Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


Outrail posted:

I'm guessing any feral exotic animal is fair game in Texas?

As long as it doesn't have an ear tag. If it does have an ear tag it falls in to the same category as livestock. That's when the three S rule applies. Shoot, Shovel, Shut up

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010




Atticus_1354 posted:

As long as it doesn't have an ear tag. If it does have an ear tag it falls in to the same category as livestock. That's when the three S rule applies. Shoot, Shovel, Shut up

Shoot, snip (the tag off), shrug (when asked what happened to that ear)

(I don't have a hell of a lot of love for the Texas exotic farming situation)

tangy yet delightful
Sep 13, 2005





Looking to get an actual hunting pack for this season, aiming for a day pack as I have no plans for bigger/longer/overnight stuff out in the woods.

Kuiu has the Pro 1850 Pack system
Exo Mtn Gear has the K3 1800 Pack System

what else should I be looking at to consider? I'm in a buy once cry once mindset here. Also I'm wanting to buy before somehow all stuff is sold out because somehow covid is to blame.

edit: hunting PNW and hoping to pack out a deer

Ophidian
Jan 12, 2005

Woo WOO, Look a Parrot...
LOOK AT IT!


The big brands are Mystery Ranch, Stone Glacier, Kifaru and Exo mountain gear. Sitka and Kuiu make packs also but I’ve seen enough negative things written about them for me to steer clear.

As I don’t currently hunt anything that would require a pack system, I don’t really have any info past that.

Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


Pham Nuwen posted:

Shoot, snip (the tag off), shrug (when asked what happened to that ear)

(I don't have a hell of a lot of love for the Texas exotic farming situation)

I don't either. My job is doing ecological restoration and it's obscene to see what some of these guys like my neighbor do to their property.

Also don't have any ears if you just mount the skull.


Also current theory is that it's a small Markhor goat. I may try and trap it and sell it.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010




tangy yet delightful posted:

Looking to get an actual hunting pack for this season, aiming for a day pack as I have no plans for bigger/longer/overnight stuff out in the woods.

Kuiu has the Pro 1850 Pack system
Exo Mtn Gear has the K3 1800 Pack System

what else should I be looking at to consider? I'm in a buy once cry once mindset here. Also I'm wanting to buy before somehow all stuff is sold out because somehow covid is to blame.

edit: hunting PNW and hoping to pack out a deer

Edit: I typed all that poo poo up before I realized you said day pack. I guess I just like to talk about gear. Outdoorsmans also has smaller packs like https://outdoorsmans.com/products/spur-50, and this interesting thing which is a little pack attached to their big pack frame (which would be a good combo for hauling a deer out of the woods) https://outdoorsmans.com/products/outdoorsmans-muley-pack-system


I have an Outdoorsmans pack that I got several years ago. They seem to have expanded their lines a bit so the names are different, but mine is essentially this one: https://outdoorsmans.com/products/palisade-90-pack-system in coyote brown; they also appear to have fixed my major gripe, which is that one set of compression straps interferes with the little side pockets. It's an external frame, so it's not incredibly light--they list the Coyote Brown one at 8.1lbs. I use it for regular backpacking and for hunting. I've packed out a cow elk solo and I've hauled it up and down some goddamn steep mountains in both NM and OR.

I really like the long side pockets that run all the way up and down each side. I've carried a tripod in one and a spotting scope in the other, but I'll also use them to carry tent poles or, most frequently, to haul the many many water bottles I drag out into the desert. The belt can take a leatherman or a pistol holster on either side; I usually keep a leatherman on there, but I've also packed my .22 revolver.

I threw it in my friend's pickup bed last summer and the combination of rough road and very coarse bedliner actually wore down the tops of the frame just a little bit, but it's still perfectly functional if slightly less attractive.

One other neat feature is that they have a $99 adapter that you can attach to the pack frame which lets you just straight-up stick barbell weights on it for training:



(I don't have the adapter, I just think it's neat)

Pham Nuwen fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Apr 18, 2021

DekeThornton
Sep 2, 2011

Be friends!


Regarding backpacks I recently bought a Vorn Deer holster backpack https://www.vornequipment.com/vorndeer and so far I like it a fair bit. However it might lack features you are looking for. It has an internal frame so it's not really designed for carrying large amounts of game out with you, as with something with an external frame. I guess, seeing as it's a Norwegian brand, it has things like mountain grouse hunting as a large focus (this is why I bought it mainly) where having a slick holster system for quick gun access is more important than being able to haul a bunch of deer meat.

charliebravo77
Jun 11, 2003



tangy yet delightful posted:

Looking to get an actual hunting pack for this season, aiming for a day pack as I have no plans for bigger/longer/overnight stuff out in the woods.

