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Randallteal
May 7, 2006

Good night, sweet prince, And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest

jokes posted:

Why in the world is Ivalice supposed to be pronounced "Ee-va-lees" that is truly absurd to me.

Not as bad as Tidus IMO. What other weird name pronunciations could the early FFs be hiding? I bet Rinoa is actually pronounced like quinoa.

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mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012


jokes posted:

Why in the world is Ivalice supposed to be pronounced "Ee-va-lees" that is truly absurd to me.

No one is stopping you from pronouncing it however you want, let go of prescriptivism

TL
Jan 16, 2006

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world


Randallteal posted:

Not as bad as Tidus IMO. What other weird name pronunciations could the early FFs be hiding? I bet Rinoa is actually pronounced like quinoa.

I always said Zih-Dayne and not Zih-Dahn.

Kanfy
Jan 9, 2012

Just gotta keep walking down that road.


As a kid I just pronounced names the way they were written because that's how civilized languages work.

Kanfy fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Mar 19, 2019

alpha_destroy
Mar 22, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night


My friends and I must have been illiterate because FFT was our favorite game ever by chocobos were chickaboos and Delita was pronounced Dee-tail-ya to us. Like, to the point he is still Detaila in my brain.

Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010




The Great Twist

Me and two separate groups of friends playing the game independently thought Ramza's last name was belouve and not beoulve. It wasn't until an LP I saw recently started pronouncing his name all weird until I looked at it and saw how it was actually spelled.

I pronounce Ivalice wrong too but I will die on that hill.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008




Buglord

jokes posted:

Why in the world is Ivalice supposed to be pronounced "Ee-va-lees" that is truly absurd to me.

Because in most languages, i is usually pronounced like ee. English is weird.

alpha_destroy
Mar 22, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night


Orcs and Ostriches posted:

Me and two separate groups of friends playing the game independently thought Ramza's last name was belouve and not beoulve. It wasn't until an LP I saw recently started pronouncing his name all weird until I looked at it and saw how it was actually spelled.

I pronounce Ivalice wrong too but I will die on that hill.

Oh my god. You literally just taught me that. What the gently caress? How was I getting all the names wrong?

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE


Fister Roboto posted:

Because in most languages, i is usually pronounced like ee. English is weird.

Because of the Great Vowel Shift.

quote:

English has a weird vowel system because of the Great Vowel Shift, but for any other unfamiliar language your best option is to pronounce the vowels as in Spanish or Italian. This basically means to pronounce “i” like “ee” in see, “e” like “ay” in play, “a” like “a” in la, “o” like “o” in go, and “u” like “oo” in too.
https://slate.com/human-interest/20...a-linguist.html

quote:

Long vowels in Middle English had "continental" values, much like those in Italian and Standard German; in standard Modern English, they have entirely different pronunciations.[8] The differing pronunciations of English vowel letters do not stem from the Great Shift as such but from the fact that English spelling failed to be adapted to the changes. German had undergone vowel changes quite similar to the Great Shift in a slightly earlier period but the spelling was changed accordingly (e.g. Middle High German bīzen → modern German beiίen "to bite").
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift

Nibble
Dec 28, 2003

if we don't, remember me


alpha_destroy posted:

My friends and I must have been illiterate because FFT was our favorite game ever by chocobos were chickaboos and Delita was pronounced Dee-tail-ya to us. Like, to the point he is still Detaila in my brain.

As a kid I misread Returners in FF6 and pronounced it "Ret-runners". The first time I played it as an adult, I had no idea how I was so dumb earlier but suddenly the name made a lot more sense.

Also Ivalice seems fine to me. How else would you spell it? "Ev-" would be pronounced with a short e by everyone, and "Eev-" or "Eav-" look way worse.

Whalley
Mar 5, 2004



Randallteal posted:

Not as bad as Tidus IMO. What other weird name pronunciations could the early FFs be hiding? I bet Rinoa is actually pronounced like quinoa.

Reenwa, Squale, and Zeal are a lot of people's 'standard' teams but folks often misjudge the power behind Kweyestees and Selp Hi's limits, not to mention Eye Are Vinny's fun ammo system.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008




Buglord

Fun fact: Squall is short of Pasquall.

DeadButDelicious
Oct 11, 2012

Leave me to do my dark bidding on the internet!

