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Fifty Three
Oct 29, 2007



ThinkFear posted:

I just slide the appropriately sized allen key between the scope and base. Works like a charm.

Shaocaholica posted:

It's called a feeler gauge. You're welcome.
I've been idly reading through this thread and just wanted to thank you both for these recommendations. I feel like an idiot for not thinking of it, and was planning on the "bubble level on rifle, then bubble level on scope" method. I like this a lot better.

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wkarma
Jul 16, 2010


Fifty Three posted:

I've been idly reading through this thread and just wanted to thank you both for these recommendations. I feel like an idiot for not thinking of it, and was planning on the "bubble level on rifle, then bubble level on scope" method. I like this a lot better.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...cks-scope-jack/

jwang
Mar 31, 2013


That FN SCAR, is it in 6.5 Creedmoor or 308 Win?

Saint Celestine
Dec 17, 2008

Lay a fire within your soul and another between your hands, and let both be your weapons.
For one is faith and the other is victory and neither may ever be put out.

- Saint Sabbat, Lessons

Grimey Drawer

jwang posted:

That FN SCAR, is it in 6.5 Creedmoor or 308 Win?

Its a 308. I'm using it as a DMR, not a 1000+ yarder

Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


Saint Celestine posted:

Its a 308. I'm using it as a DMR, not a 1000+ yarder

How much does it weigh?

Saint Celestine
Dec 17, 2008

Lay a fire within your soul and another between your hands, and let both be your weapons.
For one is faith and the other is victory and neither may ever be put out.

- Saint Sabbat, Lessons

Grimey Drawer

Atticus_1354 posted:

How much does it weigh?

Right now, with my bathroom scale measurements, 13 lbs. This chonker of a scope really adds to the weight :/

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013



Miso Beno posted:



If you're shooting off of a bench and keeping things in that 6-1200y range you can have a lot of fun with a 6.5 Creedmoor AR10. I regularly run mine out to 850 yards with a 1/3 IPSC target.

What's a good 6.5 AR-10? I'd rather just buy something out of the box that works and doesn't have to be upgraded a lot than gently caress around with building my own. I was looking at maybe the Savage MSR-10 Hunter (which I would want a nicer trigger on) or possibly the s&w performance center ar10 in 6.5 at the higher end of my budget but it seems to come with every thing I could possibly want.

Main usecase would be fun plinking and occasional DMR bonus targets at 3gun matches so I'd prefer if it wasn't a 16lb boat anchor.

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

That's a Mega Arms build and its been super duper trouble-free like all of my Mega buids. My Aero / BA / Mega 308 build was a total problem child though, but I'm preeettyyyy sure thats because of the Aero bolt.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001

I'm not looking for your validation through this telescope, just planets boobies bullets


College Slice

Cross posting in a couple threads. Is Strelok still the go-to app for reticles and ballistics data? I've been using the free app for a while with my precision .22 and like it enough to consider one of the paid versions, but I'm not sure if I should go with the Plus or Pro version.

The only thing I'd really like that Strelok doesn't have is a PC program that links up with the mobile app so I don't have to fidget with a mobile interface when I'm messing around with custom load data and seeing holdover info for SFP ballistic reticles at different magnifications. If there are other apps I should be looking into I'm all ears. Right now I'm pretty happy with making my own dope cards in Excel that fit into a little windowed slot in my shooting mat, but the extra features like using your phone's barometric and weather sensors to update data in real time seem really cool to me, on top of the additional reticle data at different zoom levels.



And my little cheatsheet I have folded in half and laminated into a card that's come in really handy on many occasions.

wkarma
Jul 16, 2010


I'm all in on Applied Ballistics, with AB Analytics on a laptop that I can take to the range, AB mobile with custom drag models on my phone, a Garmin 701 with AB (with data loaded from the laptop) and a kestrel and sig kilo3000 binos that talk to the garmin or phone app.


But mostly that's for ELR stuff, and it doesn't do reticles like Strelok. Although they do have custom drag models for several varieties of .22LR now since .22 ELR became a thing.

californiasushi
Jun 6, 2004


i have strelok+ along with shooter and an ab kestrel. i got strelok+ for all the reticles and it's really nice for that, but i like the ab kestrel the best for getting actual corrections. i'd go with strelok pro because it seems to have more features to help you fine tune your settings to get better corrections than strelok+ or free

i don't mind inputting all the data on the phone, it doesn't long at all plus you can back it up

Yuns
Aug 19, 2000

There is an idea of a Yuns, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory, and though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable: I simply am not there.


