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 PRE ORDER HERE AND GET A COPY OF THE FINAL RULES NOW! Release is estimated June 2013. (Read about the delay here) moths posted:It's essentially an unfucked 3e that borrows the class balance, good math, and fun combat from 4e, while simultaneously incorporating cool story elements from the smaller indie games nobody ever runs. 13TH AGE is a D20 Dungeons & Dragons game. This means D&D dwarfs, dark elves, and dragons in medieval magical fantasy with heroes and quests and dungeons. It also means classes, spells, initiative, attributes, and skills. It's killing goblins and kobolds and ogres and rats of unusual sizes. But this isn't 5th edition. 13th Age isn't published by Wizards, or even by Paizo. 13th Age is not a retroclone or 4e's Pathfinder or Pathfinder 2.0 or anything like that.  Custom dice not needed to play this game because this also isn't Fantasy Flight The game has been described as Tweet and Heinsoo's house rules. These people are kind of a big deal. Jonathan Tweet was designing during 3e and 4e's release and has a hilariously awful webpage. He also designed Ars Magica and Over the Edge. Doc Hawkins posted:Tweet also made Everway, the OG Narrativist Karma-Resolution system. He's kinda a big deal. Rob Heinsoo was lead on 4e and one of the driving forces to pull D&D kicking and screaming from its nostalgic but outdated mechanics. He apparently fought hard to tone down caster supremacy, so he's pretty much a hero. He's a cool, funny guy too. Here's a cool, funny video Mikan posted. Rob is talking about the design philosophy behind 4th Edition. (Try to) ignore the very bald, awkward host. Tweet is known for an easy, informal style in his rules (that apparently doesn't grate on people like Luke Crane can) and Heinsoo has designed basically the most coherent, transparent D&D edition ever. Both have designed games explicitly not D&D, and both have clearly played other designers' games. All this has people really quite excited because  early concept art 13th Age built up a bunch of internet goodwill by 1) being a pretty good game, 2) doing a playtest that listened to the results, on its 6th revision as of Jan 2013, and 3) actively participating in online communities. waderocket will be happy to tell you how much 13th Age publicity has changed his life personally and profoundly. poo poo you want to know about 13th Age  the cover Icons The current forces of the world. The Archmage, the Priestess, the Elf Queen, the etc. Each Icon has a seat of power, goals, ambitions, armies. All player characters start with relationships with one or more Icons. As you gain experience, your relationships with the Icons also change. The world of 13th Age is in much flux, and leveraging your relationships will help you guide the world's direction. Icons' power and influence and beingness in the world depends on the kind of game the players and GM want to run. Are the Icons the figureheads of huge bureaucracies like Eberron, set piece NPCs like Forgotten Realms, something in between or wholly different? 13th Age steps aside and doesn't force the issue. Also advice on alternate versions or creating entirely new Icons. Escalation Die This is a single six sided die that exists on the table. As you play through rounds of combat, you increase the facing die by one. The escalation die generally increases your chance to hit, enables some actions, and is also impacted by some actions. This dramatically speeds up combat, and is fun to link into other mechanics for giant set piece encounters or to push players from room to room without catching their breath. One Unique Thing Each player character has One Unique Thing. It is some aspect or bit of history about the character that is truly unique in the world. It generally doesn't confer a mathematical bonus, though there are guidelines to balance it if it does. One Unique Things may be Always Knows the Value of Things, or Jumps Higher Than Anyone, or Believes Self to Be Reincarnated Dragon, etc. One Unique Things will significantly contribute to the feel of the game you're wanting to play. Backgrounds Gone are the endless lists of skill focus: -loving, or trying to figure out the difference between athletics and swimming. 13th Age eschews boring skills and instead allows players to pick their own backgrounds and dump points into them. These really flesh out the character. Now to bend bars, you use your professional circus freak in a past life background and add a strength modifier. gently caress interesting, what races and classes are there? Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard. You'll have to pick up the game to see the races because I fundamentally disagree that blood and heritage should determine ability. Each class has unique mechanics that give each a very different feel. Fighters select maneuvers based on how they rolled their to-hits. Rogues build momentum as they kill. Barbarians kick into rages. More when you buy now! Other Interesting Bits Feats As you play and gain experience, you select various feats that add abilities to your character. There are a handful of general feats available to all characters, and a handful of racial feats. The meat of the feat system is in the class sections, where feats beef up your low level abilities. The Barbarian's rage becomes more frequent, lightening bolts add effects, sneak attack applies to more conditions, etc. Magical Weapons Truly magical weapons come with a bit of personality. A particularly brutal weapon may make the wielder more partial to red meat. Most of the time, this doesn't affect you. Just a nagging tug in the back of the mind. Equip too many magical items, and these impulses become impossible to resist. Endless fun! Stat blocks! In true houserule form, all the unnecessary bullshit of traditional stat blocks never make it over. Monster stat blocks are a quick rundown of defenses and HP and an action or two. No list of ability scores that don't matter, no long spell lists for casting characters. Very easy to run, very easy to roll your own (guidelines are provided for building your own monsters, too). Why is this OP updated? A Mysterious PM posted:Hey! I'm talking with a 4e fan who took your first (and by now ancient) post on the 13th Age thread as gospel, and is publicly accusing me of a bait-and-switch because the game turned out not to match this part of the description: This is hilarious, so lets all take a moment and laugh at lessthanpleased who takes year old posts about elfgame rumors super seriously instead of directing his considerable anger at understanding how internet forums work.  