Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Hemish
Jan 24, 2005



Fair Hallion posted:

Fair enough. I think a new PSU is the route we'll have to take. Thanks for the help!

If an upgrade is planned soonish for the rest of the computer, it's not a waste to get a decent PSU. I agree with the other guy that your current PSU looks well below what I would consider entry level. It's been so long since I've seen such a cheap PSU... it's bringing me back to the days in early 2000 when I was working in a computer shop with those 500w 50$Cnd PSU that weighted less than a single HDD.

I'm also concerned about your HDD not having a power SATA connector? I can't remember the last time I've seen one of those in the wild. Is your computer old (like around 2011 since it seems to be the age of the CPU) or did you did you get built for cheap?

If your budget allows it, get a SSD for Windows + some games. Again, the SSD can be used for something else if you end up trashing the computer at some point.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

AirRaid
Dec 21, 2004

Nose Manual + Super Sonic Spin Attack

Subjunctive posted:

Whoever told you this is not your friend.

It was no-one in particular, just a product of incredibly lazy/fast reading to confirm a half-baked thing I thought I knew before I posted.

Fair Hallion
Jul 25, 2007



Hemish posted:


I'm also concerned about your HDD not having a power SATA connector? I can't remember the last time I've seen one of those in the wild. Is your computer old (like around 2011 since it seems to be the age of the CPU) or did you did you get built for cheap?

If your budget allows it, get a SSD for Windows + some games. Again, the SSD can be used for something else if you end up trashing the computer at some point.

I'm absolutely going to need to open the case again to recheck as I'm now doubting myself, but when I looked (without unseating the drive or anything) I could only see the molex input with the power going into that.
The PC was a build from new (but on a budget) parts from about 18 months ago. He was only playing basic stuff like Minecraft and Roblox at the time but now he's onto more graphically demanding games like BeamNG Drive.
The SSD sounds like a good idea but if moving the OS to it sounds tricky (I've heard of cloning tools but can they be used to take just the OS over to the SSD, leaving the games etc on the HDD?) sorry I realise that's not a gpu question, wrong thread maybe

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

Get the fuck in your cage and shut the fuck up, you stupid fucking Mexicans. Your voice doesn't fucking matter unless you support OUR rapist.

OBAMA DID NOTHING WRONG


Itís not even clear if Nvidia needs to use the tensor cores to have a viable DLSS solution - again, how they market it is separate from the actual hardware prereqs. And Nvidiaís been throwing the kitchen sink at justifying the cores for non-compute users e.g, RTX voice.

Pivo
Aug 20, 2004




I think there is a lot to explore in terms of hardware accelerated inference on the desktop. I'm glad someone is shipping these models at least. RTX Voice is fantastic. They do the background blur / image segmentation thing better than others I've seen, too.

The case has been thoroughly proven on mobile and I think NVIDIA's done a lot to show we might want these things in our PCs too. DLSS and Voice are not quite the 'killer apps' that make it a must-have on every client desktop though. I guess we're still waiting for that, but I'm optimistic. People keep coming up with very neat stuff.

Kraftwerk
Aug 13, 2011


Subjunctive posted:

Iím very happy about the ending to the Kraftwerk 3080 Saga.

Trust me my partner is happy she doesnít have to listen to me talk about this anymore too. Haha.

steckles
Jan 13, 2006



v1ld posted:

So having the extra data available from a good TAA implementation may not be sufficient to have a good DLSS implementation in the same game? Interesting if so and may explain the gap between promise and reality right now. Thanks for the post, good read along with the one you responded to.
I think itís a matter of neural networks being really hard to reason about and there probably needs to be adjustments to avoid getting funky results. Stuff like the number of frames worth of data DLSS uses to do reconstruction is gonna be highly dependent on the specifics of a given game or scene. This could extend to altering the colour grading to avoid weird situations too far outside the training set.