My regular party was the Squall/Zell/Irvine sausage fest.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

BENIS


ulmont posted:

“e” like “ay” in play, “o” like “o” in go

Yeah nah don't make diphthongs out of vowels it's most likely to be all wrong TIA

Mega64
May 23, 2008





This is Final Fantasy, everything is wrong.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE


Jerry Cotton posted:

Yeah nah don't make diphthongs out of vowels it's most likely to be all wrong TIA

The author was trying to get the sound across to a lay audience. The relevant IPA is just /eː/, if you want to get technical.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

BENIS


ulmont posted:

The author was trying to get the sound across to a lay audience.

Well he did an absolute poo poo job at it and managed to spread disinformation instead of anything helpful so he should be smacked.

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 12, 2007

by Cyrano4747


I just did the train fight in 6 for the first time

Gaming peaked in 1996 or whatever, I suplexed a loving train

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




I also am playing through 6 (and 5) before XII drops on Switch. These are just really great games.

Whalley
Mar 5, 2004



BENGHAZI 2 posted:

I just did the train fight in 6 for the first time

Gaming peaked in 1996 or whatever, I suplexed a loving train

no argument here, every high level 'cool' moment in games since then has at best reached that level of cool, never bettered.

TheHoosier
Dec 30, 2004

The fuck, Graham?!



jokes posted:

I also am playing through 6 (and 5) before XII drops on Switch. These are just really great games.

5 owns hard. Fiesta time is only 2 and half months away!

S.J.
May 19, 2008

A storm is coming.


I've never played 4 or 5. Be honest with me, here, how good are they?

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

S.J. posted:

I've never played 4 or 5. Be honest with me, here, how good are they?

I think IV was very revolutionary at the time it was released, but now everything it does is pretty JRPG standard and done better, so I find it pretty dull. FFV was and continues to be an extremely well-crafted gameplay experience with crazy replay value (see the annual Final Fantasy Five Four Job Fiesta), and is very good. The game can be beaten with every job combination (and usually with no or minimal level grinding) due to the many tricks as your disposal, and yet can continue to feel challenging, which is a sign of Very Good Design.

Schwartzcough fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Mar 19, 2019

Nephzinho
Jan 24, 2008





Schwartzcough posted:

I think IV was very revolutionary at the time it was released, but now everything is does is pretty JRPG standard and done better, so I find it pretty dull. FFV is and continues to be an extremely well-crafted gameplay experience with crazy replay value (see the annual Final Fantasy Five Four Job Fiesta), and is very good. The game can be beaten with every job combination (and usually with no or minimal level grinding) due to the many tricks as your disposal, and yet can continue to feel challenging, which is a sign of Very Good Design.

I still love 4, but it is almost entirely linear and there isn't really any thing to do differently in any given play through. Simple but iconic story that has been done many times since.

5, I didn't love it as a game but the Fiesta really elevates it.

Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010




The Great Twist

4 is a textbook 90's era JRPG, and it wrote that book. It's got some issues, but it's still got gameplay and story that mostly holds up.

The job system is pretty awesome in 5, but despite multiple attempts on multiple releases I couldn't ever get into the game.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.


The main things that help 5 are that it plays very fast and while some classes are better than others there are no bad choices (aside from quad berserkers) and changing around is very easy. It's not one of those games where you need to start the game with endgame in mind (the downside of FF12Zodiac's jobs, which rears its head again every time you get a new summon or want to consider a quickening), or where everybody moves very slowly in hour-long basically-cutscenes and you need to get halfway through the game before you unlock the stuff that makes it interesting. After three fights you've got 3/4 of your party, get the 4th after the first cave which is maybe half a dozen fights, and then you have another half dozen fights and a boss before you start getting job options to play around with.

In general it's the game I've replayed the most thanks to the Fiesta so I don't know if I've just adjusted to it, but it seems wonderfully paced in that most things don't overstay their welcome (a couple of dungeons you need to walk back out of if you don't have warp) and in the beginning every time jobs start feeling a little old you get a new set of them to play with.

Nibble
Dec 28, 2003

if we don't, remember me


Orcs and Ostriches posted:

4 is a textbook 90's era JRPG, and it wrote that book. It's got some issues, but it's still got gameplay and story that mostly holds up.

The job system is pretty awesome in 5, but despite multiple attempts on multiple releases I couldn't ever get into the game.

Same on 5. As someone who loves theorycrafting job loadouts in games like FFT and FF12, I expected it to totally be my jam, but it just never managed to sink its hooks into me.

