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Arven posted:
That's the whole point of the monitor program. We know in the future that we're going to want the capacity to defend a fixed point in space, so we've begun exploring concepts of ships with minimal engines but fucktons of armour piled on top of a few big missile launchers.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 17:52 |
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# ? Apr 17, 2024 19:43 |
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Minor correction, Monitors are minimal armour too. They're just self-proppelled artillery the size of a cruiser. In space. I'm going to bold this one because people don't seem to be getting it: We will need jump gates because civillians won't use jump tenders. The only way to get McK and Yama to go interstellar is jump gates. No ifs, no buts. We will need our civillians if we want to set up an extrasolar colony, it'll be decades before we can build up a state fleet big enough to do it on its own. UNEC has gone over this and agreed that since we need jump gates anyway, investing in expensive freighter tenders isn't worth it when we can spend that effort on the Monitor program to defend both our jump points and our colonies.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 20:47 |
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Alchenar posted:That's the whole point of the monitor program. We know in the future that we're going to want the capacity to defend a fixed point in space, so we've begun exploring concepts of ships with minimal engines but fucktons of armour piled on top of a few big missile launchers. Would it not be better to just make floating artillery platforms with boatloads of armour and weapons and park a few outside our jump gates? We'd have to research the Tractor beam stuff and make a tug, but I can't see why we wouldn't want to be doing that anyways for the future. Having all our shipyards and critical infrastructure within strike range of Freddy would be a no-no, no?
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 21:42 |
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rizzen posted:Would it not be better to just make floating artillery platforms with boatloads of armour and weapons and park a few outside our jump gates? We'd have to research the Tractor beam stuff and make a tug, but I can't see why we wouldn't want to be doing that anyways for the future. Having all our shipyards and critical infrastructure within strike range of Freddy would be a no-no, no? That's probably a bigger investment. Ideally the long term plan would be to take a decent sized asteroid, move it to the jump point, then drop a base and a load of PDS on it. If that's even possible it's a long way a way from practical.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 21:50 |
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Coolguye posted:But I'd be concerned about putting too many resources into it at this juncture. Just a word of caution. Innocent_Bystander posted:UNEC has gone over this and agreed that since we need jump gates anyway, investing in expensive freighter tenders isn't worth it when we can spend that effort on the Monitor program to defend both our jump points and our colonies. I jut want to point out that we're not speaking about "expensive" investments. All it takes to create freighter tenders is researching a jump engine, nothing more. It is about 700 research points, which is still very, very cheap. In comparison, jump gates are 5000 points. A single active sensor for your military programmes is probably double the cost of the jump engine. Please, give me this engine, and I'll give you an extrasollar colony in less than a year.
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 22:05 |
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markus_cz posted:I jut want to point out that we're not speaking about "expensive" investments. All it takes to create freighter tenders is researching a jump engine, nothing more. It is about 700 research points, which is still very, very cheap. In comparison, jump gates are 5000 points. A single active sensor for your military programmes is probably double the cost of the jump engine. This is a mischaracterization. Firstly, a jump engine for a 37,000 ton jump tender would cost over 2700 RP. Then you have to design the ship that carries it (which must itself be at least 37,000 tons), tool a yard for that ship (if you have one capable of building a ship that size), and build the ships. Yard tooling and ship construction would almost certainly take more than a year. Even were that accomplished, the UN has no colony ships of its own, and only one large freighter. You'd have to build and ship your own infrastructure there. For comparison, the UN devoted its entire merchant fleet to building up Callisto for a long period of time, and that body still has less than 2 million people on it. Callisto is in the same system as Earth. (I will not allow the design or construction of any further freighters with a number of holds that is not a multiple of 5, since micromanaging that is a nightmare).
