English Defence League: the (white) pride of the UK

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > English Defence League: the (white) pride of the UK

KayTee: May 5, 2012; Whachoodoin?

Got some legitimisation:

As a new poster I'm a bit overwhelmed by SA - I've searched for topics about the EDL and found nothing but a few posts in the UK Megathread which is now dead, according to the IMG'd poster. So - Please don't E-kill me. Please do direct me to any existing EDL threads that I didn't find, though.

I'm a bit of a fan of the EDL because they are loving hilarious. I've thrown together this thread to share my observations of them - a good three years of observations, and to gather some alternative views.

For example - Should the EDL be proscribed by the government?

They have a right to free speech and peaceful protest - sure. But so do MAC/Al Muhajiroun/Islam4UK. And they're all banned. And they didn't do this: http://youtu.be/TxdTEVzzr_s which (was) a typical EDL protest. (Granted they're more 'peaceful' now, because the police presence usually outnumbers them - but they still get up to some mischief: http://tinyurl.com/d5ql5am )

There is no law against being a gigantic prick in public. But, apparently being a gigantic prick and smashing up a family eatery is A-OKAY, but being a gigantic prick and being Muslim means you get the banhammer.

I've got a big old "Newbies introduction to the EDL" post that I can share if people want it. As well as a wealth of stories over their daft exercises across the UK that I can share. And I hope to update this thread with current trends Like Tommeh's recent promotion to Deputy head of the British Freedom Party (Got an intro post for them too if you're interested). The BFP are a massive force on UK politics now. According to them. I mean they had a whole 17 votes in Liverpool County.

But hay - Maybe I'm a rose-tinted-glasses-wearing ,yoghurt weaving, mung bean eating, corduroy and sandals wearing, basket weaving loonie lefty and I just don't know what the real world is like and I'm just as brainwashed by http://edlnews.co.uk/ as Tommeh is by http://barenakedislam.com/

Who knows.

Any thoughts or questions?

Plese don't E-kill me.

KayTee fucked around with this message at 14:50 on May 7, 2012

# ? May 7, 2012 14:14

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# ? Apr 24, 2024 04:24

Bryter: Nov 6, 2011; but since we are small we may-
uh, we may be the losers

KayTee posted:

They have a right to free speech and peaceful protest - sure. But so do MAC/Al Muhajiroun/Islam4UK. And they're all banned.

It's disingenuous, or profoundly ignorant, to suggest that a group representing the interests of the country shouldn't be afforded more rights than those groups who want to destroy it and all it stands for.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

# ? May 7, 2012 14:19

Augure: Jan 9, 2011; by Y Kant Ozma Boo

Bryter posted:

It's disingenuous, or profoundly ignorant, to suggest that a group representing the interests of the country shouldn't be afforded more rights than those groups who want to destroy it and all it stands for.

I honestly can't tell which of these you think is the "group representing the interests of the country."

# ? May 7, 2012 14:21

zeroprime: Mar 25, 2006; Words go here.; Fun Shoe

KayTee posted:

I've got a big old "Newbies introduction to the EDL" post that I can share if people want it.

That would probably be helpful for a lot of us non-UK folks.

zeroprime fucked around with this message at 15:41 on May 7, 2012

# ? May 7, 2012 14:21

ts12: Jul 24, 2007

Didn't Breivik have ties or something to the EDL or was that someone else/not true? Also this thread has the worst title god drat

# ? May 7, 2012 14:25

Vando: Oct 26, 2007; stoats about

OP, in answer to your question of what to do re: the EDL, the answer is simple: where you see the fash, you must be quick to bash.

# ? May 7, 2012 14:27

KELNOR THE OVERWASP: Jul 1, 2005; CULTURAL IMPERIALIST.
ask me about being white and privileged in china

Good video for showing how the police love to treat fascists with kid gloves. Advising the victims of attack to stay clear of the windows, letting the edl run off, even the one the dog manages to get.

# ? May 7, 2012 14:31

KayTee: May 5, 2012; Whachoodoin?

Bryter posted:

It's disingenuous, or profoundly ignorant, to suggest that a group representing the interests of the country shouldn't be afforded more rights than those groups who want to destroy it and all it stands for.

MAC had, at best, a cricket teams worth of followers. Saiful Islam and Anjem Choudary are banned from preaching in mosques in the UK. It's not as though these people were accepted by the communities they claimed to represent.

I find it as distasteful as anyone else but people have the right to say poo poo we don't like - so long as they do it in a nonviolent manner.

MAC's biggest criminal act was starting a wastepaper bin fire. They burned poppies. Now; As disrespectful as that is they have the right to do it. (And the poppies they burned were the big old �5 ones. So they actually did donate a fair bit more than the average bloke to the RBL)

For over the pond examples: Bryan Fischer, Pat Roberson and Fred Phelps. Utterly reprehensible creatures, but with the right to say poo poo people will argue with.

As an aside - The EDL's token brown spokeman Guramit Singh was threatened with discomminication from the Sikh faith for his part in the EDL's early years ( http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/12404 ) You can argue that no high-level Immam has tried to discomminicate Abu Hamza. It's all resting on this weirdly blurry "freedom of speech" line.

Thing is - MAC, as reprehensible as their views were (are - they haven't gone away, they just call themselves something else now) they didn't perform the actions as demonstrated by the EDL attacking Big John's. Nor did they rack up ludicrous policing bills. The EDL are still allowed to exploit their "right to peaceful taxpayer-finded pissups" MAC whose impact on Luton/London's taxpater bill was no more than a small village fate.

And yet, the EDL have their own political party. and MAC are banned. Go figure.

KayTee fucked around with this message at 14:57 on May 7, 2012

# ? May 7, 2012 14:35

Bryter: Nov 6, 2011; but since we are small we may-
uh, we may be the losers

Augure posted:

I honestly can't tell which of these you think is the "group representing the interests of the country."

Okay, honestly, I don't care for any of those mentioned, but this thread isn't going to go anywhere productive if you approach it from a "the EDL are loving hilarious" perspective. They're a sideshow with very limited support or power, and there are far more powerful entities currently doing far worse things than the EDL will ever be in a position to.

Laughing in particular isn't conducive to stopping them.

