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Truga
May 4, 2014




Lipstick Apathy

i have a corsair 900d with 2 480mm rads in it and a total of 12 noctua fans that spin at 400-500rpm when under max load. it's a completely overkill setup, but it's also practically impossible to hear even at max load, which is probably something like 600W. i probably wouldn't do it again because my pc isn't in my bedroom any more and like i said earlier the overclocking potential just isn't there any more for me due to various factors. but now that it's built, i can easily just swap out components so i keep it running.

VelociBacon posted:

I had a 980ti hybrid and now have a hybrid kit on my 2080ti xc ultra, both EVGA cards, and unless my memory is wrong, the 980ti temps were slow to rise. The 2080ti temps shoot up immediately like a CPU does (they're less than on air and they drop immediately when load ends) and I dunno why this could be.

different temp reading locations.

newer sensors are usually a part of a core, which gives instant temp reading as load increases, whereas classic sensors were kind of a "package temp" deal, and it took a moment for temperature to spread over to the sensor. as frequency boosting got more sophisticated, having instant temp reading got more valuable i guess.

you used to be able to still find a package temp readout with third party tools until relatively recently, but i haven't checked if it's still there on latest cpus/gpus. for fan curve usage and poo poo package temp is better tbh, since you're cooling the package/heatspreader anyway not the circuitry inside the chip directly.

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th3t00t
Aug 14, 2007
my quarterback hates completions

Cactus posted:

My 970 ran real hot playing Grounded the other night, to the point my room heated up to an uncomfortable degree even though I had all windows open. I'm assuming it's because that is a really old card and modern games even on default modest settings are now pushing it to its limit. 3080 cant come out soon enough.
Same. Even if it's cool outside I need to turn the AC on in my computer room while gaming because my 970 is a space heater at this point.

It's fully overclocked and it can still run WOW at 1440p on a mix of ultra with some performance killers disabled settings at 150+fps in lightly populated areas like out in the world questing. Still manages 60+fps even in cities. But it runs at a consistent 80 degrees C

Can't really run COD:MW without turning settings wayyyy down.

edit: Fans curve at 80-100% while gaming

VorpalFish
Mar 22, 2007
reasonably awesometm

You might benefit from repasting if you haven't recently. Stuff doesn't last forever.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on




Pillbug

VorpalFish posted:

You might benefit from repasting if you haven't recently. Stuff doesn't last forever.

I was going to suggest that too, as well as checking the thermal pads to make sure none have broken or warped. I know some 2080ti cards had issues with those from the manufacturer.

Space Gopher
Jul 31, 2006
BLITHERING IDIOT

Cactus posted:

My 970 ran real hot playing Grounded the other night, to the point my room heated up to an uncomfortable degree even though I had all windows open. I'm assuming it's because that is a really old card and modern games even on default modest settings are now pushing it to its limit. 3080 cant come out soon enough.

GPUs typically put out close-to-full heat in games and 3D applications even at low settings, because when each frame is easier to make, they will make more frames (and give you a higher framerate) rather than drop their power consumption. They're also typically not as good as CPUs at quick power state transitions, low idle consumption, and race-to-sleep - that's why laptops usually run switchable graphics.

There's some variance in power consumption based on exactly what the GPU is doing, but you can expect pretty high power consumption from a high-end desktop GPU in any 3D application, whether you're getting a zillion FPS in Quake 3 or struggling to run Control maxed out.

Based on past trends, the 3080 will probably be worse as a room heater than your 970 even if it's got a great cooler and the GPU runs at a lower die temperature. GPUs do zero work and follow the laws of thermodynamics; every picowatt that comes in as electricity has to leave as heat.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

Space Gopher posted:

GPUs typically put out close-to-full heat in games and 3D applications even at low settings, because when each frame is easier to make, they will make more frames (and give you a higher framerate) rather than drop their power consumption.

isn't this why it might be useful to put in an FPS limit/lock, assuming you're comfortable at stopping at something like 60 FPS or something?

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

A Very Useful Person



Fun Shoe

VorpalFish posted:

You might benefit from repasting if you haven't recently. Stuff doesn't last forever.

He's telling a story about the room getting hot. That means that the cooler is transferring heat into the room successfully.

Wrar
Sep 9, 2002



Soiled Meat

Heat output in electronics is a byproduct of power consumption. If you choose parts that are more power efficient you'll put out less heat.

Deuce
Jun 18, 2004
Mile High Club

LRADIKAL posted:

He's telling a story about the room getting hot. That means that the cooler is transferring heat into the room successfully.