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# ? Jun 14, 2013 23:09 |
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Arven posted:Putting up a jumpgate takes a lot longer, and they can be used by anyone, regardless of whether not they have any jump technology. If you put up a gate, whats to stop Fred from taking it for himself? The same thing that stops him from taking a jump tender, or, say, a freighter filled with UN troops.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 01:40 |
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Volmarias posted:The same thing that stops him from taking a jump tender, or, say, a freighter filled with UN troops. There's a bit of a difference there. By putting our own jump tender on a gate, we're not blocking Fred from using his own jump tenders to do the same thing. It's a pretty clear demarcation of who owns what, with separate but (relatively) equal usage. It's pretty simple for reasonable people to agree that fair's fair in a situation like that - at worst, we'd have to deal with seeming like a douche for denying Fred usage of our jump tender for peaceful exploration and such. Same issue we had/have every time they ask us pretty please for use of the Lictor. With a jump gate, unless I am mistaken, it's impossible to build a second factional jump gate on the same jump point. So if we build a gate on this JP and then tell Fred he can't use it, then we're basically saying: "The system beyond, and EVERY SYSTEM THAT LINKS TO THAT SYSTEM, is now ours. " That's a far wider claim to make, and not one that's covered at all by our current articles of colonization, so you could pretty much guarantee yourself that Fred would be very angry about this, and would find ways to make it known. Also, tangential note, it's worth noting that even if we work out happy agreements with Fred over a theoretical jump gate, any theoretical hostile aliens would probably not give too much of a gently caress about working out agreements with us before appropriating the gate for an invasion fleet. What I'm saying is we should probably be extremely loving sure that there's no threat in another system before providing an expressway back to Sol, and we should be extremely loving aware of what other expressways could potentially open a pathway to Sol.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 02:05 |
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Coolguye posted:There's a bit of a difference there. By putting our own jump tender on a gate, we're not blocking Fred from using his own jump tenders to do the same thing. It's a pretty clear demarcation of who owns what, with separate but (relatively) equal usage. It's pretty simple for reasonable people to agree that fair's fair in a situation like that - at worst, we'd have to deal with seeming like a douche for denying Fred usage of our jump tender for peaceful exploration and such. Same issue we had/have every time they ask us pretty please for use of the Lictor. When we tell Fred to gently caress off wrt the jump point, are we talking about a game mechanic, or are we talking politically? Because, again, he could seize a jump point just as much as he could seize a jump tender, and if we declared "This is our jump point, get out", we could still open fire in the event that he tries to jump. A jump gate just makes it harder to blockade-run.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 02:09 |
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Volmarias posted:When we tell Fred to gently caress off wrt the jump point, are we talking about a game mechanic, or are we talking politically? Because, again, he could seize a jump point just as much as he could seize a jump tender, and if we declared "This is our jump point, get out", we could still open fire in the event that he tries to jump. A jump gate just makes it harder to blockade-run. The mechanic leads to the political statement, at least in my mind. To elaborate, this is my current understanding of how jump points work. This is gleaned mostly from wiki reading and forum lurking, so it's totally possible this is incorrect, mind you:
So if a jump gate exists, and we say "Hey Fred, no touchy," we are in essence telling them that we are barring their access to the systems beyond. They cannot use the gate that's there, they cannot build their own, and they cannot use tenders to improvise their own access. They have no recourse, so effectively anything beyond that jump point is UN territory. Or alternatively, if they were to do the same thing to us, everything beyond that jump point is Federation territory. We wouldn't take that lying down, so I can't imagine they would, either. If we were to NOT build a jump gate, then we can both use our own tender vessels at will, and we essentially share usage of the jump point. The most awkward situation would be Fred preparing some vessels and asking us if we can have a tender run them through the point so they can scout around. We'd obviously say no, that's silly of you. We would then potentially look like douches. Of course, problem here is that getting civilian commerce involved without a gate is really sketchy. Some folks say if you make a commercial-grade tender that Civs will use the point, but some folks on forums seem to have a lot of trouble making that work. I'm mostly discounting military analyses in this because that sort of thing has its own battery of political and social costs that are impossible to predict far in advance. Certainly, given a certain stimulus, I have no doubt that Fred could be pressured into press-ganging one of our tenders to do a thing for them. But they cannot afford to do that sort of thing for little reason or brazenly for the same reasons we can't. Earth isn't entrenched, and popular opinion on our cradle can still swing and cause serious problems for either side. Also, I'd probably say that having a gate would make it easier to blockade-run, not harder. You'd still have to reach the JP, but you'd need to reach it with a largely dead-weight ship intact. Also, again, and such.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 02:23 |
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Coolguye posted:The mechanic leads to the political statement, at least in my mind. To elaborate, this is my current understanding of how jump points work. This is gleaned mostly from wiki reading and forum lurking, so it's totally possible this is incorrect, mind you: Right, but if we were to declare the area around the jump point as an exclusion zone, that would be roughly the same as saying that our jump gate was off limits. bgreman, can you weigh in on the game mechanic? If we set up a jump gate, do we have to adjust diplomatic sliders before Federation units and civilian craft can use it, or is it available for anyone? Would barring access be a mechanic you'd have to control manually?