Tweet being inscrutable Minions Minions are called mooks and work a bit different than 4e minions. Each minion has a HP value, but HP is combined into a single pool that is tracked. Damage is dealt to the group as a whole, and one minion is removed each time a multiple of the individual HP is reached. This means an attack may remove 2 or 3 minions. Or enough damage to kill 1 and a half minions, so 1 is removed and the next will be that much easier to kill. FYI, this is exactly how the new Star Wars RPG handles their minions. It's super intuitive to run and awesome when you have to figure out how your ranger's arrow killed 4 dirty little kobolds. Theatre of the MIND Distances in 13th Age are measured more abstractly than the strict 5'x5' grid of 3e and 4e. Distances are measured relative to each character in combat. A PC and monster may be engaged: bases touching and in the midst of melee. Or a PC may be near a monster: not engaged, but could be with one move. Or far away: two or more moves to reach the monster. Everything is still done on a map, though strictly speaking the map is more optional than 3e or 4e's reliance on a map. Anyway, these measurements greatly speed up combat, and also the hardcore push/pull tactics of 4e will not be there. It is a sacrifice, but 20 minute combats are worth it. 13 True Ways is a kickstarted expansion to 13th Age. Lots of new art and monsters and detailed descriptions of locations and other things. I Am Enjoying This Playtest It turns out this thread was the only place to get information on the game around 9 months ago because the first copy of the playtest document had a swiss cheese NDA and so we talked all about the mechanics in detail and a link to this thread hit higher on google than Pelgrane's page. So we all got a new NDA that said we could only say we were enjoying/not enjoying the playtest. Help us celebrate this hilarious gently caress up by repeating an awesome meme like at least once per page. Why You Should Why You Should Buy 5 Copies of This Book: If you love or are stuck with playing D&D, 13th Age will make your life soooooo much better. Even if you can't get your group to convert fully, there are a ton of ideas and subsystems here that will instantly make life easier. Replace your skills with backgrounds. Add a One Unique Thing to each character. Get ambitious and try the abstracted distances! Along these lines, it is also stupid easy to convert old D&D content into 13th Age. I've run basic, 3e and 4e games within 13th Age and nothing felt forced. Why You Shouldn't Buy This Game, 3.0 - 3.75 edition The game explicitly says you cannot be a poo poo farmer unless you are the best poo poo farmer in the world. There are minions. Your precious skill lists are gone. Martial characters get a bunch of maneuvers and other abilities that if you squint real hard look like your spellcaster's spells. It does not use your million splat books. Does not reward system mastery. Why You Shouldn't Buy This Game, 4th edition Your tactical combat is simplified -- no more grid. 9 point alignment is back and you have to ignore it all over again. There are simple, beginner classes that do not have many options and they happen to be the martial characters. Your 30 levels have been reduced to 10. Doesn't yet have the online tools that made 4e so easy to play and run. You will not get caught up on your taxes while waiting for your turn to come around. Why You Shouldn't Buy This Game, Indie edition Does not kill ability scores. Classic monsters are there, but without really unique or ironic takes. More complex characters also get more background points RAW. It is still possible to be an rear end in a top hat GM and follow the rules. Does not explicitly reward engagement with the game, intra party conflict, or character development. Is still D20 D&D. Resources! 13th Age official site Rob Heinsoo plays elfgames with a goon PAX demo adventure by Heinsoo Pelgrane Press's resource page One Page Dungeon Contest a great resource for the lazy GM. 13th Age Wiki (from Kenderama) The Reliquary, a kickstarted Bestiary by ASH LAW. Met 1300% of goal so now is much more than a quick bestiary. Nightfall, a totally not Ravenloft expansion by goon-owned Fun Tyrant (thanks Kenderama) Thoughtcrimegames is a site that has a lot of 13th Age material by lurker Quinn Murphy and goon Ryven Cedrylle, including monsters, excellent skill challenge rules, and an upcoming setting. 4e Assassin in 13th Age brought to you by Ryven and -Fish-. (thanks -Fish-) 13th Age Homebrews A blog. New but going strong at least in December 2012. Persuasions of the 13th Kind How to convert 4e to 13th Age. The design is unreadable, but the game design's pretty good. (thanks lessthanpleased) PM me if you'd like to see other SA resources here. fosborb fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Mar 14, 2013 |
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Mar 20, 2012 17:52
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Pelgrane Press why are you doing this to me  I like almost everything I hear about this thing.
