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  • Locked thread
ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Onmi posted:

Not even once. For one, Federation pilots could and did pilot Zaku's with no trouble. For another, the Learning Computer plot point was dropped almost immediately, since the idea behind it was it would grow and learn how to pilot the RX-78-2 on its own. The point of taking Amuro's combat data was to immediately have programmed movements for the GM series, which was something Zeon had as well, after all the Guncannon and Guntank had no Learning Computer and maneuvered completely fine in the hands of non-newtypes.

In short, it's not even a minor update, it's a nothing. It's an excuse as to why no other person on the ship can use the Strike. And in the SRW setting it's even dumber, even discounting the Super Robots that all share varied control schemes and Aestivalis which need an uplink, and the Mobile Fighters and presumably mobile suits like the Butler Bentoussen which is not piloted by the Mobile Trace System. Ignoring all of those, there's still the Armslaves, which all move and are controlled perfectly fine by utterly normal human beings, yet there's no explanation why the Federation so desperately needs the Strike. Or why MS are so superior that Naturals can't pilot them.

And even in SEED Destiny, even if there's an OS for every natural pilot, it doesn't change the fact that naturals are so stupid they need dedicated OS to use Mobile Suits.

No, you're still wrong about this.

For one, every mobile suit in every Gundam continuity (including G Gundam) runs off a computer system which handles combat movement for them. The exact amount and details vary from setting to setting but this is an established part. This isn't about being 'stupid' or whatever, it's just how the giant robots work. They have computer systems running their stuff. The Learning Computer specifically was capable of adapting and improving the Gundam's movements based off Amuro's combat data and in turn the Learning Computer's data was transferred to the GM Types which didn't have the ability to automatically adjust for their pilot but did have the pre-learned combat information from the White Base suits and their own computers, just not Learning Computers. That's the entire point of it in fact. Even ignoring the learning computer, there's no Gundam which doesn't have some form of computer-assist, ranging from basic targeting and movement adjustments to Zero Systems.

The minor update is that SEED assumes that this stuff is still in development. Again, it isn't that Naturals can't pilot mobile suits at all. It is that they can't pilot mobile suits with enough precision, speed and skill to keep up with a literally superhuman opponent. As soon as the OSes are finished than the plot point is dropped because they have now reached rough parity with any other setting. Trying to paint it as "man, they're so stupid they can't pilot without a computer" is silly because it isn't like Heero Yui is piloting his robot with pullies and leavers. We literally see that Sandrock has its own combat OS for example.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 13:32 on May 6, 2014

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Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


GilliamYaeger posted:

...Guess who completely misread your post?

Happens to the best of us.

But yes the real problem with using the original Anime is the Federation has no Mobile Suits. So any series you use along side the Gundam, specifically that can be mass produced? Cannot be better than the Original Gundam, or cannot debut before it.

Because the Gundam's unique property was A. portable beam weaponry and B. One of the federations first 3 Mobile Suits.

Now I would add the addendum property "That can also operate in all-terrains" since it handles space, earth and even water with ease. Because if you add that then say... include Full Metal Panic? Well Armslaves aren't space-capable, and the M6 is not exactly the best piece of equipment. On-top of that, you can claim certain governments allied with Zeon, giving them Access to suits such as the Savage. which really evens out the playing field. Why is the Gundam so important? Because there exists no Armslave that can do what the Gundam can, even the M9 coming up is made solely for ground combat.

Here you achieve series cohesion.

Problem 2 becomes the plot of 0079. That is that everyone on Side 7 who could have piloted or who was in command died, leaving an Ensign at age 19 in charge of a ship of crewman and civilians. Therefore, Amuro HAS to fight, because if he does not, the White Base will be shot down by the foes that hunt it.

Now then lets look at SRW J, because SEED had the same problem, and the game really failed to address the issue. In J when you finally get the Strike you have

The Original, Mazinger Z, Aphrodite A, Blue Earth, Layzner and two other SPTs, Combattler V, 5 Aestivalis, And the Nadesico. Or in short. A lot of forces. Private yes, but consider this. The Strike is ridiculously important as a Mobile Suit, if the Earth loses it, they basically lose the war since they lost the other 4 Gundams. They don't have Mobile Suits and Zaft has been kicking their rear end. The Strike is their last hope.

And their justification for deployment is "We can't trust them, because they may want to protect themselves more. So instead lets send out this civilian kid with no real combat experience in this weapon we absolutely cannot lose, rather than hold him in reserve until the last second.

It's an excuse to send him out of course, but from a logic and story standpoint? No sense. W gets around this by having the SEED crew not be apart of your group, and thus on their own.

However, if SEED had happened when your army was say... Mazinger, Original and Aphrodite, now suddenly there's much more of a need to send out the Strike, you are hopelessly outnumbered and you need every available unit.

Same thing with 0079, if you do it, it needs to be really early, or travel completely separate to your group, otherwise why are we sending out such a valuable machine with a civilian pilot, when we have all these guys to do the job?

And yes, I spend a lot of time thinking about stuff like this, half because it's my field of study, and half because of hobby.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Onmi posted:

Happens to the best of us.

But yes the real problem with using the original Anime is the Federation has no Mobile Suits. So any series you use along side the Gundam, specifically that can be mass produced? Cannot be better than the Original Gundam, or cannot debut before it.

Because the Gundam's unique property was A. portable beam weaponry and B. One of the federations first 3 Mobile Suits.

Now I would add the addendum property "That can also operate in all-terrains" since it handles space, earth and even water with ease. Because if you add that then say... include Full Metal Panic? Well Armslaves aren't space-capable, and the M6 is not exactly the best piece of equipment. On-top of that, you can claim certain governments allied with Zeon, giving them Access to suits such as the Savage. which really evens out the playing field. Why is the Gundam so important? Because there exists no Armslave that can do what the Gundam can, even the M9 coming up is made solely for ground combat.

Here you achieve series cohesion.

Problem 2 becomes the plot of 0079. That is that everyone on Side 7 who could have piloted or who was in command died, leaving an Ensign at age 19 in charge of a ship of crewman and civilians. Therefore, Amuro HAS to fight, because if he does not, the White Base will be shot down by the foes that hunt it.

Now then lets look at SRW J, because SEED had the same problem, and the game really failed to address the issue. In J when you finally get the Strike you have

The Original, Mazinger Z, Aphrodite A, Blue Earth, Layzner and two other SPTs, Combattler V, 5 Aestivalis, And the Nadesico. Or in short. A lot of forces. Private yes, but consider this. The Strike is ridiculously important as a Mobile Suit, if the Earth loses it, they basically lose the war since they lost the other 4 Gundams. They don't have Mobile Suits and Zaft has been kicking their rear end. The Strike is their last hope.

And their justification for deployment is "We can't trust them, because they may want to protect themselves more. So instead lets send out this civilian kid with no real combat experience in this weapon we absolutely cannot lose, rather than hold him in reserve until the last second.

It's an excuse to send him out of course, but from a logic and story standpoint? No sense. W gets around this by having the SEED crew not be apart of your group, and thus on their own.

However, if SEED had happened when your army was say... Mazinger, Original and Aphrodite, now suddenly there's much more of a need to send out the Strike, you are hopelessly outnumbered and you need every available unit.

Same thing with 0079, if you do it, it needs to be really early, or travel completely separate to your group, otherwise why are we sending out such a valuable machine with a civilian pilot, when we have all these guys to do the job?

And yes, I spend a lot of time thinking about stuff like this, half because it's my field of study, and half because of hobby.

It is unarguably a forced plot point when it shows up in SRW because the existence of other robots makes it hard to justify the concept that a in-development robot is particularly special, and so any attempt to justify it is going to involve either stretching or seriously rewriting the pilot. It is, unfortunately, one which will continue to show up because "reluctant pilot forced into a bad situation by terrible situations" is a common mecha trope. It's really really hard to justify keep tossing Shinji Ikari into battle when Mazinger Z can punch through an AT Field by hitting it really hard and honestly nobody should be deploying Zeorymer under any circumstances at all. God forbid Bokurano ever gets in.