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 03:04 |
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I'll see if I can help clear the mechanics up a bit. First of all, jumpgates are one-way. If you create a jumpgate, things can pass through it, but until you send a constructor through to build one on the other side, nothing can pass back. So by creating jumpgate on the Sol side you aren't creating a highway for invaders. Second, nothing restricts their use once they are in place. They are essentially an indestructible one-way portal that once in place anyone can use. So once it is in place, the only thing stopping fred from using it is if we tell him he isn't allowed to (and the willingness to back that up with force of arms). Now, as for the monitor stuff- asteroids cannot be tugged. You *can* create a monitor to protect the gate, but something that huge will be very easy to target from far away. I'm gonna stop there as I'm not sure how much bgreman wants you guys overly informed on game mechanics and suggestions with them in mind. (Maybe I'll stop by IRC and do it there.)
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 03:20 |
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Volmarias posted:Right, but if we were to declare the area around the jump point as an exclusion zone, that would be roughly the same as saying that our jump gate was off limits. Per IRC: <BGreman> just a note <BGreman> ANYONE can use a jump gate <BGreman> no matter who builds it <BGreman> provided yo can get your ships to it Which doesn't really answer my questions about 2 gates/tender mechanics beyond that, but that's the basics of what you're seeing! It's worth noting we currently don't have any diplomatic framework for declaring exclusion zones around jump points, though - we've only traditionally done that on acknowledged colonies as per the Articles of Colonization. Declaring an exclusion zone all by itself might be a thorny issue.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 03:22 |
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Again, I think people are jumping ahead a little bit with our general overall plan, which we've discussed several times already. 1. Right now the focus is on building a small force of Turing jump tenders that can transport our El Dorodos, Panners, Samar/Surigao and theoretically our SWACS and Cape Town through a unstabilized Jump Point since they all have hull sizes equal to or smaller than the Turing. 2. They will explore the JPs that connect to sol and see whats in those systems. If more JP exist then they are to first map out the system they are in, then potentially open the door to future explorations down the chains. 3. Meanwhile, while all this is going on (because thoroughly mapping out a star systems JPs and getting some decent geo surveys done will take some time), we will be building up our fleet to a more modern standard. Right now Cape Towns are starting to get ramped up in production. Meanwhile we need to research the parts to build a Monitor and an SWACS (a long range fire control and size six missile launchers for the former, a big hoking sensor for the later). We also need to finish our missile upgrades and research new missile for the fleet Note that before any other major steps take place for extra solar stuff, we need to have the fleet built up to handle any potential extraterrestrial threats or possible Federation attacks. 4. Figure out how we will potentially exploit extra solar holdings. This is when we'll start hammering down what we want to research for greater extra solar exploration (big jump engines or jump gates). Both have an advantage and disadvantages and we need to suss out what we want to do (personally, I think its more efficient for us to go jump gate rather than jump engines). Again, if we want ot have a solid hold on an extra solar point, then we need our upgraded military, because otherwise the Federation might try and jump us (to expand on that a little bit, our Solar System has only finite resources, and with the rapid build up on Earth, those resources will become more and more depleted. Eventually expansion will be needed, and if we try and block off avenues of expansion, then conflict will happen unless we let Fred have a JP (which I'm fine with, there's one near Saturn they are free to have. However, if we want sole dominion over another point, then we will need a military to back it up, otherwise say the JP near Jupiter is more promising, then we'd be in a poor position to resit should Fred want to go to that one instead. Again, Extra solar holdings are a long term goal, after we get some more of our stuff here at home in order, otherwise we'll be trying to pick a high fruit from a tree while standing on a stool with only two legs). Here again are the blueprints of the stuff we're plaining on making for our people in the navy: code:
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 03:55 |
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To clarify for Arven it's not that NOTHING can return from a JP with a gate only on the Sol side. They can still return via a jump tender (relevant for military ships as civilian vessels as I understand it cannot do this).