# ? May 7, 2012 14:38

KayTee: May 5, 2012; Whachoodoin?

ts12 posted:

Didn't Breivik have ties or something to the EDL or was that someone else/not true? Also this thread has the worst title god drat

He did.

Tommy Robinson, leader of the EDL and his Uncle Kev Carrol both received copies of his manifesto. As did several other EDL higher-ups.

zeroprime posted:

You may want to do that before you get probated for signing your post.

Sure...

Tl;dr: Check the video right at the end.

Did you know that England is under threat? Every day law-abiding, native British citizens are assaulted by Islamic extremism, sharia law, halal foods and burkas. Thankfully, there are those special few courageous people ready to place themselves on the front line of the war against Islamic extremism. Brave, valiant patriots who take to the streets to show the islamists that we shall not bow to sahria law! That we shall not be forced to consume halal products! And that we shall not be placed in burkas!

These brave people are the English Defence League. The glorious EDL.

Here, EDL spokesperson Ryan McGarvey explains why he, personally, is taking part in an EDL march.

http://youtu.be/kjuNuqIev8M

Yeah...

Dance version:
http://youtu.be/AIPD8qHhtVU

Muslamic Ray Guns are now standard equipment to the opponents of the EDL. We use them to transform food halal, turn judges into sharia islamists and turn swimsuits into burkas.

The EDL is a collection of racists, football hooligans, neo-Nazis and varied far-right extremists. They are chronically misinformed, wilfully ignorant and blatantly racist. Every few weeks they head out into large towns and cities in the UK to �protest� against extremist Islam, apparently under the impression that everyone else supports extremism and that the best way to defeat it is to waste public money by creating obscene police bills, causing great damage to public buildings and property and losing local businesses vast amounts of trade.

They have been around for almost three years now, and have protested in many major cities with large ethnic minorities such as Birmingham, Leeds, Luton, Liverpool and sections of London such as Tower Hamlets. I�ll get to the protests later, but first let�s look at the people who run and form the EDL. You�d be correct in thinking that the meme-spawning idiot in the video above is not typical of an EDL member. But he�s not far off.

This is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon.

He is most often known by his pseudonym: Tommy Robinson. The name �Tommy Robinson� is an homage to a famous football hooligan in Luton in the mid 70�s

�Tommy� is an Ex-BNP member (The BNP, British National Party, is the current face of what was the British National Front. It is part of the last, dying remnants of far-right Nazi/fascist political parties in the UK) He had, prior to his creation of the EDL, convictions for resisting arrest, possessing cocaine and assault occasioning actual bodily harm, specifically on his then partner one Jenna Vowles.

In the spoiler is a video demonstrating how the EDL defend us from Islamic extremism, specifically in this case from a family take-away that serves Halal food:

http://youtu.be/TxdTEVzzr_s

Let�s look at their �Mission Statement� from their website: ( http://englishdefenceleague.org/about-us/mission-statement/ )

quote:

(1) HUMAN RIGHTS: Protecting And Promoting Human Rights

The English Defence League (EDL) is a human rights organisation

... says it all, doesn�t it. A �human rights� organisation that performs as you�ve seen above. A �human rights� organisation that encourages behaviour such as this:

http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/u/u...26extra_params=

If you can�t bear to watch this video of EDL�s Yorkshire division, their chants include gems like:

�Allah is a pedo�
�Let�s go kill a Muslim�
�Muslim pedos off our streets�
�Let�s go fuckin� mental�
�Burn a poppy, we�ll burn your mosque!�
And the ever popular:
�Allah! Allah! Who the gently caress is Allah?�

Mixed in with chants of �Eng-er-land�

quote:

[The EDL was] founded in the wake of the shocking actions of a small group of Muslim extremists who, at a homecoming parade in Luton, openly mocked the sacrifices of our service personnel without any fear of censure.

Because: freedom of speech. The EDL have a problem understanding freedom of speech. It seems to boil down to �you have freedom of speech, so long as you don�t say anything we don�t like.�

quote:

The EDL calls upon the Government to repeal legislation that prevents effective freedom of speech, for freedom of speech is essential if the human rights abuses that sometimes manifest themselves around Islam are to be stopped.

�I mean if we call people pakis or niggers, or claim loudly that any Muslim we meet is a pedo terrorist, we get arrested. It�s a two-tier system!�

quote:

(2) DEMOCRACY AND THE RULE OF LAW: Promoting Democracy And The Rule Of Law By Opposing Sharia
The European Court of Human Rights has declared that �sharia is incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy�. Despite this, there are still those who are more than willing to accommodate sharia norms, and who believe that sharia can operate in partnership with our existing traditions and customs. In reality, sharia cannot operate fully as anything other than a complete alternative to our existing legal, political, and social systems. It is a revolution that this country does not want, and one that it must resist. Sharia is most definitely a threat to our democracy.

This is, of course, written under the assumption that not only are 4% of the population capable of overthrowing British law and substituting Sharia, but that this process is actually happening. They are often quoted as being opposed to Sharia Law courts operating in the UK. No such thing happens, we do, however, have Sharia reparation courts that deal with civil cases. We also have Beth Din reparation courts that cater to the UK�s Jewish population. These courts are rarely used because, surprise, surprise, they are atrociously unfair, outdated and mostly irrelevant.

United Shades of Britan has written a wonderful article addressing what steps would have to be undertaken in order to implement Sharia law in the UK: http://www.edlnews.co.uk/could-sharia-law-ever-become-uk-law

However, rather than listen to reason, or do some research into the topic, the EDL would rather assume that stunts like this (Daily Mail link, you have been warned)by extremist islamic groups (Specifically in this case Anjem Choudary and Muslims Against Crusades (MAC) an extremist group that can barely fill a minibus but serves as superb trollbait for the Mail and the EDL) somehow constitute actual changes in British law.

quote:

the stealthy incursion of halal meat into the food industry, all demonstrate that sharia is already creeping into our lives.

Classic and typical, almost deliberate, misunderstanding of what Halal is. Something that Pam Geller is also promoting in her ludicrous Butterball Turkey ban you might be familiar with. ( http://blog.chron.com/thestraightpath/2011/11/oh-the-irony-pamela-geller-and-the-stealth-halal-turkeys/ ) You�ll note the phrase �Stelth infiltration� remains the same.

