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K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot

No, the 16xx parts are Turing based. They don't have RT or Tensor and IIRC the 1650 has the old NVENC unit, but it's still fundamentally a 12nm Turing part.

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Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Maxwell Adams posted:

Didn't nVidia have a stockpile of old stuff this time around, so they stuck on a newer memory interface, and that's how we got the 1660 line?

no, turing minor is architecturally distinct from pascal, and you can't just "stick on a newer memory interface" without doing tapeout all over again, unless it's specifically designed in from the beginning

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN


I don't feel confident in trying to predict what is going to happen with Nvidia GPUs because the market has been weird for a while. Nvidia has been dominant for the last several years, AMD keeps stepping on their own dick when it comes to GPUs even as their CPUs have gotten good, and the artificial market for bitcoin mining seems to be a thing of the past.

ElBrak
Aug 24, 2004

"Muerte, buen compinche. Muerte."

Ya, I don't think you can mine a bitcoin even with a building full of GPUs there days. The purpose-built stuff is just so better at crunching the magic numbers.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

ElBrak posted:

Ya, I don't think you can mine a bitcoin even with a building full of GPUs there days. The purpose-built stuff is just so better at crunching the magic numbers.

The GPU shortage wasn't caused by people mining BTC directly though, because you're right that the days of GPU mining BTC has long since past. But there are plenty of other coins that are still mineable by GPUs (some of them are intentionally designed to frustrate ASICs). If the price of BTC spikes up again, expect to see those other coins also rise in value and then we're potentially back in the same situation all over again.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


DrDork posted:

The GPU shortage wasn't caused by people mining BTC directly though, because you're right that the days of GPU mining BTC has long since past. But there are plenty of other coins that are still mineable by GPUs (some of them are intentionally designed to frustrate ASICs). If the price of BTC spikes up again, expect to see those other coins also rise in value and then we're potentially back in the same situation all over again.

Thing is, it turns out that the people designing ASICS are better at their jobs than the people designing algorithms that are impossible to mine on ASICS, particularly since the former have (in some cases) billions of dollars of incentive to make it work. Basically all of the “ASIC-resistant” coins now have ASICS.

It is sort of Schneier's Law in action, “anyone can design a cryptosystem that they themselves cannot break”. Or in this case, anyone can design an algorithm that they themselves cannot build an ASIC for.

There is a new new generation of ASIC-resistant algorithms like RandomX that (instead of relying on memory bandwidth to bottleneck parallelization) have resorted to building an arbitrary program out of instructions so that it resembles a general purpose processor even more closely, but the thing is that's still fairly trivial to parallelize, and such programs still have much shorter programs with a much more limited instruction set than a “real” processor so IMO it should still be possible to construct a smaller, more efficient asic to accelerate this small subset of the continuum of Turing-computable programs, without having to construct a fully general processor that's fast at arbitrary tasks. When you throw billions of dollars of incentive, someone is going to do it.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 15:53 on May 26, 2020

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Paul MaudDib posted:

Thing is, it turns out that people are better at designing ASICS than people are at designing algorithms that are impossible to mine on ASICS, particularly since the former have (in some cases) billions of dollars of incentive to make it work. Basically all of the “ASIC-resistant” coins now have ASICS.

Yeah, "resistant" just means it takes longer for ASICs to show up, not that they won't show up. Though considering how in the toilet a lot of the values are, it wouldn't surprise me if it made them unattractive for new ASIC development. Of course those coins are basically unattractive for mining in general, so who cares?

In the end the point is that it doesn't matter that BTC or any other given coin isn't efficient to mine on GPUs: if BTC's price spikes up again, someone will set up a new GPU-efficient (at least for a while) coin that people will start dog piling in to for the 6-12 months it takes for ASICs to drive everyone else out.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN


Update on my 2070 Super saga: The preauthorization for Best Buy has disappeared from bank account, but the order still shows as "delayed" on their website and the options to change or cancel are still grayed and inoperable. The card shows out of stock, so is clearly backordered, which Best Buy's terms of service indicates means I should be able to cancel it at any time. I REALLY don't want that charge to show up again just because they can't make their ordering system work right. I've posted on their customer service forums the last couple days in hopes of getting a response, but so far have heard nothing.

The card I ordered from NewEgg is showing it is waiting to be picked up by the shipper, and that it should arrive tomorrow.

Comfy Fleece Sweater
Apr 2, 2013


Paul MaudDib posted:

Thing is, it turns out that the people designing ASICS are better at their jobs than the people designing algorithms that are impossible to mine on ASICS, particularly since the former have (in some cases) billions of dollars of incentive to make it work. Basically all of the “ASIC-resistant” coins now have ASICS.

It is sort of Schneier's Law in action, “anyone can design a cryptosystem that they themselves cannot break”. Or in this case, anyone can design an algorithm that they themselves cannot build an ASIC for.

There is a new new generation of ASIC-resistant algorithms like RandomX that (instead of relying on memory bandwidth to bottleneck parallelization) have resorted to building an arbitrary program out of instructions so that it resembles a general purpose processor even more closely, but the thing is that's still fairly trivial to parallelize, and such programs still have much shorter programs with a much more limited instruction set than a “real” processor so IMO it should still be possible to construct a smaller, more efficient asic to accelerate this small subset of the continuum of Turing-computable programs, without having to construct a fully general processor that's fast at arbitrary tasks. When you throw billions of dollars of incentive, someone is going to do it.

There's a bunch of coins that released their own ASICs, because "well people are going to do it, so it might as well be us, it makes it official" lol

SiaCoin for sure did it, and a few others whose names have been forgotten to the sands of time

I was actually mining Siacoins for a bit, and it seemed useful thing for extra storage, but decided to quit after they pulled that ASIC move.

Oh and the fact that their app lost all the data I was testing for backups. Oh and it charged me like 100 dollars worth of "siacoins" that I'd mined, for no reason. Oh and also when they posted on their FAQ "Is it possible that there could be illegal content hosted on Siacoin drives? Well yes, but you know, it's encrypted, and we totally don't agree with that, it's uncool, so don't. We don't really have any protection, you might be hosting nuclear bomb plans for all we know"

Crypto is such a scam

Comfy Fleece Sweater fucked around with this message at 18:52 on May 26, 2020

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


CaptainSarcastic posted:

I've posted on their customer service forums the last couple days in hopes of getting a response, but so far have heard nothing.

If there's one near you, you could get their customer service reps/store manager to fix this I suspect. Tough to ignore you when you're physically there, if that's an option.

buglord
Jul 31, 2010



Buglord

CaptainSarcastic posted:

I've posted on their customer service forums the last couple days in hopes of getting a response, but so far have heard nothing.

Usually going on a company twitter or Facebook page does wonders with getting stuff done. It seems like companies only really respond to public pressure and social media accounts do that wonderfully

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN


buglord posted:

Usually going on a company twitter or Facebook page does wonders with getting stuff done. It seems like companies only really respond to public pressure and social media accounts do that wonderfully

I've already given that a shot, but their Facebook page section for questions and comments is some half-assed app that is just an interface to their customer service forums. One cool thing about this app is that it requires a login and then pops up a captcha which extends out of the Facebook frame and is impossible to complete. I ended up just going directly to the forum after that.

I'd really rather not create a Twitter account just to drag Best Buy but I'll consider it.

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010


that minecraft arpg was the first game to hardcrash my gpu into a reboot lol

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011



Cao Ni Ma posted:

that minecraft arpg was the first game to hardcrash my gpu into a reboot lol

They took some cues from on how to make a launcher for it, too. https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MCL-14107

NeuralSpark
Apr 16, 2004



Kazinsal posted:

They took some cues from on how to make a launcher for it, too. https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MCL-14107

21 years after Myth II. What’s old is new again.

Ihmemies
Oct 6, 2012



Half-Life did that too. I actually knew about it, but I thought/assumed it was fixed in later patches and my game had the newest patch.

Welp,

iv46vi
Apr 2, 2010


Somehow EVGA has a whole bunch of 1080 Ti cards on their Wednesday Madness sale. Somebody must have tripped over a box in their basement marked "Rainy Day". They are asking $500-600 range and that tells you what the market is right now.

Seamonster
Apr 30, 2007

IMMER SIEGREICH


Tempted, but still not going to budge from my $400, 30 month old 1080.

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017



iv46vi posted:

Somehow EVGA has a whole bunch of 1080 Ti cards on their Wednesday Madness sale. Somebody must have tripped over a box in their basement marked "Rainy Day". They are asking $500-600 range and that tells you what the market is right now.

lol man. that is absolutely bonkers to me

thats about to be 2 generations removed and there still isnt a product that can compete with it from AMD

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.


Statutory Ape posted:

lol man. that is absolutely bonkers to me

thats about to be 2 generations removed and there still isnt a product that can compete with it from AMD

In fairness the super line isn't a real generation, so more like 1.5 generations removed.

It is an old card though.

redreader
Nov 2, 2009

I am the coolest person ever with my pirate chalice. Seriously.



Dinosaur Gum

When's the next news dump? Is there another Nvidia or ATI conference coming up, or will it probably be the ps5 announcement in early June as people speculate? I'm interested in any of the gaming related graphics news, as I have a pc and plan on getting a ps5 probably.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

Well, there's rumors of desktop RX 5300, in case you really want to experience grappling with AMD drivers on the cheap

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014



College Slice

Hasn't that existed for months as oem-only card for the likes of Dell and HP? I guess if they're going to start selling retail cards it's news.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN


iv46vi posted:

Somehow EVGA has a whole bunch of 1080 Ti cards on their Wednesday Madness sale. Somebody must have tripped over a box in their basement marked "Rainy Day". They are asking $500-600 range and that tells you what the market is right now.

That's the price range for a 2070 Super, which appears to bench about the same but also has raytracing. From a quick look there are a few things the 1080 ti still does slightly better at, and it's got more RAM, but it's still hard for me to see that as a good value proposition.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



I’m not sure if any 5300s actually shipped. There were some low key product announcements from HP for office towers but I don’t see any evidence of one in the wild. All the product pages now list the 5500 instead, and they scuttled the AIB launch completely last year. 5300s do exist in the mobile world, with the MacBook Pro prolly the biggest user.

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Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


iv46vi posted:

Somehow EVGA has a whole bunch of 1080 Ti cards on their Wednesday Madness sale. Somebody must have tripped over a box in their basement marked "Rainy Day". They are asking $500-600 range and that tells you what the market is right now.

Eugh, aren't the squirrel cages on those Founders Edition cards louder, too?

Also lol it's B-stock so you're only getting a one year warranty on it too


gently caress video cards

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