I use both AB and Strelok but AB with custom drag models is really my go to. I mostly use Strelok solely to get quick holdovers on my 2 SFP variable scopes since it has the reticles and can give me the holdovers for various magnifications very very quickly.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001

I'm not looking for your validation through this telescope, just planets boobies bullets


College Slice

Looking at the programs like Applied Ballistics that link up with PC programs and drat are they pricey compared to Strelok Pro, so I might as well go with that. For now we're setting our end goal as consistent hits on steel at 500 meters, which seems reasonable if difficult for me with my scout rifle set up with a 2-7x32 Burris. After getting sighted in at 50m it was so satisfying for all the preparatory calculations to work in practice and nail the 200m gong on my second shot onwards by just using my dope card.



That's also my buddy's goal who picked up a Ruger American Ranch right after I got my scout, but his is set up more traditionally with a Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24x50 in MRAD. He's probably going to be able to reach out a bit further so I want to work on being a better spotter, and want to know if I'm doing things right and what kinds of things I should learn to communicate better.

For spotting optics I've been using my astronomy gear which consists of:

  • 15x70 binoculars, which work well if I can find something to brace it on, since I lost the tripod adapter and need to get around to getting a replacement.

  • 102mm Schmidt Cassegrain telescope with 1200mm focal length. Using a 10mm eyepiece that's 120x magnification, but the smallest one I've got right now is a 26mm eyepiece which gives 46x magnification. I also dug up a 2.5mm eyepiece which would give 480x magnification, but it looks pretty cheap and I'd have to make or find an adapter since it's a different diameter from the standard for "good" stuff. It's probably trash for astronomy, but I wonder how it would do in the daytime for long range spotting.

    Apparently for astronomy this specific scope has a bad rep, but it's small enough to be lugged around in a carrying case, compared to my 8" Dobsonian that's almost as tall as I am. So far I've been happy with it when spotting from a bench, but I've yet to actually take it into the field. I don't have a Porro prism so stuff is reversed requiring the spotter to be cognizant of that.

  • A bunch of various telescope spotting scopes that can be used handheld that range from 4x to 8x as far as I can tell. Small and easily packable, but everything's upside down.

Does that seem like alright kit for being a spotter at various distances? With the more powerful optics I can sit well behind the shooter, and we use radios when we're in the bush that can hook into electronic earpro. Our rangefinder is a Kilo 1200 which has been doing us good so far, and we're using flagging tape for reading the wind. The op goes into a bit of detail about being concise with communication and what information is important to relay, so if there's any articles or guides you can suggest I'd be glad to go over them to become a better shooting partner.

Yuns
Aug 19, 2000

There is an idea of a Yuns, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory, and though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable: I simply am not there.


Have a stable base/tripod for whatever optic you use as a spotting scope and at 500 yards or less you can even just use another riflescope. But handholding or having wobbly support is an exercise in frustration especially as you reach out to 800+ with smaller rounds. One additional thing to note. I use a Swarovski spotting scope but you don't really need anything so pricey to spot but if you're going to be behind the glass all day, having nicer glass helps a lot with the fatigue of being behind it all day.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001

I'm not looking for your validation through this telescope, just planets boobies bullets


College Slice

Yeah, it goes without saying that a good mount goes a long way to making things less frustrating. For my binoculars I brace them on a sandbag but that doesn't always lead to the most comfortable positions so I need to figure out where I misplaced the adapter or get a new one.

The telescope has adjustable tripod legs, but it can also be placed right on its base or attached to something more heavy duty. That works fine on the bench, but I'm guessing the tripod configuration will be more stable on uneven terrain. The star diagonal can be removed, but a Porro prism is still needed for a properly oriented visual.

wkarma
Jul 16, 2010


Coxswain Balls posted:

Yeah, it goes without saying that a good mount goes a long way to making things less frustrating. For my binoculars I brace them on a sandbag but that doesn't always lead to the most comfortable positions so I need to figure out where I misplaced the adapter or get a new one.

The telescope has adjustable tripod legs, but it can also be placed right on its base or attached to something more heavy duty. That works fine on the bench, but I'm guessing the tripod configuration will be more stable on uneven terrain. The star diagonal can be removed, but a Porro prism is still needed for a properly oriented visual.



