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repiv
Aug 13, 2009

Well at least the feature set is mostly coherent this time



I for one look forward to another year of AMD throwing a tantrum every time a TWIMTBP/Gameworks game uses tessellation :suicide:

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xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

If anyone, Kepler owners should be pissed. AMD lets you drop the tesselation factor so you can run things with a sensible level and get about the same image quality and more performance.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Didn't Kepler just get a good driver fix that helps with that?

SkyEnzo
Mar 8, 2015

No time for the old in-out, love, I've just come to read the meter.

repiv posted:

Well at least the feature set is mostly coherent this time



I for one look forward to another year of AMD throwing a tantrum every time a TWIMTBP/Gameworks game uses tessellation :suicide:

I got to admit I do enjoy watching AMD fanboys go crazy when some innocent by stander asks what nvidia card should they buy. I used to preach AMD years ago but this gen is nvidias. Maybe in a few years I will preach AMD again. Right now though nvidia has the better gpu's if you can afford it.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Subjunctive posted:

Didn't Kepler just get a good driver fix that helps with that?

Nahh, that was overall performance in and out of Hairworks, not Hairworks performance in particular. I'm not sure if Hairworks had its performance hit reduced, but its not as much as just dropping the tesselation factor down a notch.

SkyEnzo posted:

I got to admit I do enjoy watching AMD fanboys go crazy when some innocent by stander asks what nvidia card should they buy. I used to preach AMD years ago but this gen is nvidias. Maybe in a few years I will preach AMD again. Right now though nvidia has the better gpu's if you can afford it.

I'd go crazy if someone asked which card from one particular brand they should buy. It doesn't matter if you're looking for the best frame rates for the dollar below $250 and you only want to buy AMD, it's still goddamn stupid to not consider the competition.

xthetenth fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Jun 8, 2015

repiv
Aug 13, 2009

xthetenth posted:

If anyone, Kepler owners should be pissed. AMD lets you drop the tesselation factor so you can run things with a sensible level and get about the same image quality and more performance.

Has there been any case other than TW3 where forcing the tessellation factor down doesn't affect image quality?

Far Cry 4s implementation of Hairworks ran fine on GCN and Kepler, so I suspect The Witchers excessive tessellation might be due to CDPR configuring it poorly.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

repiv posted:

The Witchers excessive tessellation might be due to CDPR configuring it poorly.
Bingo. It was pretty much a last-minute implementation.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

repiv posted:

Has there been any case other than TW3 where forcing the tessellation factor down doesn't affect image quality?

Far Cry 4s implementation of Hairworks ran fine on GCN and Kepler, so I suspect The Witchers excessive tessellation might be due to CDPR configuring it poorly.

Not sure. Last thing like that I can think of is that business with Batman's cape a long while back, which was pretty funny but predates GW. I'm pretty sure that's why AMD drivers have that option in the first place.

I can't think of another case where forcing tesselation down worked like that, but normally it isn't such a huge blow to performance that people actually try. I don't even know if CDPR can touch that code to be honest, GW is really weird about legal stuff like that.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009

I never did buy the Batman one. How do they expect them to do convincing cloth physics without using a very dense mesh for deformation?

sauer kraut
Oct 2, 2004

Truga posted:

Do we have any ideas on 4GB Tonga yet? I know 285 were pretty lovely, but IIRC that was mostly due to lovely clocks/low ram, but performance per clock was actually pretty good? Or am I misremembering?

It's the only card that would be somewhat interesting, so expect to hear nothing about it until Christmas.*
How they even dare peddling that old poo poo without at least Tonga features on everything is baffling.

The full 3/6GB Tonga

sauer kraut fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jun 8, 2015

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

repiv posted:

I never did buy the Batman one. How do they expect them to do convincing cloth physics without using a very dense mesh for deformation?

I should look it up again because all I remember was wireframe mode turning his cape nearly pure pink.

EmpyreanFlux
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!

repiv posted:

Well at least the feature set is mostly coherent this time



I for one look forward to another year of AMD throwing a tantrum every time a TWIMTBP/Gameworks game uses tessellation :suicide:

Looks like the 380s and the Furies are the things to buy if you want AMD, the 390s don't seem super worth it. The 370 and 360 pricing is massively aggressive though, I wonder if the R9 370 can get close enough to the GTX 960?