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 04:27 |
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Diplomaticus posted:To clarify for Arven it's not that NOTHING can return from a JP with a gate only on the Sol side. They can still return via a jump tender (relevant for military ships as civilian vessels as I understand it cannot do this). Yeah. Jump tenders are weird. They can sit on either side of the jump point and send ships back and forth without actually having to make the trip with them (which means we can potential sit them on the OTHER side where they will be safe, FYI). However, military jump drives can only transport military ships and commercial jump drives can only transport commercial ships. Jumpgates can do both, though. The quickest roadblock that will be run into with the tender method is that gravitational sensors flag a ship as military, so survey of further jump points in the new systems will require additional military tenders or a jumpgate. Just for perspective, I've a dozen games and almost never bother with tenders, exclusively using jumpgates. Tenders are a huge pain in the rear end, and the only reason I suggest them is that I don't see any scenario where we have jumpgates and don't immediately lose them in a war given how aggressive the federation is.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 04:41 |
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Arven posted:Just for perspective, I've a dozen games and almost never bother with tenders, exclusively using jumpgates. Tenders are a huge pain in the rear end, and the only reason I suggest them is that I don't see any scenario where we have jumpgates and don't immediately lose them in a war given how aggressive the federation is.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 04:49 |
bgreman posted:...Built by Jump Dynamics, a spin-off of General Dynamics... This has always seemed a little funny to me. Jump Tech is at the blackest of black level projects, right? So, is there a nondescript building in Pasadena between Intel's campus and Northrop-Grunman's skunkworks with a "Jump Dynamics" sign hanging out for all to see? -Col Arrath.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 05:28 |
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From a fluff based perspective, I've always pictured jump drives (in Aurora) working as follows: (spoilering just in case). Imagine that space is a gigantic blanket or bedsheet. Solar systems exist on the fabric of that sheet in various locations. To travel from one to another conventionally, you are basically like an ant or a dust mite walking across the surface of the sheet. It will take you a long time to travel that huge distance. However, there are some places on the sheet where you are able to fold the sheet in on itself and simply walk across, thus ending up thousands of AU away from where you started while having only moved a little bit. For a more terrestrial example, instead of flying thousands of miles to get from Boston to Shanghai, you simply manipulate geography so China is right outside your door and then you just walk a few blocks over there. Jump Drives are necessary to make that fold happen -- they produce the energy necessary to perform the manipulation. But once the fold takes place, any ship can cross through. And since the start and end point for the fold are fixed, the tender that initiates the fold can be on either side and remain there "holding it open" while its conventional buddies putter on through. A jump gate just becomes a structure that does this on command instead of a ship.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 06:11 |
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Arven posted:I'm gonna stop there as I'm not sure how much bgreman wants you guys overly informed on game mechanics and suggestions with them in mind. Generally I prefer that if mechanics are going to be posted, it is done in-universe if its before I make a mechanics post about the topic. However, see below. Arrath posted:This has always seemed a little funny to me. Jump Tech is at the blackest of black level projects, right? Jump Theory is a natural follow-on from Trans-Newtonian mechanics. The existence of companies attempting to build a viable jump drive is not a state secret. The existence of a functioning jump drive probably is. Diplomaticus posted:From a fluff based perspective, I've always pictured jump drives (in Aurora) working as follows: This is generally correct, although a Trans-Newtonian rift (a.k.a. "jump point" or "wormhole") doesn't fold/warp normal spacetime, it tunnels through the void dimension(s) to link two remote points. Component Design: Jump Engines Jump engines allow ships to traverse jump points, as well as bring ships along with them. They essentially work by holding open a wormhole big enough for the ship and any others it is transiting to jump through. Jump Drive Efficiency (a researchable tech line) and Jump Drive Size determine the maximum size of a ship the jump engine can support. For military jump drives, the max size of ship (in hull spaces; 1 HS = 50 tons) is given by Efficiency x Size. In the example above, the Jump Efficiency is 3 and the Drive Size is 15 HS, so the max transitable size is 45 HS (or 2250 tons). For commercial drives, it's a little different. The efficiency of commercial engines is 0.75 x the