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ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost
Thanks for the thread!

I saw something in the 5e thread about alignment still mattering for paladins. Can I still play a chaotic good Paladin of the People charged with bringing down the corrupt monarchy/theocracy/corporationsguilds?

Also, is it worthwhile to play a fighter?

And most importantly of all: Can I play a brawler?

ImpactVector fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Mar 20, 2012

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ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost

fosborb posted:

Fighters look interesting, with lots of attacks that you choose after you roll to hit based on how you rolled. Not sure on the brawler. That may require a bit of reskinning, but I don't know what mechanics you consider "brawler."
Sounds sweet, thanks for answering my questions. And mostly I just want to be able to punch a dragon in the face. Being able to grab/throw (push and/or prone) them would be an added bonus. If most of that is available and it's easy to reskin stuff then I'm set. (Also I'm mostly joking. I'm not really that picky on what I play as long as the existing mechanics are fun.)

ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost

Evil Mastermind posted:

(On the subject of Fate, it kind of reminds me of when my friends and I played Spirit of the Century, where you get 10 Aspects; once you got past the obvious ones for your character it got harder and harder to come up with new ones, and by the time they got to the last two people were pretty much out of ideas.)
I think FATE gets away with having so many freeform descriptors because there's usually some kind of structure to about 3-5 of them, like the cameo episode aspects of SotC. If you didn't have those you'd really be reaching by the end.

ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost

Transient People posted:

The problem with that is that it has 'unstable equilibrium' written all over it. You lose one fight, so next fight you lose harder, and next fight harder than that, and...it's a very tricky issue.
Right. If there's no pacing mechanism in the game then you either end up with a death spiral waiting to happen or you need to keep all characters at full effectiveness all the time (like Gamma World).

ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost

Mikan posted:

More JRPGs - a genre as plagued by stasis as tabletop RPGs - just have everyone heal to full after every fight, so each fight you have all your resources available and they don't have to balance through attrition. It's a lot more interesting.
I think the bolded part is arguable. The gradual reduction in resources is a mechanic intended to increase tension. It's just tough to find a balance point so that the climax of the arc coincides with when you're on the brink of collapse unless you're really strict about pacing. Which most RPGs are not.

Rexides posted:

I don't see the problem if the only requirement for getting back to full effectiveness is making it out of the fight alive, and someone dropping bellow 0 HP is a kinda rare event.
Ah, then maybe I misunderstood. My read of the proposal was that if you hit 0 you lose some resources in following fights until [something happens] without a player influenced release valve.

I think losing stuff until the end of the fight is a fine idea (and was basically what I meant when I pointed out Gamma World), but you still have to realize that you've just shifted the bounds on your pacing mechanic, so that instead of every five fights your reset is every fight and your release valve is running away. Then again I'm probably pointing out the obvious.

ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost

Transient People posted:

I'm a huuuuuuuuge fan of this system. Lots of people balk at it (just check out how many people yell about regenerating health when it comes to FPS games), but properly done, it makes every battle tense except the ones that are deliberately easy. Death to Dailies!
Yeah, I'm definitely not arguing against this concept. Doing things this way eliminates a lot of tedium and allows the writing to dictate the pace (especially when you also eliminate save points and allow saving anywhere). It worked great for a story driven game like Xenoblade.

But if you were playing a sandbox dungeon delve game where your risk/reward cycle was a question of "how far should I push this trip?" things might work better the other way.

ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost
Good call. That sounds like a sweet setup. Maybe just toss in a way for players to influence Tilt as well (they're pushing hard between fights so increase by one, or they're taking it slow and cautious so decrease)? I really like the power unlocks at certain Tilt levels.

ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost

Transient People posted:

Yeah, Impact's comment really got me thinking about the possibility of controlling Tilt - and I think that's a good way to go about it. Let every character have his own tilt, and adjust to taste - if you don't want to take risks, there's no reason why you should be the one to let your party down because you're afraid - you can just keep your tilt at 0 and roll with your baseline effects. Meanwhile, another character might want to rack his Tilt up to an insane degree, so he'll do stuff that boosts Tilt (like getting KO'd and maybe spending some sort of resource to inflate it further) and deal with the swingy combat.