The heat will always transfer to the room successfully. Every watt in will come out.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on




Pillbug

LRADIKAL posted:

He's telling a story about the room getting hot. That means that the cooler is transferring heat into the room successfully.

When the circuit gets hotter resistance goes up, which makes the circuit hotter. Iím not sure if a GPU gets hot enough to make that a giant deal but if you can head off the feedback loop some it should help with head overall.

Zedsdeadbaby
Jun 14, 2008

You have been called out, in the ways of old.


gradenko_2000 posted:

isn't this why it might be useful to put in an FPS limit/lock, assuming you're comfortable at stopping at something like 60 FPS or something?

Yeah it is for that exact reason I use vsync or a framerate limiter. There's no point rendering beyond the display's maximum refresh except for lower input latency on competitive games.
If I turn off vsync or the framerate limit, my 1080ti starts hitting 99-100% usage and cooks itself to 90 degrees before throttling itself per the power limit. It's not healthy behaviour.

Cactus
Jun 24, 2006



I tend to have the side panel of my case off and pushed to one side and the front panel propped open all the time for increased airflow so I dont think there's any danger of the inside components getting dangerously hot to the point they'll cook unless my entire room does, by which time I'm dead of heatstroke so who cares.

VelociBacon
Dec 8, 2009



Truga posted:

different temp reading locations.

newer sensors are usually a part of a core, which gives instant temp reading as load increases, whereas classic sensors were kind of a "package temp" deal, and it took a moment for temperature to spread over to the sensor. as frequency boosting got more sophisticated, having instant temp reading got more valuable i guess.

you used to be able to still find a package temp readout with third party tools until relatively recently, but i haven't checked if it's still there on latest cpus/gpus. for fan curve usage and poo poo package temp is better tbh, since you're cooling the package/heatspreader anyway not the circuitry inside the chip directly.

Oh dang I would never have thought this was the explanation. Thank you!

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

A Very Useful Person



Fun Shoe

Ugly In The Morning posted:

When the circuit gets hotter resistance goes up, which makes the circuit hotter. Iím not sure if a GPU gets hot enough to make that a giant deal but if you can head off the feedback loop some it should help with head overall.

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewd...p=rep1&type=pdf

It's pretty complicated to work out your optimal temperature for a CPU, there is some power savings in keeping the temperature down. Of course fast spinning fans also use energy (heat) as do air conditioning units. Keeping your processor nicely pasted is always pretty good, but I doubt it has a big effect on an overall room temperature, just like having a more efficient GPU isn't going to make a huge difference doing the same type of tasks.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1404.3381.pdf
This study has some graphs with the relationship.

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...-2600k.2200205/
This is the least scientific thing I found, but easiest for the layman to read. It's not a huge difference.

Frame rate limiters are a big difference! If it's too hot, run games at lower settings with limited framerates!

Le Saboteur
Dec 5, 2007

pink wasn't even a thing why is t#RXT REVOLUTION~!
and i'm so fucking excited for #SCOOPS#SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS

he knows..


So it seems I started building a new PC at a weird time as Nvidia is close to launching their next RTX. I'm basically at the point where all I have left to buy is the GPU, was going to get a 2070 Super but should I just wait until they announce the 3070? Is the general thought that it will be available for purchase by mid September or so?

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on




Pillbug

Le Saboteur posted:

So it seems I started building a new PC at a weird time as Nvidia is close to launching their next RTX. I'm basically at the point where all I have left to buy is the GPU, was going to get a 2070 Super but should I just wait until they announce the 3070? Is the general thought that it will be available for purchase by mid September or so?

Someone posted the information about the EVGA step-up program and if you can get an EVGA 2070S it sounds like thatís perfect for you.

ufarn
May 30, 2009


Le Saboteur posted:

So it seems I started building a new PC at a weird time as Nvidia is close to launching their next RTX. I'm basically at the point where all I have left to buy is the GPU, was going to get a 2070 Super but should I just wait until they announce the 3070? Is the general thought that it will be available for purchase by mid September or so?
Used to be the announcement was going to happen in August. Launch date is even more unclear. At least they won't have to worry about having a big event to present at, since everyone's working from home in the US anyway.

Release date might not matter much if there's not enough supply to meet the demand, although you'll get a chance to see benchmarks I guess.

Le Saboteur
Dec 5, 2007

pink wasn't even a thing why is t#RXT REVOLUTION~!
and i'm so fucking excited for #SCOOPS#SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS

he knows..


Ugly In The Morning posted:

Someone posted the information about the EVGA step-up program and if you can get an EVGA 2070S it sounds like that’s perfect for you.

Oh awesome, that's super helpful!

