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Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010






it rules how GPUs are now like real estate where a real good that can be used to perform a function has become totally financialized so big institutional money is snapping up all of it and mere mortals who want to actually use it as something other than a speculative investment asset are locked out forever

Shear Modulus fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Feb 22, 2021

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change my name
Aug 27, 2007

Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.



Shear Modulus posted:

it rules how GPUs are now like real estate where big institutional money is snapping up all of it so mere mortals who want to actually use it as something other than a speculative investment asset are locked out forever

I will rent remote access to my 3060 ti for only $100 a week

Threadkiller Dog
Jun 9, 2010


I like how I considered the 3080 for 800€ my least financially responsible purchase by far last year. Lol as it turns out to have been the most fortunate

90s Solo Cup
Feb 22, 2011

To understand the cup
He must become the cup





change my name posted:

I will rent remote access to my 3060 ti for only $100 a week

Streaming games meets Remote GPU Access as a Service (RGPUAaaS). A match made in Hell.

Mr.PayDay
Jan 2, 2004
life is short - play hard

The library of DLSS games where AMD RDNA2 GPUs get surpassed by older Turing GPUs is growing.

https://youtu.be/xloQ5HPlmhQ

So Medium is another game where it’s obvious that AMD desperately needs its ML reconstruction and/or scaling compensation.

The 6900XT struggles to beat a 3060Ti here.

In CoD Cold War the 6900XT powers 100 fps in 4K ultra, but the 3070 does it as well, thanks to DLSS.
Metro is coming with DLSS 2.0 and so is Witcher 3.

I really hope AMD can stay competitive here.

strange feelings re Daisy
Aug 2, 2000




Threadkiller Dog posted:

I like how I considered the 3080 for 800€ my least financially responsible purchase by far last year. Lol as it turns out to have been the most fortunate
Same. I was hesitant buying a 3060ti during the plague economy but I wanted it for Cyberpunk so bad. Now scalpers are selling them on ebay for $1300

mA
Jul 9, 2001
I am the ugly lover.

Mr.PayDay posted:

The library of DLSS games where AMD RDNA2 GPUs get surpassed by older Turing GPUs is growing.

https://youtu.be/xloQ5HPlmhQ

So Medium is another game where it’s obvious that AMD desperately needs its ML reconstruction and/or scaling compensation.

The 6900XT struggles to beat a 3060Ti here.

In CoD Cold War the 6900XT powers 100 fps in 4K ultra, but the 3070 does it as well, thanks to DLSS.
Metro is coming with DLSS 2.0 and so is Witcher 3.

I really hope AMD can stay competitive here.

Has there ever been a time where GPU benchmarks have had so little influence on the real world market? I find myself apathetic to these head to head comparisons, since both 3000 and 6000 series cards are going to continue sell out within seconds because GPU demand across the board is going to be insatiable indefinitely. It's plausible that AMD could decide forego their DLSS competitor for this current generation and it wouldn't hurt their GPU sales one bit.

mA fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Feb 22, 2021

Inept
Jul 8, 2003

3 olives has a payment plan with his phone company for his cell phone

Yeah nitpicking about raytracing performance in some game no one will play seems immaterial when no one can buy anything unless they pay 2-3x MSRP or run a bot and sit at their computer all day for when the bot breaks.

Shipon
Nov 7, 2005


Inept posted:

Yeah nitpicking about raytracing performance in some game no one will play seems immaterial when no one can buy anything unless they pay 2-3x MSRP or run a bot and sit at their computer all day for when the bot breaks.

It's a real shame because absent supply/demand issues and scalping, both AMD and nVidia have real solid cards this generation. The 3080 is an absolute monster of a card for the MSRP it was originally priced at and AMD is trading blows with the top end, something they haven't done in a long, long time.

Mr.PayDay
Jan 2, 2004
life is short - play hard

Yeah I get that it feels like a “disconnect” to read about benchmarks, features, new GPUs like the 3060Ti or 6700XT when you try to find your new GPU since months and are simply locked out of your hobby and it feels like you can’t even get the September 2020 released 3080 now, 5 months later.

A work buddy had his “gently caress pc GPUs, I am buying a PS5 then”, and you guys might have an idea how that went.
Local eBay listing = 900 Euro. Obviously he did not buy it, but the desperation grows.

German ALDI Süd will sell a 1500 Euro MEDION Erazor rig with 3070, 10700K, 32 Gig and 1 TB SSD and Win 10.

These system will be sold out within minutes and listed on eBay.de for 1800-2000 Euro asap.

It’s such bullshit.

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010






Mr.PayDay posted:

Yeah I get that it feels like a “disconnect” to read about benchmarks, features, new GPUs like the 3060Ti or 6700XT when you try to find your new GPU since months and are simply locked out of your hobby and it feels like you can’t even get the September 2020 released 3080 now, 5 months later.

A work buddy had his “gently caress pc GPUs, I am buying a PS5 then”, and you guys might have an idea how that went.
Local eBay listing = 900 Euro. Obviously he did not buy it, but the desperation grows.

German ALDI Süd will sell a 1500 Euro MEDION Erazor rig with 3070, 10700K, 32 Gig and 1 TB SSD and Win 10.

These system will be sold out within minutes and listed on eBay.de for 1800-2000 Euro asap.

It’s such bullshit.

It feels exactly like the house buying experience lol. Everything gets snapped up by some faceless LLC or speculator as soon as it hits the market and made available to you at an insane markup.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012


"Why does that Subaru break down every time you look at it, Travis", Punchy said. I nearly fell out of the jump seat in my Brat, aghast. "That thing a princess?" I coughed and gulped. "Hahahaha, nice one, Punchy", I said

Shear Modulus posted:

It feels exactly like the house buying experience lol. Everything gets snapped up by some faceless LLC or speculator as soon as it hits the market and made available to you at an insane markup.

put huge progressive taxes on real estate speculation

put huge progressive taxes on online transactions

TAX TAX TAX TAX

TAX EVERYTHING

Inept
Jul 8, 2003

3 olives has a payment plan with his phone company for his cell phone

I remember in early 2020 looking at GPUs and everyone saying it was a bad time to buy because prices weren't great and new stuff was around the corner. They weren't wrong to think that at the time, but I'm glad my GTX 970 started artifacting so I had to buy something back then.

greasyhands
Oct 28, 2006

Best quality posts,
freshly delivered


I spent a couple of days doing the discord thing a couple months back to get myself a 3060ti. Paid $460 all in. Had no intention of scalping it but after a couple months use, I just sold it on ebay for $1200. Whatever, fight me. Ill just use my laptop until i can get a 3080 at msrp and then have a basically free gaming pc. The world is spinning out of control

Shipon
Nov 7, 2005


Ahahah jesus I just looked at the 3090 prices on eBay, $3000+

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

Shipon posted:

Ahahah jesus I just looked at the 3090 prices on eBay, $3000+

The Titan V was $3000 MSRP if it makes you feel any better.

edit: OK maybe it won't make you feel better lol:

Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Feb 22, 2021

mA
Jul 9, 2001
I am the ugly lover.

These are how much the last 6 3080 FE's have sold for on ebay. The first two might be fake bidders, but everything else has sold for no less than $2000

Only registered members can see post attachments!

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

Get the fuck in your cage and shut the fuck up, you stupid fucking Mexicans. Your voice doesn't fucking matter unless you support OUR rapist.

OBAMA DID NOTHING WRONG


a sane country/government/economic system would look at these supply chain issues and go "maybe we can create domestic jobs by catering to this demand for high-end manufacturing processes"

but

Rusty
Sep 28, 2001


Dinosaur Gum

I'm glad I only have a 3080 right now because if I still had my 1080 TI I don't think I would pass up 2k.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?





Truly amazing that the GPU situation has actually managed to get significantly worse since the fall, after already being bad

The Gadfly
Sep 23, 2012


shrike82 posted:

a sane country/government/economic system would look at these supply chain issues and go "maybe we can create domestic jobs by catering to this demand for high-end manufacturing processes"

but

I read that Japan used to have government incentives for semiconductor foundries at one point. This was back when they used to make electronics for almost everyone in the world. I don't know why they stopped the incentives. Maybe it became so much cheaper to manufacture in China instead, that it no longer made sense for companies to not outsource manufacturing despite the incentives. I don't even think Japan has a semiconductor foundry anymore.

I hope new foundries pop up as a result... I don't think it has ever been this hard to buy a loving graphics card.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



FlamingLiberal posted:

Truly amazing that the GPU situation has actually managed to get significantly worse since the fall, after already being bad

Well, this is the month where nothing gets produced so once it was still bad in January it was going to get worst during CNY.

Rusty
Sep 28, 2001


Dinosaur Gum

I have an RX480 I don't use so I looked on ebay at prices and they are between $100 and $200 more than I paid 5 years ago new.

wyoak
Feb 14, 2005

a glass case of emotion



Fallen Rib

i lucked into a 3080FE during one of the Best Buy January drops, I probably shoulda held on to my 1070 and just sold this thing
or gone hard on the used 1070, i sold it for $175 like a reasonable chump

buglord
Jul 31, 2010




Buglord

wyoak posted:

i lucked into a 3080FE during one of the Best Buy January drops, I probably shoulda held on to my 1070 and just sold this thing
or gone hard on the used 1070, i sold it for $175 like a reasonable chump

Yeah l was looking to get rid of my 1070 for $180 back in Dec when I snagged a 3070, was worried the 1070 would continue to depreciate as time went on.

Had I waited I would have gotten a lot more

3070 seems to be pretty anemic with RTX at 1440p resolutions, at least with my experience in Control and Cyperpunk. A little let down, but baked in lighting still looks good even if it’s not organic. Given the choice between RTX or better frame rates, I’m going with the latter. DLSS is wizard magic though and I’m really excited to see how that will mature on both team green/red/blue as time goes on.

e: I guess this is to say, if anyone here manages to snag an AMD GPU but feels like they’re missing out with RTX, my opinion is “not really”.

buglord fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Feb 23, 2021

gary oldmans diary
Sep 26, 2005





love the new marketplace paradigm ✅✅✅✅

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

A VAST WIFE WING CONSPIRACY

I almost feel guilty for using my RTX 3070 to play video games, run BOINC code at off hours, and run my work desktop. I'd sell it at a handsome profit, but then I'd lose raytracing and have no guarantee at ALL that I'd be able to replace it. This poo poo is broken.

Shipon
Nov 7, 2005


shrike82 posted:

a sane country/government/economic system would look at these supply chain issues and go "maybe we can create domestic jobs by catering to this demand for high-end manufacturing processes"

but

i told some guy i was in grad school for semiconductor-related work and he was like "oh you'll end up in web dev like everyone else i knew", everyone's just chasing software here

strange feelings re Daisy
Aug 2, 2000




shrike82 posted:

a sane country/government/economic system would look at these supply chain issues and go "maybe we can create domestic jobs by catering to this demand for high-end manufacturing processes"

but
Foundries cost billions of dollars to build and don't reach profitability for years so top-down government intervention help immensely. The Taiwanese government was a shareholder in the early foundries(including TSMC), and China's SIMC is also partially state owned. South Korea supports foundry investments through state owned banks. I think all three subsidize training for engineers in some way as well.

The US doesn't do the State Capitalism thing and historically hasn't offered much beyond tax breaks. The new Defense Authorization Bill does have a semi-conductor section attached that gives a budget for incentives but it's not clear to me yet what exactly those incentives are.

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

Get the fuck in your cage and shut the fuck up, you stupid fucking Mexicans. Your voice doesn't fucking matter unless you support OUR rapist.

OBAMA DID NOTHING WRONG


US does state capitalism all the time beyond tax breaks. That people assume we don’t highlights how bad “free market” think has infected discussions about economics

mA
Jul 9, 2001
I am the ugly lover.

shrike82 posted:

US does state capitalism all the time beyond tax breaks. That people assume we don’t highlights how bad “free market” think has infected discussions about economics

For example, the Fed's monetary policy since 2008 has almost singularly revolved around providing unlimited cheap money via quantitative easing.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



mA posted:

For example, the Fed's monetary policy since 2008 has almost singularly revolved around providing unlimited cheap money via quantitative easing.

That doesn’t help manufacturing though, just banking and short term investment in stuff like web startups.

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

Get the fuck in your cage and shut the fuck up, you stupid fucking Mexicans. Your voice doesn't fucking matter unless you support OUR rapist.

OBAMA DID NOTHING WRONG


i'm thinking along the lines of states offering Amazon a cut of its employees' personal income taxes in a bid for the HQ2 site

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



That’s not something to encourage long term investment in something like a foundry.

Shipon
Nov 7, 2005


too difficult, lets just throw tens of billions of dollars at a few software developers and hedge fund guys to make an iphone app that lets you rent out the passenger seat of your car

Nothus
Feb 22, 2001




Rusty posted:

I have an RX480 I don't use so I looked on ebay at prices and they are between $100 and $200 more than I paid 5 years ago new.

I have a 1660 super that is worth twice what I paid for it, and I can't get an RTX 20xx for less than $700.

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010






hobbesmaster posted:

That doesn’t help manufacturing though, just banking and short term investment in stuff like web startups.

Manufacturing is much less profitable and harder than rent extraction and speculation

Witness big money chasing bitcoin mining instead of chip production

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


Shipon posted:

It's a real shame because absent supply/demand issues and scalping, both AMD and nVidia have real solid cards this generation. The 3080 is an absolute monster of a card for the MSRP it was originally priced at and AMD is trading blows with the top end, something they haven't done in a long, long time.

speaking of which evga FTW3 ultra dropped today on Amazon as well. $1199 as well. Guess that's the new going-rate at this point, almost twice NVIDIA's advertised MSRP...

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

Bespoke artisanal hand crafted graphics cards

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Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


shrike82 posted:

a sane country/government/economic system would look at these supply chain issues and go "maybe we can create domestic jobs by catering to this demand for high-end manufacturing processes"

but

the thing is nobody really knows whether this level of demand is here to stay or whether it's a passing phenomenon. You could build a bunch of foundry capacity and in 5 years when it comes online there's a recession (we're overdue) and nobody is buying poo poo. Also the node development is a risk, if you're not TSMC and don't already have a cutting-edge node going.

the GloFo decision not to take the final step to 7nm after going through the whole development process is looking myopic as poo poo though, like holy gently caress guys just build another building so you don't have to rip out your previous generation, why in the gently caress don't they have at least a couple fab buildings so that they can amortize everything over a 10-15 year cycle instead of needing to rip everything out every 5 years? I know fab buildings are expensive but I don't get how the math even works without having a couple fabs, trailing-edge nodes are a huge chunk of revenue for fabs these days.

I'm sure they thought of that and didn't need somethingawful posters to tell them how to do their job but from the outside holy poo poo does that look dumb.

but yeah in general the last year has been a wakeup call that everyone is overly dependent on TSMC and really needs their own fabs. The EU and the US basically have a couple Intel fabs and some previous-node GloFo stuff and that's really it, the US has that little TSMC fab going up in Arizona, and the EU just launched a big incentive program this week for fab development. Ford's production lines getting shut down due to chip shortages was a big alarm bell for policymakers I think.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Feb 23, 2021

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