Dude, honestly, just get a cheap spotter. You don't have to spend a lot at all for <500 especially for steel. Barska, Konus, or Celestron have a lot of options sub 200 bucks. I got by with a 100mm objective barska for a lot of years. Was it the best? Nope. Chromatic aberration was pretty ugly. Could I see hits on steel out to 1k in light mirage? Yep.

Any scope, especially the cheaper ones will get worse as you get up to the top of it's magnification range. Great news. Most of them have way more than you need, and you'll be perfectly content in it's happy place. If you are trying to see bullet holes past ~200, good luck, even if you spend a ton of money. Much cheaper to get splatter targets like shoot-n-c's. Shooting steel? No reason to spend a ton at first until you know what you want and like and can justify the upgrade.

For 95% of the spotting I do (which is a lot), I use a fixed 30x setup because it has a reticle and to me that's waaaaay more important than having more magnification. I'm also using that 30x at over 2500 yards routinely and calling hits on steel. You don't need 60x or 90x to play at 500.

wkarma fucked around with this message at 23:58 on May 24, 2020

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001

I'm not looking for your validation through this telescope, just planets boobies bullets


College Slice

Even cheaper is not having to spend anything at all; I just listed what I already have and I'm not looking to spend even more money on optics right now.

The original question was about becoming a better spotter in the field for my buddies as they push further out, and that was a question about technique on top of how to best utilize the equipment I already have. The Schmidt Cassegrain has been working fine for us from the bench at our 200 yard range, and while we haven't used it in the field yet having it serve double duty on camping trips would be pretty nice. Is there anything specifically wrong with the equipment I posted other than being bulkier and perhaps more sensitive than purpose-built rifle spotting gear?

Action Jesus
Jun 18, 2002



Coxswain Balls posted:

The original question was about becoming a better spotter in the field for my buddies as they push further out, and that was a question about technique on top of how to best utilize the equipment I already have.

Well you'll need to get really good at:

-instinctively recognizing the flipped image and calling shots to your shooter in relation to their sight picture versus yours
-being able to transverse your space telescope using its fine adjustment as rapidly as possible if your shooters are engaging at multiple targets
-being able to rapidly and accurately adjust the fine focus adjustment on your space telescope if your shooters are engaging at targets of different distances
-having your space telescope on a very stable and secure platform on which you can make said movements without toppling it over on its relatively narrow and lightweight support legs

Depending on your binos sometimes you can find tripod adaptors, which I've used in the past and they're surprisingly handy. Whats also surprising is how handy an inexpensive spotting scope can be for practical range use, especially at just a couple hundred yards. They can usually be pointed where it needs to be faster, focused faster, and depending on what you go with, can have adjustable magnification without having to keep replacement apparatus on hand. If this whole post isn't some massive troll, then I think it should be said, a space telescope is very much not ideal for range use

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001

I'm not looking for your validation through this telescope, just planets boobies bullets


College Slice

You... do know that "space telescopes" are capable of large as well as fine adjustments, right? There's even a conversion kit for this model to use it as a spotting scope, which is just a Porro prism to correct the image if you aren't able to do it in your head.



I don't mean to sound rude but it sounds like your knowledge regarding non-firearm optics is lacking and you're being pretty abrasive about it, because all of the things you pointed out are easily done with the Schmidt Cassegrain I posted. You seem to have missed it while but I already said earlier that my binoculars and the scope can also be tripod mounted, and with the scope it changes to an alt-azimuth mount for even faster switching between targets if fast long range shooting ever becomes a thing we want to do.

I also said we've been using it for years for spotting with no issues and I brought it up mainly to get an idea of what kind of magnifications and fields of view for what distances I should be looking at using. I'm really beginning to regret that decision because now I've got people coming out of the woodwork telling me I should just be spending more money and my previous positive experiences with it are actually wrong, instead of engaging with the original question.



If it's impossible for me to become a better spotter for my friends without respecting my decision to not spend more money on optics then fine, gently caress it, forget I asked the question.

wkarma
Jul 16, 2010


You asked for our opinion, don't get angry when you get it. If it works for you, great. Super happy for you. Is it going to be anywhere near the top of things to recommend when someone asks "hey what do you think of my spotter set up?" Nope.