Also, 390$ for a 390X seems like it could put Fury Pro @ 450-500, and Fury XT @ 550-650.

EmpyreanFlux fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jun 8, 2015

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

I LITERALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO NOT BE A WEIRD SEXUAL CREEP ABOUT PREPUBESCENT ANIME GIRLS, READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE!!!
No 390/X with 4GB of vram to replace the 290/X? That seems sort of lovely. I guess people should get those 290/X cards while they are still cheap and in stock.

BOOTY-ADE
Aug 30, 2006

BIG KOOL TELLIN' Y'ALL TO KEEP IT TIGHT

Fauxtool posted:

I dont know whether its the new game patch or a new nvidia driver, but I am noticing a lot of missing textures playing witcher 3 where before I had none. Its pretty silky smooth compared to before where it might have chugged a little loading in a town.

What could this be a symptom of?

on a 970 and the temps show nothing unusual.

Hard to say - did you do both the driver update and the game patch around the same time? Or install one patch, play the game, then install the other? I'd start by blowing the graphics driver away and doing a clean install (remove, boot to safe mode, run Driver Sweeper/CCleaner, boot into normal mode & install drivers with AV disabled) then test. If it still happens, most likely it's the game patch, wouldn't doubt it after the wonky/buggy stuff I've seen people experience, especially after perusing the game glitch thread.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo

repiv posted:

Well at least the feature set is mostly coherent this time



I for one look forward to another year of AMD throwing a tantrum every time a TWIMTBP/Gameworks game uses tessellation :suicide:

Interesting. Am I correct in that I remember seeing something that says that Maxwell will only hit resource binding level 2, as opposed to AMD's level 3 there?

SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jun 8, 2015

repiv
Aug 13, 2009

Yep, Maxwell only does resource binding Tier 2 but unlike GCN it supports feature level 12_1. This is apparently the current state of DX12 support:



The difference between Tier 3 and Tier 2 is basically "unlimited" and "a lot" of binding points, I don't think there will be a significant difference until you get down to Tier 1.

repiv fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Jun 8, 2015

ZenVulgarity
Oct 9, 2012

I made the hat by transforming my zen

Who the gently caress is GALAX and should I trust them with money

SlayVus
Jul 10, 2009
Grimey Drawer

ZenVulgarity posted:

Who the gently caress is GALAX and should I trust them with money

GALAX is Galaxy

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

ZenVulgarity posted:

Who the gently caress is GALAX and should I trust them with money

Don't. If you're looking at that crazy voltsucker supreme just wait for an MSI lightning.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo

ZenVulgarity posted:

Who the gently caress is GALAX and should I trust them with money

Is/was Galaxy. They're pretty much the only option if you need a low-profile 750Ti, and that's the only reason you should even consider them, because that's your last hope. Single slot thingie, dual slot cooler, but I've been eyeing the CNC mill at work and am probably going to whip up a single-slot heatsink to frankenstein the existing fan into once I'm done with my laser engraver project.

Scrap that, MSI finally came out with their own. Still a dual-slot cooler with a single-slot interface, though.

SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Jun 8, 2015

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001

Why is anyone still fussing with low-profile video cards in 2015? Forced to use a low-profile Dell because of work requirements or something?

penus penus penus
Nov 9, 2014

by piss__donald
I think its more common a topic now than before with all the slim cases. I actually bought someone a slim 750ti and shipped it to Canada ... maybe it was SwissArmyDruid :P

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo

Rastor posted:

Why is anyone still fussing with low-profile video cards in 2015? Forced to use a low-profile Dell because of work requirements or something?

My dad keeps bitching that his Z-box knockoff is underpowered and poo poo, and I keep threatening to build him a proper DVD-player sized HTPC, and he keeps declining.