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Mar 20, 2012 17:59
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Tweet also made Everway, the OG Narrativist Karma-Resolution system. He's kinda a big deal.
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Mar 20, 2012 18:03
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Still waiting for my own reply email too. You're not alone Mikan, have faith! Incidentally, this... quote:If each minion has 6 HP and you do 36 damage to one of them, remove 6 minions from the table and figure out a way to narrate how you were just awesome ...And this... quote:A grid isn't used, but maps are: you're either nearby, engaged in melee, or need more than 1 move to reach someone. ...make 13th Age sound like pretty much The Best Thing Ever. Seriously, it kinda sounds like if Legends of Anglerre and 4e had a love child, which is pretty much the most ringing endorsement you could give a game.
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Mar 20, 2012 18:03
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Thanks for the thread! I saw something in the 5e thread about alignment still mattering for paladins. Can I still play a chaotic good Paladin of the People charged with bringing down the corrupt monarchy/theocracy/ Also, is it worthwhile to play a fighter? And most importantly of all: Can I play a brawler? ImpactVector fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Mar 20, 2012 |
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Mar 20, 2012 18:05
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Thanks for the thread, fosorb! This is really peaking my interest so far. I'm amazed that they are attempting to fix the problems of 4th edition, while also tackling some of the goals of 5e (lighter rules, "modularity"). If I had a group to play with regularly, I'd sign up for play test in a heartbeat.
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Mar 20, 2012 18:07
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I think my favorite part about 13th Age is it's being designed by people who think about RPGs that aren't D&D. Designers learning lessons from non-D&D RPGs. The opposite of Monte Cook, basically. Everybody should watch the interviews with Rob Heinsoo prior to the release of 4e. You can find them here: http://www.youtube.com/user/GamerZer0 Here's a good starting point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtd1qAwGVeU
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Mar 20, 2012 18:11
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Applied for the playtest yesterday. *crosses fingers* No one has said anything to the contrary, so I assume the traditional six ability scores are still in?
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Mar 20, 2012 18:11
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One of my favorite mechanics ideas from this game is the Rogue's Momentum. Basically, the Rogue gains momentum when he hits with an attack and loses it when he's hit with one. Having momentum allows him to use special attacks that key off his momentum.
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Mar 20, 2012 18:16
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fosborb posted:A grid isn't used, but maps are: you're either nearby, engaged in melee, or need more than 1 move to reach someone.
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Mar 20, 2012 18:19
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Man, I wish my gaming group had any consistency with when we meet or I'd jump on this fast. Maybe I'll apply anyway and see what happens; no harm in it and you guys are making this sound incredible.
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Mar 20, 2012 18:21
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My Lovely Horse posted:This is an idea I was vaguely kicking around myself to fix issues with fiddly movement and I'm incredibly glad to see it used in an actual system by actual designers who presumably know what they're doing and not just by me, i.e. some dude who does not. I don't think I can not apply for this playtest. It sounds a lot like the WFRP3e mechanic, which I like.
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Mar 20, 2012 18:23
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Hmm. I dunno about the no grid thing. One of the best parts of 4e was how it had a lot of powers and tactics focusing on positioning and forced movement, while still being simple about it. Abstracting it more wouldn't feel the same. It's a minor worry though, everything else about it sounds cool.
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Mar 20, 2012 18:24
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I wonder if they allow PbP playtesting or if their NDA is against it. Cause I would sure play in a PbP game or two of this if it was the former.
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Mar 20, 2012 18:33
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Asimo posted:Hmm. I dunno about the no grid thing. One of the best parts of 4e was how it had a lot of powers and tactics focusing on positioning and forced movement, while still being simple about it. Abstracting it more wouldn't feel the same. After reading most of it, I think I'd still play with the grid just for help with visualizing the encounter, but the rules are really light about distances. Mostly you target someone you're engaged with, someone close, or someone you can see. Wizards get interesting spell slots as well, such as a "Utility" spell which takes up a spot and you can use it to cast 3 different spells. Like if you memorize Utility in a slot, you can burn it to cast either Feather Fall, Alter Self or Hold Portal.
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Mar 20, 2012 18:58
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Megazver posted:I wonder if they allow PbP playtesting or if their NDA is against it. Cause I would sure play in a PbP game or two of this if it was the former. Public PbP is likely a no-no. IRC gaming is likely to be OK though, as long as you don't just disseminate the rules.
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Mar 20, 2012 19:05
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Feel like I should post this, they're no longer accepting people for the first batch of playtesting. If, like me, you put off sending in your e-mail, you're going to have to wait until April and also cry all kinds of bitter tears But yeah, like I said in the 5e thread, this looks fantastic and like an amazing alternative to D&D Next. Can't wait!
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Mar 20, 2012 20:07
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ImpactVector posted:I saw something in the 5e thread about alignment still mattering for paladins. Can I still play a chaotic good Paladin of the People charged with bringing down the corrupt monarchy/theocracy/ You pump points into your relationships with the major movers and shakers of the world. At level 1 it's not like they know you personally, but you may have a good relationship with their organization or perhaps a bad one. You use these relationships in play to get access to additional resources or information and to drive your goals and others' interactions and perceptions about you. Off the top of my head, I can think of three or four that would be very interested in bringing down certain corrupt organizations. But it's not like there are any restrictions on this, or that chaotic means anything out of the context of your character's motivations, perceptions and interactions within your campaign. quote:Also, is it worthwhile to play a fighter? whydirt posted:No one has said anything to the contrary, so I assume the traditional six ability scores are still in?
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Mar 20, 2012 20:29
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I hope they're still going to send out the game to all of the people who sent in confirmation and are still waiting for the playtest documents. I'm still reading and taking notes so I don't have any solid criticisms yet. The classes look good so far (up to the Rogue) but I don't think I like the Barbarian.
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Mar 20, 2012 20:35
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Asimo posted:Hmm. I dunno about the no grid thing. One of the best parts of 4e was how it had a lot of powers and tactics focusing on positioning and forced movement, while still being simple about it. Abstracting it more wouldn't feel the same. Yeah, I feel the same. I always felt that the good 4E encounter areas had a character of their own and could transform the umpteenth battle against a group of orcs into something new. However, I am more than willing to keep an open mind about it if the designers can have more creative freedom that way, and I can still get tactical options that matter. I can't say the same thing about Alignment though. Like I said in the 5E thread, I am against it in all forms (core, optional, "kinda there but don't mind it"), although I bet that any player that is willing to give this system an honest try is going to have an open mind about alignments.
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Mar 20, 2012 20:47
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fosborb posted:Fighters look interesting, with lots of attacks that you choose after you roll to hit based on how you rolled. Not sure on the brawler. That may require a bit of reskinning, but I don't know what mechanics you consider "brawler."
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Mar 20, 2012 20:55
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I got the playtest docs yesterday.  I am planning on running an IRC session or two.
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Mar 20, 2012 21:31
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Fungah! posted:Feel like I should post this, they're no longer accepting people for the first batch of playtesting. If, like me, you put off sending in your e-mail, you're going to have to wait until April and also cry all kinds of bitter tears Nooo! How are they demarcating the people who missed the boat? I just sent my confirmation email agreeing to the playtest restrictions yesterday, will I still be able to get the playtest? I poo poo you not, I literally just started calling people yesterday to form a group for the express purpose of playing this thing, it's going to disappoint a couple friends if I don't get in. 
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Mar 20, 2012 21:31
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Captain Bravo posted:Nooo! How are they demarcating the people who missed the boat? I just sent my confirmation email agreeing to the playtest restrictions yesterday, will I still be able to get the playtest? I poo poo you not, I literally just started calling people yesterday to form a group for the express purpose of playing this thing, it's going to disappoint a couple friends if I don't get in. I sent an email asking about this since I had sent my confirmation last week, and I have friends who sent their confirmations last Friday but hadn't received the playtest files yet. I'll let you know when/if I get a response.