I played 4 for the first time a year or so ago, well after I played most other FF games. It struck me as an ideal introductory JRPG - easy to follow story, likeable characters, no complicated character progression systems to gently caress up. But that lack of customization also means that its replay value is very limited.

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!


The first really good final fantasy is honestly 6

TheHoosier
Dec 30, 2004

The fuck, Graham?!



S.J. posted:

I've never played 4 or 5. Be honest with me, here, how good are they?

So I just finished 4 and 9 together, and I agree with everyone that 4 is the seed from which Square's current good/bad habits grew. It's an epic game wtih a lot of iconic moments, but it's very self-indulgent and goes back to the well a bit too much. It vacilates between having too much padding and moving very quickly. The battle system is a proof of concept for 6, bred from the concepts in 3. I prefer the deep Job-based systems of V, Tactics, and X to some degree, but it's still fun to play. 4 is definitely worth playing and I'm glad I did.

Nephzinho
Jan 24, 2008





corn in the bible posted:

The first really good final fantasy is honestly 6

6-9 is the golden era.

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead


S.J. posted:

I've never played 4 or 5. Be honest with me, here, how good are they?
The first three games allow you to assign classes for your characters, while 4 makes them static, forcing each game to play out the same every time. The grind is also strong. Then you have 5 allowing you to pick classes for your characters and keeping each game fresh. 4 really feels like a one time play before you get bored, as there are better gameplay in other games.

Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010




The Great Twist

Due to 4's rigidity, I also think it has the strongest 'character development through gameplay mechanics' than the rest of the series. A lot of the details in 4 wouldn't work in something open like 1, or as flexible as 5.

spoilers, of course, for examples

Cecil's overcoming his darkness through defence and pacifism
Telah being a decrepit old sage, regaining his spell casting ability while being too frail to use it properly, and finally exerting himself to death in his quest for vengeance
Palom and Porum getting stoned
Rosa's entire class and basically the entirety of her development from her devotion to Cecil
None of these would work if their classes were substantially different.

It doesn't make something you're going to come back to, but it's still a game you can appreciate on its own merit, and then move on from.

Super No Vacancy
Jul 26, 2012

yahallo


iv is good

sponges
Sep 14, 2011



Mystic Quest is good

Mega64
May 23, 2008





They're all good

at being bad

romanowski
Nov 10, 2012



I'm playing 4 for the first time right now and I love it mostly because of the bad translation

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011


Orcs and Ostriches posted:

Due to 4's rigidity, I also think it has the strongest 'character development through gameplay mechanics' than the rest of the series.
I don't like 4 but this is 100 percent true. FF9 comes close with things like sword magic, Garnet's disc-3 issues, and the way it uses Trance, but it's not as big a focus for the game. 4 does it all the way up to the end with the Golbez/Fu-So-Ya battle against Zeromus.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




I think that 4, in my brain, is the first Final Fantasy because it's so by-the-book. It's funny how the job system that FF is sort of known for isn't prevalent in all their games. Only 2, 3, 5, 12 (but not at launch?), and 11/14. In all the other games, the job system is just reduced to a name next to each character and maybe a special attack option.

morallyobjected
Nov 3, 2012


jokes posted:

I think that 4, in my brain, is the first Final Fantasy because it's so by-the-book. It's funny how the job system that FF is sort of known for isn't prevalent in all their games. Only 2, 3, 5, 12 (but not at launch?), and 11/14. In all the other games, the job system is just reduced to a name next to each character and maybe a special attack option.

is FF known for having a job system? obviously some of the games do, but I'd think it's more known for the fantasy plots, random battles, summons, and general plot craziness.

you don't get to pick the jobs in 9, but they all clearly have them. 7 and 8 are the only ones I can think of where the characters are truly interchangeable, save for limits

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lobster22221
Jul 11, 2017


jokes posted:

I think that 4, in my brain, is the first Final Fantasy because it's so by-the-book. It's funny how the job system that FF is sort of known for isn't prevalent in all their games. Only 2, 3, 5, 12 (but not at launch?), and 11/14. In all the other games, the job system is just reduced to a name next to each character and maybe a special attack option.

two doesn't really have a job system does it? 1, 3, 5 11, 12(zodiac) 13(and sequels 13-2 and LR), and 14 do. Also tactics(original a1, and a2), x-2. 13+ games.

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