Kuiu has the Pro 1850 Pack system
Exo Mtn Gear has the K3 1800 Pack System

what else should I be looking at to consider? I'm in a buy once cry once mindset here. Also I'm wanting to buy before somehow all stuff is sold out because somehow covid is to blame.

edit: hunting PNW and hoping to pack out a deer

Between the two the Exo gets my vote without question. The Mystery Ranch Pop-Up series is also a consideration, especially if you're talking thick jungle-like parts of the PNW where being able to collapse the frame down while traipsing through brush is beneficial.

Chaosfeather
Nov 4, 2008



Atticus_1354 posted:

I don't either. My job is doing ecological restoration and it's obscene to see what some of these guys like my neighbor do to their property.

Also don't have any ears if you just mount the skull.


Also current theory is that it's a small Markhor goat. I may try and trap it and sell it.

As someone getting their feet wet in the same field, do iiiit.

I just put a red-eared slider from the local waterways the size of a dinner plate on the path towards a turtle rescue, but if I encounter too many more I'm gonna have to learn how to cull them. I know they are everywhere I just haven't run into them until this point.

I'm not great at culling birds by hand, as the neck snap isn't always clean unless I twist hard enough to decapitate. But I've put a few invasive birds out of their misery if they fall into my traps and I'm told 'eeeeh we don't have room just release them, there's so many it doesn't actually do anything to have one more'. If I had exotic goats, deer, etc running around my yard I'd definitely just put them down, eat them, shrug if someone asked where I got the skull/pelt from.

tangy yet delightful
Sep 13, 2005





Ophidian posted:

The big brands are Mystery Ranch, Stone Glacier, Kifaru and Exo mountain gear. Sitka and Kuiu make packs also but I’ve seen enough negative things written about them for me to steer clear.

charliebravo77 posted:

Between the two the Exo gets my vote without question. The Mystery Ranch Pop-Up series is also a consideration, especially if you're talking thick jungle-like parts of the PNW where being able to collapse the frame down while traipsing through brush is beneficial.

Pham Nuwen posted:

outdoorsman

Thanks for all the input. I'll do some heavy research on all these later. I spent a good chunk of my time last season in heavier forest up here and I think for a higher success chance I'll be aiming for more open spaces so I probably won't specifically need the pop-up but even so might end up deciding on that one, I'll def take a look at it.

Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


Chaosfeather posted:

As someone getting their feet wet in the same field, do iiiit.

I just put a red-eared slider from the local waterways the size of a dinner plate on the path towards a turtle rescue, but if I encounter too many more I'm gonna have to learn how to cull them. I know they are everywhere I just haven't run into them until this point.

If you want turtles I have an obscene amount of soft shells in my creek. I need to build a turtle trap for them.

DapperDraculaDeer
Aug 4, 2007

Shut up, Nick! You're not Twilight.

tangy yet delightful posted:

Thanks for all the input. I'll do some heavy research on all these later. I spent a good chunk of my time last season in heavier forest up here and I think for a higher success chance I'll be aiming for more open spaces so I probably won't specifically need the pop-up but even so might end up deciding on that one, I'll def take a look at it.

Im a huge fan of my Pop-Up 18. The way the bag sits so low on your back makes it great for dense brush, but its also covered in straps and stuff so you can lash a surprising amount of stuff to the outside if need be. The 18 also sits low enough on your back that you can use a Boonie Packer Safari Sling to carry your rifle which I consider to be a huge bonus. Another good Mystery Ranch option is to get one of their larger packs on the Guide Light frame, and then buy the Mule bag to ride on that frame for day hunts. Then youll have a good frame and two different bags to ride on it. That is probably the best bang for your buck option if you want something bigger than the 18l Pop-up.

The big down side of the Mystery Ranch stuff is how the frame's yoke covers up most of your upper back. If you tend to have a sweaty back expect to spend most of your time wearing the pack all squishy and uncomfortable.

DapperDraculaDeer fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Apr 19, 2021

glynnenstein
Feb 18, 2014



tangy yet delightful posted:

Looking to get an actual hunting pack for this season, aiming for a day pack as I have no plans for bigger/longer/overnight stuff out in the woods.

Kuiu has the Pro 1850 Pack system
Exo Mtn Gear has the K3 1800 Pack System

what else should I be looking at to consider? I'm in a buy once cry once mindset here. Also I'm wanting to buy before somehow all stuff is sold out because somehow covid is to blame.

edit: hunting PNW and hoping to pack out a deer

I highly recommend Kifaru, though my experience is with the Reckoning, not any of their more dedicated daypack options. You can't really go too wrong with them or any of the go-tos that have already been listed here; they all make really excellent gear. If you got to try out enough high-end packs you'd find your preferences between them but they will all work well.