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Mar 20, 2012 21:32
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Captain Bravo posted:Nooo! How are they demarcating the people who missed the boat? I just sent my confirmation email agreeing to the playtest restrictions yesterday, will I still be able to get the playtest? I poo poo you not, I literally just started calling people yesterday to form a group for the express purpose of playing this thing, it's going to disappoint a couple friends if I don't get in. I don't really know for sure, but I'd imagine if they already confirmed it with you, you're fine. It's probably just cut off for people who haven't sent in their initial e-mail. Like me 
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Mar 20, 2012 21:37
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Seriously, though, from what I've heard so far this sounds like the absolute best way to introduce someone to a pen and paper RPG. Easy rules, quick fixes to houserule away stuff in the manual, and loads of references to other, good games, so if a new player likes what they see they know what to ask for? If it's only half as good as it's been touted, I'll be using the new group to introduce my girlfriend and roommates to gaming.
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Mar 20, 2012 21:47
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Edit. Nevermind.
Verdugo fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Mar 22, 2012 |
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Mar 20, 2012 21:56
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This is just based on reading and I'll need to play it and I haven't given it a thorough look but so far multiclassing penalties seem a little harsh. You're down a class feature, you have die penalties, lower defenses, you're a level behind and your powers can't really interact plus a few other things. The hypothetical versatility doesn't seem even remotely worth the penalties you have to deal with.
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Mar 20, 2012 22:02
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Without seeing the rules, I'd rather they err on the side of caution for multiclassing. I'd rather have to houserule in changes to make it worthwhile than to figure out some kludge to make staying single classed seem desirable.
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Mar 20, 2012 22:03
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Mikan posted:This is just based on reading and I'll need to play it and I haven't given it a thorough look but so far multiclassing penalties seem a little harsh. You're down a class feature, you have die penalties, lower defenses, you're a level behind and your powers can't really interact plus a few other things. Yeah my friend had the same criticisms, he liked the free multiclassing of 3rd edition and felt like this wasn't as "mix and match."
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Mar 20, 2012 22:03
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Even coming at it from a 4e perspective, it's way harsher than hybrid multiclassing and you already have to do some tricky stuff to make hybrids
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Mar 20, 2012 22:06
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Are there warlord-like abilities in the playtest? Either as the actual class or as abilities for the fighter?
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Mar 20, 2012 22:07
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I don't see any so far, and definitely not for the Fighter. Bards are awesome though.
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Mar 20, 2012 22:10
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whydirt posted:Are there warlord-like abilities in the playtest? Either as the actual class or as abilities for the fighter? I don't see any for Fighter, but they're pretty cool. They unlock abilities as the Escalation die goes up and have some stuff that's triggered on a miss. Their Intercept class feature is pretty awesome, it triggers once per round on an enemy moving to attack an ally, you break away from anyone you're engaged with and take the attack instead. If you're wearing heavy armor, you only take 1/2 damage from the attack. Unfortunately, to do the Intercept move, you have to roll a d20 and get 11+, which is a recurring theme in the playtest. It seems like a lot of extra die rolling when 4e felt like it was eliminating as many dice as it could.
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Mar 20, 2012 22:14
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The bard's battlecries are pretty much the warlord. I don't think the lazylord is on the table yet, but if you want to focus on granting specific bonuses to other characters the bard's your best bet. Cleric to buff them. Paladin has a confrontation power that's pretty much a single target defendery mark for both of you. Want to dig into the fluff next. Outside of the icons, I've really just been plowing through mechanics. There's far more fluff than I would have expected in a crunchy playtest.
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Mar 20, 2012 22:19
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Rope Trick 
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Mar 20, 2012 22:20
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Captain Bravo posted:Seriously, though, from what I've heard so far this sounds like the absolute best way to introduce someone to a pen and paper RPG. That's a very strong statement, but I could give you "a D&D-esque RPG." Even then, there's stiff competition, like Dungeon World.
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Mar 20, 2012 22:22
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Mikan posted:Rope Trick Ha I had to read the description, if you level it up it comes with hot tubs and nice beds. It reads like an advertisement: "Indulge yourself with a 7th level Rope Trick."
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Mar 20, 2012 22:29
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Parts of this are hilarious. That was definitely one of them. "Technical details? Boring..." There's a great sense of humor here. Every time I see something I'm not thrilled about I see two or three things I love, so I'm really not sure where I stand yet.
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Mar 20, 2012 22:33
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One thing I'm not really liking is the 1d3 mechanic. I have a feeling it's a way to get around rigidly defining areas of powers, but rolling 1d3 to see how many people you're able to hit with something just feels strange, especially with something like a Fireball. Plus I just hate d3's, I don't know why, but I hate them so much.
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Mar 20, 2012 22:36
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