Efficiency tech, but the size is multiplied by 10 compared to the size listed in the dialog. The max ship size is thus 0.75 * Efficiency Tech * Size * 10, and this is then rounded to the nearest 10 HS. Max Jump Squadron Size lists the number of ships the ship with the jump drive can bring along with it. For military drives its as shown, but commercial drives reduces the squadron size by one. NOTE: A jump ship can transit other ships up to the max size rating of the jump drive, or the size of the jump ship itself, WHICHEVER IS LOWER. This means that if you put a jump drive rated at 2250 tons on a 2000 ton ship, the max size ship the jump ship can support is 2000 tons. If you put a jump drive rated at 2250 on a 3000 ton ship, the jump ship won't be able to jump itself (though I believe it should still be able to transit ships 2250 tons or less). Also note that to perform squadron transits, a jump drive must be above a certain size threshold. I believe it is 15HS for military and 150HS for commercial (i.e., listed at 15 HS in the dialog). Jump drives smaller than this threshold will only allow the ship mounting the drive to jump. No companions may come along. Max Squadron Jump Radius is the maximum distance the task group containing the jump ship will appear from the far side of the jump point after a combat transit. It is halved for commercial jump drives. Since jump points are good choke points, increasing this value will allow your combat ships to appear further away from the jump point, which may be useful if an enemy is camping the jump point itself. Military vs. Commercial In addition to the differences listed above, a ship whose non-jump engines are flagged as military cannot transit a jump point using a wormhole generated by a commercial jump drive. Military engines create instabilities in the wormhole stabilization field generated by a commercial jump drive and collapse it. On the other hand, commercial-engined ships can transit a wormhole opened by a military jump drive, but this scenario is pretty rare. Military jump drives tend to only support smaller ships, and ships with commercial engines tend to be larger than the capabilities of the military jump drive. Note that it is not the ship's commercial/military designation that affects this, it is the type of non-jump engines mounted on the ship. Any ship with a military engine is a military ship, but there also exist military ships with commercial engines, and you could feasibly put a commercial jump drive on a military-flagged ship. Transiting a Jump Point There are two ways to transit a jump point: a standard transit and a squadron ("combat") transit. In a standard transit, the ship with the jump drive transits all the ships in its task group one by one and then jumps itself. This is assumed to happen instantaneously, but note that it allows you to transit more than the "squadron size" rating of the jump drive. However, transits run this way cause the ships to emerge right at the other end of the jump point, instead of some distance away. This type of transit basically allows for routine jumps and avoids the player having to manually handle the shuttling of ships and tenders back and forth across the jump point. A nice anti-micromanagement feature of the game is that you can place a jump-capable ship on a jump point, and then any task groups can standard transit that gate without having to have the jump-capable ship in the task group. (Of course, all the ships in the jumping task group must be within the jump size limit of the jump-capable ship). This works even if the jump-capable ship is on the far side of the jump point at the time (but it must be AT the jump point, on one side or the other, at the time the transiting TG tries to transit). Note that civilian ships will not use jump tenders placed for this purpose, at least in the version of the game we're playing. Squadron transits are effectively "combat" jumps limited to only the ships in the TG, and also limited to the max jump squadron size of the jump drive. When executing a squadron transit, the jump ship and its companions emerge on the far side of the jump point at some distance (up to the max jump radius rating of the drive). As noted, this may allow the squadron to evade any static defenses on the far side of the jump point. I'm not 100% positive, but I believe that if you have multiple jump-capable ships in the task group, then the game is smart enough to allocate jump ships appropriately to TG members. Jump Blindness The tremendous energies involved in a jump transit play havoc with the electronics on void ships. This causes fire controls and active sensors to stop functioning for an amount of time after the jump has been conducted. Engines are not affected, so ships can still move immediately after jumping. The jump blindness period can be reduced by crew training. First, the grade multiplier is calculated (the multiplier is basically 100% - the ship's grade bonus): Multiplier = 1 - (integer_part(sqrt(grade_points) - 10) / 100). As an example, UNS Berlin has 881.3 grade points due to its accumulated training (not task force training, which is different). Thus its multiplier is 1 - (integer_part(sqrt(881.3) - 10) / 100) = 0.81. The delay is then calculated. For squadron transits, the base delay is 10 seconds + a random number between 1 and 20 seconds. For a standard transit, the base