Chaosfeather
Nov 4, 2008



Atticus_1354 posted:

If you want turtles I have an obscene amount of soft shells in my creek. I need to build a turtle trap for them.

Are they good eating at all? That's my favorite solution to invasive species. I will go out of my way for a special dinner if it means I am helping our native critters. According to calherps spiny softshells are another invasive here so I might be able to catch some here. Would save you on the shipping!

Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


Chaosfeather posted:

Are they good eating at all? That's my favorite solution to invasive species. I will go out of my way for a special dinner if it means I am helping our native critters. According to calherps spiny softshells are another invasive here so I might be able to catch some here. Would save you on the shipping!

Apparently you can make a good meal but it's a ton of work to clean and cook so I haven't bothered. I'll stick to catfish.

tangy yet delightful
Sep 13, 2005





Ended up ordering the Exo K3 1800 pack after weighing the different options and guessing about this or that thing and how much I would or wouldn't like it in person. They have a decent return policy to where I'm at the very least going to hit local trails with say 40 and then 80lbs to make sure it seems like it's good instead of waiting till hunting time and finding out the hard way that the pack doesn't agree with me or whatever.

In related news, I guess I need to buy permits/points here soon so I have some meat to put in the pack fingers crossed. Planning to mostly buy points and focus on deer (buck or doe) for the season. I have it in my head I'd rather save points for a better hunt of the more esoteric stuff for after I've killed and butchered at least one deer.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

How not to hunt:

https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1387136349224984585?s=21

JRay88
Jan 4, 2013


I’m two minded on this. First off, gently caress the NRA and double gently caress WLP. Second, holy poo poo how can someone who is the head of a gun association with the founding principle of marksmanship be that bad a shot? I know animals don’t tend to die like we want them too (I always want a quick humane death for anything I shoot), but from the video it looks like he wasn’t even listening to the guide and just wanted to shoot.


I’m not against African big game hunting (although I would never shoot an elephant or rhino even if I had the money/opportunity). A lost of the countries in Africa fund their conservation/wildlife efforts with the trophy fees from these types of hunts. These people pay BIG fees, and in most cases are then told which animal they can hunt (almost like a cull). It looks like this species wasn’t listed as endangered until 2021. This video was taken almost ten years ago, so to me this comes across as a sensationalist hot take against the NRA/WLP/African hunting and as much as I hate the NRA/WLP I hate hot takes and misleading headlines more.

Mzuri
Jun 5, 2004

Who's the boss?
Dudes is lost.
Don't think coz I'm iced out,
I'm cooled off.

Yeah, I don't mind hunts on big game under responsible circumstances, as long as the proceeds go towards local conservation efforts. Hell, I have family that have done state mandated culls of elephant and Cape buffalo herds - at least in this case there is a financial reward for the community.

I *do* mind when those hunters are revealed to be incompetent. Add "callous assholes" to the mix and my gears are officially ground.

DapperDraculaDeer
Aug 4, 2007

Shut up, Nick! You're not Twilight.

JRay88 posted:


I’m not against African big game hunting (although I would never shoot an elephant or rhino even if I had the money/opportunity). A lost of the countries in Africa fund their conservation/wildlife efforts with the trophy fees from these types of hunts. These people pay BIG fees, and in most cases are then told which animal they can hunt (almost like a cull). It looks like this species wasn’t listed as endangered until 2021. This video was taken almost ten years ago, so to me this comes across as a sensationalist hot take against the NRA/WLP/African hunting and as much as I hate the NRA/WLP I hate hot takes and misleading headlines more.


African trophy hunting is a really difficult topic since there are 50+ nations in Africa, all with their own individual policies on conservation. Some, like Namibia have been doing really amazing work with the money they bring in. Others, like Zimbabwe, have been absolutely decimating native animal populations in order to bilk money from wealthy westerns to prop up an oppressive regime. So all these nations with vastly different policies get lumped under the umbrella of "Africa" and that really doesnt tell the full story. Its way more complicated than that.

If anything this seems like an indictment of safari guides bringing along anyone who has enough cash regardless of if they have the skills necessary to actually be involved in the hunt. Id love to go on safari in Africa, but I think I would rather bring a camera to do it than a rifle.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010




DapperDraculaDeer posted:

If anything this seems like an indictment of safari guides bringing along anyone who has enough cash regardless of if they have the skills necessary to actually be involved in the hunt. Id love to go on safari in Africa, but I think I would rather bring a camera to do it than a rifle.

When your clients are booking the hunt months in advance, from the other side of the world, how do you verify their skills? Beyond that, if you tell someone they're not a good enough hunter, they'll just find another guide who will take them, and then they'll tell their friends you're an rear end in a top hat. For it to work, I think the government would basically have to implement some sort of skills test (can you put 4 out of 5 shots within X inches from Y yards) before you're given the permit, and if you fail, well, here's a camera and a telephoto lens. Of course, now you just have the same problem, but at a national level: if Namibia says you're not good enough to hunt, you go to Zimbabwe and hunt there, but at least Namibia's wildlife populations are protected.

alnilam
Nov 10, 2009


Posting in the springtime


Whatever policy change you think may or may not help, I think we can all agree that the real rear end in a top hat here is Wayne LaPierre.

JRay88
Jan 4, 2013


alnilam posted:

Whatever policy change you think may or may not help, I think we can all agree that the real rear end in a top hat here is Wayne LaPierre.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010




alnilam posted:

Whatever policy change you think may or may not help, I think we can all agree that the real rear end in a top hat here is Wayne LaPierre.

DapperDraculaDeer
Aug 4, 2007

Shut up, Nick! You're not Twilight.

Pham Nuwen posted:

When your clients are booking the hunt months in advance, from the other side of the world, how do you verify their skills? Beyond that, if you tell someone they're not a good enough hunter, they'll just find another guide who will take them, and then they'll tell their friends you're an rear end in a top hat.

WLP is pretty wealthy so Im assuming this was a private game reserve where everything was very tightly controlled, you can even hear the guide verifying theres no one on the other side of the elephant at some point so they probably had spotters out. Even with all that going on WLP looked like an absolute wreck. There just has to be some point where a guide says "sorry but you arent ready for this, we can go have a lovely time viewing animals in nature or you can go home or something, but we arent shooting anything today". And of course the client can take their money and go find another guide, but if someone else wants to be an rear end in a top hat so be it. Thats on them.

And I really dont think theres any way you could legislate that. Perhaps holding the guide liable if the client makes a really big mistake and gets someone hurt, but thats a whole nother can of worms. I just think it should be clear that WLP isnt the only piece of poo poo here, the guide that let him accidentally torture an elephant is just as bad.

glynnenstein
Feb 18, 2014



DapperDraculaDeer posted:

WLP is pretty wealthy so Im assuming this was a private game reserve where everything was very tightly controlled, you can even hear the guide verifying theres no one on the other side of the elephant at some point so they probably had spotters out. Even with all that going on WLP looked like an absolute wreck. There just has to be some point where a guide says "sorry but you arent ready for this, we can go have a lovely time viewing animals in nature or you can go home or something, but we arent shooting anything today". And of course the client can take their money and go find another guide, but if someone else wants to be an rear end in a top hat so be it. Thats on them.

And I really dont think theres any way you could legislate that. Perhaps holding the guide liable if the client makes a really big mistake and gets someone hurt, but thats a whole nother can of worms. I just think it should be clear that WLP isnt the only piece of poo poo here, the guide that let him accidentally torture an elephant is just as bad.

It was filmed for some NRA tv show, so it's entirely probable the extremely expensive cost of the hunt was paid by member fees. The NRA!

alnilam
Nov 10, 2009


Posting in the springtime


It's cool of NRA TV to take a break from scaremongering about urban thugs to show an elephant being tortured instead. What a nice television channel.

JRay88
Jan 4, 2013


I’m not as upset about the guide, you can clearly hear him telling WLP to wait before he shot. It think initially WLP couldn’t hold his load and had a premature discharge, then was so excited he couldn’t hold straight even after the guide walked up to the elephant and said “shoot here”.


Yes, the guide does bear some responsibility for letting WLP be in that situation, but I don’t think anyone could have foreseen how bad he would gently caress it up.

For the head of a group that claims to teach marksmanship and proper gun handling he reallllllly hosed up.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




I'm not watching that video. Can someone tell me what happened? A guide walked up to a shot elephant somehow and pointed at a spot?

JRay88
Jan 4, 2013


Captain Log posted:

I'm not watching that video. Can someone tell me what happened? A guide walked up to a shot elephant somehow and pointed at a spot?