The_Franz
Aug 8, 2003

THE DOG HOUSE posted:

I think its more common a topic now than before with all the slim cases. I actually bought someone a slim 750ti and shipped it to Canada ... maybe it was SwissArmyDruid :P

Years ago most of the slim HTPC cases out there needed half-height cards, but these days there are plenty of small cases with risers that can accept the current generation of giant video cards.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo
Agreed, but it doesn't change the fact that I have a 750 Ti with nothing to stick it in. Besides, the more I make it look like a DVD player, the less he'll resist when I foist it off on him.

I just regret that I can't find a goddamn ITX AM2/3 board anywhere for me to re-use my Phenom II X4 965 in.

Seriously, if anyone knows someone with a M4A88T-I or any other AM3-based ITX board or something, PM me, and we'll work out some details.

SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Jun 8, 2015

penus penus penus
Nov 9, 2014

by piss__donald
MId Tower 4 lyfe




because its going on the floor anyway lol

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo
Ehhhhh, I'm one of those people who really likes to go for power/liter. My next box (which I'm assessing right now, because I think the pump on my Antec Kuhler 620 is starting to flake?) is probably going to be one of the following: RVZ02, RVZ1/ML07B, Corsair Bulldog (I really like the AIO watercooler they built for it) Deepcool Nephrite, or that other Deepcool case that was shown off at Computex.

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001

The_Franz posted:

Years ago most of the slim HTPC cases out there needed half-height cards, but these days there are plenty of small cases with risers that can accept the current generation of giant video cards.

Yeah this is what I meant, that cases with risers is the new hotness.


SwissArmyDruid posted:

Ehhhhh, I'm one of those people who really likes to go for power/liter. My next box (which I'm assessing right now, because I think the pump on my Antec Kuhler 620 is starting to flake?) is probably going to be one of the following: RVZ02, RVZ1/ML07B, Corsair Bulldog (I really like the AIO watercooler they built for it) Deepcool Nephrite, or that other Deepcool case that was shown off at Computex.

No love for the Fractal Design Node 202? The Silverstone ML07B is nice too though.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo

Rastor posted:

Yeah this is what I meant, that cases with risers is the new hotness.


No love for the Fractal Design Node 202? The Silverstone ML07B is nice too though.

Ooh, right, I knew I was forgetting one! Yes, the Node 202 is on my short list as well.

Ragingsheep
Nov 7, 2009
What's the layman's explanation of the difference between resource binding level 2 and 3?

History Comes Inside!
Nov 20, 2004




I posted this in the parts thread before realising there was a dedicated GPU thread because I'm impatient and dumb.

I have a 6870x2 and I want to replace it but I don't want to spend a retarded amount of money like I did when I bought this card. The 970 is obviously a great deal right now and has double the memory but looks like a downgrade in most other measures (compared them on GPUboss which is a site I'd never heard of before so please don't shame me if it's garbage tier)

Please explain why I'm an idiot for even considering not replacing my 6 year old graphics card so my wife will let me spend money on toys.

veedubfreak
Apr 2, 2005

by Smythe

THE DOG HOUSE posted:

MId Tower 4 lyfe




because its going on the floor anyway lol

If your case doesn't have wheels and at least half a gallon of water in it you ain't trying hard enough.

SlayVus
Jul 10, 2009
Grimey Drawer
The PPT is the right thread, but here are some things to consider.

6870 X2 is a dual GPU solution in one card. Meaning, basically, half everything it has.

Not all games support CFX.
This card has 1/4 the memory of a GTX 970. Aka only 1GB per GPU, VRAM is mirrored across the two GPUs for CFX purposes.
Uses 152w more power
Has ~60% the memory bandwidth
Supports only DX 11.0

On 3DMark 2011
6870 X2 scores 8075
GTX 970 scores 13548

http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/club3d-radeon-hd-6870-x2-review,21.html
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/nvidia-geforce-gtx-970-and-980-reference-review,20.html

SlayVus fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jun 9, 2015

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
Yeah, a 970 is better in pretty much every way, IMO. It's faster than 6870x2 even when crossfire is working absolutely at its best, and that's not often enough in your case, really.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

I LITERALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO NOT BE A WEIRD SEXUAL CREEP ABOUT PREPUBESCENT ANIME GIRLS, READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE!!!

MAKE WAY NEW STARS posted:

I posted this in the parts thread before realising there was a dedicated GPU thread because I'm impatient and dumb.