delay is 120 seconds + a random number between 1 and 60 seconds. This is then multiplied by the multiplier above. Thus, for a squadron transit, the delay is anywhere between 11 and 30 seconds (121 - 180 seconds for a standard transit), and then multiplied by multiplier. For the Berlin, with its multiplier of 0.81 delay would be between 9 seconds and 24 seconds (98 - 146 seconds for standard). Remember that the max grade bonus of a ship is 34%, so the minimum multiplier would be 0.66, and thus the minimum possible delay time for a squadron transit is 7.26 (round up to 8) seconds (80 seconds for standard). Since the game basically can't proceed in intervals less than 5 seconds, the practical minimum delay for a squadron transit is 10 seconds. Note that in those ten seconds, bad guys on the emergence side of the jump point can be lighting you up. Jump blindness is a big part of why you'd want to perform squadron transits, since the blindness period is so much lower. If you know for sure the far side of the jump point is safe, a standard transit will suffice. Jump Gates Jump gates basically permanently stabilize the wormhole, allowing any ship to do a standard transit. Squadron transits can be conducted using task groups of any size. Jump gates are one way, i.e., you need a gate on both sides to enable two-way travel. Jump gates are constructed by ships with jump gate construction modules on them. These modules are very large. Currently the UN is capable of researching the Jump Gate Construction Module - 180 (5000 RP), which is 1000 HS (50,000 tons) and can construct a jump gate in 180 days. The tech line proceeds from there, each module being capable of constructing a gate in less time, but for a larger module size. There is also a one-off "small" construction module research project (2500 RP). This module is only 500 HS (25,000 tons), but takes 360 days (one Aurora year) to complete the gate. Civilian shipping lines require jump gates before they'll send their ships to other star systems on trade runs or civilian contract fulfillments. It should also be noted that once constructed, a jump gate cannot be destroyed (it isn't so much a physical object as a permanently stabilized wormhole), and any ship (friend or foe) can use it, provided it can reach the gate. Some jump points already have ancient jump gates on them when discovered. I'm not sure whether this is learned when the JP is discovered or when you approach to within some active sensing range of the JP. bgreman fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Jun 15, 2013 |
# ? Jun 15, 2013 07:34 |
Coolguye posted:Also, tangential note, it's worth noting that even if we work out happy agreements with Fred over a theoretical jump gate, any theoretical hostile aliens would probably not give too much of a gently caress about working out agreements with us before appropriating the gate for an invasion fleet. What I'm saying is we should probably be extremely loving sure that there's no threat in another system before providing an expressway back to Sol, and we should be extremely loving aware of what other expressways could potentially open a pathway to Sol. This however is subject to change with actual exploration of a wormhole. I hate to be metagamey, but the game setup was a thousand systems and a 1% chance of generating an NPR. We will probably have to venture 50 systems out before we even stumble across wrecked alien ships. In all likeliness, we wont see aliens for a drat long time. The Eurasian Federation will be our primary aggressor for the next two IRL years.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 09:02 |
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Kommando posted:I hate to be metagamey, but the game setup was a thousand systems and a 1% chance of generating an NPR. We will probably have to venture 50 systems out before we even stumble across wrecked alien ships. I must humbly disagree with your study's findings. TN technologies allow for travel between vast expanses of space in an instant. Even if the potential number of alien races in the galaxy with access to TN technologies is very low the few that do exist have the power to extend their reach far across the stars. Just because their homeworld is potentially very far from our own does not mean the borders of their empire could not be right next door. Game spoilers - do not read if you haven't played Aurora before I also hate to be meta-gamey but there is an option to set the number of NPRs that will exist at the start of the game. Not to mention Precursors, Extra-galactic invaders and Star Swarms. Bgreman has not revealed whether he activated these or set the NPR at start to something other than 0. MagicBoots fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Jun 15, 2013 |
# ? Jun 15, 2013 09:11 |
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UNSA design team has developed an alternative monitor design.code:
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-Faster missiles, better to hit chance. -200 tons smaller, can begin manufacturing earlier when the shipyard is online. -Significantly less time required for researching the sensor prototypes. -Could add a third armor belt to be roughly the same size as the current Monitor design. Cons -Less range on missiles (can be adjusted later as missiles can be redesigned.) -Sensors are less fine grained, can only target a gunboat size target at 24 million K rather than full range. However this is still twice the range SWACS can see a target that small. -Slower Monitor speed. Artists conception of the new Belisarius Class Monitor. Saros fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Jun 15, 2013 |