Again, this is just speculation, but itís telling that getting access to DLSS involves jumping through hoops and seems to be behind an NDA. There havenít been, as far as I know, any third party really technical deep dives or blogs posts from gamedevs loving around with it. Why havenít we seen somebody add it to a Doom source port yet? This is the kind of stuff that gamedevs and graphics programmers would love to see and would be super informative but itís been crickets so far.

MarcusSA
Sep 23, 2007





Grimey Drawer

Fair Hallion posted:


The SSD sounds like a good idea but if moving the OS to it sounds tricky (I've heard of cloning tools but can they be used to take just the OS over to the SSD, leaving the games etc on the HDD?) sorry I realise that's not a gpu question, wrong thread maybe

Cloning is super easy these days.

Marcum Refract (free) is the one 99% of people recommend and itís literally like 3 clicks and done.

Highly recommend doing it as even a 500gb SSD is under $50 (ish) and will do loads to make the computer better to use.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Animal posted:

Right as in correct, or right as in ďmicrosoft flight simulator 2020 is just a glorified tech demoĒ?

literally in the blog posts at the launch my man, didn't you know?

quote:

Itís an exciting day for everyone at Asobo Studio and Microsoft. This all began as a demo of Machu Picchu in augmented reality for the Microsoft HoloLens and now weíre here, re-launching the franchise after 38 years
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/08...-available-now/

It was originally a tech demo thing called "HoloTour" that fused LIDAR data and satellite mapping to let you walk through a virtual replica of Macchu Pichu, and then they made a version that let you fly through seattle instead, and then started adding the ability to programmatically generate the data for anywhere in the world you wanted to go.

quote:

For HoloTour, Neumann was working with Asobo Studio in Bordeaux, France, which had developed a graphics engine specialized for huge virtual environments. Neumann discovered that the Bing team had detailed photogrammetry data down to 5-centimeter resolution for more than 400 cities. Microsoft contracts with various providers around the world, such as Vexcel Imaging, to fly all over the world using technologies including lidar (a laser version of radar), to generate imagery and models of the real world.

Neumann got the Bing photogrammetry for Seattle ("30, 40 gigs or something") and reached back out to the French studio in early 2017. "Asobo built themselves a quick Cessna 172 or something, and we flew over it, and it looked exactly like the city of Seattle at daytime," he said. Neumann showed a video to Spencer and got the green light to resurrect Flight.

Microsoft didn't have detailed photogrammetry for the whole planet, though, so it had to use proprietary satellite imagery in addition to traditional aerial photography. That's where a company called Blackshark.ai in Graz, Austria, came in. It just so happens that Bing's camera technology had been developed at a university there, and the town is home to a community of vision scientists.

Blackshark initially approached Neumann with a pitch to make a game about drone racing in the Alps. Neuman wasn't interested in a drone game but was definitely interested in the Alps. "They had things figured out like analyzing buildings and the color of the rooftops, and it was clear they had done a lot of work on machine learning, so I told them the vision: 'Hey, I just want to be able to go anywhere on Earth, and it has to look exactly right,'" he said. Blackshark became Asobo's co-developer on Flight.
https://www.protocol.com/microsoft-...-simulator-2020

So yeah it actually is an overgrown tech demo turned flight sim - with substantial additional development of course, I'm not minimizing that part, they obviously put work into turning it into a game after that. But the technical decisions reflect the times and original scope of the tech demo: when the technical decisions were being made in 2014, low-level engines (DX12/Vulkan) were not really a popular choice outside AAA studios (and really even there in 2014 most engines with DX12/Vulkan support were DX11 ports, not native DX12/Vulkan engines), so it's a DX11 engine, and it probably was not really designed around infinite open worlds, just reasonably large enough to simulate macchu pichu.

Now it's grown to a scope where the original engine no longer performs acceptably anymore (and that's my original point).

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Oct 18, 2020

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002



I've used macrium reflect three times now, it's super easy and it just works.

VorpalFish
Mar 22, 2007
reasonably awesometm

Fair Hallion posted:

Thanks, the PC isn't that old though, built from new parts 18 months ago or so, but just not latest or top of the range parts. So it's not an ancient PSU, just on the basic side.