They can certainly attempt cohesion but to some degree it just isn't possible because so many of the shows are based around the idea that these pilots are forced into this situation through extreme circumstances. You also have to make sure the game is actually fun to play. I'd play SRW Shitpiles Only but a lot of people probably wouldn't, and in the terms of what SRW considers important, character interaction ranks above mechanical cohesion most of the time. (Barring J which is honestly just not a very good SRW.) The best they can do is only limitedly use the series that are really difficult to work with and that does come with the unfortunate side effect of "no kicking anyone in the face with the RX-78-2 except in very rare games."

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 13:43 on May 6, 2014

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


ImpAtom posted:

It is unarguably a forced plot point when it shows up in SRW because the existence of other robots makes it hard to justify the concept that a in-development robot is particularly special, and so any attempt to justify it is going to involve either stretching or seriously rewriting the pilot. It is, unfortunately, one which will continue to show up because "reluctant pilot forced into a bad situation by terrible situations" is a common mecha trope. It's really really hard to justify keep tossing Shinji Ikari into battle when Mazinger Z can punch through an AT Field by hitting it really hard and honestly nobody should be deploying Zeorymer under any circumstances at all. God forbid Bokurano ever gets in.

They can certainly attempt cohesion but to some degree it just isn't possible because so many of the shows are based around the idea that these pilots are forced into this situation through extreme circumstances. You also have to make sure the game is actually fun to play. I'd play SRW Shitpiles Only but a lot of people probably wouldn't, and in the terms of what SRW considers important, character interaction ranks above mechanical cohesion most of the time. (Barring J which is honestly just not a very good SRW.)

Oh I agree, it's again just something I discuss a lot because half of it (that being story/gameplay interaction and narrative cohesion) is my study (In broad terms). Of course it's important to still make the game fun, and to make the characters interact properly, which is why I love the Z and Alpha games. Enough to actually buy a $90 copy of Z1 when it first released (Oh Aussie currency) and not regret it.

Montegoraon
Aug 22, 2013


Plot points like that are something SRW does tend to struggle with. I suspect that's why they seem to really like Z's sort of dimensional fusion plot. For all the trouble they pose, CE mobile suits only make sense if they're greatly superior to other units in some way, even though they tend not to be. Full Metal Panic has a similar problem. Arm Slaves from FMP are required for plot reasons to be the most advanced pieces of equipment in their settings, because the technology used to create them literally comes from the future. But so far SRW has avoided dealing with that by only going as far as The Second Raid, even though the novels and the manga are now complete. Still, the series list for Z3 says it'll cover The Second Raid, so maybe in Z3.2?

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Montegoraon posted:

Plot points like that are something SRW does tend to struggle with. I suspect that's why they seem to really like Z's sort of dimensional fusion plot. For all the trouble they pose, CE mobile suits only make sense if they're greatly superior to other units in some way, even though they tend not to be. Full Metal Panic has a similar problem. Arm Slaves from FMP are required for plot reasons to be the most advanced pieces of equipment in their settings, because the technology used to create them literally comes from the future. But so far SRW has avoided dealing with that by only going as far as The Second Raid, even though the novels and the manga are now complete. Still, the series list for Z3 says it'll cover The Second Raid, so maybe in Z3.2?

The preview for Z3-2 seemed to be hinting at "Continuing On My Own" which is awesome. I want my ARX-8 Laevatein.

Gyra_Solune
Apr 24, 2014

Kyun kyun
Kyun kyun
Watashi no kare wa louse


...a PV for 3-2 already? Or do you mean the little tidbits of teasing at the end of 3-1?

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Gyra_Solune posted:

...a PV for 3-2 already? Or do you mean the little tidbits of teasing at the end of 3-1?

The tidbits teasing. Specifically The FMP part looks to be the ending to 'Continuing on my Own' where the Arbalest has been torn apart and Sousuke is ineffectively shooting Leonards AS with a hand gun as he kidnaps Chidori. It's not quite the same scene but it's pretty heavily hinted at.

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE



Nirvash specV
Skills
Prevail L5
Break Will Limit
Will+ (Hit)
Spirits
(Renton)
Invincible - 15
Gain - 20
Strike - 20
(Eureka - SP Regen)
Scan - 1
Attune - 25
Mercy - 10
Trust - 25
(Nirvash)
Accel - 15
Focus - 15
Vigor - 20
Faith - 45
Traits
Jammer
HP Regen M
EN Regen M
KLF
Weapons
Staff (20 EN)
Bit Laser (8 ammo, 110 will, size)
Ace Bonus: Renton's, Eureka's, and Nirvash's max SP +30.
Full Upgrade Bonus: Jamming Unit.
Custom Bonus: Gains HP Regen (M) and EN Regen (M).

I'm not proposing to actually use Renton seriously, but to be fair, this is his last gasp at relevance.


Guren Type-02 (Karen Koutsuki)
Skills
Prevail L6
Morale
Will+ (Hit)
EN Save
Chain Actions
Spirits
Guts - 25
Invincible - 10
Strike - 20
Guard - 20
Valor - 35
Soul - 60
Traits
Radiation Wave (barrier)
Blade
Weapons
Flying Fang (6 ammo)
Grenade Launcher (10 ammo)
Class 2 Type 2 Cutter (12 EN)
Radiation Wave Emitter (28 EN, barrier, size)
Ace Bonus: 1.1x damage using Melee weapons.
Full Upgrade Bonus: Barriers/armor consume 0 EN.
Custom Bonus: +500 attack to Radiation Wave Emitter.

Karen is solid on offense and defense, supplemented by her great Spirits, but her weakness is always going to be that the Guren is a gas guzzler. Many times when she runs down on EN, it's a combination of spamming the radiation wave and tanking hits with Guard, draining her power into the defensive emitter. I've attached an EM receiver antenna and an Yggdrasil Drive to the mech.


Orguss (Kei Katsuragi)
Skills
Fortune
Attack Again
Counter L7
Ammo Save
Ignore Size
Spirits
Focus - 15
Sense - 15
Accel - 10
Luck - 30
Weapons
Hit (10 EN)
Missile (12 ammo)
Missile Gun (15 ammo)
Alpha Strike (9 ammo, 110 will)
Ace Bonus: When adjacent to a female pilot (ally or enemy), deals 1.2x damage.
Full Upgrade Bonus: Jamming Unit.
Custom Bonus: +300 attack to all weapons.

And Kei. I've criminally underused him, but I do like him. In Z3, he's back to his role as a crusher of enemy formations (albeit two at a time rather than three), and he has a subpilot! For now, he's an okay harrier, but he's small and fragile.

The xp curve in Super Robot Wars is pretty generous, so he'll probably catch up quickly enough.


Ptolemaios (Sumeragi Lee Noriega, Lasse Aeon, Lichtendahl Tsery, Christina Sierra, Feldt Grace)
Skills
Command L4
Share Parts
Repair Skill
Spirits
(Sumeragi)
Alert - 15
Trust - 25
Guard - 25
Assail - 35
Hope - 75
Awaken - 80
(Lasse)
Vigor - 25
Strike - 20
Spirit - 40
Fury - 30
(Lichty)
Accel - 15
Gain - 20
Exhaust - 50
Fury - 60
(Chris)
Scan - 1
Analyze - 30
Cheer - 30
Luck - 40
(Feldt)
Focus - 20
Invincible - 20
Bless - 40
Rouse - 50
Traits
GN Field (barrier)
Repair
Weapons
GN Missile (25 ammo)
GN Beam Cannon (10 EN)
Ace Bonus: Doubles the effect of the Command skill.
Full Upgrade Bonus: Armor +10%.
Custom Bonus: Doubles HP healed using Repair.

The Ptolemaios is an incredibly bad warship, but it's a good medic and comes packed with a long list of great Spirits. I see no reason to try to make it any good at shooting.


The Great Gurren (Dayakka, Leeron)
Skills
Spiral Power L2
Guard
Offensive Support L2
Prevail L4
Spirits
(Dayakka)
Vigor
Invincible
Strike
(Leeron)
Scan
Accel
Alert
Weapons
Sub Gun (12 ammo)
Main Gun (8 ammo)
Ram (20 EN, 110 Will)
Great Gurren Gang Rush (50 EN, 130 Will)
Ace Bonus: At 130 Will, casts Assail at the beginning of each phase.
Full Upgrade Bonus: Movement +1.
Custom Bonus: Docked units recover 100%.