Nothing has been done to your glass of water to make that Halal, for example. And Halal slaughter is no less, or more, humane than regular slaughter methods.

quote:

(3) PUBLIC EDUCATION: Ensuring That The Public Get A Balanced Picture Of Islam
A central part of the EDL�s mission is public education.

I do not even need to touch this, do I? It�s blatantly clear that the EDL itself is vastly ignorant and uneducated itself over those very things it is most concerned with. They are ignorant to the absolute extreme.

quote:

(4) RESPECTING TRADITION: Promoting The Traditions And Culture Of England While At The Same Time Being Open To Embrace The Best That Other Cultures Can Offer

This refers to varied �Christmas has been banned� nonsense that often finds its way into desperately ignorant, xenophobic culture. It has no basis in reality. From British flags being banned from positions of prominence, to Christmas Trees being renamed to �Holiday Trees�. A simple google search will inform you of the truth behind this nonsense.

quote:

(5) INTERNATIONAL OUTLOOK: Working In Solidarity With Others Around The World

This, at least, is true. The EDL does have international links... Specifically with Anders Breivik, the islamophobic murderer of 69 youths at the Oslo Labour Party youth camp.

This article is getting pretty long now, so I�ll draw it to a close just now with a link to a video of Tommy Robinson being interviewed on BBC�s Newsnight following the Oslo attacks.

If you watch one video on this article, please make it this one, it includes excellent information on the EDL and is a wonderful piece of work.

This post is far from complete. Laughing at the EDL is possible, despite their horrific nature and performances. Future posts will include developments relating to the EDL and the newly-formed British Freedom Party, as well as some things to giggle about.

Till then: Please enjoy:

http://youtu.be/wEDYtlS2YL8me

ETA:

Bryter posted:

Okay, honestly, I don't care for any of those mentioned, but this thread isn't going to go anywhere productive if you approach it from a "the EDL are loving hilarious" perspective. They're a sideshow with very limited support or power, and there are far more powerful entities currently doing far worse things than the EDL will ever be in a position to.

Laughing in particular isn't conducive to stopping them.

Cool. I get this. As much as I will push the idea that the basic EDL rhetoric is ludicrous and comical, as are their actions and statements... There is nothing funny about the Big John's video above.

Myself and others who engage in EDL-bashing, if you wanna call it that, see the EDL as a symptom of a larger anti-islamic trend in society in general. I figure by mocking the extreme we can have an effect on the moderates. Tommeh does a superb job of being the public face and voice of this movement, his rhetoric is as typical, ill-informed and extreme in stupidity and prejudice as you can get - yet somehow he is still the go-to guy for "What if the muslamics are being naughty" news stories.

I try to use humour as a defanging technique with my work against them. (I say "work") That's my angle.

KayTee fucked around with this message at 14:49 on May 7, 2012

# ? May 7, 2012 14:42

Z-Magic: Feb 19, 2011; They talk about the people and the proletariat, I talk about the suckers and the mugs - it's the same thing. They have their five-year plans, so have I.

Bryter posted:

Laughing in particular isn't conducive to stopping them.

I agree with the 'bash the fash' sentiment, however:

No EDL discussion is complete without the following picture (taken at an EDL rally in my hometown).

# ? May 7, 2012 14:45

KELNOR THE OVERWASP: Jul 1, 2005; CULTURAL IMPERIALIST.
ask me about being white and privileged in china

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kC7xF5CHVI&feature=related

A good video because he does a superficially convincing job of projecting himself in a good light, but then it gets to the end.

# ? May 7, 2012 14:46

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

KayTee posted:

I've got a big old "Newbies introduction to the EDL" post that I can share if people want it. As well as a wealth of stories over their daft exercises across the UK that I can share.

I'm a newbie to this, what is this introduction post?

e: you posted it. Cheers!

quote:

Any thoughts or questions?

Plese don't E-kill me.

Kev.

You signed your post? :allears:

I am rather confused by the OP and not sure what you are driving at. Is one group favored by the other? Does one group enjoy more free speech than the other?

# ? May 7, 2012 14:46

KayTee: May 5, 2012; Whachoodoin?

Highspeeddub posted:

You signed your post?

I did not know that this was a thing that was not done.

quote:

I am rather confused by the OP and not sure what you are driving at. Is one group favored by the other? Does one group enjoy more free speech than the other?

My angle is that the EDL are a diversive and destructive force. They are a seemingly popular movement that use the pretence of "Islam is bad" in order to justify their attempt to carry on the 60-70's notions of "paki bashing". They are violent racists who use a media-produced fear of Islam as a cover for their personal hatred of brown people.

I use the banning of MAC as a highlight to double-standards. MAC is banned. But their rhetoric (I have used that word more times in this thread than I have used it in speech this entire year, I'm sure) is no less divisive, racist or prejudiced. It was also about as accepted by society as a whole. Yet MAC is banned and the EDL has morphed into the British Freedom Party and are now an official political force.

I'm just highlighting what I perceive to be a double standard.

British Freedom Party Intro Post in 3... 2...

# ? May 7, 2012 15:07

KayTee: May 5, 2012; Whachoodoin?

1...

This is the British Freedom Party

They are an off-shoot of the BNP and various other far-right political movements who have openly courted the EDL to boost their numbers and perceived�popularity.

Quite why we need a political party openly supporting this�is beyond me...

This is their "20-point Plan" (Absolutely�not related to any form of bullet-point�program�used by other�regimes. Nosiree)

To me, all this demonstrates is the utter political�naivete�of the BFP. It also demonstrates that the BF do not know the difference between a "plan" and a "wishlist"

Nevertheless, I was on their Facebook page�the other day and I spotted this rather intriguing�conversation.

It's a BFP Question Time! Glorious!

Rather fantastically, a Mr. Chris West went through the plan point-by-point expressing his concerns.

What caught my attention more, however, was the page admin's�response.

Here it is... Along with a few comments from myself.

First off:

quote:

"Although you appear to be a leftist [...] I think you deserve a�response"

Apparently normal procedure in BFP politics is to utterly ignore comments from political opponents. :/

quote:

"2, [...]�EU Exit�Strategies."

Give this a browse yourselves. I'll openly admit that I'm a�complete�newb when it comes to EU policies and this sort of thing. Pop your observations in the comments if you wish - I'm a working-class�cis straight�white�male, everything everywhere is automatically catered to me (except for financial�accessibility, that is) and nowhere in my life has a giant Euro flag jumped in to stop me from doing anything.

I just need some form of�personal�experience grounding before I can form a direct opinion on such a�complex, vague issue.

quote:

�"4) Would be fair if all UK citizens were banned from emigrating

Other countries' immigration policies are for them to decide,"

That's not the question being asked.

I'm also jumping ahead but point 20 is : �Do unto others as thou wouldst be done by.�

Perhaps it should be "Do unto others as thou wouldst be done by - unless you're an immigrant".

quote:

5) The deportation of seditious Islamics? - there goes the free speech (nice contradiction) although criminals should be sent packing or ideally treated see point 8

Read more carefully - "seditious dual nationality Islamists" - we're not stopping them from being seditious, merely insisting that they do it in the other country.

I don't even need to comment, really do I? "We're not denying their right to free speech, but if they're a filthy mongrel they'll have to have their free speech somewhere else"

Amazing...

Now on to what is probably my favourite one: ISLAMISATION!�

quote:

In Whitechapel Road, Tower Hamlets, all the restaurants are halal, and the bookshops Islamic. The banks (even Lloyds TSB) purvey Islamic bank accounts. There are unofficial sharia courts and women wearing burqas. Small mosques are proliferating, and the main East London mosque towers over the surrounding cityscape. On Friday, nobody - Muslim, Jew, Christian or atheist - can escape the call to prayer that blasts out from dozens of loudspeakers. Does that qualify as Islamisation? It's a pattern that is being repeated in many cities across the UK (though reportedly not in yours, lucky for you).

Now... Islamisation is,�supposedly, the method by which a country is turned Muslim. What I'm seeing here is an example of areas with a high�Muslim�population (Bearing in mind that they make up a mighty 4% of the population) being catered to by the area in which they live.

That's not Islamisation - that's just being nice. My friend is gluten intolerant. His house is filled with gluten-free products and he buys from gluten free shops. I do not accuse him of being a promoter of Anti-glutenisation.

Restaurants are halal because Muslims would rather eat halal food, and resteraunts want to make money off them.

Islamic bank accounts are usually nothing more serious than an account without an overdraft. I have one. They are marketed as Islamic because the bank wants to court Muslim customers in an area with a high�Muslim�population. Unofficial Sharia courts are not legally binding and will mostly deal with civil matters anyway - (My Dad and my neighbour came to an agreement over their parking�arrangements�- this is not an "unofficial Parking court")

quote:

Mosques 'tower over the cityscape'

- I hate the�Gherkin�but I wouldn't make it a political point to get my knickers in a twist over it.

quote:

"On Friday, nobody - Muslim, Jew, Christian or atheist - can escape the call to prayer that blasts out from dozens of loudspeakers."

- And the church bells in my village disturb my lie-ins every freaking�Sunday�- It's ONE day! Get�over�it.

quote:

�Does that qualify as Islamisation?

If it does it speaks more over your intolerance, ignorance and�prejudice than it does of a dramatic, enforced religio-cultural �shift.

quote:

8) Crime and severity of punishment does not go hand in hand. See the US as an example. Criminals need treatment, like an illness. Throwing people in prison costs society financially, breaks up families and causes repeat crime. Treatment of prisoners -Iceland as an example as some of the lowest crime rates in the world.

Not true, my brother-in-law once got mugged in Iceland, next to the frozen pies section.

Wow...

Amazing - Reply to a serious comment over the efficiency (or lack thereof) of the criminal justice system and the prison service in general with a poo poo joke.

TRULY THIS IS A POLITICAL PARTY OF THE FUTURE!�

quote:

The only hope for long-term peace and stability in Britain is a common culture and a shared set of values.

Under the British Freedom Party you will have the right to conform.

quote:

Wherever in the world incompatible cultures have lived in the same space they have ended up with conflict and bloodshed. We want to prevent that happening here.

Well, you're a bit too loving late,�aren't�you? Also I'd challenge you to point out a single utopian society in this world where everyone is the same and no one had a big old ruck over anything.

Seriously, the BFP really need to join reality on this point. Maybe I'm biased because I loving love�multiculturalism. It's given me Tikka Masala, lasagne, Reggae-Reggae Sauce, chillie on carne, Rammstein, Rap, Reggae Reggae Music and more.

You honestly think the world would be better off without this stuff?

quote:

14) How do you determine who should have aid and who shouldn't?

Well you can...

Woah there pilgrim!

What do you mean "Well you could..." Why are you guessing? Doesn't the party not already have these measuring criteria?

Huh, if this wasn't an actual�political�party I might assume that you've got your knickers in a twist over a popular point of contention and just screamed out "we must do something about this" as a way to ride the�coattails�of a popularist ideal without actually putting any thought into it..

But I'm sure that's not the case!

Anyway,�continue�with your guesswork. Who knows? It might actually become policy.

quote:

apply criteria such as: i. Is the country in question already wealthy as evidenced by, e.g. a space programme or thousands of millionaires?; ii. Is the country so corrupt that aid money is likely to end up in the pockets of crooked bureaucrats or criminals?; iii. Would we be able to help the country better by sharing our expertise in farming, industry and so on instead of throwing cash at them?

So - If a government is spending ludicrous amounts of money on it's richest people, and investing in extravagant, expensive projects whilst neglecting their populace, we should withdraw our aid, thereby almost certanly dooming that neglected populace to starvation, further exploitation, further neglect and all the happy packages that come along with it?

Wow... I know you're into the whole biblical justice thing (Do unto others etc). I've heard of "turn the other cheek" but I can't remember a bible passage teaching one to "turn the blind eye"

quote:

We want to ban [drugs] and to ensure that the ban is properly enforced.

Erm...�Aren't�they already illegal?

quote:

20)Why bring religion into this?? Better rule for the Atheists - ' Don't be a dick ' humans don't need the bible to tell them whats right and wrong. If you think your being a dick, generally you are.

"Do unto others as thou wouldst be done by" is a nicer way of saying "Don't be a dick."

You'll note that Chris's point was to avoid bringing religion into politics. That's why he was objecting to the bible passage. After all, according to Leviticus I should have been stoned to death many many times over in my lifetime. The bible is a�god-awful�(hurr) book to be basing your laws on, because of all the�interpretation�going on. Don't forget, this is the same�argument�your new friends constantly spew over the�Koran.

Well... There you have it. You'll note that Chris's comments on points 1, 3, 11, 12, 13, 15 and 16 are all ignored. Regardless of the rather significant and important points made in them.

But, to be honest, they don't need to be addressed, do they? You now know what the BFP are all about...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pele5vptVgc

# ? May 7, 2012 15:11

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

I'm still not 100% convinced the EDL aren't an entirely satirical performance art project on how not to do fascism.

Also "On Friday, nobody - Muslim, Jew, Christian or atheist - can escape the call to prayer that blasts out from dozens of loudspeakers." has clearly been written by someone who's never been down Whitechapel Road on a Friday.

# ? May 7, 2012 15:25

Starving Autist: Oct 20, 2007; by Ralp

Sorry, ignorant American here, but what the heck is Sharia finance?! There are similarly racist fucks over here whining about Sharia law, but Sharia finance?! Are there certain kinds of Muslim bookkeeping that are destroying the good old British ways or something? It's hard to believe this isn't all a big joke.

# ? May 7, 2012 15:35

Bryter: Nov 6, 2011; but since we are small we may-
uh, we may be the losers

Bill O'Riley is GENIUS posted:

Sorry, ignorant American here, but what the heck is Sharia finance?! There are similarly racist fucks over here whining about Sharia law, but Sharia finance?! Are there certain kinds of Muslim bookkeeping that are destroying the good old British ways or something? It's hard to believe this isn't all a big joke.

It's just finance that follows Sharia law. Sharia is an expansive legal system, it's not the Islamic Ten Commandments it's sometimes portrayed as.

# ? May 7, 2012 15:39

lorn Wayne: Jan 7, 2006

I like how the Human Rights Act apparently only benefits terrorists and foreign criminals.

Kinda reminds me of former NOTW reporter extraordinaire Paul McMullan and his Leveson statement that 'Privacy is for Pedos'. It's amazing how shitheads tend to use the same kind of simplistic thought process to justify their actions.

# ? May 7, 2012 15:41

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Bill O'Riley is GENIUS posted:

Sorry, ignorant American here, but what the heck is Sharia finance?! There are similarly racist fucks over here whining about Sharia law, but Sharia finance?! Are there certain kinds of Muslim bookkeeping that are destroying the good old British ways or something? It's hard to believe this isn't all a big joke.

It's a real thing and it's actually pretty cool.

Islam forbids the collection of interest on money (usury) as well as investment in non-halal industries so it developed its own system to allow money to be lend to people such as joint purchases by the bank and the 'borrower', bank accounts which don't pay interest, etc.

Of course it doesn't really exist any more and is not a threat to anything anyway.

# ? May 7, 2012 15:41

Darkman Fanpage: Jul 4, 2012

Bill O'Riley is GENIUS posted:

Sorry, ignorant American here, but what the heck is Sharia finance?! There are similarly racist fucks over here whining about Sharia law, but Sharia finance?! Are there certain kinds of Muslim bookkeeping that are destroying the good old British ways or something? It's hard to believe this isn't all a big joke.

Islamic banking

Wikipedia posted:

Islamic banking (or participant banking) (Arabic: المصرفية الإسلامية‎) is banking or banking activity that is consistent with the principles of Islamic law (Sharia) and its practical application through the development of Islamic economics. Sharia prohibits the fixed or floating payment or acceptance of specific interest or fees (known as riba or usury) for loans of money. Investing in businesses that provide goods or services considered contrary to Islamic principles is also haraam (forbidden). While these principles have been applied in varying degrees by historical Islamic economies, it is only in the late 20th century that a number of Islamic banks were formed to apply these principles to private or semi-private commercial institutions within the Muslim community.

# ? May 7, 2012 15:45

Strom Cuzewon: Jul 1, 2010

lorn Wayne posted:

I like how the Human Rights Act apparently only benefits terrorists and foreign criminals.

Isn't that sort of the point? It's like whining about the Geneva Convention only applying to political prisoners.

# ? May 7, 2012 15:51

KayTee: May 5, 2012; Whachoodoin?

Bryter posted:

It's just finance that follows Sharia law. Sharia is an expansive legal system, it's not the Islamic Ten Commandments it's sometimes portrayed as.

namesake posted:

It's a real thing and it's actually pretty cool.

Islam forbids the collection of interest on money (usury) as well as investment in non-halal industries so it developed its own system to allow money to be lend to people such as joint purchases by the bank and the 'borrower', bank accounts which don't pay interest, etc.

Of course it doesn't really exist any more and is not a threat to anything anyway.

Nine times out of ten, it's a bank account that does not offer an overdraft.

That's about it.

Most of the BFP's rage against "sharia bank accounts" comes from articles like this:

http://tinyurl.com/kvurqd - Daily Mail. It needs a warning.

Here's a breakdown.

quote:

An overdraft? That'll be �200 at Lloyds TSB (but only �15 if you're a Muslim)

Wow! Sounds like Lloyds TSB are offering brown people a better deal on their bank accounts! It's a two teir system! Muslims get preferential treatment everywhere!

quote:

Many Lloyds TSB customers are being hit with charges of up to �200 a month if they go into the red - while Muslims who use the bank are only being charged �15.

Affirms my assumption of the headline! What the gently caress is up with giving Muslims preferential treatment? They're barely 4% of the population!

quote:

The Islamic account was set up by the high street bank to attract Muslim customers by allowing them to keep faithful to their religion.

Sharia law does not permit the payment of interest so the 'typical' Islamic account at Lloyds TSB has been set up without an overdraft facility.

*Incoherent Daily Mail Foaming*

quote:

However, on some Islamic accounts such a payment is authorised and an 'unplanned overdraft fee' of �15 is then levied.

The bank says this is a management fee, not a payment of interest, so does not contradict Sharia law.

Meanwhile, customers with standard current accounts who go into the red by at least �100 without authorisation are hit with an 'unplanned overdraft fee' of �20 a day for a maximum of ten days. This could mean a customer has to pay �200 in one month.

So if I, Joe Taxpayer, exceed my overdraft - a sort of loan-buffer agreed with me and my bank - I get charged. But if a filthy MUSLIM goes over his bank account limit - which does not have an overdraft - His payment is... refused.. and he is charged.. �15.

Huh...

quote:

The Islamic account is available to all customers at Lloyds TSB. In theory, anyone who does not need a permanent overdraft facility could switch to this account to avoid being hit by interest charges for going into the red.

So you don't even need to be a Muslim in order to have one of these accounts.

In fact this looks suspiciously like a no-frills account that his been labeled "Sharia compliant" in order to appeal to Muslim customers and has no impact on people who have accounts with overdrafts who are warned that abuse of this optional facility comes with charges.

quote:

In the past few years, millions of customers at all the major high street banks have demanded the return of money which has been taken from their account in various forms of bank charges

Which has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with exploitation of regular people baffled by banker-speak.

quote:

A Lloyds TSB spokesman said: 'The Islamic current account is for customers who cannot receive credit or debit interest due to their religious beliefs.

'All of our Islamic accounts comply with Islamic law and are available to anyone regardless of background or faith.

Which kinda supports the assumption I made above. So Muslims are NOT getting preferential treatment, The Daily Mail is simply comparing to utterly different bank accounts and trying to kick up a fuss over Muslims.

Also I hate the mail for it's website programming that inserts a link to the article every time you copy/paste a quote from it. :/

...

This is what I mean about an Islamophobic media/culture fuelling the braindead racist minions of the EDL. Deliberately misinformative and diversive reporting.

KayTee fucked around with this message at 16:06 on May 7, 2012

# ? May 7, 2012 16:03

Starving Autist: Oct 20, 2007; by Ralp

Bryter posted:

It's just finance that follows Sharia law. Sharia is an expansive legal system, it's not the Islamic Ten Commandments it's sometimes portrayed as.

So why are they so opposed to this again? Is it just because anything seen as accommodating towards a foreign minority is inherently bad to them? Or are they seriously worried that this is the first step on the road to Islamofascism in Eurabia?

# ? May 7, 2012 16:05

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Crasscrab posted:

Islamic banking

So Islamic banking is applying the same taboos on usury that the Roman Catholic church once applied centuries ago until the reformation and people like Calvin suggested it wasn't totally against Christian morality to charge interest on money.

# ? May 7, 2012 16:15

duck monster: Dec 15, 2004

Bryter posted:

It's disingenuous, or profoundly ignorant, to suggest that a group representing the interests of the country shouldn't be afforded more rights than those groups who want to destroy it and all it stands for.

Shariah4UK might have the countries interests in mind, but I'm not sure people would see them as much more prefereable to the EDL which at least is honest about its "lets trash poo poo" agenda.

# ? May 7, 2012 16:26

Filboid Studge: Oct 1, 2010; And while they debated the matter among themselves, Conradin made himself another piece of toast.

Highspeeddub posted:

So Islamic banking is applying the same taboos on usury that the Roman Catholic church once applied centuries ago until the reformation and people like Calvin suggested it wasn't totally against Christian morality to charge interest on money.

Yup!

Not so long ago, the fash had their call-centre near where I live in Belfast. I might do a little poking and see if they're still around.

# ? May 7, 2012 16:27

duck monster: Dec 15, 2004

Bill O'Riley is GENIUS posted:

Sorry, ignorant American here, but what the heck is Sharia finance?! There are similarly racist fucks over here whining about Sharia law, but Sharia finance?! Are there certain kinds of Muslim bookkeeping that are destroying the good old British ways or something? It's hard to believe this isn't all a big joke.

Shariah finance is basically awesome finance. Shariah law forbids ursury, the charging of interest on loans, so basically the bank buys the house and over time you buy it off them bit by bit, and during that time you are a co-owner. The bank charges some fees here and there, to make its profits, but generally it works out cheaper as your not getting slaughtered by the whims of the market and interest rates.

# ? May 7, 2012 16:35

Torka: Jan 5, 2008

Crasscrab posted:

Islamic banking

A bunch of the financial techniques described in this article seem like rules-lawyering that violates the spirit of religious anti-usury laws if not the letter.

# ? May 7, 2012 16:39

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Torka posted:

A bunch of the financial techniques described in this article seem like rules-lawyering that violates the spirit of religious anti-usury laws if not the letter.

God apparently works in technicalities and you can loophole your way into Heaven.

# ? May 7, 2012 17:01

HighClassSwankyTime: Jan 16, 2004

Rent-A-Cop posted:

God apparently works in technicalities and you can loophole your way into Heaven.

It's not interest, it's a compounding service fee. Yeah right.

# ? May 7, 2012 17:05

lorn Wayne: Jan 7, 2006

Strom Cuzewon posted:

Isn't that sort of the point? It's like whining about the Geneva Convention only applying to political prisoners.

Sorry mate I don't understand. Are you saying the Human Rights Act only affects terrorists and foreign criminals? (not a snub question, i didn't understand your post).

# ? May 7, 2012 19:54

KayTee: May 5, 2012; Whachoodoin?

How about I tell you about the time that EDL Leader Tommy Robinson tried to evade the police by dressing up an an orthodox Jewish Rabbi?

This happened at their main event demo in the London borough of Tower Hamlets in 2011, but the buildup and the... "reasoning" for it began a few months earlier at their demo in Blackburn.

This happened at Blackburn:

The EDL - taking a break from protecting the UK from Muslamic Ray Guns, Halal KFC meals, burkas and optional, non-statutory Sharia courts - decided to base it's Blackburn demo almost entirely around "peacefully protesting" against "Unite Against Fascism" ( http://uaf.org.uk/ )a protest movement who routinely turn out to oppose EDL marches.

Well, the police were on to them and cornered the EDL in a car park.

Here is the EDL defending Britain.

As you can see, the crowd is perfectly prepared for a peaceful protest.

Well, robbed of the ability to fight the UAF. The EDL turned on each other.

Tommy called out several members as "grasses", "Nazis" and "Traitors" pointing them out in the middle of a baying Sniff & Stella fuelled crowd... You can imagine what happened. Here's his speech

Of course there are no real Nazis in the EDL. This fellow is just waving to a friend, or hailing - oops - I mean calling a taxi.

The banners depicting the 14 Words that can be seen briefly in the videos, are also not racist in any way.

Leaving the event also went peacefully

In the scuffle, Tommy headbutted someone. He was subsequently arrested, charged and found guilty of common assault.

He was given the ASBO (Anti-Social Behaviour Order - a sort of restraining order) conditions that he refrain from attending any further EDL demos.

Also: Local Newspaper coverage.

Tommy wasn't having that! He's got to go to his demos and tell all his followers again about how Muslims are refusing to integrate into society, being criminals and ignoring British law!

Enter: Roberta Moore.

quote:

�We are not anti-Muslim,� Moore emphasizes. �We are anti-Islam, as everyone should be. Islam is not a religion, but a cult. It has all the features of a cult, like the religions of Jim Jones and David Koresh. It�s exactly the same. But people don�t understand that.�

Roberta Moore is a supporter of Victor Vancier whom you might know as the leader of the Jewish Task Force. He was arrested and convicted for his role in a series of terrorist bombings.

This relationship alone has made her bit of a pariah in Jewish activist circles.

For an even more in-depth breakdown on Ms. Moore, please read this, it is rather enlightning not just on Moore�s views and politics, but also on the internal workings of the EDL.

Roberta, using her position as Admin of the EDL's Jewish Division Facebook page as inspiration, came up with this:

Superb.

This happened at the EDL's Tower Hamlets Demo.

Tower Hamlets is a predominately Muslim borough of London. The situation was deemed so volatile that home secretary Teresa May outright banned the march. The EDL, after wandering through Kings Cross, were eventually pinned in a car park at Aldgate.

There, Rabbi Benjamin Kiddimon gave a speech.

quote:

�EVERY SINGLE MUSLIM watching this on Youtube, on 7/7 you got away with killing and mainiming British citizens, you got away with it. You had better underestand that we have built a network from one end of this country to the other end, and we will not tolerate it, and the Islamic community will feel the full force of the English Defence League if we see any of our citizens killed, maimed or hurt on British soil ever again."

Yeah... Rabbi Benjamin Kiddimon, just blamed every single muslim in the UK for the horrific 7/7 attacks in London

Suprisingly enough, Rabbi Kiddimon was arrested by the cops shortly afterwards.

Following his arrest Tommy Robinson declared himself a political prisoner, and went on hunger strike as a protest against his unlawful incarceration.

I�ll repeat that.

Following his arrest Tommy Robinson declared himself a political prisoner, and went on hunger strike as a protest against his unlawful incarceration.

From Wikipedia:

quote:

a political prisoner is �someone who is in prison because they have opposed or criticized the government of their own country�.

For the record, Tommy Robinson was found guilty of common assault and was given an ASBO. He then broke the conditions of that ASBO while simultaneously giving what is defined under UK law as a �Hate Speech� � In contradiction of one of more of the Public Order At 1986, the Racial and Religous Hatred act 2006, the Criminal Justice and Immigration act 2008, and the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1996 .

Regardless, he began a hunger strike

He was released, once again, on police bail, four days later, amidst a wealth of EDL Facebook postings commending him on his hunger strike.

According to a source at the prison, however, Tommy�s strike lasted no longer than 24 hours and, when it was finally �broken� on his release, Tommy celebrated with a meal at Nandos... A famously Halal food outlet.

KayTee fucked around with this message at 09:45 on May 8, 2012

# ? May 8, 2012 09:40

StarkingBarfish: Jun 25, 2006; Novus Ordo Seclorum

KayTee posted:

Tommy celebrated with a meal at Nandos... A famously Halal food outlet.

I'm sure content-free posting is frowned upon, but if ever there was acceptable use of "lol", this right here would be it. That was an excellent post KayTee, but the last line really seals it.

# ? May 8, 2012 11:26

duck monster: Dec 15, 2004

Have a read of this

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...st-2334059.html

quote:

In his book he recalls "one man after the other laying into a small group of women, hitting them with chairs and hurling tables at them .... It was a bloody massacre.People were lying on the floor helpless, being stamped on, kicked and hit with objects picked off the walls and floor. A pregnant woman was locked in the toilet and the BNP were trying to kick their way in to get at her and her unborn baby."

Collins, a veteran of the far right at just 18, had taken part in violent attacks before, fighting men in pubs and on the football terraces. But the scene at Welling Library deeply challenged the nobility he associated with the far right's cause. "I couldn't see what freedom of speech and fighting for British democracy had to do with stamping on little old ladies' heads," he says. "It was real hatred. I began to see it was all about destroying people's lives. Violence was the only way they could affect change.

"I was standing in the library watching people getting their heads kicked in for attending a debate and discussion. I thought: I'm on the wrong side."

Its an account ffrom Matthew Collins, an old UK collegue of mine (I worked for its Australian sister organization FDB) about his life in the National Front, an ancestor organization of the EDL, in the 1980s, his transformation away from fascism, and Brevik.

Its the two extreme ways an EDL member can go. Either complete rejection of fascism, or taking it to its furthest extent where it becomes about destroying people en masse.

Theres a model of fascist groups developed by the FBI, the seven stage model. Largely the observations of groups like Searchlight, FDB, SPLC and so on have had, seem to confirm this model as somewhat accurate

quote:

Stage 1: The Haters Gather

Irrational haters seldom hate alone.10 They feel compelled, almost driven, to entreat others to hate asthey do. Peer validation bolsters a sense of self-worth and, at the same time, prevents introspection, which reveals personal insecurities.11 Further, individuals otherwise ineffective become empowered when they join groups, which also provide anonymity and diminished accountability.

Stage 2: The Hate Group Defines Itself

Hate groups form identities through symbols, rituals, and mythologies, which enhance the members' status and, at the same time, degrade the object of their hate. For example, skinhead groups may adopt the swastika, the iron cross, the Confederate flag, and other supremacist symbols. Group-specific symbols or clothing often differentiate hate groups. Group rituals, such as hand signals and secret greetings, further fortify members. Hate groups, especially skinhead groups, usually incorporate some form of self-sacrifice, which allows haters to willingly jeopardize their well-being for the greater good of the cause. Giving one's life to a cause provides the ultimate sense of value and worth to life.12 Skinheads often see themselves as soldiers in a race war.

Stage 3: The Hate Group Disparages the Target

Hate is the glue that binds haters to one another and to a common cause.13 By verbally debasing the object of their hate, haters enhance their self-image, as well as their group status. In skinhead groups, racist song lyrics and hate literature provide an environment wherein hate flourishes. In fact, researchers have found that the life span of aggressive impulses increases with ideation.14 In other words, the more often a person thinks about aggression, the greater the chance for aggressive behavior to occur. Thus, after constant verbal denigration, haters progress to the next more acrimonious stage.

Stage 4: The Hate Group Taunts the Target

Hate, by its nature, changes incrementally. Time cools the fire of hate, thus forcing the hater to look inward. To avoid introspection, haters use ever-increasing degrees of rhetoric and violence to maintain high levels of agitation. Taunts and offensive gestures serve this purpose. In this stage, skinheads typically shout racial slurs from moving cars or from afar. Nazi salutes and other hand signals often accompany racial epithets. Racist graffiti also begins to appear in areas where skinheads loiter. Most skinhead groups claim turf proximate to the neighborhoods in which they live. One study indicated that a majority of hate crimes occur when the hate target migrates through the hate group's turf.15

Stage 5: The Hate Group Attacks the Target Without Weapons

This stage is critical because it differentiates vocally abusive haters from physically abusive ones. In this stage, hate groups become more aggressive, prowling their turf seeking vulnerable targets. Violence coalesces hate groups and further isolates them from mainstream society. Skinheads, almost without exception, attack in groups and target single victims. Research has shown that bias crimes are twice as likely to cause injury and four times as likely to result in hospitalization as compared to nonbias crimes.16

In addition to physical violence, the element of thrill seeking is introduced in Stage 5. Two experts found that 60 percent of hate offenders were "thrill seekers."17 The adrenaline "high" intoxicates the attackers. The initial adrenaline surge lasts for several minutes; however, the effects of adrenaline keep the body in a state of heightened alert for up to several days.18 Each successive anger- provoking thought or action builds on residual adrenaline and triggers a more violent response than the one that originally initiated the sequence.19 Anger builds on anger. The adrenaline high combined with hate becomes a deadly combination. Hard-core skinheads keep themselves at a level where the slightest provocation triggers aggression.

Stage 6: The Hate Group Attacks the Target with Weapons

Several studies confirm that a large number of bias attacks involve weapons.20 Some attackers use firearms to commit hate crimes, but skinheads prefer weapons, such as broken bottles, baseball bats, blunt objects, screwdrivers, and belt buckles. These types of weapons require the attacker to be close to the victim, which further demonstrates the depth of personal anger. Attackers can discharge firearms at a distance, thus precluding personal contact. Close-in onslaughts require the assailants to see their victims eye-to-eye and to become bloodied during the assault. Hands- on violence allows skinheads to express their hate in a way a gun cannot. Personal contact empowers and fulfills a deep-seated need to have dominance over others.

Stage 7: The Hate Group Destroys the Target

The ultimate goal of haters is to destroy the object of their hate. Mastery over life and death imbues the hater with godlike power and omnipotence, which, in turn, facilitate further acts of violence. With this power comes a great sense of self-worth and value, the very qualities haters lack. However, in reality, hate physically and psychologically destroys both the hater and the hated.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/hate_groups/hategroups355.html

The EDL are largely at stage 4-5 of this ladder.

duck monster fucked around with this message at 12:02 on May 8, 2012

# ? May 8, 2012 11:55

Mr Cuddles: Jan 29, 2010; Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.

I am sure they would be much more popular as a movement if a single one of them was able to spell correctly, or write or say anything without coming across as incredibly ignorant, reactionary and hateful.

I've known real die hard racist old men who also hate the EDL.

# ? May 8, 2012 12:00

FIRE CURES BIGOTS: Aug 26, 2002; by Y Kant Ozma Post

KayTee posted:

This is their "20-point Plan" (Absolutely�not related to any form of bullet-point�program�used by other�regimes. Nosiree)

So basically they are the British version of Ron Paul supporters, but more obviously racist. I could agree with the free speech and smoking in bars part but the others sound like some US AM talk radio hate mongering.

# ? May 8, 2012 12:49

DrWrestling69: Feb 4, 2008; Tracyanne...

The EDL look pretty organised compered to the SDL. They had planned a march in Glasgow a couple of months ago and it got changed to a static protest because people were worried there would be trouble with counter protesters. What actually happened was about 50 people turned up and stood about for a bit while the counter protesters got moved somewhere else.

# ? May 8, 2012 14:06

thehustler: Apr 17, 2004; I am very curious about this little crescendo

I went to cover the EDL demo in Preston about a year ago, also the counter protest by United Against Fascism. Nearly got a smoke bomb in the head after one EDL guy took exception to me photographing him.

They are scary people. I was honestly quite worried about what may happen, even with the huge police presence. People like that are very strange in the head, I would love to see a bunch of studies done on people who harbour far-right views to find out what happened to them and how they reached that point.

Photos:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/elmarko/sets/72157625478197688/

# ? May 8, 2012 14:07

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# ? Apr 24, 2024 04:24

KELNOR THE OVERWASP: Jul 1, 2005; CULTURAL IMPERIALIST.
ask me about being white and privileged in china

Matthew Collins has a very good book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hate-Life-British-Far-Right/dp/1849541256/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336482665&sr=8-1

Another good book is No Retreat, a book about two trots going round bashing the fash: http://www.amazon.co.uk/No-Retreat-Dave-Hann/dp/1903854229/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336482744&sr=8-1

# ? May 8, 2012 14:13

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > English Defence League: the (white) pride of the UK

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