

If you've sold the picture as stock, check your agreement with the stock agency, as it might affect what your rights are to claim against this photo.



New myths link, looks like it's signup required now.
https://graphicartistsguild.org/too...copyright-myths

PS Nice rabbit looking dog. I was worried it would be that one that looks like a mop

Bad Milk
Nov 14, 2014


Hello everyone, I'm a Spanish artist who's been working freelance in Spain since I graduated with my MFA (equivalent more or less) four years ago. In Spain, "working freelance" in these times of Eurozone crisis means "getting hosed up the rear end" because no one wants to offer you any contract and even if they do, good luck getting them to include payment terms in the contract. Basically, this country's art industry has gone to poo poo and Spanish publishers are panicking because no one wants to buy glossy art books when the average citizen can't keep the lights on.

I just finished a commission for an online children's book (I've published a couple kids' books already) and the client was very agreeable and gave me considerable artistic freedom with the commission. However, when I submitted the work and sent them the bill as per the contract they sent me a long email basically saying that what they wanted a month ago when I was first commissioned and what they wanted all this time throughout the commission is not what they want right now, and now I have to put more work into something that by all rights is finished. I've read the thread and unfortunately "gently caress you pay me" doesn't work in Spain where all the starving artists who haven't moved back in with their parents have starved to death already.


you asked me to draw this loving photo exactly in my style and now you want them all to be smiling and clapping?! people didnt smile in photos back then wtf

Earlier this year I had a commission from one of my father's best clients for a triptych. I spent a month exclusively on this commission since the client promised to pay me 2.5k Euros. There was no contract because like I said my dad knew him for years and he paid whatever price for other commissions too because he's some rich Italian bastard. I sent him a digital copy of the triptych and he gave me the green light to go ahead and begin painting. The guy promptly disappeared from the face of the earth (but he still buys prints and poo poo in Spain wtf) and the finished triptych is collecting dust at my parents' house.


so pretty and so dusty...

So I want to branch out and start working for North American companies or anywhere that's not here. I have no idea how or where to begin. My boyfriend has been a SA goon for over ten years and he says that SA has a good community of helpful rear end in a top hat frikis (that's Spanish for nerds) and this would be a good place to start, or at least get some information. My English is not so good so my bf helped me write this too but I manage whenever I do get a commission in English. I´m also not sure if this post belongs in this thread or another thread in CC. Thanks in advance!

Bad Milk fucked around with this message at Nov 16, 2014 around 12:30

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"



Grimey Drawer

Bad Milk posted:

Hello everyone, I'm a Spanish artist who's been working freelance in Spain


so pretty and so dusty...

So I want to branch out and start working for North American companies or anywhere that's not here. I have no idea how or where to begin. My boyfriend has been a SA goon for over ten years and he says that SA has a good community of helpful rear end in a top hat frikis (that's Spanish for nerds) and this would be a good place to start, or at least get some information. My English is not so good so my bf helped me write this too but I manage whenever I do get a commission in English. I´m also not sure if this post belongs in this thread or another thread in CC. Thanks in advance!
I would start with http://clientsfromhell.net/tagged/Free%20Advice, make sure you have a good portfolio website up in both spanish and english, and then find freelance boards to join. Other people can speak better to what those websites are for artists.

If your Spanish clients won't sign contracts, perhaps you can call them "letters of agreement." Not a lawyer, don't know what's enforceable over there, but at least you'll have a clear set of expectations on paper that you can put in their face when they try to change the deal. Try also to collect as much of the fee up front as you can: here it's not uncommon to have part of the fee come when you sign the contract, then the rest at milestones along the way, with the final payment upon delivery.

Bad Milk
Nov 14, 2014


Thanks for the info, I took a look at the page and it looks this kind of poo poo happens everywhere! The problem in Spain is that the client offers YOU the contract and all the terms are theirs. This last commission I was able to get the client to raise the fee a little bit but that was one exception in four years. A major part of the problem is that if you try to renegotiate the contract they´ll stop talking to you, drop off the face of the earth, or tell you to gently caress off in a nice email. There´s always someone more desperate and more and more are working for free.

When it comes to clients I have also noticed that there´s a big difference between office drones and people with a background in something creative. The former have no idea what the want and they keep changing their mind throughout the goddamn project but the latter know what they want, probably know your work, and know what to expect from you.

pipes!
Jul 10, 2001


Nap Ghost

Bad Milk posted:

The problem in Spain is that the client offers YOU the contract and all the terms are theirs.