# ? Jun 15, 2013 09:22 |
Jimmy4400nav posted:
The range of the new missiles is 70m kms. The range on the fire control is 96.6m kms. This is a waste. The Monitor FCS v2 can probably be 1 to 2 HS smaller to make it more in line with our missiles. Unless this is for futureproofing the fleet where we will have 90m km range missiles of Size 6 or less it is unnecessarily large and a tax on the engines.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 09:23 |
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^^^ That is essentially futureproofing for when missiles have ion engines.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 09:26 |
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Saros posted:^^^ That is essentially futureproofing for when missiles have ion engines. It also helps offset ECM. Generally it's a good idea to have your sensors outrange your missiles by ~20%.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 10:06 |
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The proposed alternative is nice, though again I would prefer it to be able to hit the smaller targets, if only to ensure some security, but I do realize we can't have everything. Also it's been brought to my attention that the engines for the Cape Towns have not been built yet, with that in mind, I'm authorizing a transfer of 4% production from infrastructure, maintenance facilities, naval shipyard complex and commercial shipyard to crash build our engines (this will give it the requisite 16% needed to produce enough to make our deadline for starting Cape Town production.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 10:14 |
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Unless I have forgotten completely I don't think the CT missile has been designed yet. I will get right on it after the necessary missile techs are done. Thoughts on modernising Samar/Surigao missiles?
Saros fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Jun 15, 2013 |
# ? Jun 15, 2013 11:05 |
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bgreman posted:This is a mischaracterization. Firstly, a jump engine for a 37,000 ton jump tender would cost over 2700 RP. Then you have to design the ship that carries it (which must itself be at least 37,000 tons), tool a yard for that ship (if you have one capable of building a ship that size), and build the ships. Yard tooling and ship construction would almost certainly take more than a year. Even were that accomplished, the UN has no colony ships of its own, and only one large freighter. You'd have to build and ship your own infrastructure there. Thanks for the RP correction. I was basing my numbers on my version of Aurora (6.20), so perhaps the costs have changed? 2700 RP seems quite expensive for a small civilian tender, though - are you sure about it? But as for the shipyards, we have two of them of almost the right size that haven't been used yet, and they can be retooled immediately. So when I said we could have an extrasollar colony in less than a year, I don't think it was an unrealistic estimate. Perhaps add 3 more months just to be sure. TO: UNEC ET AL. Shame about us having almost no freighters and no colony ships, but we have just begun building them. I know my proposal isn't that valuable in long-term, but it's intended to be an intermediary solution. The main plan now it so spend several years researching and building a new fleet, then building jump gates. This is a good plan, but again, it might take up to 3-5 years before we set any colonist on any extrasollar planet then. My proposal only requires us to spend a couple of weeks of research time, perhaps a month or two, before we reroute all research to the new fleet. By postponing the fleet programme a couple of months, we get perhaps as much as 5 years of low-burn, yet continuous colonization. Isn't it worth the few months?
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 15:26 |
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markus_cz posted:Thanks for the RP correction. I was basing my numbers on my version of Aurora (6.20), so perhaps the costs have changed? 2700 RP seems quite expensive for a small civilian tender, though - are you sure about it? And as for the shipyard: It will take Sydney Shipworks 2.5 years to reach 37000 tons.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 18:22 |
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Oh. EDIT: For my defense... Steve Walmsley posted:Jump Drive Changes Seems like jump engines have changed recently to be a much more viable option, and that's the background I was coming from. Sorry of any confusion. markus_cz fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jun 15, 2013 |
# ? Jun 15, 2013 19:07 |
Yeah Marcus. V6 changed so much. It's incomparable. You might have to ask nicely to get a v 5.2 game just so you can design stuff.
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# ? Jun 15, 2013 23:40 |
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Imp in IRC had a sandbox save floating around here somewhere. Let me see if I can find it in my logs.