I have a 6870x2 and I want to replace it but I don't want to spend a retarded amount of money like I did when I bought this card. The 970 is obviously a great deal right now and has double the memory but looks like a downgrade in most other measures (compared them on GPUboss which is a site I'd never heard of before so please don't shame me if it's garbage tier)

Please explain why I'm an idiot for even considering not replacing my 6 year old graphics card so my wife will let me spend money on toys.

The big problem is the lack of VRAM on your current card, games are demanding around 4GB+ of VRAM depending on your monitor's resolution. At 1080p-1440p you want around 4GB, at 4k you want more like 6GB+, i.e. a 980ti or Titan X. If you do multi monitor gaming I'd say you really want a 980ti. Your old card has the problem of being very fast otherwise but just not having enough VRAM to take advantage of that speed.

Gwaihir
Dec 8, 2009
Hair Elf

MAKE WAY NEW STARS posted:

I posted this in the parts thread before realising there was a dedicated GPU thread because I'm impatient and dumb.

I have a 6870x2 and I want to replace it but I don't want to spend a retarded amount of money like I did when I bought this card. The 970 is obviously a great deal right now and has double the memory but looks like a downgrade in most other measures (compared them on GPUboss which is a site I'd never heard of before so please don't shame me if it's garbage tier)

Please explain why I'm an idiot for even considering not replacing my 6 year old graphics card so my wife will let me spend money on toys.

The 970 is vastly, vastly more powerful and capable, while running cooler and using much less power. A single 6870 is something like 1/3 at best the performance of a 970. And if you go over 1080 resolution it's going to be even more dramatically slower than a 970, since you'll hit 1 gig vram used no problem and FPS will dive off a cliff.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

MAKE WAY NEW STARS posted:

I posted this in the parts thread before realising there was a dedicated GPU thread because I'm impatient and dumb.

I have a 6870x2 and I want to replace it but I don't want to spend a retarded amount of money like I did when I bought this card. The 970 is obviously a great deal right now and has double the memory but looks like a downgrade in most other measures (compared them on GPUboss which is a site I'd never heard of before so please don't shame me if it's garbage tier)

Please explain why I'm an idiot for even considering not replacing my 6 year old graphics card so my wife will let me spend money on toys.

Generational leaps are the big gamechanger.

Those 6870s are a pair of very old cards, and time has not treated them well. Thankfully AMD's been keeping cards in service so it's easy to get a comparison.

6870 CF is pretty obviously considerably lower performance than a single 7970 (using a real rough rule of thumb and erring on the side of overestimating the 6870 CF). Assuming the second card adds 70% the 7970 is probably 15% faster

A single 7970 is considerably lower performance than a single stock clocked R9 290X, it looks like the 290X is something like 50% faster on average.

Currently the R9 290s they're selling are all mounted with aftermarket heatsinks, and those cards generally perform even with stock R9 290Xs.

What would this nearly 75% increase in performance cost you? Currently newegg's got one up for $250. With a $30 rebate for a total cost of $220.

Generally in the future the best way to do things is to go for the price/performance hot spot (right now between the R9 290 and GTX 970), run the cards for a generation or two, sell them, and pick up the same level card. Flipping them more often lets you see more of your investment back, waiting longer gets you a bigger jump in performance.

Oh and the 290 doesn't require CF support, and doesn't have serious frame timing issues like the pre-290 cards did in CF, and it's got 4 GB of memory, so higher settings won't send FPS into a freefall.

Edit: wow I got beat to the punch.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009

Ragingsheep posted:

What's the layman's explanation of the difference between resource binding level 2 and 3?

As I understand it Tier 3 allows the engine to bundle an unlimited number of assets together for fast binding to the shader pipeline, while Tier 2 and 1 impose some restrictions on how large the bundles can be.

That might impose some extra CPU overhead if the limits are exceeded since multiple bundles will need to be managed, but the limits of Tier 2 are so high that I don't think it will be much of a factor in real world performance.

History Comes Inside!
Nov 20, 2004




Buying a 970 thanks all

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xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

You should probably know that aftermarket vs. aftermarket, the 970 only gives about 5% more performance than a 290 non-X.

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