Wait am I losing my mind? I swear the i7 2600 is from like 2011.

Zarin
Nov 11, 2008

I SEE YOU


VorpalFish posted:

Wait am I losing my mind? I swear the i7 2600 is from like 2011.

Looks like you're correct:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...2nd_generation)

Just because it was new in box doesn't mean it was manufactured recently

Hemish
Jan 24, 2005



VorpalFish posted:

Wait am I losing my mind? I swear the i7 2600 is from like 2011.

It is.

I also don't understand how he ended with this kind of computer 18 months ago. Hopefully he didn't pay too much, it sounds like the kind of custom builds "back to school" PC a shady local computer shop guy would do with old poo poo he had laying around because it never sold and never will since it's old.

I'm not trying to be a dick, Fair Hallion. If that's what happened, it would happen to me but with cars!

EDIT : It made me remember a local computer shop back in the late 90s and early 2000 where the guy in charge would build dirt cheap computers like that, old hardware, the cheapest parts he could find, etc... he would pirate Windows and Office too...

Hemish fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Oct 18, 2020

Zarin
Nov 11, 2008

I SEE YOU


A buddy asked me if the EVGA step-up program worked for items purchased from EVGA's own site, but from the B-stock section.

I suspect NOT, but figured I'd ask here before I answered too definitively one way or the other.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Zarin posted:

A buddy asked me if the EVGA step-up program worked for items purchased from EVGA's own site, but from the B-stock section.

I suspect NOT, but figured I'd ask here before I answered too definitively one way or the other.

You are correct. B-stock cards are not eligible to participate in Step Up.

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

Get the fuck in your cage and shut the fuck up, you stupid fucking Mexicans. Your voice doesn't fucking matter unless you support OUR rapist.

OBAMA DID NOTHING WRONG


https://twitter.com/OfficialPCMR/st...6252421122?s=20

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


no, b-stock is not eligible for step-up. It has to be a new retail part (sold by one of their authorized retailers, with a receipt to submit, not just a scalper on ebay) with the full warranty.

There is a full list of exclusions on the website, usually it works based on the suffix of the part. -KR is the typical suffix for a retail graphics part, B-stock will be -RX and those are not eligible.

I would assume it's somewhere on this page but I'm not finding it.

https://www.evga.com/support/stepup/

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

careful now


AirRaid posted:

It was no-one in particular, just a product of incredibly lazy/fast reading to confirm a half-baked thing I thought I knew before I posted.

Weíve all been there, myself especially.

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

Get the fuck in your cage and shut the fuck up, you stupid fucking Mexicans. Your voice doesn't fucking matter unless you support OUR rapist.

OBAMA DID NOTHING WRONG


lamo it just struck me that the artificial Titan/Geforce segmentation via gimped FP32 accumulate (to push ML users to their pro cards) might handicap games and consumer software that starts leveraging deep learning networks in their products.

K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot

If ML becomes a meaningful thing in video games - and that is a huge if - and if the operations necessary are needed at a performance level that can't be provided right now... then at some point over the many years it will take to reach that state, Nvidia will start providing the necessary acceleration. In fact, all historical evidence points to them providing pretty much every feature well before it's relevant.

You spend an awful lot of time imagining up incredibly unrealistic scenarios where nvidia commits self-ownage in a market they care about by ignoring your ML hobby. It never makes a single drat bit of sense.

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

Get the fuck in your cage and shut the fuck up, you stupid fucking Mexicans. Your voice doesn't fucking matter unless you support OUR rapist.

