p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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blorpy: Jan 5, 2005

stop telling sulk to learn new languages. he's already given up at like 3 of them

# ? Apr 27, 2012 03:57

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 06:45

git apologist: Jun 4, 2003

Just tell Sulk to get out

# ? Apr 27, 2012 04:00

graph: Nov 22, 2006; aaag peanuts

Gentle Autist posted:

Just tell Sulk to get out

# ? Apr 27, 2012 04:01

blorpy: Jan 5, 2005

Gentle Autist posted:

Just tell Sulk to get out

# ? Apr 27, 2012 04:03

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

Markov Chain Chomp posted:

stop telling sulk to learn new languages. he's already given up at like 3 of them

wish you'd give up at english so you'd be posting in japanese and then we could ban you for anime

# ? Apr 27, 2012 04:06

git apologist: Jun 4, 2003

Programmers > 40 how much has your job changed over the course of your career

Did you ever consciously have to go learn something off the clock to make a career move or did you just change jobs/roles as they came up

Do you think you'll keep programming until you retire

# ? Apr 27, 2012 04:06

blorpy: Jan 5, 2005

Luigi Thirty posted:

wish you'd give up at english so you'd be posting in japanese and then we could ban you for anime

what the gently caress does this even mean

# ? Apr 27, 2012 04:07

graph: Nov 22, 2006; aaag peanuts

Markov Chain Chomp posted:

what the gently caress does this even mean

middlin tier

# ? Apr 27, 2012 04:14

Necc0: Jun 30, 2005; by exmarx; Broken Cake

Anal Tributary posted:

i'd like to learn c, or maybe lisp, but i don't have anything i'm working on that would really benefit from another language, or any projects i want to start that could use another language.

once you learn a few real languages you'll look back at this moment and laugh

# ? Apr 27, 2012 04:22

post hole digger: Mar 21, 2011

good thread all,. really learning some stuff about programing, and, even, myself.

# ? Apr 27, 2012 04:31

Necc0: Jun 30, 2005; by exmarx; Broken Cake

Sulk posted:

is there a book on algorithms/data structures which is actually comprehensible without needing to know a shitload of math

lmao this thread is full of great ones

# ? Apr 27, 2012 04:31

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Gentle Autist posted:

Programmers > 40 how much has your job changed over the course of your career

Did you ever consciously have to go learn something off the clock to make a career move or did you just change jobs/roles as they came up

me: "hmm. i could do this thing in a different language to teach myself. But is that really best for the product? Naw. But then again, my resume ... ok welp, gently caress the product, where's the o'reilly book for this?"

guy two years later: "why do we have so many dependancies?"

# ? Apr 27, 2012 04:36

Police Academy III: Nov 4, 2011

Internaut! posted:

I've always wanted to learn a lisp and clojure seemed like a good one

any benefits other than the java integration? I dunno lisp dialects

clojure's the most "modern" lisp and doesn't have alot of the cruft and implementation issues that CL and Scheme have. It's also got a lot of nice features like data structures as functions and super cool lambda syntax adn lots of nice functional programming stuff, and a heavy focus on concurrency which i've never cared about but you might. It does have a lot of dumb problems though, e.g:

(= false (contains? [3 3 3] 3))
terrible stack traces (although they used to be worse!)
p much everything to do with strings
have to call out to java libraries even for simple stuff like Math/sqrt
terrible docs
i still don't know nor care what the difference between refs, vars, atoms, and agents is

anyway on the whole i'd say go for it, but just be prepared to want to pull your hair out until you get into the swing of it.

# ? Apr 27, 2012 04:47

TiMBuS: Sep 25, 2007; LOL WUT?

the only lisp i have ever liked is picolisp. no others even come close

# ? Apr 27, 2012 11:52

TiMBuS: Sep 25, 2007; LOL WUT?

but this is the pl thread. picolisp is not the real pl. perl is. C was named after B because it was the second letter in BCPL. B->C->PL. PL is thus the true successor to C. learn perl.