The Great Gurren, on the other hand, simply does not support. It does get one useful thing the Ptolemaios doesn't, which is the ability to completely recover a unit's HP and EN with only one turn of docking, as opposed to, like, ten. Use it for Giga Drill Break Special.


Macross Quarter Fortress Mode (Jeffrey Wilder, Bobby Margo, Catherine Glass)
Skills
Command L3
Defensive Support L2
EN Save
Hit & Away
Offensive Support L1
Spirits
(Jeffrey)
Strike - 20
Trust - 30
Invincible - 15
Spirit - 40
Fury - 30
Assail - 35
(Bobby)
Vigor - 25
Accel - 20
Mercy - 10
Luck - 40
Valor - 40
(Cathy)
Scan - 1
Gain - 20
Guard - 25
Analyze - 30
Hope - 70
Traits
-
Weapons
Anti-Air Cannons (18 ammo)
Anti-Armor Beam Cannon (12 ammo)
Macross Cannon (32 EN, 110 Will)
Ace Bonus: Adjacent S. M. S. members gain +20% Accuracy, +20% Evasion.
Full Upgrade Bonus: Weapon range +1.
Custom Bonus: Docked units recover 100%.

Now if you want it all, there's the Quarter. And this was also the first ship we ever saw, so it's come an extremely long way.



Two years ago, "Setsuna F. Seiei" joined Celestial Being. Allelujah couldn't believe he was so young; Tieria couldn't believe Veda selected him, but there it is. Lockon, however, can see the fire in his eyes; both of them want to use their Gundams to fix the world...



But let's talk about the Imáge! Again. Their appearances have been falling off over the last few years; why are they coming out in force right now? And what's at the South Pole? Are they preparing for some sort of final battle with humanity, wonders Sheryl?

The truth is, the Imáge have intelligence, but we don't really know much about what makes them tick. Common wisdom says they want to exterminate humanity; maybe they've spend these past years gearing up for their assault?

Alto has to apologize to Sheryl and Ranka; they'll have to stay with us a little bit longer while we address this. They both tell Alto to go do what he has to do.



Eureka has a different view, one that Tifa shares: the Imáge are curious about humanity. Eureka feels that the Imáge are responding to the changes taking place in the world. Could they have given up on humanity because of the Imperium and what it says about our arrogance - and resigned to kill us all?

ZEUTH has met creatures very much like the Imáge, though by a different name. They had fled into another dimension when their own was in danger. Maybe the Imáge did indeed give up on humans, and fled our world as well.



And seeing what effect the Imperium has had on the world - even looking at Alejandro Corner - Crowe kind of can't blame them for being saddened by humanity's arrogance. He's not saying humanity has this coming, but the Imáge may well feel that's the case. But even if they were right, even if everyone in the world was irredeemable, Renton refuses to take that without a fight - "I'll defend this world so I can live in it together with Eureka!"

To be honest, Crowe feels the same way. Not about Eureka, he hastily clarifies, but even if the Imáge were right about humans, he's got this thing he'd say to them: "So what?" And he knows everyone in GOONZ feels the same. Not one of them believes that humanity deserves to be eradicated, however low they can sink. And we certainly don't need the Imáge's help to deal with the Imperium.



Even Setsuna, who's back on his feet. He's come to a conclusion: "As long as we exist, we live. Carrying on the wishes of those who are gone, facing the world in their place. I am not a god, but I will do this." Allelujah and Tieria realize that if Lockon were here, he would definitely put up a fight. "That's right!" chirps his Haro. "That's right!" We can't argue with that, can we?

Which brings us back to what Crowe told Renton earlier, that maybe the Imáge were right. Gainer and Garrod explain to him that Crowe was testing his resolve. He and Eureka, after all, hold the key to this battle.

Eureka expands on that: she's going back to the Imáge so that from her, they will see humanity's good side - kindness, compassion, love. She has to pass on to them everything she experienced with GOONZ. This is how she can protect the ones she loves.

And it's our job - especially Renton's job - to protect her so she can do what she has to.



Michel and Feldt both miss Lockon, but both of them are determined to carry him on and fight in his place.



"Your personal army, GOONZ, is off to save the world once more," quips Zero.

"Not for a moment have I ever considered you mine," says Elgan.

That's good, because while Elgan Roddick may have brought GOONZ together, Zero says every child leaves its parents one day. Jeffrey and Sumeragi come to back him up: they're grateful he formed GOONZ, but they're fighting for what they believe in now.

"All I have ever wanted for you," says Elgan, "is to fight in defense of this world and all its people." Zero can tell he's being completely honest about that, at least. Elgan backs up his promise with a proclamation that GOONZ is now an independent task force; he will guarantee their executive independence in the hope that they will fight for justice, and he appoints Zero as its commander, giving him the power to summon and mobilize GOONZ at will. Zero accepts, but says it's mostly for show; he has no intention to use GOONZ to liberate Japan when he has his Black Knights.

Elgan has places to be for now; he has to join Treize and clean up the mess Alejandro left with the U. N. Forces. The matter of the Imáge is left to GOONZ, and Zero.



The other commanders look to Zero for his first order, but Zero is better than this. He says that GOONZ means too much for him to command personally, and anyway, he doesn't put too much stock in the Chairman's little games.

But I truly believe I speak for everyone here when I say...
GOONZ will mobilize to the South pole and stop the Imáge invasion!



Holland is well-informed on the Imáge's operations - informed by Ime Liard, who knows quite a lot about them. Most relevantly, that they are the key to Holland's goal. He can use them to transform this world into Neverland. But to tell them to do that, he'll need Wendy and Peter - Eureka and Renton. Once GOONZ inevitably comes to stop the Imáge, he'll take Eureka and Renton. Then it will be up to Ime to keep his promise and cause the Dimensional Quake that will enable them to rewrite reality.



Something's still bothering Holland. He's all in to this plan - he's been for years - but he still can't understand why Ime would help him. Ime smoothly explains that Holland is causing GOONZ' hearts to waver. He doesn't particularly care if Holland rewrites or even destroys this world.

"Because you have the power to transcend the dimensions?" asks Holland.

"Let's leave it at that," smirks Ime. "But GOONZ, the Singularities, are becoming a thorn in my side. This is a good opportunity. I will lend you my forces."

Really? Well, neither the big man nor the Great Axion is going to be at the pole - Gaioh doesn't care for it - but he'll do what he can. The rest is up to the children.



Ime leaves a bad taste in Holland's mouth, but he tells Talho to rest up - he knows she hasn't been feeling well. The Imáge will handle GOONZ; all he has to do is take Renton and Eureka. He's leaving the Gekko behind; it'll be easier for him to move without them, he says. But it's obvious he's worried about Talho, and his goal here is to take them to Neverland, "a world for us, where time stands still" - even if he has to destroy this world to do it. But he doesn't seem to notice how sad Talho looks as he goes to deploy...


Chapter 49: Rainbow



So we find this thing at the Pole.



Eureka says it's sort of the Imáge's nucleus. The make a long story short, it's where she needs to go.



But the Imáge definitely aren't going to let her get there without a fight! Renton swears on his life to get her there, and it's up to the rest of us to protect them both!



I mean, within six turns, if at all possible.



Here's the wide view of the stage; there are quite a few Imáge to go around.



But very soon, Chris detects something else approaching - something equipped with one of the fake GN Drives...



"I've missed you so, Gundam!"

Graham still has it out for the Gundams for killing his men, and he's still going on about how he and the Gundam are fated to do battle. He is in love with the Gundam's power, but he's gone beyond love and into hatred!



On top of that, here's Holland, who's come for the Nirvash in his 303 - now with some kind of huge booster attached to it. He demands Renton come with him quietly, and of course, Renton refuses.

GOONZ tells Renton to fall back so Holland can't get him, but Renton's not backing down from Holland now. He and Eureka will fight together! Graham mutters that Holland, too, has found hatred on the other side of love. Like Holland, he's got eyes only for Setsuna's Gundam, and Setsuna is happy to respond in kind.

Imáge, this is humanity. You may think we're arrogant, selfish creatures...
But we're always struggling as hard as we can, living for all we're worth!
So... that's your answer, Renton?
That's too bad! It's almost tragic!
Holland... you...
Come on, Renton! I'm fighting to survive!



So it's end of the first turn and there's already a change of plans: shoot down the Terminus 303 SP.



Skipping around the huge mass of Imáge noise...

You're twisted!
You did this to me! It's the Gundam's fault!
I have to defeat you! Whatever happens to the world, this is what I want to do!
But you're part of the world!
Then I speak for the world!
Wrong! You're only doing this out of arrogance! I will cut out the distortion in you!
That's what I want to hear, Gundam! En guarde!








Setsuna's damage bonus is still bearing returns.



Holland only advances.

There is no point to this battle.
Colony Gundam! There is no such thing as a pointless battle! Life itself is an unending battle!
Then I will end your battle and your arrogance.
If you can! I won't let anyone snuff out the light of my life!





And that's when Graham gets his Ace bonus:



At 30% HP, he casts Love. Whoops!







It's not hard to burn off his Alert and Valor, though.

Lockon Stratos... I... we will fight!
We are Gundam!






The loot is a Hyper Jammer. I'm glad that didn't trigger at any point while I was fighting him.

Howard... Daryl... I...

What was that?
Another form of the world's distortion?
But... we're the ones who created it...
If so, then I...

Anyway, on to Holland?



Holland's Terminus 303 is equipped with a thing also called the Super Pack. It makes it incredibly fast and great at airborne combat. Of course, Holland only has his own natural skills, and despite the SP being a secret you get by scoring Holland 70 kills (trivial when you're on a third play), as an enemy right now, he doesn't have an Ace bonus, even on Hard.




It's really too bad, Renton! I thought we were alike!
There's no way! I don't think I've ever caught up in my past or tried to manipulate other people!
Manipulate? Don't be stupid! We've been fighting with all we've got!
How would you ever understand? How it feels to have your chance to love, hope, and dream stolen away?
You... you'd never understand!
No, I don't! But I know that what you've done and what you're trying to do is wrong!
So we'll stop you! Eureka, Nirvash, and me!






Holland drops a Vernier.



Six levels and the only new Spirit on the team is the Nirvash's Exhaust. Oh well.



Holland isn't ready to give up - he's spent too long being manipulated and abandoned!



Against Holland's instructions, Talho's brought the Gekko. Holland swears to her again that he'll have the Holy White One for her. "You guys recreate the legend for me!"

He activates the Compac Feedback System, hoping to get a lock on Renton's vital signs, but what he discovers is something he didn't expect...



A second life sign within Talho - his, and this is the first he's heard of it.

I'm sorry... but if you knew, you would have given up... on your dream...
I know you would!
!
...
You want to have it, don't you?
Yeah...
Didn't I tell you that my only future is the future you want?
I'm sorry... I'm sorry... I'm so sorry...
Holland... human biology is the strangest thing. Yours and Talho's baby... it's growing at a normal human rate.
What?
It's growing independent of its mother's growth rate. It will be born a perfectly normal, healthy human.
So...
Our misfortune...
Won't pass on to the next generation.
Doggie... Kengoh...
Talho told us everything....
But you'd already blasted off...
You even took that Super Pack...
You guys...
When we look at your kid, this world doesn't seem that bad, does it? Almost...
Holland, I want it to see.
I want our child to see the world its mom and dad lived in...
...
Holland.
Me too.
Holland...
A new life... a baby...
That's quite enough of that.
!



Are you kidding? Cheval barks that Ime wishes us gone - and he will carry that wish out! This is Marguerite's last chance to show her loyalty!

Crowe's doubting again, and Ime senses it with glee. It's too easy to make him waver - isn't that how he drew out his Sphere's energy?



But Holland refuses to fight for him anymore. He's sick of Ime's lies, and he's found something new he's got to protect! He'll join us in defending this world and fighting the Imperium!



The Gekko is out of here, though. Talho tells Holland not to die, but at this point, why would he?

As for Cheval, Crowe's got a bone to pick with him.

Crowe Brust, I see you for the man you are.
You put on a farce of swaying in the wind, but at your core is an unwavering will. That's why...
That's enough outta you, rear end in a top hat. I'm not listening to another word you say.
...!
Ime Liard.
I've had just about had it with you. We're going mano a mano today.



New goal: shoot down the Emeraldan!



Oh, and I do have the Terminus. It's not upgraded. I guess I'll pack it away on a ship.



Hey, Sakuya adds another Valor onto Dancouga Nova.



I really don't like this field, but the enemies are all Panicking, so it could be worse.





Renton finally gets Valor, and a couple of levels later, Assail. (The Imáge are really focusing on him.) Eureka learns Hope, useful to have on a pilot with SP Regen, I suppose.



Bulldamons are seriously the worst.



And five thousand DAMons later, it's turn 3.

It's going to be a long mission.



I'm going to focus on Marguerite, I think. By which I mean I'm going to skip to having Crowe disable her, I think.

En guarde, Crowe Brust!
You're trying pretty hard to put your energy into that. So you're still in denial, huh?
Silence! What do you know about me?
I definitely know that you're forcing yourself to fight!
!
Tell me you really want to avenge your brother and I'll fight you...
But I'm not about to be your punching bag for you to unload your stress on!
Silence... silence! I... I won't...
You can barely even form a sentence. Fall back!
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaahh!
Quit being stubborn already! This is why I can't stand women!






Not yet! I cannot fall yet!
Give it a rest, Marguerite. You lose.
Silence, Crowe Brust! I can still fight!
Keep going and you're guaranteed to die.
Then... then I'll die... I've lost my master, my friends, my brother...
I have nothing left...
Don't be stupid.
Hm?
So you've lost your master, your friends, your brother, but you're still here.
You may have lost everything else, but you've got your life. That's something, isn't it?
Crowe Brust...
My buddies are putting their lives on the line! Don't tell me your life is nothing!
What is the matter, Marguerite? Carry out your mission as an Archsaber!
Sir Cheval... there is no longer any meaning in our title of Archsaber.
What did you say, Maaaargueriiiiiiiite?!
Tell me to die and I will... but I cannot fight in the name of Gaioh or Ime any longer.
How dare you! Do you know the meaning of what you're saying!
If I must fight, I will fight as an Archsaber... in the name of the Kingdom of Insaraum!
So my enemy is the Imperium! Ime Liard and Gaioh, King of Destruction!



Marguerite...
Do not bandy my name about! I am a Knight of Insaraum - Marguerite Pistail, Archsaber!
I forgot my honor as a knight to preserve my own life... but that fool is now dead!
I swear to my fallen liege, my friends, my brother... that I will fight for truth and justice until I breathe my last and my dishonor is wiped clean!
All right. But don't die, Marguerite.
My life has meaning now! I will not die easily!
Marguerite... MAAAAAAAAAAAARGUERIIIIIIIIIIIIIITE!
Sir Cheval... I will never, ever forget my debt to you from Insaraum.
But that is one reason I must defeat you... as an Archsaber!




Pearlnail (Marguerite Pistail)
Skills

Predict
Offensive Support L3
Chain Attack
Resolve
Spirits
Sense - 15
Spirit - 30
Bless - 30
Valor - 40
Hope - 50
Traits
Shield
Weapons
Willful Archers (2 ammo, 125 Will, map, size)
Valkyria Spinners (10 EN)
Faithful Archers (8 ammo, mobility)
Bloom In Heaven (40 EN, 110 Will)
Ace Bonus: 1.2x damage dealt on counterattacks.

Marguerite is destined to be a good support pilot, of course (hey, she's got Hope at 50 points) - but only for another stage and a half. And she only comes at 30% upgrades. It'd have been nice if Pearlnail took its numbers from the Brasta, but oh well.



Moving on, Kei gets Love!



Shinobu fills out Dancouga's Spirit list with Zeal. Aoi gets that for free!



Next round is Cheval's turn.

(Lockon... we will carry on your wishes.)
Feldt... we all feel the same way, you know.
Chris...
We've got to fight harder for him...
All right! I'll do my part!
His wishes are all of ours. We will keep fighting.
Because we are Celestial Being.
Right!



Ugh.



At least some of these Damons are finally dying. (All the enemies do need to be finished in those six turns...)

My Lord Ime wishes for your demise, Crowe Brust!
I think I got that signal loud and clear.
So you sic anyone he points you at like a good lapdog, right?
That is my duty! And my priiiiiiide!
You're not like Marguerite at all, are you?
Then I don't have to hold anything back for you!






Ouch.





This isn't going to be pleasant.



So here we are, halfway through the chapter; the Imáge are being annoying, but right now I really have to knock down Cheval Reptail. The poor bastard hasn't much left to say, so...

MAAAAAAAAAAAARGUERIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITE!
You shouted at me like that a lot back in Insaraum, I recall.
But it was with pride and dignity... the very model of a knight.
I have not changed! It is only you who are different nooow!
Sir Cheval, I will not forget my debt to you until the day I die...
It is with that gratitude, and the honor of an Archsaber, that I strike you down!











Cheval's last words call for Ime and Gaioh, and he drops a Soul of Steel.




Marguerite pleads with him to stop. If he's truly an Archsaber, he'll join her fighting against Gaioh - the one who destroyed their world!

Cheval protests that Insaraum is dead, and it's only by following Gaioh that they can live on. They don't have Insaraum anymore, only the Imperium - and if she doesn't understand that, she should just leave!



Ime quite disagrees - what she needs is punishment.



The only fitting punishment for her now is death, he says -



and Cheval leaps in to defend her. He gasps that Marguerite remembered the honor of a knight - what he should have remembered himself. That his only loyalty lies with the Kingdom of Insaraum...

Ime's somewhat bemused that Cheval thought he could lie to him. But based on Cheval's wounds, his charade is over...

Sir Cheval... you gave up your own honor to survive, so why now...
You... need to ask...? To save... the life of... my comrade...
But...
I'm sorry... Marguerite... for all I've done to you...
But I... I had to do this... even if it meant... lying to you...
That's enough from you, Cheval. Let us begin with the punishment for your treachery.
Silence, Ime Liard! I strike at you with the last of Emeraldan's and Cheval Reptail's strength!
That's good, Cheval...



Oh, crap.



Ime kindly steps out of the way, and all of Cheval's pent-up rage at Gaioh comes spilling out. Gaioh grins savagely. "Now you're finally worth eating!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSvhvrqos3c

A new warrior is born.



As Cheval reels, Gaioh roars, "Cheval Reptail! Your power and soul are mine!"



Ime explains, helpfully, that Gaioh's Revival Cells are absorbing both Cheval and the Emeraldan. Cheval croaks out a final admonition to Marguerite, never to forget her honor and her courage. "And to you, warriors of GOONZ, look upon me... and see the figure of failure!"



Marguerite calls desperately for Cheval, but it's no use. A DAMon has no trace of the person it once was - just like her brother. Marguerite confirms it for the rest of us - every DAMon the Imperium used was once a soldier of Insaraum, including M. D. - her brother, Chene. Ime sneers. "It was entirely your choice to convince yourself that an engine of destruction without will or sentience was your brother."



Shut up, Ime.
I have been waiting for those emotions to burst forth from you. That is your true--
I'm done with you snickering at our problems.
And I think I just said I'm not giving a poo poo what you say anymore.
Crowe Brust...
Come on, Marguerite! We're not going to take any more of his bullshit!
Indeed...
Oh, that's perfect. Everybody's getting stronger here.
Don't you dare run away, Gaioh!
Run away? Who do you think you're talking to?
Or did you forget what I did to you last time?
Ugh...
Dammit...
Well, so what? Sorry my memory's so awful.
And I'm not the type to stay down when I'm down...
Oh?
He's right! We've been building up our strength so we could defeat you!
Gaioh! We owe you big time, and we will pay you back!
And we will topple the Imperium and stop it creating war!
Heh. Looks like I was spot on. I knew you guys would come out this world's champions.
Because we broke through the U. N. Forces?
So that's the tournament he meant!
Well done. But I'm not going to eat you guys until you can satisfy me personally.
But you'll have to beat Ime first.

Gaioh leaves, but we've got another reason we absolutely have to take him out - he could turn this entire planet into DAMons! But Ime Liard stands in our way...



And he's getting more incoherent by the second. Crowe's got the right idea - it's not worth listening to a word out of his mouth!

But this update has gone on pretty long, so I'm breaking it off for now. I've got to leave myself room for all the words of righteous fury that Ime Liard deservedly has coming to him.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013



So, if Cheval sounded like he was going to join up with you here before Gaioh cockblocked him, that's because he was in an earlier draft of the game. This gets revealed further via digging into the game's audio files (both here and I believe the sequel as well) where certain bosses like Zuul and Gaioh have unique dialogue lines for fighting Cheval if he was a player unit. I really have no idea why they opted to kill off Cheval instead of letting him live, other than the usual "the script changed as development went on" reason.


But enough about the interesting stuff, let's wrap up the nonsense that is the Eureka 7 movie. UGH. The whole revelation about Talho being pregnant? Yeah, by this point in the film, Holland already KNOWS this. This makes his fight with Renton come off as even dumber in the film, if you can imagine. I really can't say much else to this, except that I am GLAD the E7 movie is now over and done with. Sadly, its appearance in the sequel is literally to have movie Nirvash again as a playable unit. Which, as this game has shown us, is absolute crap when compared to its TV incarnation seen in Z1. Well, at least we don't get the actual movie ending, where Renton get seriously injured fighting Image and is about to die, so Eureka sacrifices literally everything to let him live in a parallel world together, presumably the "Neverland" the Gekko crew has been ranting on about. And by "everything", I mean Eureka is reduced to a completely naked girl who can no longer talk outside of random gibberish. And Renton has absolutely no objections to the girl he loves being turned into this state. At all.

gently caress the E7 movie.

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011



Man...

That sounds remarkably stupid. But hey, it's over! Time for the endgame!

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

AradoBalanga posted:

gently caress the E7 movie.

You know I agree the movie really isn't that good but your memory of it is even worse. I mean wow.

Literally the only thing you got right was Eureka getting brainwiped, and that's such a major event that I guess I can understand that being the only thing you remember.

BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 05:57 on May 16, 2014

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013



BlitzBlast posted:

You know I agree the movie really isn't that good but your memory of it is even worse. I mean wow.

Literally the only thing you got right was Eureka getting brainwiped, and that's such a major event that I guess I can understand that being the only thing you remember.
I could have sworn the whole bit with Talho's kid happened earlier in the film's timeline. Then again, I'll admit to blocking out most of the film because of just how bad it is.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



And yet the ending of the E7 movie is still somehow less dumb than Eureka 7 AO.

GilliamYaeger
Jan 10, 2012

Call Gespenst!


ImpAtom posted:

And yet the ending of the E7 movie is still somehow less dumb than Eureka 7 AO.

At least Ao had decent mech designs and badass older Renton. Even if it was a complete clusterfuck.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



The most useful spirit Nirvash learns is exhaust anyway, because it gets like five castings of it at 30 SP each. That is enough to turn off any of the big skills that superbosses tend to have. I swear that thing is useful, even if you have to turn animations off to use it because MOKYUUUUUUUU.

Brunom1
Sep 4, 2011

Ask me about being the best dad ever.



: The hell is this...? Do you even Lift?!


At least we got that nonsense done and can move on to more important things - like Ime going all-out crazy!

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



There are so many things I want to say about Ime and all of them have to wait. It is unbearable.

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE




The current goal is to defeat every enemy, now including Arietes - and...



There's absolutely nothing special about the Chevaldamon - it's a Dinodamon like any other we've fought, though Dinodamons are fairly special in their own right. The endgame database entries reveal that Damons were created from Insaraum's foot soldiers and their mechs, while Bulldamons were commanders. Rhinodamons are those with the potential to become Archsabers (the King's personal knights), and Dinodamons are, like Cheval, actual Archsabers or units with the equivalent power and talent.

Anyway, there's your Insaraum history lesson for the day.

Oh, and I think it bears mentioning that the process of converting a manned unit into a DAMon is called "Violation."



Speaking of Archsabers, Marguerite's been shuffled up to where the bosses are.



I'm trying to get everyone up to her, but it's a fairly wide map and I've had to bounce from one side to the other twice now. Geez.



Oh hey, Nia has Hope.



Ime's going straight for Crowe, by the way.



Uh oh.

I've been waiting for this day, Crowe Brust...
Well, I'm tired of your face. Always sneering down at everybody...
I apologize if it bothers you, but it's simply the way I am.
I know you wouldn't understand, but...
This world's full of people who fought for their lives and their beliefs, and died fighting!
And people who died dancing on your little puppet strings!
And what of them?
You know what, getting mad at you would just be a waste of energy.
Heh heh heh... that fiery passion... that is what I wanted.
Today, I will be one step closer to my long-desired goal!
Is that why you summoned Gaioh and wrecked the world with your Imperium?
If I said yes, then...
I don't actually care to hear your answer. Whatever excuse you gave, I'm still going to crush you...
A man who loved freedom and a man who wanted peace... I'll crush you for them!
Buckle up, Ime! For the first time, I'm fighting because I'm mad!



You have your ancestors to blame.



Whew.



no what



Meanwhile...







I'm sorry, Cheval.



Two rounds to clean the map!



Ime's Arietes is mostly as we've seen it. It's equipped with a DM Adapter S, which is an S-Adapter that also makes him faster by two squares, and he has an Ace Bonus: At 20% HP, he casts Panic.



Karen, of course, has nothing to say to Ime, so I'm putting her on Rhinodamon cleanup duty.

Photonic energy! The power of a demon! Its wielder will bring ruin to the world!
Do you really think anyone believes you at this point?
Even if you weren't lying, I'd never let Mazinger be a demon!
I'll use my power for good! Like fighting against you!





This isn't going to be hard at all, huh?





Eh.

Come on, try one of your lies. We'll see if it can make us flinch.
I only speak the truth. In fact, I shall now foretell where your own paths will lead.
Soon, you will reunite with someone you do not expect. This person is...
That's enough. I don't want to spoil the fun, now, do I?
Right now, all I've got in mind is beating you... and paying you back for all you've done to us!





Would you like to know why spacetime quakes only occur in Japan?
What?
Human arrogance damages the dimensional wall and pours energy into it. It is the evil of the Japanese that--
Cut that out! Your lies won't work on us now!
We'll shut up all your lies for good!




Ime Liard! Whatever lies you spin, you won't budge my heart an inch!
Where... where does he get this conviction?
The sun shines its light on all! And its radiance is by my side!
Then allow me to shroud you in darkness with my Arietes...
I know what Spheres can do! And I'll fight yours with all of my and Daitarn 3's power!






So we're done, right? It doesn't even matter that he's in Panic time. Time for a words dump.

Three minutes until the world ends...
What?
That's the reaction you wanted, right, pants-on-fire?
I see. My lies will not work on one like you who acts on instinct alone.
Glad you get it. So come on, let's tangle!
But you should know I have no patience for liars and traitors!

This is the last lie of yours we're ever going to hear. And we're not even going to miss them.
Heh heh heh. You're in Earth WILL's thrall now, so I suppose there's no saving you.
I hope you don't think you're going to stop us with a lie like that.
We're not here because WILL or F. S. ordered us to.
We're fighting to destroy what needs to be destroyed... and protect what we have to protect.
All of us are together on this.
And now we've come this far, you're not turning us back. Here we go!
Let's go wild, Ime Liard!

You could have used the Imáge to return to your own world...
...
Oh, will you lend me your ear, then?
Are you crazy? There's no way Touga would ever listen to a bad guy like you!
What?
Eiji is right, Ime Liard! I have only one response to one with a heart as twisted as yours...
I will defeat you, defeat the Imperium, and restore peace to this world!

The Machine Angel Aquarion. Is that really your power?
Th' hell do you think you know? You think you can shock us?
It doesn't matter if you believe me or not. I will bury the Legendary Machine Angel before it can awaken.
Who cares about some legend? I'm just going to punch you because I think you reek!
You stink of bad guy so hard I think my nose is going to fall off!

If you only asked, I could use my power to reunite you with Kamina.
Really?
Somewhere in a parallel reality, he lives. I could summon him--
No way!
Simon...
My bro's dead! Dead people died, so they're dead!
But he's still alive! In my heart... in all our hearts!
And if you think you can just replace him, you have no idea what being alive means!
So there's no way I can trust you!

(quick comment: pretty much all the attacks so far that I used to snag these conversations? They would have just finished him if I didn't reload.)

Heh heh heh. No matter how much you flail, you'll never be a match for your father Charles zi Britannia.
He knows who I am...
Relax. Join me and I will keep your secret.
You think that's all it will take to make me break?
Then...
I will end you before you can finish! The world has no place for a cur like you!

Chirico Cuvie, your existence is a miracle brought about by a kink in causality itself.
Say the word and I will show you how to use your power to the fullest.
No.
Then, Proto One's whereabouts--
Can you afford to blabber like that?
I have no intention of listening to you anyway.

You've been making us hesitate with your lies too long!
You are just as guilty for letting your own heart waver between two women.
Wh...
We are the same, you and I. You don't live as yourself, but playing a role someone else desires of you...
Your existence itself is a falsehood. Only lies...
Wrong! I fly the way I want to!
My anger is my own, and so is my will to take you down!

I've seen some dirtbags in my travels, but not one of them was as pure evil as you.
I'll take that as a compliment.
And that's what makes you so evil! Why would I even want to talk with someone like you?7
I'm afraid you're quite wrong to think my power is in lies alone. Behold the power of Arietes and my Sphere!
I'll pass! I'm going to catch you and make my way back to our world!

Ime Liard! You're the one that put Holland up to all of that!
Please, don't misjudge me. I only helped them on their own quest.
If I am the villain here, it was their mistake not to refuse my aid.
Then I'll stop you... I can't let you worm your way into someone else's heart!
I can't let you loose in this world Eureka lives in!

With my power, I could reunite you with your sister.
You won't fool me!
Mayu's dead! How dare you use the dead to bargain!
I see you're angry. But I am not lying, you know.
My Arietes will send your soul to join your sister!
You're still saying that?!

His mind... it's like a maze with no exit, getting more complex with every moment...
So you touched my mind. But you have also seen my power.
My lies won't work on you... so I will mangle you with force.
Using the power of your Sphere? But I won't let you finish me!
We've got to defeat the Imperium! When we're done with you, we're moving straight on!

You Colony Gundams persist in your pointless fight...
Though you have no proof that Elgan Roddick is telling the truth.
Do you think you can make me doubt like that?
You are an enemy to the whole world. I will shoot you down.

Heh heh heh. Don't you want to know what your future holds, Celestial Being?
...
I have looked through the dimensional veil and seen into the future. Celestial Being will fall, and you and your comrades will be scattered.
I'm not listening to you.
Even if you were telling the truth, I would keep fighting until this world has peace.
That is my fight... Gundam's fight!

Newtypes, a breed of humanity with the potential to understand one another without misconceptions...
I don't suppose my lies would have any effect on you.
Ime Liard, we have some questions to you. Come out of your mech quietly.
So I'll have to use the power of my Sphere born from lies on you.
My Arietes is enough to crush you easily even if I cannot fill you with doubt.
His Sphere... is more advanced than Rand's or Setsuko's...

But this once, the boss's head will go to...

You finally come seeking revenge after all this time? It's almost amusing, Marguerite.
I'm all too aware... nothing can ever make up for what I've done, not even this.
Still, my honor demands this as my final charge... a battle with you, and with the King of Destruction!
Do you really feel that way? Then I will show you what it means to die like a dog.
Sir Cheval... Chene... my lord, my brothers! Grant me the strength to strike him down!










Marguerite learns her last Spirit, Awaken.

It's not so! On the noon when the stars fall, the shrouded sorrow at the bottom of memory will boarc lantion asefioqwupegfhiau...
Of course! The envoy will gather the hearts of Sol and all the cosmos... hahahaha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
He's still got it in him to fight?
And his nonsense is making even less sense now!
Is... his mind completely broken?
Then let's put him out of his misery. I'll make it quick.
I'm afraid not.



False Black Sheep. It seems you've succumbed to your Sphere's power.
Asakim Douwin!
That must mean what's happening to Ime...
ZEUTH should already know what happens to a Sphere bearer as their Sphere awakens.
You mean what happened to Setsuko's eyes...
Or how Rand was in pain when he unleashed his power...
Those were the dooms borne by the Sorrowful Maiden and the Scarred Lion.
Doom?
The False Black Sheep's power comes from the lies people tell. When it awakens, the bearer becomes unable to tell the truth, or even anything with meaning.
Roger said that Spheres have an effect on their bearer's bodies...
So that's why Ime tells all those lies?
Ime Liard! I claim your soul!







!
Farewell, False Black Sheep!



Ime Liard...
Too bad for you, Crowe. I took his Sphere.
I don't care about that. I just wanted to finish him myself.
Sorry.
Hey, Asakim! We needed that guy to get back to our world!
Don't you swoop in and take him out!
Your world? You don't have your own world anymore.
What does that mean?
Didn't I tell you? You're Accursed Wanderers, just like me.
Why, you--
Asakim, you're going to tell us everything!
Crowe, I'll claim your soul next time. You're not worthy yet.
Awaken more of your power by then, Wavering Scales!



What an rear end in a top hat. The others look at Crowe worriedly - it's not like him to be so intense - but he's okay for now. He just regrets not getting to finish Ime Liard himself. "But I guess we'll see how well your lies work in Hell."



So what did I say, six turns? It's just the fifth, and what we've got left is cleanup and Chevaldamon. And of course, most of GOONZ' turns haven't really been taken.



I'll skip to just the Dinodamon.

I suppose there's no point trying to call you back, Cheval Reptail.
All I can do for you is stop them from using your power and your soul any more.
We were enemies, but I can still pay my respect to your honor and conviction.





Sir Cheval... you're no longer with us, are you?
I still don't know why you did what you did.
But I do now understand what I must do as an Archsaber...
Sir Cheval! I swear on my honor as an Archsaber - I will strike down this DAMon!




Sir Cheval...
Once you're a DAMon, the only thing left is an animal's death...
Dammit! This is disgusting!
Crowe Brust...
Stay with me, Marguerite! If you want to do right by Cheval, live long enough to stop Gaioh!
Of course!
(Sir Cheval.. I still don't know why you pretended to swear fealty to Gaioh...)
(But I will carry on the honor of the Archsabers. You just rest in peace.)

Farewell, Cheval Reptail. May your soul, indeed, bloom in heaven.



And that was a multi-play 100% run of Super Robot Wars Z2. But of course, it's not quite over yet.



Also, Eureka and Renton are finally free. Eureka is still scared, but Renton is... oh, you know how this goes.



No, actually...

(Renton... I'm still so scared...)
(I know the world is still full of fear and evil...)
(There are a lot of good people, too, but I think of all the things bad people have done to me...)
(But it's okay. Because... because I met you, Renton. And many other people.)
(The time I spent with you and with them are precious to me... my treasured memories...)
(I'm going to give all that, all those memories to the Imáge.)
(But I don't mind losing them. If I can change the Imáge with my memories... if it will let you and everyone else live longer...)
(I don't even mind not being myself...)
(Renton... if you can keep living, keep dreaming, I'll stay alive in your dreams.)
(That's my dream... my only wish...)
Eureka?
Goodbye, Renton. I love you.
Wh...
Let's meet again in our dreams.
Eureka?



Eurekaaaaaaaaaa!





Renton wakes up outside the Nirvash, still at the pole - and Eureka is with him. He's so glad that the Imáge are gone, and it looks like humanity's saved. But Eureka doesn't have any words to give back to him. She just wails wordlessly...



Holland explains that Eureka transferred all her memories to the Imáge. She won't remember anything, not even Renton. However mad we may be (but are we, really?), of course, Holland knew this would happen, and of course, so did Eureka.

Tifa stops Garrod from going postal on Holland. Eureka made this choice of her own free will, to protect Renton and everybody else. Even so, there had to have been another way...



Nia begins to sing Aimo. Not because she thinks it'll bring back her memories, but because the only thing she can think of to do is to sing the song she and Eureka sang together.

Ranka joins in. She may not have known Eureka herself, but she knows all the stories she heard from Renton, and how he feels about her. And she sang that song with Eureka too, to protect everybody...

One by one, everyone begins to sing.



And Eureka remembers - the song of joy, everyone who sang it with her, and Renton, who never left her side.

So the day is saved, and at last, Holland realizes what the kids really did - never stopped fighting, never gave up, and that's what brought about the miracle. He, too, will fight to the end so the whole world can have a happy ending as well. Even after he dies, as long as the world keeps turning, there will be those who can carry on his spirit. Just like those who have already fallen left their goodwill to us.

There's only one thing standing in the way of that now - the King of Destruction, creator of DAMons. Finding him won't be easy - the Great Axion has vanished off all sensors. Why would they hide now, after they went around and made so much noise for this long? Did they really lose that much of their DAMonpower today? Or do they have something major up their sleeve? Even Marguerite is in the dark about their long-term plans - if they even have long-term plans, since in her experience, they just do whatever Gaioh says. Is it even possible to predict that guy?



Traia thinks she's got a lead - Carlos Axion Jr.? Apparently he ditched the Imperium, fearing for his own life, and he's our best chance of getting a real insight into the Imperium's movements. And if we can track them down, we can finally challenge them to a final battle with the future of the whole world at stake.



The Great Axion is actually floating over the Pacific, and Shioni is really nervous now that Ime and Cheval are gone. Gaioh is not impressed with her panic, nor her putting the Great Axion into stealth. She begs Gaioh to destroy GOONZ himself; with us and the UNF destroyed, the Imperium will be invincible.

Gaioh was just about ready to chew us up anyway, of course, but there's one thing he has to do first. He orders Shioni to take the ship to the second moon; he's prepared to guide it through the dimensional barrier himself. He's regained his memory, then? "Getter rays, WILL, the spiral warrior... the Black Revelations..." he mutters. "I've got a good chunk of them out of those, but to fill in the last hole, I've gotta go to the moon." But after that, it's go time between him and us.



The Gekko's upgrade funds are finally returned.

Anyway, it really is the final mission next, and yes, I am going to fill out the rest of those conversations with Ime by then. Enjoy!

Mister Olympus
Oct 31, 2011

Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies


Are you going to post Ime's in-battle dialogue? There is a video with all of it...

Brunom1
Sep 4, 2011

Ask me about being the best dad ever.


Mister Olympus posted:

Are you going to post Ime's in-battle dialogue? There is a video with all of it...

Edit: gently caress, there's a spoiler right at the end.

I'll try to find it elsewhere. Couldn't find a clean version...I suppose it'll have to wait until a bit later.

Brunom1 fucked around with this message at 02:06 on May 22, 2014

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



You know Asakim's telling the truth about Ime being unable to even say anything coherent even before he says it. Check his response to attacks, a bunch of numbers. Absolutely nonsensical. The Spheres' side-effects are really, really bad. Power at a price, I guess.

Also I can't choose which answer to Ime is the best, so many are so good. I love this cast. That said, I also love how Ime casually drops a whole bunch of spoilers, and no one really believes him because, you know, pathological (if forced by a supernatural power) liar.

Can't say I'll miss the guy himself though. I'll definitely miss his theme song.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



This stage lays out two things that were hinted at: 1) Every single DAMON used to be a human being that got turned against their will into a monster and 2) Ime is a pathological liar and even if he says a lot of half truths they are still half lies.

The first one is horrifying nightmare fuel. In a game where you are usually blowing up faceless enemy soldiers all too eager to die for their evil dictator of choice, you're suddenly told that all those DAMONS you have been blowing up imploding are people that got essentially zombified. That is one of the darkest things these games have ever done.

Now Ime: Ime's role in the game is clearly to be Crowe's rival, whom he accosts the entire time. Crowe is easygoing, distrustful of women and his only real motivation (that we can see) is to pay his debt. In order to make him invested in something, Ime causes this entire mess with Limonecia and Gaioh. That is a lot of effort put into basically trolling a guy and should tell you just how much of a big deal the Spheres are.

With that said he's clearly having the time of his life taunting people with his knowledge of the script other dimensions and blatantly lying just to wind them up. He's basically the Ali Al-saachez of Banpresto originals in that he's absolutely irredeemable but hilarious to watch once he gets going. Definitely one of the most unique and refreshing original antagonists in the series.

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011



Yeah. Villains like him are always fun in crossover stories like this, where you get to see all the other heroes momentarily recoil because wow this guy's a dick! I particularly liked Kamille trying to get a Newtype Bullshit Magic Reading on Aim and just coming away flummoxed. I'm interested to see how this game ends - its nature as a part one kind of means it's going to be hard to make a satisfying resolution without just making the inevitable barrage of threats in the next game seem out of nowhere.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...



The awesome theme music helps too.

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011



Dr Pepper posted:

The awesome theme music helps too.

That it does. Untrue Crystal is really bitchin'.

GilliamYaeger
Jan 10, 2012

Call Gespenst!


Spiritus Nox posted:

Yeah. Villains like him are always fun in crossover stories like this, where you get to see all the other heroes momentarily recoil because wow this guy's a dick! I particularly liked Kamille trying to get a Newtype Bullshit Magic Reading on Aim and just coming away flummoxed. I'm interested to see how this game ends - its nature as a part one kind of means it's going to be hard to make a satisfying resolution without just making the inevitable barrage of threats in the next game seem out of nowhere.

The segway between Z2.1 and Z2.2 is done really well, in my opinion. Even without being able to read any of the dialogue, I was able to appreciate exactly what was happening during my playthrough. Really looking forward to seeing it again with the benefit of Caphi's translation.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 23 hours!


It helps that they picked a lot of series with clear 'first' and 'second' halves, like Gurren Lagann, Shin Getter, Code Geass, Gundam 00, etc. That way it makes sense to split the game up into two halves too.

Though Shin Getter's 'first half' is all of three episodes.

HiKaizer
Feb 2, 2012

Yes!
I finally understand everything there is to know about axes!


Spiritus Nox posted:

Yeah. Villains like him are always fun in crossover stories like this, where you get to see all the other heroes momentarily recoil because wow this guy's a dick! I particularly liked Kamille trying to get a Newtype Bullshit Magic Reading on Aim and just coming away flummoxed. I'm interested to see how this game ends - its nature as a part one kind of means it's going to be hard to make a satisfying resolution without just making the inevitable barrage of threats in the next game seem out of nowhere.

Endorph posted:

It helps that they picked a lot of series with clear 'first' and 'second' halves, like Gurren Lagann, Shin Getter, Code Geass, Gundam 00, etc. That way it makes sense to split the game up into two halves too.

Though Shin Getter's 'first half' is all of three episodes.

This is pretty much how it works. Stuff like Gudam Wing and Macross Frontier don't mesh entirely friendly with the other series which generally have time skips of varying degrees. The Gurren Lagann timeskip is going to be especially awkward to see potentially in Rebirth. That said most of the threats that lead into Z2-2 don't really come from nowhere. Most of them are hinted at or set up in advance, only one or two series really come out of nowhere.

GilliamYaeger
Jan 10, 2012

Call Gespenst!


HiKaizer posted:

This is pretty much how it works. Stuff like Gudam Wing and Macross Frontier don't mesh entirely friendly with the other series which generally have time skips of varying degrees. The Gurren Lagann timeskip is going to be especially awkward to see potentially in Rebirth. That said most of the threats that lead into Z2-2 don't really come from nowhere. Most of them are hinted at or set up in advance, only one or two series really come out of nowhere.

You can lump Getter Robo Armageddon in with Gurren Lagann, since its timeskip is long enough for a chubby prepubescent kid to turn into a 17 year old.

HiKaizer
Feb 2, 2012

Yes!
I finally understand everything there is to know about axes!


Well you also have Gundam 00. Then the folks from Dancougar Nova and Daiguard haven't aged a day for example.

Gurren Lagann is just awkward because they achieve a civilisation more advanced than the rest of the world in about ten years.

Ardeem
Sep 16, 2010

There is no problem that cannot be solved through sufficient application of lasers and friendship.

HiKaizer posted:

Well you also have Gundam 00. Then the folks from Dancougar Nova and Daiguard haven't aged a day for example.

Gurren Lagann is just awkward because they achieve a civilisation more advanced than the rest of the world in about ten years.

It's Gurren Lagann, they probably found one buried under a rock and it worked perfectly.

HiKaizer
Feb 2, 2012

Yes!
I finally understand everything there is to know about axes!


Or Simon just shoves Lagann into everything and it just upgrades, because that's how Spiral Power works!

GilliamYaeger
Jan 10, 2012

Call Gespenst!


HiKaizer posted:

Well you also have Gundam 00. Then the folks from Dancougar Nova and Daiguard haven't aged a day for example.

Gurren Lagann is just awkward because they achieve a civilisation more advanced than the rest of the world in about ten years.

Its not really that advanced, relatively speaking? I mean, you've got the Macross fleet in orbit who are literally from the future, orbital elevators, etc etc. The only really impressive thing they have are crappy mass produced Ganmen that are probably outperformed by the 00 S2 grunts.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 23 hours!


Yeah, iunno what you mean about 'more advanced than the rest of the world.' Gurren Lagann's civilization is only a little more advanced than the modern day real world.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013



Blaze Dragon posted:

You know Asakim's telling the truth about Ime being unable to even say anything coherent even before he says it. Check his response to attacks, a bunch of numbers. Absolutely nonsensical. The Spheres' side-effects are really, really bad. Power at a price, I guess.
It becomes truly horrifying when you realize what those numbers and random gibberish are supposed to represent: Aim's truthful responses to getting beat up by your units. All of that gibberish? They are supposed to represent Aim in pain, fear, and anger at your forces. Every one of those gibberish lines is one person doing everything possible to desperately say the truth, but he can't thanks to his Sphere. Aim is probably one of the most explicit examples in any fiction of what you said: power at a price. And yet, Aim's price was something that we wouldn't normally consider being a price in this kind of situation.


That said, I do like how they maintained a consistent motif with Aim, right down to his theme sounding the exact opposite of how Aim behaves.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



One of his responses when you bring him down to under 10% HP is a very calm and polite "The Arietes is perfectly fine." so flip that and you get... Yeah.

I think is pretty neat that they made a guy who can't stop lying the rival to the aloof and morally flexible main character, it really pushes Crowe to actually stand up for something.

Brunom1
Sep 4, 2011

Ask me about being the best dad ever.


AradoBalanga posted:

It becomes truly horrifying when you realize what those numbers and random gibberish are supposed to represent: Aim's truthful responses to getting beat up by your units. All of that gibberish? They are supposed to represent Aim in pain, fear, and anger at your forces. Every one of those gibberish lines is one person doing everything possible to desperately say the truth, but he can't thanks to his Sphere. Aim is probably one of the most explicit examples in any fiction of what you said: power at a price. And yet, Aim's price was something that we wouldn't normally consider being a price in this kind of situation.

Lemme see if I can't add perspective as to how insane his lines get.

Here are a few of them, taken from the srw wiki:

  • The red leaves of the black future! Beyond the clock's hands!
  • It's distant! It's shallow! My right eye!
  • I see it! I see it! The blood sport!
  • nanananananatanatanatanatanatanatanatanatanatatatata!
  • 1, 3, 5, 8, 13, 19, 24!
  • Yellowyellowyellowyellowredredredredwhitewhitegreenwhiteblackblackblueredwhite!

Finally, when he's really close to dying, he'll take bits from all of them and make one giant line that's so crazy long that the game will only subtitle it as ブツブツ which is, essentially, "grumbling":

The left ear of the dog of the brain of 15000 years of the glass of the other side of the right eye of the depths of the magic bullets of the flower of the game of the giants of the earth!

Brunom1 fucked around with this message at 00:12 on May 23, 2014

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta


Grimey Drawer

Endorph posted:

Yeah, iunno what you mean about 'more advanced than the rest of the world.' Gurren Lagann's civilization is only a little more advanced than the modern day real world.

Hey, they have cars with legs. And everything runs on Spiral Power which is totally (quite literally) green. It's an infinitely renewable energy source Spiral Nemesis be damned. Our pithy society has yet to beat that.

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Alacron
Feb 15, 2007

-->Have tearful reunion with your son
-->Eh

Fun Shoe

TwoPair posted:

Hey, they have cars with legs. And everything runs on Spiral Power which is totally (quite literally) green. It's an infinitely renewable energy source Spiral Nemesis be damned. Our pithy society has yet to beat that.

I always wondered about that, does everyone start their cars by punching in their spiral keys and giving a super hot-blooded scream?

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