OBAMA DID NOTHING WRONG


lamo given that we've just spent the past couple pages talking about DLSS
but i guess it's not wrong to say that DLSS is a novelty in video games right now and not a real feature

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Either way gimped FP32 clearly isn't holding DLSS back at this point, so

Fuzz
Jun 2, 2003

Avatar brought to you by the
TG Sanity fund


Goons, I'm a little confused on the EVGA step up setup.... if the card I got is more expensive than their equivalent, I assume they're not gonna refund me the difference, correct? For example if I were to grab this:

https://smile.amazon.com/EVGA-GeFor...&tag=mozilla-20

And then try to step it up for a FTW3 Ultra, I'd just eat the $150 extra bucks, right? Would it even be a guaranteed step up at this point?

I ask because my current video card won't run Cyberpunk particularly well, but I have no issues with grabbing a 2080 now so I can play it at launch if it means I'll eventually be able to step up to a 3080 FTW3 Ultra, since who the hell knows when those will be available.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



Fuzz posted:

Goons, I'm a little confused on the EVGA step up setup.... if the card I got is more expensive than their equivalent, I assume they're not gonna refund me the difference, correct? For example if I were to grab this:

https://smile.amazon.com/EVGA-GeFor...&tag=mozilla-20

And then try to step it up for a FTW3 Ultra, I'd just eat the $150 extra bucks, right? Would it even be a guaranteed step up at this point?

I ask because my current video card won't run Cyberpunk particularly well, but I have no issues with grabbing a 2080 now so I can play it at launch if it means I'll eventually be able to step up to a 3080 FTW3 Ultra, since who the hell knows when those will be available.

Correct, though you need to make sure that you're buying from amazon themselves if you want to use the step up program. You need to be the first person to buy the card so no used stuff either.

Canna Happy
Jul 11, 2004
The engine, code A855, has a cast iron closed deck block and split crankcase. It uses an 8.1:1 compression ratio with Mahle cast eutectic aluminum alloy pistons, forged connecting rods with cracked caps and threaded-in 9 mm rod bolts, and a cast high

Fuzz posted:

And then try to step it up for a FTW3 Ultra, I'd just eat the $150 extra bucks, right? Would it even be a guaranteed step up at this point?

Correct, you lose anything over the step up price. The step up is guaranteed, but youíre going to be at the back of a long long line if you join now.

Be careful where you purchase the card from. It needs to be from an authorized retailer, and the card you linked does not qualify due to not being sold by amazon proper.

Fuzz
Jun 2, 2003

Avatar brought to you by the
TG Sanity fund


Next question, since it seems that the FTW3 Ultra is the card they auto step up to according to their list... so if I grab this one:

https://smile.amazon.com/EVGA-GeFor...&tag=mozilla-20

Slightly cheaper, from th EVGA store... it would still get upgraded to the FTW3 Ultra? Because that was the specific card I wanted anyway, so in this case with the taxes and shipping costs, I'd be out maybe only like $120 over retail. That sound right?

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Fuzz posted:

Slightly cheaper, from th EVGA store... it would still get upgraded to the FTW3 Ultra? Because that was the specific card I wanted anyway, so in this case with the taxes and shipping costs, I'd be out maybe only like $120 over retail. That sound right?

Correct. The 3080 FTW3 Ultra is the only 3080 card they're currently offering as a step up target. So no matter where you start, that's your only option if you want a 3080.

Fuzz
Jun 2, 2003

Avatar brought to you by the
TG Sanity fund


DrDork posted:

Correct. The 3080 FTW3 Ultra is the only 3080 card they're currently offering as a step up target. So no matter where you start, that's your only option if you want a 3080.

Well poo poo, pulling the trigger then. I can wait, I just wanted to be able to play Cyberpunk with all the poo poo turned on before everyone and their mom spoiled the poo poo out of it.

EDIT: Scratch that, gonna wait a few days since there's 14 day window to register from original purchase date, and this will ship on 11/1, so there's a chance I could get it too late to register.

Fuzz fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Oct 18, 2020

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



Fuzz posted:

Next question, since it seems that the FTW3 Ultra is the card they auto step up to according to their list... so if I grab this one:

https://smile.amazon.com/EVGA-GeFor...&tag=mozilla-20

Slightly cheaper, from th EVGA store... it would still get upgraded to the FTW3 Ultra? Because that was the specific card I wanted anyway, so in this case with the taxes and shipping costs, I'd be out maybe only like $120 over retail. That sound right?