# ? Apr 27, 2012 12:13

TiMBuS: Sep 25, 2007; LOL WUT?

i correct myself. you do not need to 'learn' perl; you probably already know it. just type any random poo poo into a text file and perl will probably execute it.
even babies type perl perfectly.

but seriously its good

# ? Apr 27, 2012 12:16

newreply.php: Dec 24, 2009; Pillbug

no scripting languages please

# ? Apr 27, 2012 12:58

Jonny 290: May 5, 2005; [ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

the perl of great price

# ? Apr 27, 2012 13:00

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

perls before swine

# ? Apr 27, 2012 13:41

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzkRVzciAZg

# ? Apr 27, 2012 13:41

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

somewhat ironically, the stuff about a flat world being common belief is horseshit that the video creator is parroting out of ignorance

# ? Apr 27, 2012 13:46

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

I liked 'the ghetto' more

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY-IueSMAPc

# ? Apr 27, 2012 13:47

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

tef posted:

I liked 'the ghetto' more

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY-IueSMAPc

the back story for that is pretty hilarious

# ? Apr 27, 2012 14:09

Kaelan Zero: Nov 30, 2004; smut

Sulk posted:

clicked link, safari died

Fren posted:

lol

Sorry about that, Safari's JS runtime is really fussy and I can't debug it because the Web Inspector crashes. Every other browser I've tried works (IE9, Firefox, Chrome, Opera).

Thanks for trying it.

# ? Apr 27, 2012 14:23

jooky: Jan 15, 2003

tef posted:

I liked 'the ghetto' more

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY-IueSMAPc

this owns

# ? Apr 27, 2012 14:24

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

BonzoESC posted:

the back story for that is pretty hilarious

isn't it just a whiny ruby crank wrote a blog post

# ? Apr 27, 2012 15:04

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

tef posted:

isn't it just a whiny ruby crank wrote a blog post

whiny ruby/erlang crank who is a good friend of mine

# ? Apr 27, 2012 15:11

Dr. Honked: Jan 9, 2011; eat it you slaaaaaaag

Gentle Autist posted:

Programmers > 40 how much has your job changed over the course of your career

Did you ever consciously have to go learn something off the clock to make a career move or did you just change jobs/roles as they came up

Do you think you'll keep programming until you retire

- a lot, for the better, there are so many nice tools, technologies, and methodologies around now, computers don't suck as much, and the games industry is slowly maturing and becoming a much better place to work

- the only time i ever learned something off the clock for non-fun purposes was when i got my first job programming in C in 1988 or some poo poo. the interview was like this: "can you program in C?" "<lie> yes" "can you start monday?" so i ran straight out and bought a copy of K&R, read it over the weekend and welp that is my story cheers

- yes, and beyond, if i ever stop programming i will probably just drop dead

# ? Apr 27, 2012 15:33

skeevy achievements: Feb 25, 2008; by merry exmarx

Police Academy III posted:

a heavy focus on concurrency which i've never cared about but you might

thanks that's exactly what I'm looking for

I don't mind writing muteness and semaphores but gently caress writing tests for them and god forbid debugging them

# ? Apr 27, 2012 16:18

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

BonzoESC posted:

don't write asm, that's what compilers are for

im in the middle of trying to convince abunch of ppl this is tru

# ? Apr 27, 2012 16:30

trex eaterofcadrs: Jun 17, 2005; My lack of understanding is only exceeded by my lack of concern.

Police Academy III posted:

clojure's the most "modern" lisp and doesn't have alot of the cruft and implementation issues that CL and Scheme have. It's also got a lot of nice features like data structures as functions and super cool lambda syntax adn lots of nice functional programming stuff, and a heavy focus on concurrency which i've never cared about but you might. It does have a lot of dumb problems though, e.g:

(= false (contains? [3 3 3] 3))

terrible stack traces (although they used to be worse!)

p much everything to do with strings

have to call out to java libraries even for simple stuff like Math/sqrt

terrible docs

i still don't know nor care what the difference between refs, vars, atoms, and agents is

anyway on the whole i'd say go for it, but just be prepared to want to pull your hair out until you get into the swing of it.

contains? is kind of weird but it does help you not do a O(n) search of the vector. this is a stupid name for that call, i def agree
stack traces are what they are: awful and very java specific. Things got better with 1.3/1.4 but you still should know some java to be able to really understand wtf is going on. also download the source from github, it has helped me a lot, error messages sometimes don't make a lot of sense when a you call a macro incorrectly, and it blurts out a bunch of bullshit about Var cannot be cast to ISeq or w/e
strings aren't so bad... What issues did you have? all clojure strings are java.lang.String so they're easy to work with imo
the java math stuff isn't too bad, and you can always remap Math/sqrt to (defn sqrt Math/sqrt) or use a library
re: docs, i use clojuredocs.org and it's much better than clojure.org's poo poo
vars are just bindings, you can make them thread local if you need, refs are STM backed vars, agents are a FIFO queue, thread pooled, STM system, and atoms are like synchronous agents, i think. i've never used atoms.

clojure rules because it has a really strong focus on high quality, robust and fast data structures, and it has just a tad of syntax for using them literally (eg. [] vector {} map #{} set '() list), and the ISeq interface makes dealing with them really nice. working with any kind of complex data structure is much easier in clojure than any other language i've ever worked with

clojure has kind of a cool ecosystem too, check out incanter or core.logic for example

there's my carepost for the day

# ? Apr 27, 2012 16:45

Police Academy III: Nov 4, 2011

my biggest gripe with strings is that all the standard seq functions convert strings into lazy seqs of characters which don't work when you need a string. (not= "aaa" (reverse "aaa")) is pretty annoying, and my code always ends up looking like

code:

   (apply str
    (for [[name type] (partition 2 decls)]
      (str (apply str (rest (str type))) " " name ";\n")))

they should've either had seq operations on strings return strings, have seqs of chars implicitly convert to strings, or just used seqs of chars as the basic string type a la haskell. as it is it's just janky and unpleasant.

that said clojure's pretty cool despite its faults. i kinda want to dig up what little i know of prolog and do something with core.logic, if only i can think of something

# ? Apr 27, 2012 17:12

Catalyst-proof: May 11, 2011; better waste some time with you

I want to jump from Common Lisp to clojure but i hate working with the java runtime. like i need to run lein and poo poo and i need a project.clj and all that dumb poo poo. i can't just start throwing poo poo into a file like common lisp. also the syntax is less unified and all the [vector] and {hash} poo poo throws me off because i'm used to everything being in parens

# ? Apr 27, 2012 17:18

ppp: Feb 13, 2012; by angerbot

java is a piece of poo poo on unix

# ? Apr 27, 2012 17:43

Police Academy III: Nov 4, 2011

Fren posted:

I want to jump from Common Lisp to clojure but i hate working with the java runtime. like i need to run lein and poo poo and i need a project.clj and all that dumb poo poo. i can't just start throwing poo poo into a file like common lisp. also the syntax is less unified and all the [vector] and {hash} poo poo throws me off because i'm used to everything being in parens

um, you definitely can just throw poo poo into a file w/o worrying about lein and all that poo poo, that's 90% of what i've done w/ clojure. and the []'s and {}'s own since they provide some visual variety and make it easier to pick out lets and such. basically what i'm saying is u should learn clojure since its pretty cool

# ? Apr 27, 2012 17:53

ppp: Feb 13, 2012; by angerbot

i dont think ill ever use emacs if it switches to clojure

# ? Apr 27, 2012 17:56

CaptainMeatpants: Jun 1, 2010

ppp posted:

i dont think ill ever use emacs

# ? Apr 27, 2012 17:58

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

ppp posted:

java is a piece of poo poo on unix

also on windows, probably beos

# ? Apr 27, 2012 17:59

ppp: Feb 13, 2012; by angerbot

on fbsd you have to compile a broken limited jvm (diablojdk) which i believe the fbsd foundation actually paid money to license, then with that compile the jdk. also you can't install it via packages because you aren't allowed to, and you can't automate it because you have to accept the license file and i believe manually dl the jdk tarball.

# ? Apr 27, 2012 18:04

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 06:45

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

ppp posted:

java is a piece of poo poo on unix

actually its the unix thats poo poo. also dont use non-oracle vms

# ? Apr 27, 2012 18:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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