Have you thought about searching for jobs outside of the country? Currency conversion is trivial nowadays, illustration is remote work, and you seem to have a great grasp of English.

Bad Milk
Nov 14, 2014


pipes! posted:

Have you thought about searching for jobs outside of the country? Currency conversion is trivial nowadays, illustration is remote work, and you seem to have a great grasp of English.

I know! I said so in my first post in this thread. My problem right now is that I don´t see the way of getting work outside my country. I´ve had some commissions from the US through a Spanish website but I want to stop dealing with Spanish poo poo. I have a deviantart and all that but I get drowned out with all the other artists. I get invited to conventions here and stuff and my prints sell at conventions in America but I need to get my name out there because this place is a black hole. I guess ¨lurking¨ here is a good idea? Thanks for the help.

triplexpac
Mar 24, 2007

Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you


I was dumb and did freelance design work for a company for years with no contract. I know now with hindsight it was stupid, but at the time I was young and just thrilled to be getting money on the side.

Anyway, they eventually stopped using me and started using another designer (without telling me haha)

Now they want me to send them native files of work I've done for them in the past.

We never worked out who owned what, and I don't want to just hand over all the work I've done for them to reprint and make money off of. Am I in the right to basically say "gently caress you pay me" (in nicer terms, of course)?

readingatwork
Jan 8, 2009

Good grief


triplexpac posted:

I was dumb and did freelance design work for a company for years with no contract. I know now with hindsight it was stupid, but at the time I was young and just thrilled to be getting money on the side.

Anyway, they eventually stopped using me and started using another designer (without telling me haha)

Now they want me to send them native files of work I've done for them in the past.

We never worked out who owned what, and I don't want to just hand over all the work I've done for them to reprint and make money off of. Am I in the right to basically say "gently caress you pay me" (in nicer terms, of course)?


My personal approach would be:

"I'm sorry! It looks like I deleted those files at some point. Give me a couple of days to dig around and I'll see if I backed them up somewhere.

On a completely unrelated note, how much am I going to be getting for the use of my work?"

triplexpac
Mar 24, 2007

Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you


readingatwork posted:

My personal approach would be:

"I'm sorry! It looks like I deleted those files at some point. Give me a couple of days to dig around and I'll see if I backed them up somewhere.

On a completely unrelated note, how much am I going to be getting for the use of my work?"

Haha I thought about it! I talked with the client last night, it was a pretty funny exchange.

• It started off with them basically saying "we paid you X for your work and also gave you comp tickets to some events. We've been in the print business for years and it's a normal thing for a designer to give up his working files"
• When I sent them a bunch of links explaining that no, the client does not own the files they responded with "well we won't use you for any future work!!" (They already have been using a new designer and haven't contacted me once since August)

Anyway I told them if they wanted to use me for future work that's great, but I'm raising my rates.

They haven't sent me any messages since, so I am assuming their next step will be sending me some scary message from their legal team.

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kedo
Nov 27, 2007



If you don't have a contract this is an issue for the courts. Since neither of you have a written understanding of where you stand, who knows really? What happens will boil down to how much this is going to hurt them financially. By not giving them the work are you causing them more financial pain than the cost of suing you? If yes, get ready for some legal fun. If no, it's a crapshoot that will probably depend on how much you've annoyed them/how prickly they are.

When I freelance I have two types of arrangements with people: work for hire (written from an employer's perspective, but you'll get the idea), or as an independent contractor. The jist of the former is stated in my contract: I'm basically just working for a paycheck and they get automatic ownership of the fun things I create. For the latter I retain all rights and source files until I've been paid at which time they're released, though I never release unpublished concepts, original sketches, etc. I get paid more for the first, but don't do it all that often.

It sounds like they're arguing that you were doing work for hire.



Also as a side note: just give up the source files. I always, always give away source files and it has never once bitten me. If someone no longer wishes to do business with you, refusing to give them source files is thumbing your nose at them and burning bridges. You will never get money for them, you're only going to piss someone off who will now be speaking badly about you. Trust me, this fight is never worth it. I watched my previous employer fail to achieve anything arguing with clients about poo poo like this, and now he has the reputation of being difficult to deal with and loses projects because of it.


e: tl;dr to answer your first question, "Am I in the right to basically say "gently caress you pay me" (in nicer terms, of course)?"
In legal terms, maybe, if you want to fight.
In business terms if you care about your reputation, no.

kedo fucked around with this message at Dec 2, 2014 around 17:10

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