You can buy any card ending with -KR and step up to whatever you want, you just pay the difference. You cannot be refunded. So I would buy a 2070 or a cheaper 2080 so you're not wasting money.

Though with the FTW3 Ultra you're only losing like $12 I think?

Fuzz
Jun 2, 2003

Avatar brought to you by the
TG Sanity fund


hobbesmaster posted:

You can buy any card ending with -KR and step up to whatever you want, you just pay the difference. You cannot be refunded. So I would buy a 2070 or a cheaper 2080 so you're not wasting money.

Though with the FTW3 Ultra you're only losing like $12 I think?

That's true, the 3070 hasn't been added to their list yet. I guess I'll just grab an in stock 2070 in that case.

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

Get the fuck in your cage and shut the fuck up, you stupid fucking Mexicans. Your voice doesn't fucking matter unless you support OUR rapist.

OBAMA DID NOTHING WRONG


DrDork posted:

Either way gimped FP32 clearly isn't holding DLSS back at this point, so

Thatís the thing, they probably donít reduce performance when DLSS is being used since itís a driver level setting. It just means all attempts to build a 3rd party analogue on a GeForce is going to be handicapped.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Also, the Hydro Copper SKUs are designed for people with custom loop water cooling, they have no built in cooling, so you'd simply be buying a paperweight.

Fuzz
Jun 2, 2003

Avatar brought to you by the
TG Sanity fund


BIG HEADLINE posted:

Also, the Hydro Copper SKUs are designed for people with custom loop water cooling, they have no built in cooling, so you'd simply be buying a paperweight.

Yeah, just looked into that. Thanks for the heads up. Found a much cheaper 2070 option.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Discrete Intel Xe seems imminent:

https://www.asus.com/2-in-1-PCs/ASU...lip-14-TP470EZ/

The text on the page is clearly a stand in for the real name, but the page source calls it "Intel Iris Xe Max"

AirRaid
Dec 21, 2004

Nose Manual + Super Sonic Spin Attack

Meanwhile, in Japan:



The ASUS Rog STRIX 3090 GUNDAM Edition.

ughhhh
Oct 17, 2012



AirRaid posted:

Meanwhile, in Japan:



The ASUS Rog STRIX 3090 GUNDAM Edition.

I hope they have a zaku edition with a mono eye red LED.

Edit: holy crap, that mono eye aio!

ughhhh fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Oct 18, 2020

Endymion FRS MK1
Oct 28, 2011



ughhhh posted:

I hope they have a zaku edition with a mono eye red LED.

Edit: holy crap, that mono eye aio!



I need that whole Zaku setup holy god

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN


ughhhh posted:

I hope they have a zaku edition with a mono eye red LED.

Edit: holy crap, that mono eye aio!



I was like "what the gently caress is that extra slot next to the RAM" and had to do some searching to figure it out. I guess ASUS has some proprietary daughter card to run M2 drives off of there. And it can have its own fan.

sauer kraut
Oct 2, 2004


DrDork posted:

The ones right now are solidly ok, but it's taken many months to get to that point.

What no they're not, the UI looks fancy but nothing works.
Forced vsync doesn't work on anything beyond DX9 and/or opengl (they don't tell you)
AF clamp only works on DX9 but they do tell you that in all fairness
Chill hasn't worked as a frame limiter in ages for me, it seems to do nothing
Anti-Lag and Enhanced Sync cause so many issues that the r/amd recommendation is to just leave it off
For Vega/Navi there is still a chance that your Tuning settings are either ignored or reset randomly

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

ijyt
Apr 10, 2012



ughhhh posted:

I hope they have a zaku edition with a mono eye red LED.

Edit: holy crap, that mono eye aio!



I'd have bought a Zaku ITX board in a heartbeat god drat it why'd it have to be mATX.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply