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dreesemonkey
May 14, 2008


Pillbug

It never ceases to amaze me how finishing touches completely transform the look of something. Like framing to unfinished drywall is a big leap, and then unfinished to finished and painted drywall is just as big of a leap, then another big leap just when trim and flooring go up.

It's like somehow our brains are stimulated in just the right way when the finishing touches go on. Siding looks great!

I want to re-side my house but honestly I'm probably just going to hire it out, though it doesn't look too bad.

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kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Bang for buck and time spent wise it is easily the fastest improvement I've done, ever. I don't think we have over 2k into the entire siding project at this point and the change is... Still blowing my mind.

The trim adds up fast, especially where I've had to use azek/verandah HP. The siding itself is... Cheap as dirt. 71 cents a square foot for the brand I'm using here, which honestly isn't even a high end siding. Somehow it still manages to look pretty nice.

mcgreenvegtables
Nov 2, 2004
Yum!

kastein posted:

I don't think we have over 2k into the entire siding project at this point

Wow, I am never going to forget that number. I once talked to a siding contractor in the Boston area who told me his average job was $45,000. Probably not apples to apples with house size and materials but still makes it clear how much you are paying for labor, overhead, and profit.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


mcgreenvegtables posted:

Wow, I am never going to forget that number. I once talked to a siding contractor in the Boston area who told me his average job was $45,000. Probably not apples to apples with house size and materials but still makes it clear how much you are paying for labor, overhead, and profit.

Hahahaha holy poo poo! I'm in the wrong business. Even if this house was 8 times as big - that's over ten thousand square feet - I'd be pretty happy with that level of profit.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




He's probably using a lot more labor than one madman willing to throw up siding in the dark with sketchy scaffolding.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


Liquid Communism posted:

He's probably using a lot more labor than one madman willing to throw up siding in the dark with sketchy scaffolding.

Sure most won't do it at night.

wooger
Apr 16, 2005

YOU RESENT?

mcgreenvegtables posted:

Wow, I am never going to forget that number. I once talked to a siding contractor in the Boston area who told me his average job was $45,000. Probably not apples to apples with house size and materials but still makes it clear how much you are paying for labor, overhead, and profit.

Contractors in Boston have to pay to live, and pay their staff to live, and store their stuff in Boston.

mcgreenvegtables
Nov 2, 2004
Yum!

wooger posted:

Contractors in Boston have to pay to live, and pay their staff to live, and store their stuff in Boston.

Yeah I'm not claiming its obviously a ripoff, just really mentally tough to process a crew flying through the job in a few days and leaving you a mid five figure bill.

When I bought my house I paid $20k to paint it and another $8k for rot repair carpentry. Luckily the painter I hired was disorganized, using a 2-3 man crew, was pretty thorough, and it rained a ton, so it literally took 3 months to get the job done, even though he really was mostly showing up in good weather. If he had powered through the job with a ton of guys in under a week like some of the other crews I see in the neighborhood it would have been a lot harder for me to feel like I wasn't getting completely ripped off on the price.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


With all that done I basically had to face the worst part, doing the trim around the bay window. It's difficult because there are so many angles and weird surfaces to deal with and I built the bay window bump-out level and plumb, which means the diagonal faces of it are not rectangular... But the side windows are... So the remaining strip at each side is really really not rectangular.

First layer all around needs a channel routed on the back to clear the nail flange.


Verticals on both sides are done and one of the pieces to space the top out to match is as well.


First layer is done all around, including on the main wall, and final layer on both verticals.


At that point I realized I needed to buy more material for the rest of the final layer, but I had gotten far enough to do the siding, so I put layout lines on the tyvek on both sides to keep my siding courses level (so it still lines up when it connects back together at the top of the window) and started putting up siding. Which, due to the multiple roof surfaces that merge with the side wall here, is non trivial. I also had to add kickout diverter flashings as well as step flashing here. I originally did continuous lead flashing and while the first building inspector didn't give a gently caress back in 2010-2011 and it hasn't leaked because I used a ton of roofing tar on the end of each course, it turns out diverter kickouts have been required by code for quite some time now, and step flashing always was, so I'm bringing this all up to code before putting the siding over it. The zip tape to divert any water that does get behind the siding out within one course is above code but given it's the windward side of the house and has two roofs tossing water at it, it seemed like a good idea.


Cutting the template for the next course of siding to match the kickout.


I need to go back to home depot again tomorrow probably but pretty sure I can get this side of the house done within a few days now that I've gotten past the last of the tricky trim work on it. Weather sucks right now or I would have done most of it today.

tetrapyloctomy
Feb 18, 2003

Okay -- you talk WAY too fast.

Nap Ghost

Kickout flashing looks like it would be a pain in the rear end with snow, like it would let moisture get up under the shingles from light snow that normally would just plop off into the gutters.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


It might be, but given the grace ice and water shield, 6in drip edge, and 10+ roof slope I'm not super concerned about it.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

kastein posted:

It might be, but given the grace ice and water shield, 6in drip edge, and 10+ roof slope I'm not super concerned about it.

And given the fact that kick out flashing is just "how it's done here" with "here" being the entire northeast for the entire history of flashing being a thing.........I'd say you're good.

tetrapyloctomy
Feb 18, 2003

Okay -- you talk WAY too fast.

Nap Ghost

I've lived in the Pennsylvania my entire life, but weirdly I've never noticed it before.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


A LOT of houses don't have it. This one certainly didn't, though that's no ringing endorsement. I don't think I've ever noticed it until I found out I needed it. Sidewall flashing is something that's very commonly done wrong... At least I tried to make my wrong way better by going nuts with the roofing tar and running the flashing like 6 to 8 inches up the sidewall and continuing it past the eaves with the idea in mind to run the bottom end outside the siding as a sort of half-rear end kickout, but redoing it the right way was still better.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

kastein posted:

A LOT of houses don't have it. This one certainly didn't, though that's no ringing endorsement. I don't think I've ever noticed it until I found out I needed it. Sidewall flashing is something that's very commonly done wrong... At least I tried to make my wrong way better by going nuts with the roofing tar and running the flashing like 6 to 8 inches up the sidewall and continuing it past the eaves with the idea in mind to run the bottom end outside the siding as a sort of half-rear end kickout, but redoing it the right way was still better.

True. I should have said "how it's done here when it's done properly." There are a ton of houses with sidewalls like that all over the place that have a green or black streak down the siding where the water cascades off onto the siding.

If that was the worst common problem with homes we'd actually be in pretty good shape.

I just looked at a house for a friend and it's got two sump pumps and a generator set up - the sumps were running full bore yesterday because it was raining. They obviously put a lot of work into this setup and put in a french drain around the house to feel it as well. Sounds great, right? I bet absolutely none of it is necessary. Because the house is all negative slope grading (on a near flat lot, so this is trivial to fix) and.....forget kick out flashing.....there are no gutters at all. On a very old cedar shake roof.

dreesemonkey
May 14, 2008


Pillbug

Motronic posted:

True. I should have said "how it's done here when it's done properly." There are a ton of houses with sidewalls like that all over the place that have a green or black streak down the siding where the water cascades off onto the siding.

If that was the worst common problem with homes we'd actually be in pretty good shape.

I just looked at a house for a friend and it's got two sump pumps and a generator set up - the sumps were running full bore yesterday because it was raining. They obviously put a lot of work into this setup and put in a french drain around the house to feel it as well. Sounds great, right? I bet absolutely none of it is necessary. Because the house is all negative slope grading (on a near flat lot, so this is trivial to fix) and.....forget kick out flashing.....there are no gutters at all. On a very old cedar shake roof.

WTF. Gutters is like step one.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


I actually haven't had gutters since 2011. They came off with the old roof and haven't gone back on yet. Debating not putting them back on, or going with rainhandler style louvers, or putting traditional gutters on.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

Go full on wacko and go copper! Or cedar.


House looks amazing, such a change from the last time I was over.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

kastein posted:

I actually haven't had gutters since 2011. They came off with the old roof and haven't gone back on yet. Debating not putting them back on, or going with rainhandler style louvers, or putting traditional gutters on.

Guessing you haven't spent like $10k on sump pumps and french drains only to have your basement flood during a moderate rainstorm if you lower power for more than 10 minutes. That's the real issue with the place I was talking about.....just plain old order of operations stupidity.

He put an offer in. Still waiting to hear back. So there might be a thread.........

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Luckily my place is on the side of a fairly steep hill and has a dirt floor basement so even my water heater failing in 2013 and leaking basically as fast as my water main could fill it, for hours, did not appreciably flood my basement. And it was back to damp ground by the time I got back from home depot with the new water heater. So lack of gutters hasn't really been an issue other than mud spatters on the siding after a storm.

tomapot
Apr 7, 2005
Suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp. Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness.


Oven Wrangler

sharkytm posted:


House looks amazing, such a change from the last time I was over.

For the regulars on this thread I feel like this place should be a goon shrine. I drive up to Maine every summer and can leave a rotten piece of lumber as an offering.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


I would find that amusing but the next owner may be more confused/concerned.

Today I set up my new ladder hook so I could break OSHA regulations in new and exciting ways installing the step flashing on the southwest side of the bathroom roof:



This allowed me to reach that area of the last gable wall without building extensive scaffolding. The fact that it's something like 14 to 16 feet off the ground and conveniently located in a corner between my electrical service lateral, porch roof, and steep bathroom roof made it rather difficult to work on the wall in any meaningful way previously.

Step flashing on the other side is now done too:


And I half assed some leadsmithing to make the peak flashing, since I had a little lead stock left and wasn't really looking forward to making this out of aluminum without any leaks or seams:

I really do like working with lead - the only hammer I used for this was my 35ft tape measure, the only anvil a piece of 4x6 lumber, and the only bending tools, my thumbs. It came out alright given my lack of experience. The window is very much in the way, and I had to seal the flashing to the window nail flange using zipsystem tape and Grace Vycor rubberized bituminous flashing, which isn't ideal, but drat it sticks well.

Once that was all done and I got some J channel in place over the step flashing and under the window, it was time to face the most complicated part of the entire siding project. This entire gable wall is problematic since it has two distinct sections of starter strip (on opposite sides of an 8ft wide addition for the bathroom), 4 kickout diverters, multiple protrusions (the bathroom addition and the bay window bump-out), and two windows in it that all get in the way when trying to line the siding up, and if extreme care is not taken in laying out reference lines and following them, the siding coming up past the various protrusions and window openings may not line up when you try to put the next course on over each protrusion/opening. Very annoying. Anyways - after much staring, muttering, measuring, marking, mason twine, measuring, and more marking, I got the second section of starter strip in place (theoretically on the same reference line as the first one...) and began siding up past the bathroom and bay window in the middle, following my layout lines. Each of these pieces took way too long to cut and test fit as they have a different angle at each end can't really be test-fitted effectively until they're either the right size or too small and must be cut longerthrown out and started over from scratch.


I called it a night at that point because I couldn't feel my fingers anymore. Since I'm past the worst of the siding now I hope to finish the bay window bump-out J channel work tomorrow morning, then get the upstairs window J channel done and finish siding this wall. Hopefully all the courses of siding line up where they're supposed to, or I have to redo it.

mcgreenvegtables
Nov 2, 2004
Yum!

kastein posted:

I actually haven't had gutters since 2011. They came off with the old roof and haven't gone back on yet. Debating not putting them back on, or going with rainhandler style louvers, or putting traditional gutters on.

Not putting on gutters--even if you don't actually need them-- sounds like the fastest way possible to trigger a buyer's home inspector.

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.






mcgreenvegtables posted:

Not putting on gutters--even if you don't actually need them-- sounds like the fastest way possible to trigger a buyer's home inspector.

Is that an Eastern US/Regional thing? Out here in the Phoenix area, it's really rare for a house to have gutters, and when they do, it's normally something that an owner has added, not the builder.

immoral_
Oct 20, 2007

So fresh and so clean.



Young Orc

Well, yeah, but that's because Arizona gets rain like two times a year.

And only on days that you are loading a moving van.

No I'm not bitter or anything.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Yeah it rains its dick off out here.

Good point about the home inspector, I guess I'll look into what it'll cost.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

MESS WITH THE OWL GET DISEMBOWEL





The bigger part I think is to do gutters properly they need to drain out and away from the foundation down-slope, so it can get pricey/time consuming/impractical to do all that drainage.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Luckily my lot is nice and steep so I can drain most of it easily enough. Only one might be difficult.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

MESS WITH THE OWL GET DISEMBOWEL





Then I'd say it's worth doing, gutter stuff is a bit of a kick in the pants, but not terrible. It's really nice to get all that water diverted away from the foundation, and from splashing on the bottoms of the wall.

I'd caution against using any sort of leaf screening product, a lot of them work by rendering your gutters completely useless (guess how I know that)

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


This was done Thursday but I didn't take pictures because it was already dark.


It's scary how much it doesn't look like my house.

So I took one last set of measurements, marked layout lines everywhere up to the window tops where I hadn't sided yet, and...



And here's why that was a total pain in the rear end, this little strip of siding coming up around the other side needed to end up exactly level with the rest, something like 16 feet up. Doesn't leave much room for error, especially on narrow pieces of siding like this where it's super easy to accidentally stretch it vertically while nailing it in place:


But I succeeded in making it work out, the last course coming up the left side there was about 1/8" too low, which isn't really much, and I was able to conceal it by careful placement of a butt joint that took up about 1/16" of it and then the next course finished the rest.

Also as of right now I have finished ripping things off this house forever, so the wrecking bars can now get packed.


Behold, my ultra sketchy ladder on top of ultra sketchy scaffolding. The ratchet strap is for safety, you see.


Housewrap done:


Siding on this wall also done:



I don't think the house has had this much siding on it since 2011. Maybe even 2010.

tetrapyloctomy
Feb 18, 2003

Okay -- you talk WAY too fast.

Nap Ghost

It really looks great. It's sort of a shame that when this is done the house will be in the best shape it ever will be again. No one will ever treat it with as much care and thought as you have.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


Scrolling through I noticed how a piece of siding was bowing out and wondered if you noticed. Turns out it's for safety.

Looking good!

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Yeah, once I'm done with the soffits I'll unscrew the giant eyebolt and snap that siding on right . I've done this on two gables where I had no good footing for my ladder and didn't want to ride it 15 feet down if it went off the edge of the scaffolding or porch roof.

Thanks!

Jealous Cow
Apr 4, 2002
I often times speak without thinking

Whatís up with that monstrosity down the hill? Is it an apartment building?

Also, I didnít realize that house was so close to civilization. I sort of pictured it as in a very rural area.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Yeah a lot of people get confused by that, even if they visit. In the summer we're surrounded by trees and you can really only see a few houses in that direction, the other 3 sides it's just trees. Then fall comes and you realize you can see half the town from here.

That is a new England specialty known as the triple-decker. It's a style of apartment construction that was common in the 1800s and early 1900s, typically each floor has 1 or 2 apartments in it. They were balloon framed and generally are in poor condition these days so they are firetraps.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

kastein posted:

Yeah a lot of people get confused by that, even if they visit. In the summer we're surrounded by trees and you can really only see a few houses in that direction, the other 3 sides it's just trees. Then fall comes and you realize you can see half the town from here.

That is a new England specialty known as the triple-decker. It's a style of apartment construction that was common in the 1800s and early 1900s, typically each floor has 1 or 2 apartments in it. They were balloon framed and generally are in poor condition these days so they are firetraps.

Aka half of New Bedford and Fall River (and Springfield, Worcester, etc). They are awful places to live.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


In my head I always thought you lived like 40 miles from any other living soul.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


I'm sure the other living souls wish you were right.

Anyways. With the snowpocalypse bearing down on us I decided I needed to get the hardest to reach sections of siding and soffits done so I could stop worrying about if I would get a chance to do them before it's time to pack and leave. So I did that...
Soffits, barge boards done, safety eyebolt removed, housewrap patched and siding zipped back together


And that means the scaffolding is no longer needed because I can reach the remaining areas that need work with a single ladder. So...

Looks a lot better already.

Then went and did the same thing on the gable above the porch roof, since it's the next most sketchy area to set a ladder in snow:


Then we got like a foot of snow the next day so I've been doing inside work and building Christmas presents since then. Nothing big enough to bother putting pics up though.

Darchangel
Feb 12, 2009

Tell him about the blower!




kastein posted:

Then we got like a foot of snow the next day so I've been doing inside work and building Christmas presents since then. Nothing big enough to bother putting pics up though.

I like the implications of this. Who knows what might come out...

edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyeHlZ_kPtU

Darchangel fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Dec 18, 2020

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kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Darchangel posted:

I like the implications of this. Who knows what might come out...

Well I'm pretty sure the only person on SA who knows the person I'm gifting this to is Safety Dance, so please don't show it to them.

It's a wall mounted coatrack. For budgetary and plague reasons we did a family secret Santa regifting/crafting thing instead of buying each other expensive things and exchanging them in person this year. And since it's copper it's naturally more antibiotic and anti-SARS-2 than most coatracks you can buy, which will probably be a hit with the recipient. I only had to buy like a dozen fittings to finish it, the rest was extra stock from building the house. Some research papers I read indicated that it should kill all virus on its surface within 5 hours, which means one more commonly touched surface on the way in and out of the house to not have to worry about cleaning.

In progress:


Done and all flux wiped off:


I don't know if he wants to polish it, or patina it, or polyurethane, or what, so I'm leaving it rough other than cleaning the caustic chemicals off.

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