K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot

You're really looking at two less than great options. Either you wait for a new GPU, or you buy a 2070S and wait for step-up, which can be quite slow.

Cactus
Jun 24, 2006



I'm going to do my best to plonk an order down for one as soon as they're available but assuming I don't click the button on time and they're out of stock, historically have purchases like these been cheaper on black friday or cyber monday?

With the price these things are likely to be even a few % difference is going to be a chunk of change. And I'm pretty sure these companies realise how foolish it would be of them to not have their stock problems sorted out in time for those sales.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Le Saboteur posted:

Oh awesome, that's super helpful!

Again - just make sure you read the instruction page for the program to the letter. You've got a fourteen day window to register the card upon receipt, and you're also completely beholden to whatever SKUs they *decide* to make available for the program. Since we still don't know a definitive product range, that's a gamble. There's a chance there might be a 3070, 3080, 3080Ti, and 3090/Titan. EVGA might decide to skip offering the Ti in the program (not saying they WILL, just that it's their rules and ~you never know~). You also have to be very sure that 1) you keep a copy of your original sales invoice handy (even if you submitted it with your registration), and 2) you'll have the money in 3-6 months' time when your window opens. They give you seven days to pay the difference, then two weeks to send them back your old card. So...have a backup prepared.

I think the last time around, people were waiting until December to February to get their Step-Ups to 2080Tis.

Cactus
Jun 24, 2006



Also if you're in the US isn't the post office getting hosed with by the trump administration, possibly resulting in longer delivery times? Might be something to take into account, I dunno.

Le Saboteur
Dec 5, 2007

pink wasn't even a thing why is t#RXT REVOLUTION~!
and i'm so fucking excited for #SCOOPS#SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS

he knows..


Hell, I might just buy the 2070S and wait a couple years until the 40xx gen is out. I imagine it will hold up for 1080p gaming for quite sometime.

Le Saboteur fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Aug 1, 2020

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on




Pillbug

Le Saboteur posted:

Hell, I might just buy the 2070S and a couple years until the 40xx gen is out. I imagine it will hold up for 1080p gaming for quite sometime.

For 1080p, absolutely. Especially with DLSS2.0, though I wonder if itíll see less benefit from that since native resolution is lower already.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Le Saboteur posted:

Hell, I might just buy the 2070S and wait a couple years until the 40xx gen is out. I imagine it will hold up for 1080p gaming for quite sometime.

I still think the sweet spot is the 2060S, which is functionally a 2070. The 2070S is ~10% faster than the 2060S. I haven't looked at the pricing lately, but weigh if that mild speed boost is worth it.

Le Saboteur
Dec 5, 2007

pink wasn't even a thing why is t#RXT REVOLUTION~!
and i'm so fucking excited for #SCOOPS#SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS

he knows..


BIG HEADLINE posted:

I still think the sweet spot is the 2060S, which is functionally a 2070. The 2070S is ~10% faster than the 2060S. I haven't looked at the pricing lately, but weigh if that mild speed boost is worth it.

Looks like a $150 difference at retail between the two in Canada so its definitely worth consideration.

Encrypted
Feb 25, 2016



Thereís no reason NOT to limit your fps to the highest refresh on your system unless you are benchmarking or something. Especially now nvidia has a simple slider you can set it with in their control panel.

Besides cutting down on heat output. It was also the old school way of getting buttery smooth gameplay in any games way before vsync, gsync or vrr. It worked really well in cs 1.6 with 85/100 fps at 85/100 hz or 125fps at 120hz in q3.

So limit your fps to save the planet and enjoy all the game quality benefits!

K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot

You capped your FPS at specific points in Q3 for physics benefits. The highest factor of 1000 you could maintain would let you jump higher/further. In general, with vsync off you just wanna let things run wild. You capped your FPS in CS because you had to, the game engine didn't support more than 100 FPS (or 99 or 101, can't remember exactly what). With VRR and vsync on you want to cap so that your frames come slowly enough that VRR stays enabled.

VorpalFish
Mar 22, 2007
reasonably awesometm

LRADIKAL posted:

He's telling a story about the room getting hot. That means that the cooler is transferring heat into the room successfully.

He specifically mentioned gpu temps in the 80s in cool ambient temperatures/AC at 80-100% fanspeed, with the implication that thermal performance was better earlier in the card's lifespan. That's what I was suggesting a repaste might help.

VorpalFish fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Aug 2, 2020

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Wrar posted:

If you choose parts that are more power efficient you'll put out less heat.

Efficiency and power consumption are two related but distinct ideas. A 1080 Ti is more efficient than a 970 and yet will put out more heat.