If all you want is internet strangers to validate your uncommon choices? Can't help you.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001

I'm not looking for your validation through this telescope, just planets boobies bullets


College Slice

I'm not looking for your validation on the unconventional equipment I'm using, I was hoping I'd get more useful advice such as Yuns explaining how not to get fatigued all day or your info about what magnifications are useful for what ranges for what type of shooting, as well as other useful advice about communication.

I'm making do with what I've got and what I didn't ask for was anyone's advice or recommendations on additional things to purchase. Additionally, the opinions I'm getting about it being so poor that I should be spending more money seem to be coming from people who are dealing with something out of their wheelhouse and instead of admitting that, I'm being called a troll because they don't know that slewing is a thing, or that OTAs are used all the time for double duty for terrestrial observation.

Yuns
Aug 19, 2000

There is an idea of a Yuns, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory, and though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable: I simply am not there.


I'm sure you know this already but being in line with your shooter as a spotter is really helpful because you can spot the wake of the round as it makes its arc to the target. Frequently when the round is smaller or the area around the target is not dry such as wet grass, you won't see dust from impact or other indications of an impact easily so seeing the bullet in flight is super helpful.

Yuns fucked around with this message at 03:41 on May 25, 2020

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001

I'm not looking for your validation through this telescope, just planets boobies bullets


College Slice

My buddy made some really slow Trail Boss loads he wanted to play with the other day and it was really cool being able to follow the actual round all the way to impact, especially as the sun was coming down. That's also why I'm kind of leaning away from using another rifle for spotting, since this way I can be directly behind them to look out for stuff like that and be more able to accurately tell where impacts are going off target.

Yuns
Aug 19, 2000

There is an idea of a Yuns, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory, and though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable: I simply am not there.


As far as magnification goes, I'm using a 20x-60x Swaro. I feel like 45x should be fine although 120x would give you a pretty amazing level of magnification on a plate at 1000. The wide angle Swaro eyepiece only goes to 50x. One thing I'm curious about the telescope is how tight the depth of field (not FOV) is when you get to magnifications like 120x?

I like turtles
Aug 6, 2009



Coxswain Balls posted:

Does that seem like alright kit for being a spotter at various distances?

Coxswain Balls posted:

I'm not looking for your validation on the unconventional equipment I'm using

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001

I'm not looking for your validation through this telescope, just planets boobies bullets


College Slice

Yuns posted:

As far as magnification goes, I'm using a 20x-60x Swaro. I feel like 45x should be fine although 120x would give you a pretty amazing level of magnification on a plate at 1000. The wide angle Swaro eyepiece only goes to 50x. One thing I'm curious about the telescope is how tight the depth of field (not FOV) is when you get to magnifications like 120x?

Once my friend can find my 10mm eyepiece I'll test it out. The magnification is the focal length of the optical tube divided by the focal length of the eyepiece. I'm limited to 46x right now because my 26mm Plossl is the only one I've got on hand, other than those cheap looking ones that are the wrong size. Let me know a magnification to try and I'll test it out.


Asking how something will work isn't the same as seeking validation for a purchase. And on top of that, I've yet to receive any valid feedback as to why it wouldn't work other than it's something they're not used to. I apologize for the misunderstanding, person who's never posted in this thread up until now.

If It's not going to work as a spotting scope, then I'll find a rifle to use it on. Too bad ARs just got banned up here, it's the only one I've got with enough rail space.

Coxswain Balls fucked around with this message at 04:47 on May 25, 2020

Action Jesus
Jun 18, 2002



ok bud

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001

I'm not looking for your validation through this telescope, just planets boobies bullets


College Slice

This is the first time I've made someone angry enough to buy my a custom av, and of all things it was over optics. I'm touched!

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe



More of this!



also that's a pretty decent av for one bought in anger

I like turtles
Aug 6, 2009



Coxswain Balls posted:

This is the first time I've made someone angry enough to buy my a custom av, and of all things it was over optics. I'm touched!

I probably would've gone with the "space" modules from portal if I'd bought it, but I can definitely say that's better lol

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001

I'm not looking for your validation through this telescope, just planets boobies bullets


College Slice

taqueso posted:

More of this!



That's the cheap Barlow lens I found with a 2.5mm eyepiece installed. With a focal length of 1200mm, that gives us...

(1200/2.5) * 3 = 1,440x magnification. The eye relief is probably going to be horrible, so good thing it sticks out so much!

(Honestly, I'm more upset about nobody catching on to my irrational numbers joke in the optics thread if people are going to make fun of me being a nerd. I'll keep it for a while until I start to miss my octopus buddy.)

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Hair Elf

lmfao that absolutely rules. Even if it doesn't work the picture is amazing.

flightless greeb
Jan 28, 2016



I need to dedicate the funds to an actual good spotting scope some day. Ive been using the same Konus since 2012 that I think this thread probably recommended to me and, having used some much nicer stuff thanks to the posters in this thread, I can definitely feel how big a deal a good spotting scope makes at being able to track a white target in an almost white desert at 1000y

Ceros_X
Aug 6, 2006

U.S. Marine


Coxswain Balls posted:

This is the first time I've made someone angry enough to buy my a custom av, and of all things it was over optics. I'm touched!

Weren't you just posting in the the General Thread about how you were worried your muzzle brake was going to damage your astronomy telescope? loving LOL.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001

I'm not looking for your validation through this telescope, just planets boobies bullets


College Slice

Ceros_X posted:

Weren't you just posting in the the General Thread about how you were worried your muzzle brake was going to damage your astronomy telescope? loving LOL.

Yes? The other reason I was thinking of swapping out my muzzle device is because it's proving to be very disruptive to my friends shooting next to me. In any case, Yuns' tip to try to be directly in line with the shooter mitigates that and is helpful advice for the original question.

It seems like I've touched a nerve with some of the folks here and I never imagined not wanting to spend money and making do with what I've got would make people so pissed, since it's never been a problem in other threads in the past. I apologise to those of you I've upset by trying to clear up the misconceptions about the unorthodox equipment I'm using, as it was never my intent to make people angry.

I like turtles
Aug 6, 2009



I don't think anyone is mad at you friend, they're just pointing out that the right tools for the job you're doing are not particularly expensive. Does your telescope make the far away things not far away? Certainly, and therefore it works as a spotting scope. Is it an answer? Certainly.
Can you put a nail into the wall with a sledgehammer? Sure. But the DIY people are going to look at you weird and wonder why you don't get a basic claw hammer for mundane tasks - the sledge hammer, while perfectly capable of doing the job is much more awkward to use and not optimally set up to do the job you want it to.

Asking for advice about an unconventional setup and being suggested to use a tool specifically designed for the purpose is hardly people ganging up and being mean to you on the internets.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001

I'm not looking for your validation through this telescope, just planets boobies bullets


College Slice

I appreciate that something purpose made would be more ideal, but it's just not in the budget which is what I keep trying to get across. That all went to the new rifle and optic I purchased because literally all of my centerfire rifles were banned a few weeks ago, and adding another couple hundred dollars to an unplanned purchase that's already close to the $2k mark just isn't on the table. Once/if the government gets around to sending us our banbucks then maybe I can entertain those options, but until then I'm going to be frugal and work with what I've got.

Some of my shooting group are into reloading and are changing gears to focus more on precision and distance because of the new bans, which is why my questions were more about technique and what I can do with what I've got to be more effective with our range time. Under the current circumstances "just spend more money" just isn't in the cards and I'm sorry for that, but berating me isn't going to change the situation and isn't helpful in answering the original question.

I like turtles
Aug 6, 2009



The reason you're getting the reaction you got was the sequence of events:
You said "Does this seem alright?"
Some people said "There are better tools, why don't you spend money on a better tool?"
You seemed to get offended and only then indicated that spending money wasn't feasible and they were being unhelpful by providing an answer to your question that, without that financial context, is an entirely reasonable response to your original question.

Money pinches are a thing everyone has gone through, nobody faults you for that. With the financial constraints in place, yes, your setup makes sense.

Please post a trip report if you can shoot appleseed/whateverseed with a mounted telescope on your gun.

Sucks about your gun laws, I know another few folks in your situation. Feels bad man.

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Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001

I'm not looking for your validation through this telescope, just planets boobies bullets


College Slice

My apologies for coming off as rude. I've been jumping from topic to topic recently while we've all been switching gears and I left out that important context in this particular thread. If you think the DIY insanity is bad in this thread, check out the testing I did in the optics thread while trying to decide on what scope to go with, and in the end that also worked out.

If the weather pans out this week I'll post a trip report if people are still interested. With a 26mm eyepiece it's probably not going to be anything special, but if I can find my 10mm then it'll get more interesting.

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