PS: The best part of this is that it helps solve an issue with a system like 4e's, which is that 'Daily' effects are really really powerful and tend to trivialize fights. If you have to expose yourself to some really major risks to be able to do amazing attacks and cast mighty spells, they're far more palatable - because if anything survives that super strong effect (maybe that Solo you're fighting decided to open the fight at very high Tilt, and thus has access to a No Sell power), you will pay for it. This sort of risky gameplay seems really appealing to me.
Except I almost feel like this needs to have some kind of overarching resource mechanic like healing surges added back in to influence it. There needs to be a reason to interact strategically with the mechanic otherwise it feels like everybody's going to crank up to full tilt ASAP so they can do cool things, except maybe the designated stabilizer whose job is it do heal checks on all the assholes who keep getting their faces pounded in.

I could be wrong though. The devil is in the details.

ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost
They need a badge that says "I enjoyed the fact that others enjoyed that playtest" for those of us that wish we could have helped playtest. :(

ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost
I realize that you jerks probably can't talk about it, but I'm really interested to know if there are some good improvements in this version. I know some of you were riffing off the potential that you saw rather than some of the specific implementation.

(Note: probably treat these as rhetorical since I'm not asking anyone to break NDAs)

Like, is the to-hit/monster math better? Are there MM3 on a business card style guidelines for enemy creation? Is damage still a clunky buckets-of-dice/just take the average thing? If we're going to be sans tools, how much of a pain is making a character by hand?

From what little I've seen so far a tight, easy-to-use mechanical framework is going to make or break whether I'll be interested in actually seeing this hit the table. I'll buy the book regardless if for no other reason than to import some of the cool ideas in it to other games though.

Obviously no offense to you Pelgrane guys. But I figure it's best to be honest.

ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost

fosborb posted:

Most of your questions have been covered elsewhere.
Thanks for the answers, and sorry if they'd been asked before. I must have missed it. It's tough to read between the lines with all the "enjoying this playtest" posts. :v:

And yeah, all that sounds pretty great. I think I'll resume lurking and just wait for the game to come out.

ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost

RSIxidor posted:

Dex/con/wis are excellent stats in this game. Dex and con are used for three stats each (AC, MD, Initiative/HP) and wis is used for two (AC, MD).

At the same time, some attacks that use other stats as their attack stat use strength as their damage stat.

And intelligence is not right out. Both bards and wizards can use it, and I'd be willing to argue they are two of the more interesting classes (at the least the Bard ranks high).

I think the rogue can take advantage of dex/con/wis the easiest, though I suppose Bards with Mythkenner and Clerics could just as well.

Monks used to be able to until they decided monks need strength for their flow attacks. :(
I've not gotten a chance to play yet to see how it works out in practice, but this honestly sounds kinda gross. Why, in 2012, do we still have ability scores and obfuscated, derived stats in a class-based game?

And now that I actually finally sit down and look at the meat of the game it lists rolling as the first method of ability score generation. :aaaaa:

Has anyone been working on any DTAS hacks for this? I've just about had it with ability scores from my last foray into trying to teach 4e. At a glance it doesn't look like it'd be too much work, and at least here there are no digital tools to worry about.

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ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost

RSIxidor posted:

They were preserving traditions while still throwing a lot of things out. Notice that they don't even agree on the method and don't say one is the 'official' method.

The dex/con/wis part is not actually that bad. Those do work towards more things, but all of the stats matter for defenses in some degree, and of course different classes have their attack stats.
Yeah, I was probably overreacting. But after reading Sacred BBQ and OSH (which does have ability scores but greatly de-emphasizes their importance) I'm in kind of a minimalist mindspace.

I'm still not ecstatic about some of the fiddly-ness and the comments about the monk make me wonder if they've got the core math locked down yet, but I'll wait until I've seen it in action to comment any more.

On the other hand, I love everything I've read about the Icons, backgrounds and the OUT. That is some seriously cool stuff that I can't wait to try out.

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