Yes, WLP wounded with the first shot and then they walked up to it. He very clearly and carefully says “point your rifle up (don’t point it at anyone), let’s clear the area. I’m going to show you where to shoot” then he walks up and says “shoot where I’m pointing” and then steps back to get out of the line of fire. WLP proceeds to be terribly inaccurate and miss from what looks like maybe 5 yards.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




JRay88 posted:

Yes, WLP wounded with the first shot and then they walked up to it. He very clearly and carefully says “point your rifle up (don’t point it at anyone), let’s clear the area. I’m going to show you where to shoot” then he walks up and says “shoot where I’m pointing” and then steps back to get out of the line of fire. WLP proceeds to be terribly inaccurate and miss from what looks like maybe 5 yards.

Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


Pham Nuwen posted:

When your clients are booking the hunt months in advance, from the other side of the world, how do you verify their skills? Beyond that, if you tell someone they're not a good enough hunter, they'll just find another guide who will take them, and then they'll tell their friends you're an rear end in a top hat.

Good guides will sometimes do a range day to judge how on the ball they need to be with their clients. A guide friend said the best investment he's made is in an automatic clay thrower. He shoots some clays with his client at the lodge before a bird hunt as a "warmup." It let's him judge how safe the client is and how well they handle the weapon. His rifle hunts have a zero verification session for the client to shoot and him to check over their equipment. Not every guide or even most is that good but it's possible. The other option is bang/bang hunting where the guide cracks off a round half a second after the "hunter" to make sure someone hits.

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




JRay88 posted:

Second, holy poo poo how can someone who is the head of a gun association with the founding principle of marksmanship be that bad a shot?

He's not there for the founding principle of marksmanship, he's there to fund his lavish lifestyle on someone else's dime. In conclusion,

alnilam posted:

Whatever policy change you think may or may not help, I think we can all agree that the real rear end in a top hat here is Wayne LaPierre.

Chaosfeather
Nov 4, 2008



alnilam posted:

Whatever policy change you think may or may not help, I think we can all agree that the real rear end in a top hat here is Wayne LaPierre.

I am personally extremely against Big Game Hunting with all caps. There's large game that's on the table (some species of antelope and zebra I presume) but anything endangered, at risk or horribly intelligent like an elephant is going to get a 'no thanks' from me. Wild pigs are the exception to that rule - they are smart but are also wrecking our wilderness, so if I manage to take some on public land I don't think I'll feel bad about it. It's not the pig's fault that they exist, but they are definitely causing a lot of damage.

I know that there is a large source of income to be had in countries that have these hunts and they are often used for the benefit of the ones that get to live. I know that most of the animals you are guided to target are old, nonbreeding or otherwise undesirable for the survival of the species. No, I don't know the answer to that. Maybe have them humanely put down and have a legal method of selling the parts, which would also be in great demand. Maybe just let nature do what it needs to do and try to find revenue elsewhere? Because at some point, they're going to run out of these animals if they aren't careful, and then they'll be back to the same problem as banning hunting would anyway. If I was rich I would definitely want some up close but safe encounters for photography or simply learning more about the species.

I'm not faulting the guide or the people doing this to survive at all. I think there is a better way if enough people look for it, but as is I know realistically that won't happen. It sucks. It's almost like problems in the real world are complex and have multiple consequences for the not-rich. WLP won't have any real punishment for even a fraction of what he's doing wrong.

I'm all for guides taking you aside and testing to see how good you are before a hunt. As someone who prides myself on a good shot, I'm confident that I would pass my rifle 'exam' to go. Shotgun? Not so much, but at that point the guide would be telling me what I already know. "You really should practice more than once a year for wing shooting, go back and do so before you put any more animal lives at risk" would sting but it's something that I know in my heart. If you're gonna tell me that to my face you may lose my money on this hunt since I can't go, but by god when I get better you'll know that's the first person I'm calling to guide me when I am ready.

gently caress the NRA. gently caress WLP.

DapperDraculaDeer
Aug 4, 2007

Shut up, Nick! You're not Twilight.

JRay88 posted:

Yes, WLP wounded with the first shot and then they walked up to it. He very clearly and carefully says “point your rifle up (don’t point it at anyone), let’s clear the area. I’m going to show you where to shoot” then he walks up and says “shoot where I’m pointing” and then steps back to get out of the line of fire. WLP proceeds to be terribly inaccurate and miss from what looks like maybe 5 yards.

In all honesty the guide did a pretty good job of keeping calm, keeping WLP moving forward towards finishing the job and providing him clear direction despite the fact that WLP was pretty clearly not ok. Ive probably been overly judgmental because really, who would expect the head of the freaking NRA to choke that hard? The whole situation is more an example of how pay for access hunting doesnt always lead to a particular good outcome for the animal than proof that the guide is an rear end.

charliebravo77
Jun 11, 2003



That wasn't near as bad as I would have expected it to be. Not to defend fuckstick WLP but I have seen hunts go sideways once bullets start flying. Sometimes critters do strange things when shot, but very clearly WLP can't take directions and was all blood lusty about spending all his NRA wine club bucks on his trophy room addition.