Similarly power consumption and temp are related but not quite directly. A card can pull a lot of power but run at a low temperature, and a card can put out very little heat but run at a high temperature. Temperature is affected by cooler, die area, etc.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


movax posted:

Am I going crazy or did I remember NVIDIA's Falcon being based on RISC-V as their new mini processor they are sprinkling on all their hardware (inside all of their ASICs)? Not that they were doing it to try and completely side-step / avoid ARM, but not having to pay a license fee on every GPU they sell + getting your feet wet with a different ISA is always a good thing. I'm not intimately familiar with Mellanox's offerings under the hood, but since they now got that business too, I wonder if there is some consolidation of processors to be had.

The crazy thing to me was diving into the Jetson (IIRC) block diagram and realizing how hog-wild they went with sprinkling SIP blocks around ó IIRC the audio subsystem has a full Cortex-A9 hanging out in there because I'm sure someone there was like "Well I not only have the RTL but also a layout for this block, so glue it to your AXI bus and hey, free audio "DSP"!".

Both nvidia and arm have softbank as an investor so this oddball matchup -- arm is not worth 32 billion -- is to make Son not look too stupid

Saukkis
May 16, 2003

Unless I'm on the inside curve pointing straight at oncoming traffic the high beams stay on and I laugh at your puny protest flashes.
I am Most Important Man. Most Important Man in the World.

Of course the correct solution is to remove the thermal paste. This will make the GPU to overheat, causing it to thermal throttle and produce less heat as a consequense.

tehinternet
Feb 14, 2005



Saukkis posted:

Of course the correct solution is to remove the thermal paste. This will make the GPU to overheat, causing it to thermal throttle and produce less heat as a consequense.

I support this 2000IQ solution but the only way to truly win is not to play

th3t00t
Aug 14, 2007
my quarterback hates completions

VorpalFish posted:

He specifically mentioned gpu temps in the 80s in cool ambient temperatures/AC at 80-100% fanspeed, with the implication that thermal performance was better earlier in the card's lifespan. That's what I was suggesting a repaste might help.
Guy with the space heater 80c 970 here. Thats while the card is under load while gaming. It's sitting at 37c right now under a light load with a bunch of chrome tabs that have been open since yesterday, discord, twitch, utorrent, and some game launchers open.

Temperature in this room is about 24c, I left the AC off all night and morning.

DOOMocrat
Oct 2, 2003



Factory overclocked cards of the GTX era normally set the upper temp threshold around 85c and boost boost boost until they get there, don't they?

VorpalFish
Mar 22, 2007
reasonably awesometm

Sort of. Temperature is a constraint but not the only constraint. With good cooling (or okay cooling if you're willing to run very high fan speeds) you can hit power limits before you hit 80c.

Saukkis
May 16, 2003

Unless I'm on the inside curve pointing straight at oncoming traffic the high beams stay on and I laugh at your puny protest flashes.
I am Most Important Man. Most Important Man in the World.

th3t00t posted:

Guy with the space heater 80c 970 here. Thats while the card is under load while gaming. It's sitting at 37c right now under a light load with a bunch of chrome tabs that have been open since yesterday, discord, twitch, utorrent, and some game launchers open.

Temperature in this room is about 24c, I left the AC off all night and morning.

The temperature of the GPU doesn't really tell how much heat it's producing, it may just have poor cooling. Connect your computer to a Kill-a-watt and it will tell how many watts of heat it's producing.

tehinternet
Feb 14, 2005



You could always switch to a card that draws less power like a 1070? I think they topped out at 125W which you could underclock down to 100-110W depending on the game.

Le Saboteur
Dec 5, 2007

pink wasn't even a thing why is t#RXT REVOLUTION~!
and i'm so fucking excited for #SCOOPS#SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS

he knows..


BIG HEADLINE posted:

I still think the sweet spot is the 2060S, which is functionally a 2070. The 2070S is ~10% faster than the 2060S. I haven't looked at the pricing lately, but weigh if that mild speed boost is worth it.

Wanted to come back around on this, seems like the lowest I can get a 2060 S right now is around $550 in Canada. But if I can get an RTX 2070 for $530 thats probably the better value purchase yeah?

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funkymonks
Aug 31, 2004



Pillbug

I have a full loop in a monstrous case labs case. I am going to see how an air cooled 3080 performs, noise wise, and Iíll probably tear out the whole loop if itís fine.

Water cooling has been very good for my 980ti but kind of a waste for my cpu. Especially since I have a horizontal motherboard and can strap any manner of giant air coolers to it without worrying about cantilevered weight.

Iíd like to be able to swap out components more easily. Itís such a pain in the rear end with a hardpiped water system.

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