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# ? Jun 16, 2013 00:43 |
Coolguye posted:Imp in IRC had a sandbox save floating around here somewhere. Let me see if I can find it in my logs. Cheers. It'll be a big help. === about two weeks ago i spawned an NPR so i could test my combat designs because i'd never met another race before. built a fleet and sent it at their homeworld. the fight took 2 IRL weeks and I got ruthlessly butchered. I now know a lot more about combat, system design, missiles, CIWS, FCS. However I cannot seem to SM look at their ship designs to see how they differ to mine. There really needs to be an Aurora general thread.
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# ? Jun 16, 2013 00:59 |
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I don't think they took down the links, you should be able to find a 5.x install and the appropriate selection of patches with a search through their forum?
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# ? Jun 16, 2013 01:27 |
Ceebees posted:I don't think they took down the links, you should be able to find a 5.x install and the appropriate selection of patches with a search through their forum? I was hoping for a UN save with all the designs.
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# ? Jun 16, 2013 02:02 |
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(hey all! i was away for a bit, but im back now and ready for shenanigans. Also i am Raw_Beef. There is a guy named Slow_Beef. total conicidence.) Luna 30th January 2034 Raw_Beef stared out of Shrike's duraplex viewscreen, gazing at the crater floor and the high walls that formed the ancient impact zone's edge from his captains chair. The ship had been sitting there since the end of the Machu Pichu Conference. They'd painted the ship a chaotic grey and black pattern when it had been in pressure dock, and now it was virtually invisible to the naked eye. With her engines powered down and no electromagnetic or radio emissions, Shrike was as close to invisible as a ship could get without some science fiction cloak device. "The conference..." he muttered to no one. The Captain had gone to Machu Pichu full of energy and excitement. He was going to see TildeATH again, and make his case to the assembled people for the spirit of freedom and frontier that this new independent colony would kindle in the underclasses of the world. His grand entrance had gone according to plan. After that it all became a blur. For some reason Raw_Beef could not remember, he'd changed his mind very quickly after his arrival, and spent the rest of the time drinking heavily and trying to score with anything in heels. He couldnt remember getting back to his ship. XO Alexandrov had told him Vasu had to arrange for a shuttle and ensure he got back home. Vasu had stayed with TildeATH. Then he remembered. His fists gripped the armrests of the captains chair till his knuckles turned white. TildeATH was pregnant, and she didnt say it was his. She hadnt said it wasnt his, but the mere question implied a whole world of things that Raw_Beef didnt wish to confront again, so he pressed the thoughts down with a struggle of will and brought his mind back to the topic at hand. Raw_Beef was sitting in command of the fastest, most stealthiest armed ship ever made. The ship had been complete for weeks now, and the men who'd deemed fit to be his beneficiaries this far were now getting cold feet. There had been no contact from anyone representing UN interests since the delivery of the sensor suite. The Captain's back channel inquires as to why were able to give unspecific statements from UNEC members regarding some kind of "trial mission to establish crediblity before arming the privateer Raw_Beef" The Captain managed a thin smile at that. "You cant hand a man an empty gun in a universe of bullets, then turn your back, and expect that gun not to end up loaded somehow" he said, again speaking to his empty command cockpit. "well, i guess the UNEC has a few more days to figure out what they want from me." he thought as he pressed send. The encrypted key signal sped at the speed of light via direct-beam to an orbiting Luna relaysat, and from there dissapeared. Raw_Beef had no physical proof of who was waiting for that signal, but ever since the scrap of paper with the adress had arrived at his dockside office months ago, he'd had a firm feeling in his gut who was on the other end. He was usually right.
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# ? Jun 16, 2013 03:57 |
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Kommando posted:I was hoping for a UN save with all the designs. Well, there's the installer to make the game work, and then there's saves to run in it. I had a reasonably useful save a few months ago. Territory and Leaders weren't synced up, but techs and designs were. I've let it decay, though, and i don't really know how to package it for use. I might be able to get it back up to speed and package it in the next couple weeks...
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# ? Jun 16, 2013 10:56 |
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Zip the stevefire file, (get somebody to) host it somewhere, share the link.
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# ? Jun 16, 2013 12:48 |
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# ? Apr 17, 2024 19:43 |
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Raw_Beef posted:Shrike activation Alright! Nice to see that the Shrike is operational! Before we do anything, I want one detail clarified: The Shrike is under the purview of the intelligence teams, and therefore can be given orders by them, correct? I don't want to be put on trial for seizing powers that I only thought I had.
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# ? Jun 16, 2013 19:10 |