I'm not super interested in African Big Game Hunting outside of some very specific circumstances where it is effectively a backcountry hunt, but if it was a non-breeding bull elephant that may have been causing problems with the herd or damaging property and the money and meat goes directly back to the local villages/conservation efforts then it's better than poaching it and selling the tusks on the black market. As Dapper eluded to, African hunting politics and practices are incredibly diverse and nuanced and it's really hard to sit as an outsider and judge how things are there.

Mzuri
Jun 5, 2004

Who's the boss?
Dudes is lost.
Don't think coz I'm iced out,
I'm cooled off.

Yeah, I can't blame the guides on this one - sounds like they guided their clients to some pretty good opportunities. The wife capitalized ("paying the insurance" on dangerous big game with a close-range shot is standard, btw) but the husband couldn't/wouldn't follow very clear directions and botched the whole thing. Character reveals itself when things go sideways and this was no exception. The guide was in a very hard spot and handled it OK, I think.

On topic, I'm reading this book right now and would like to recommend it to anyone interested in the "golden days" of safari hunting in East Africa from c1920-1960ish: https://www.amazon.com/White-Hunters-Golden-African-Safaris/dp/0805067361/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=white+hunters&qid=1619676785&sr=8-1

Lots of anecdotes, colourful characters and buckets full of mauling, trampling, goring, clawing, and crushing. Trigger warning: It's about the colonial era by someone who lived it, so the white man is front and center.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017
NRA shill who thinks homeless people would love to live in migrant border camps. Help me realize I am a bigoted piece of shit.


JRay88 posted:

I’m not against African big game hunting (although I would never shoot an elephant or rhino even if I had the money/opportunity). A lost of the countries in Africa fund their conservation/wildlife efforts with the trophy fees from these types of hunts. These people pay BIG fees, and in most cases are then told which animal they can hunt (almost like a cull). It looks like this species wasn’t listed as endangered until 2021. This video was taken almost ten years ago, so to me this comes across as a sensationalist hot take against the NRA/WLP/African hunting and as much as I hate the NRA/WLP I hate hot takes and misleading headlines more.

I am not really crazy about ANY hunt that basically serves a specific animal up for a client. However I do agree with the hot take part, dropped into this thread because ~reasons~, (and it really did a number on this thread since)

In personal hunting news, shoulder is still a shredded mess, and will likely be back to muzzleloader for elk again this year and avoiding drawing the bow. Just wish it were closer to the rut, rather than after the any weapon period, where the woods are like a football tailgating party. Between getting over COVID and the fucky shoulder, I am an old mess.

I have been working a lot around 1%er areas where the elk herd usually retreats to and hangs out, and even there I haven't many to speak of. Really have to wonder where they may have found that is away from rabid development, and yahoos on Razrs.

Hasselblad fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Apr 29, 2021

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

Guided hunts in general that offer up an animal seem fine, especially as instruction. A guide putting a shooter within relatively easy range of a game animal (elk, deer, goat, birds, whatever) is fine and can include instruction on field cleaning or even meal prep later. Basically just a way to pay for skills that a lot of people who hunt have inherited from family/friends.

The trophy piece doesn’t interest me, though I don’t judge someone who keeps the trophy of an animal they were killing for food or cull purposes anyway.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

DapperDraculaDeer
Aug 4, 2007

Shut up, Nick! You're not Twilight.

It seems like anyone that hunts public land long enough eventually takes an interest in a hunt on a mountain. About two years ago I took an interest in black bear hunting which was delayed due to COVID, but last weekend it was my turn to go up the mountain for the first time. For a variety of reasons I had zeroed in on Medicine Bow National Forest for my first attempt at black bear. Logistically, it wasnt that far from home and could in theory be reached in a single rather long day of driving. The elevation in the area topped out around 10,000 feet, which while still quite high for a newbie was more manageable. On top of that a common complaint about the area was the density of the timber, a lot of people considered this to be a big negative but since Im fairly comfortable hunting timber here in Texas I felt it might actually give me a bit of an edge. So after making some arrangements for childcare, travel, etc I managed to secure a few days to flee the state and after a long drive arrived in southern Wyoming last Friday.



