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Shrimp or Shrimps
Feb 14, 2012


I mean, if it's priced low enough, it's not an unattractive solution for consumers. If it's priced too close to the 1080, then the OC headroom of the 1080 really leaves it in the dust since I'm assuming AMD is following tradition and basically having this thing clocked to max levels out of the box with no headroom left. And that's before the power consumption / heat stuff that nerds like us care about.

At what price, if you were looking for a new card in the 1080 perf range, would this card be a compelling choice over the 1080. $350?

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1gnoirents
Jun 28, 2014


Yeah AMD has had no problem pricing things where they need to be to sell. However this all but guarantees a total dogshit cooler again

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

WolfDad is Best Dad.


Shrimp or Shrimps posted:

I mean, if it's priced low enough, it's not an unattractive solution for consumers. If it's priced too close to the 1080, then the OC headroom of the 1080 really leaves it in the dust since I'm assuming AMD is following tradition and basically having this thing clocked to max levels out of the box with no headroom left. And that's before the power consumption / heat stuff that nerds like us care about.

At what price, if you were looking for a new card in the 1080 perf range, would this card be a compelling choice over the 1080. $350?

TBH I don't think I would ever get one at any price, mostly because I don't want it pouring 300W+ of heat into my already hard to cool room.

For everyone else I expect it to be compelling at the $350-$400 mark.

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

If the custom cooler versions are priced near the 1080 then I'm sure people with FreeSync monitors will pick them up but I'm gonna sit this round out since I've gone 4-liter SFF.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


OhFunny posted:

Vega FE is going to be crushed in performance and price by the 1180 isn't it?

The real beauty of this card is that if it offers any kind of a market-relevant price it'll never see a motherboard that isn't inside a milk crate.

$400 for 1.5x a Fury at the same TDP? And more VRAM?

edit: cryptobutt thread says they're hashing the same as a 580 right now. However, that's obviously low so something may need to be tuned.

but yes, the 1170 will probably smoke this

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at Jun 29, 2017 around 03:17

1gnoirents
Jun 28, 2014


Zero VGS posted:

If the custom cooler versions are priced near the 1080 then I'm sure people with FreeSync monitors will pick them up but I'm gonna sit this round out since I've gone 4-liter SFF.

Nah just drill little eye holes in the side of your case and hang an AIO on it clearly !!

Palladium
May 8, 2012


1gnoirents posted:

Yeah AMD has had no problem pricing things where they need to be to sell. However this all but guarantees a total dogshit cooler again

600mm^2 die (IINW?) and HBM2 at $300-400. It's totally profitable

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

I'm the tortoise in the race, but I'm a joyful tortoise.


Does anyone know how the costs of HBM2 compare to GDDR5X? I'm curious as to what their margins would be like selling this at $400.

MaxxBot fucked around with this message at Jun 29, 2017 around 03:22

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

OhFunny posted:

Vega FE is going to be crushed in performance and price by the 1180 isn't it?

Considering nVidia has nine months to a year to crush however they like and even potentially refine their crushing technique, it's a pretty safe bet.

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.


The pascal refresh is going to be a tock cycle, gonna crush it imo

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post


MaxxBot posted:

Does anyone know how the costs of HBM2 compare to GDDR5X? I'm curious as to what their margins would be like selling this at $400.

HBM is way, way more expensive/GB than GDDR5X, especially when you count in the interposer and packaging. I've seen estimates as high as $50 a card. Thats why Micron developed GDDR5X in the first place, as they gambled that HBM wouldnt be cheap enough, fast enough for prime time.

You have to wonder if AMD wasn't well aware that Vega was a flop the moment the 1080 launched and gave its production an extreme backseat to the Ryzen, since they share a process (Samsung' 14nm licensed by Glofo) and manufacturing facilities. Might explain the delay. Also might explain Volta's slip, cause Nvidia is looking at another year of pure profit.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


MaxxBot posted:

Does anyone know how the costs of HBM2 compare to GDDR5X? I'm curious as to what their margins would be like selling this at $400.

They are putting the same memory (and interposer/chip assembly process) that NVIDIA puts on a $7,000 Tesla GP100 card on a 1080 with a 375W TDP. What do you think margins look like for them? Forget the flagship, most chips won't be perfect. What do the die harvests cost?

Even if NVIDIA totally has no uarch / power tricks up their sleeve (they do), even let's say they have to go to a 512-bit bus + GDDR5X on a super-sized GV102 to make a release in the next 6 months, NVIDIA is still going to be laughing all the way to the loving bank.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at Jun 29, 2017 around 03:53

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

~perfect~
battlebrother





would it have killed them to make a gddr5 version lmao

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Because RTG isn't in the GPU business, they are in the VRAM early adopter business.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post


Anime Schoolgirl posted:

would it have killed them to make a gddr5 version lmao

i think Micron/Nvidia have an exclusive deal on GDDR5X. you can probably get GDDR5 up to like 300GB/s in bandwidth, but probably couldn't get near the 1080 Ti's 484GB/s without HBM.

but there is also the possibility that without HBM2, this thing is even more of a dog. considering its got a ~475mm die size, which makes its nearly the same size as a GP102 (titan x/xp, 1080ti) and 44% BIGGER than GP104 (1080/1070), they likely REALLY want to be able to charge a lot for it. its gotta be expensive, which means they gotta sink the cost and go HBM2 to get the bandwidth to perform.

the thing is nearly the size of 2.5 Ryzen dies, each. and they will have to sell it for less than the cost of a 1080 with HBM2 to move any. lordy.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


To be very honest I don't see how this chip can enter volume production in the state it's in. They can make money on them as FE cards but even if they're sole-sourcing them 3DFX style (that's right I'm going there) there's not going to be a lot of room for profit at $400 for the perfect chips let alone $250 for die harvest. Also, how do AIB partners feel about their whole margin in this?

Unless there's some secret VEGA MODE ACTIVATE thing that hasn't been turned on I just don't see how this is a saleable product at those margins right now let alone going against Volta. Is this thing going to compete well against the 1160?

I guess miners will buy whatever but if this bubble pops it's all over for AMD as they try to move industrial-scale quantities of lovely superhot cards on the consumer market, against a massive supply of used cards

Probably why there's been zero fanfare and literally only one rando with a card in hand.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at Jun 29, 2017 around 04:10

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

I'm the tortoise in the race, but I'm a joyful tortoise.


I thought my 1080 Ti STRIX was comically large, can't wait to see the cooling solutions they come up with for this.

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.


If the vega numbers are to be believed, it's only hashing about 40 for 300+W. You can get mid 30s with Hawaii by comparison.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

I'm the tortoise in the race, but I'm a joyful tortoise.


Yeah Vega definitely sucks for Etherium but I'd like to see some other crypto benches, dumb miners will probably buy it either way ofc.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


MaxxBot posted:

Yeah Vega definitely sucks

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Measly Twerp
Nov 5, 2009



None of this makes any sense:

- 14nm process advantage
- Clock speed advantage
- Architecture advantage
- 1070-1080 level performance

Conspiracy theory level bullshit:

At some point late last year RTG realised that they had a serious issue with their silicon when gaming that meant they were not going to be able to meet their deadline without a fixed stepping. To avoid this they chose to release a 'prosumer' card with the bad silicon that nobody would actually want, and then hope that they'd have fixed silicon in some reasonable time later in the year.

This would explain the inexplicable delay for RX Vega, at least if you dismiss that HBM2 supply is the probable cause, and why the Vega FE is simply unremarkable in every aspect considering that it is beaten in gaming and professional work by much older hardware.

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