Its a really pretty place. I had called the various ranger stations multiple times trying to get an idea about what conditions on the ground are like. The place doesnt really open to the public until after Memorial Day but some roads were open(although the various NFS staff I spoke to strongly discouraged using them). The Snowy Range section of the forest however had a paved and well maintained road going just about directly through the center of it so I chose this area as my starting point. Lots and lots of ATVs were being hauled around on trailers or parked at the occasional open FS road. I found my way to the trailhead I wanted to get started at, got my gear unloaded and hit the trail.



After walking along a six foot snowbank to find the trail itself this is what greeted me. It was around 60° outside yet there was snow everywhere. This valley ran roughly parallels to the road and the trail continued several miles back into the mountains. The snow on the trail itself had been compressed enough to easily walk on but the moment I stepped off the trail I rapidly sank into the snow up to my knees and at some points my waist. This is not something a lifetime of living in Texas and the south had prepared me to deal with. Despite that I pushed on following the trail and avoiding the deep snow where possible.



I started finding elk sign fast. There was scat and tracks all along the valley from what appeared to be a lone elk.



I also pretty quickly found some readily identifiable bear tracks. There were three sets of tracks leading up the mountain, all of slightly different age. From what I had read about black bears this is very common since they tend to tread along a wide area and flatten it out, unlike whitetail who follow the same trail every time. They all lead the same direction up the north slope of the mountain so with my first lead I stepped off the trail and onto the snow. And then promptly sank right in up to my knees. Again. I did my best to struggle up the hill but it was about as slow as the going gets. In many places the snow was still dense enough I could stand on it, but in others I would sink right in. It made for treacherous going but I did my best to persist. After about an hour I had covered maybe 100 yards and was exhausted. This clearly wasnt going to work. So I retreated back to the truck and drove into Larime in search of a secret weapon.



Snow shoes. I had no clue how to use snow shoes. I didnt even know what they looked like. But after a few calls I found a place that still had some to rent and I was ready to try the mountain again.



The results were much better. I was still clumsy as hell in them and had at least one scary fall but I was staying on top of the snow for the most part. I followed the bear tracks up the snowy north slope of the mountain and found that a forest fire had cleared much of the south slope of the mountain. I was unable to pick up any bear tracks along this section of the mountain and since daylight was starting to run out decided to setup here and see if anything moved by at dusk.



I got my optics setup and settled in with some tea. With only an hour left till last light it didnt take long to spot some movement in the form of the most adorable little chipmunk. He crawled out of his home, which is also pictured, and started doing his thing. Me and the chipmunk hung out on the top of the mountain for about an hour before the light started getting low. This being my first night on the mountain I decided to play it safe and snow shoe my way back to camp while there was still some light left so I said goodbye to my chipmunk bro and headed back to camp.



Camp was camp. Being parked right along a major road for the area I had locals stop by to chat occasionally which is always nice. Baiting is definitely the primary method of taking bears in the area and I cant count how many times I was asked where my bait barrel was. The major piece of advice I was receiving was that I was too high and needed to get lower to where things were greening up better. My hope for the area was to get back over the mountains along the trail and into a three year old wildfire zone. My hope was this would be remote enough to be completely unpressured while also open enough that the south facing slopes would be adequately green to bring in a bear. I decided to stick with my original plan at least for another day and then evaluate.



And the next day did come fast. I slept like a rock, got up and had a quick breakfast then hit the trail. I had mapped out a jump off point from the trail that I hoped would take me over the ridge and into the wildfire zone. It was both steeper and longer a climb than I had expected. The snow was also melting fast and very wet so even with the snow shoes I would often sink into the snow up to my ankles. It made for a slow, treacherous climb where I had to test every step but I kept at it and in a little over and hour I had reached the top. At 9600ft this was the highest I would reach on this trip and it was pretty glorious. It was selfie time.



Strong lost Texan vibes with this picture. Doubly so since I had been so busy getting up the mountain and then scouting around I hadnt bothered to look up in quite a while. When I did was I surprised to see that some rather hostile looking purplish clouds had rolled in. I felt I had enough information on the area to write it off for this early in the season. Possibly by late March or early June it would have enough grass growing in to bring in some wildlife, but for now it seemed to largely be a dead zone. With that decision made I started the trek back down the mountain and to the trail. Downhill was much easier than up and I made good time getting back to the truck. With about three hours of daylight left and a weather situation developing that I was uncertain how to judge I decided to play it safe and setup near the truck to see if I could spot something moving. The valley near the trailhead had a lot of potential so I boiled up some water for tea and setup along a hill to see if anything came along.



And I didnt see a thing. The sky got darker and darker and the temperature to drop but not a thing moved along the valley. It was pretty clear I was going to have to relocate further down the mountain but the question now was how far. The goal here was to find areas where the snow had receded allowing grass and other plants to start growing. Those plants were an important part of a black bears diet when it exited hibernation so if you could find them in quantity you very well may find a bear as well. The most likely spot for these was going to be south facing slopes and wildfire areas. Fortunately I had a wildfire area on a south facing slope at around 9k feet scouted out already. So I made the short hike back to the truck, bringing day 2 to an end and got some sleep. In the morning I packed up camp and moved down the mountain a ways.



Which gave me my first chance to really see the aftermath of a forest fire. And this was only a baby one. The Mullen Fire had burned a massive swathe of the forest just north of the area I was scouting.



I wonder if anyones home? I decided against checking to find out.



After scoping the place out I setup overlooking a long south facing slope that had been thoroughly burned. I sat a bit and watched the birds but this just didnt seem like an area that would be productive. There was nothing for wildlife to eat. I suppose it was possible I might get lucky and catch an animal passing through but that seemed like a poor use of my time. So after a cup of tea it was time to pack up and move again. I had two more locations scouted, one around 8,000 feet and one on the opposite side of Laramie at 6,000 feet. So once more I got back in the car and made the drive to the opposite side of the North Platte and into the foothills. I setup camp and brewed some coffee and was about to head out to scout when the sky finally opened up.



It hailed like crazy for about an hour. Tiny, stinging little hail stones that were very unpleasant to get hit with. At this point I was pretty worn out. The moment I set foot on the mountain I should have been eating peanut butter straight from the jar and guzzling water by the gallon, instead I had been skipping lunch and carrying only a liter of water with me at a time to reduce weight. I was beat. I broke out the peanut butter then took a nap as the hail turned to rain and then the rain turned to drizzle. Once the drizzle had slowed down enough I got my pack and my rifle and headed off from camp. My goal was to stay fairly close to camp to rest up a bit and rehydrate while still getting some glassing time in.



About half way up the hill from the camp I found a slightly sheltered spot with a good view. There was green everywhere, from the foot of the hill running all the way too the top. This spot had some potential so I settled in and brewed some more tea in between chomping down the greatest hunting snack ever, sweet and salty bars. As I sat the rain completely stopped and the sky even cleared a bit. It didnt take long for movement to start on the valley below.



The local pronghorn had come out to eat. Along with some mulies. They grazed happily at the base of the hill totally oblivious to me. I did my best to split my time between glassing the area and enjoying the local wildlife doing their thing. Within about half an hour I spotted a shaggy silhouette along the crest of the hill. My first thought was bear, but I got my scope on it and was surprised to see an elk instead.



As the sun worked its way down the sky more and more animals appeared. More elk worked their way over the hill and onto the slope we shares.



And the mule deer seemed to multiply by the moment. Eventually one spotted me and alerted the rest.



They were very concerned.



The elk on the other hand didnt seem to mind me at all. They continued to graze their way down the hill, I ranged the closest elk at 90 yards. At this point I was actually getting kind of nervous about that herd. By my best count there were seventeen elk in the herd. I didnt count any babies with them but letting them get much closer just seemed like a recipe for something bad to happen. I did my best to quietly pack my gear up and move out but as I folded my tripod up they spooked and ran off... about 20 yards. Then they went back to grazing.

This spot felt like the jackpot. I had seen tons of game and the ridgeline a little further back seemed like a good candidate for a spot to find a black bear. Excited I made the short trek back to camp and celebrated with some chicken and dumplings. I got some sleep and woke up to discover it was snowing. I was in pretty isolated area with no cell service, my family was expecting me to be heading back the same day and I had no clue how bad the storm was going to get. So, sadly, I decided to cut the hunt short and head back.



This proved to be the correct choice because holy poo poo did it snow. I just wish I had waited a few more minutes to leave and then I might not have hit a deer on my way out of the national forest. Whoops.

Regardless, I learned a lot from the trip and established a basic understanding of the area and how to move through it. Taking a bear would have been nice but Ive always known that was a long shot for a relatively new hunter in the mountains for the first time. I also had some time to give it some thought and I think I developed a basic approach for next Spring that will make it much faster to get into a location where I am likely to find black bear. For prehunt scouting I plan to locate accessible, south facing slopes at 5k, 6k, 7k, 8k and 9k. Then once on the ground rather than immediately rushing out on foot to find them I will drive the area, several of the main roads through the mountain go up through all of these elevations so checking the status of vegetation along the road at these heights should provide a decent idea of what altitude is starting to green up. Then Ill head out to those spots at the appropriate elevation to glass and see.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply