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Pesky Splinter posted:^^^ I think the magazine only ran the first chapter or something.
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May 17, 2012 22:13
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TurnipFritter posted:I think the magazine only ran the first chapter or something. drat, and I was hoping for more Bowie/Amano/Gaiman goodness.  [e]: Now them's fightin' words  VVV Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 22:25 on May 17, 2012 |
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May 17, 2012 22:14
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Am I alone in just not liking Amano's character designs? Like at all. I really like the guy's artwork and he's got a great style. But most of his actual character designs are like someone took a pastel, bead filled messy poo poo. Most of the old game's character designs probably benefited a ton from having his designs as a base for the more cartoony sprites and not direct translations. Even if Nomura is terrible and needs to get ejected from touching the series, I'm pretty glad Amano has been pretty well dropped outside logo art since his stuff would look awful in 3D. Even the Nomura filtered Dissidia renders of old characters look pretty godawful. I just don't get all the worshiping of his character designs.
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May 17, 2012 22:23
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Nohman posted:Am I alone in just not liking Amano's character designs? Like at all. I really like the guy's artwork and he's got a great style. But most of his actual character designs are like someone took a pastel, bead filled messy poo poo. Most of the old game's character designs probably benefited a ton from having his designs as a base for the more cartoony sprites and not direct translations. It seems that people who don't like Amano's stuff usually don't like his style- watercolors, flowy and wispy characters, etc. His actual designs aren't bad, and look like things that normal humans would wear, or at least would be functional. Whereas people who don't like Nomura's stuff don't like his designs- stupid hair, asymmetrical clothing, and using traditionally functional elements (zippers, belts, etc) in a purely decorative fashion. Nomura's style is pretty generic anime. This is why Amano's stuff feels more unique in defining the series- his work is almost instantly recognizable, whereas Nomura's stuff could be any of 100 anime artists' work with the stupid cranked to 11. Hell, Akira Toriyama's stuff is highly recognizable, and that's probably a huge contributing factor to the success of the Dragon Quest series.
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May 17, 2012 23:40
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Mrs. Badcrumble posted:I think the biggest problem with his designs is seeing them *animated* in 3D. Yes, I've seen the animated works based on his designs, but I still think it wouldn't look like a moving Amano painting unless you're one of those people who thinks that things like framing and composition aren't immensely loving important to Amano's art. Amano's 1 minute video for his manga Deva Zan is what his art looks like in 3D and it completely shits all over Nomura bigtime. Still Square's best artist.
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May 18, 2012 00:12
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You know what I'm just going to say it. While Amano may be a better artist. Nomura is a better character designer. His designs work better as video game characters, while pictures Amano's are very beautiful and interesting looking. They're not so great as pure character design. Good character design should tell you about a character just from looking at it. To use Cloud, probably the most famous character he's done, as an example.  You can quickly tell a lot about Cloud just from looking at him. He's a strong, serious guy. The blonde hair contrasts with the dark clothing and makes him stand out. Finally, Cloud has a very strong silhouette. A good character design should allow you to instantly identify the character just from seeing that.
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May 18, 2012 02:03
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Dr Pepper posted:You know what I'm just going to say it. While Amano may be a better artist. Nomura is a better character designer. Dude take another look at that tidus.  That is God-awful character design. Like, laughed-out-of-a-job-interview bad. Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 05:23 on May 18, 2012 |
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May 18, 2012 05:19
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Pesky Splinter posted:
No loving way. I actually said that out loud. pw pw pw posted:Dude take another look at that tidus. Don't make me bring up Amano art from the FF2 vaults again. Pesky Splinter posted:Not a game, but an upcoming movie. Holy gently caress I am geeking the gently caress out. Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 05:35 on May 18, 2012 |
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May 18, 2012 05:23
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pw pw pw posted:Dude take another look at that tidus. It reminds me of what Yahtzee said about War's design from Darksiders: Yahtzee posted:It looks like someone started drawing him and never loving stopped.
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May 18, 2012 05:36
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Pretty sure Nomura stopped right around his left pant leg.
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May 18, 2012 05:47
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Pesky Splinter posted:Even better is that Amano has artwork for the Thin White Duke himself. This looks like concept art for what would be the greatest Vampire game ever. Vampire: Bloodlines 2, Amano edition
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May 18, 2012 06:03
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I remember that I used to gave a Geocities site called geocities.com/ihatetifa. I was completely insane about how VII is the best game ever, and Tifa ruined it, and I don't even know but for some reason, I really hated her. I remember seeing a lot of goatse. However, despite my passion for the game, I managed to completely forget about the game/avoid all the fandom that came out after 1998, and never even heard about the other games/movies/whatever. Thankfully, due to avoiding all that, VII is still my favorite game. I think it's amazing, and the story is amazing. The music is so good that I imported it from Japan many, many, many years ago and blast it in my car regularly (Jenova's Theme  ). The only part I hate is having to level up at the end of the game in order to have a chance at killing Sephiroth. I distinctly remember spending a month getting my characters up to level 99 so that I could one-shot him.
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May 18, 2012 06:22
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JoeyJoJoJr Shabadoo posted:I remember that I used to gave a Geocities site called geocities.com/ihatetifa. I was completely insane about how VII is the best game ever, and Tifa ruined it, and I don't even know but for some reason, I really hated her. I remember seeing a lot of goatse. However, despite my passion for the game, I managed to completely forget about the game/avoid all the fandom that came out after 1998, and never even heard about the other games/movies/whatever. Jenova's music is odd, in that it actually is not improved by orchestral/rock renditions. The synth-heavy original fits the concept of the monster perfectly. Even though she's a complete ripoff of Lavos.  (Also, the only thing wrong with Tifa is that she gets a genuinely unsettling amount of perverted fanart)
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May 18, 2012 08:13
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Mazed posted:Jenova's music is odd, in that it actually is not improved by orchestral/rock renditions. Campy 60s superhero showtunes version disagrees with you 
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May 18, 2012 08:51
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The White Dragon posted:Campy 60s superhero showtunes version disagrees with you They did that with "Man with the Machine Gun" as well. And it's amazing. I cannot listen to this without picturing a cheesy voice-over introducing Laguna, Kiros, and Ward as they ham it up for the camera, followed by a bunch of action sequences with ludicrous over-acting and super-cheap special effects.
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May 18, 2012 10:30
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JoeyJoJoJr Shabadoo posted:I remember that I used to gave a Geocities site called geocities.com/ihatetifa. I was completely insane about how VII is the best game ever, and Tifa ruined it, and I don't even know but for some reason, I really hated her. I remember seeing a lot of goatse. However, despite my passion for the game, I managed to completely forget about the game/avoid all the fandom that came out after 1998, and never even heard about the other games/movies/whatever. I used to feel the same way about Aeris. I know it may sound silly now but when i first played FFVII I thought Aeris would be the female lead. I empathized more with Tifa due to being a lot like her in terms of personality and so I didn't take kindly to this over-aggressive hussy. I've outgrown it though. Also why everyone loves J-E-N-O-V-A I will always prefer Jenova Absolute. Shame it's not as popular.
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May 18, 2012 11:53
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JoeyJoJoJr Shabadoo posted:The only part I hate is having to level up at the end of the game in order to have a chance at killing Sephiroth. I distinctly remember spending a month getting my characters up to level 99 so that I could one-shot him. If I remember right, Sephiroth's HP is scaled to your level. I had about the same amount of trouble killing him at level 56 as I did at level 86. Apparently he becomes ridiculously tough to kill once all of your dudes are at level 99.
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May 18, 2012 15:42
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Dr Pepper posted:You know what I'm just going to say it. While Amano may be a better artist. Nomura is a better character designer. His designs work better as video game characters, while pictures Amano's are very beautiful and interesting looking. They're not so great as pure character design. Good character design should tell you about a character just from looking at it. Nomura's style fits better with early PS1 polygon blocky characters. I really liked the character images in FFVII, they were cartoony, but had a lot of character and were just plain good. (also by the way Amano designs all the characters, Nomura/other artists "reimagine" them in proper anime as I understand it). After VII the FF in game art started a Descent into Anime. It had reached a low at Seymour's awful hair and Tidus' pants-like apparatus in X, then XII almost started to dig out of it in a different direction, but XIII just rocketed back into the abyss.
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May 18, 2012 15:48
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p.crestmont posted:but XIII just rocketed back into the abyss. With the exception of Sazh and Fang
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May 18, 2012 15:51
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Apart from the hat, I think Snow's design is reasonable. Also I think black man with afro and chocobo in afro is pretty anime.
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May 18, 2012 15:55
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Mak0rz posted:With the exception of Sazh and Fang Lightning was cool too, though her outfit made no sense of course. But Hope, Snow, meaningless words like fal'Cie and Cie'th or whatever, and walking in a boring straight line were the reasons I could only make it through a few hours of play before trading it in. It just reeked of juvenile anime (and not the fun kind).
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May 18, 2012 16:05
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While we are on the topic of art, I took a picture of my old Versus Books FFVII guide poster last night for the FFVII LP Thread. Thought you guys might enjoy it as well. Bonus: Wild Arms 2 poster! Click for huge.
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May 18, 2012 16:09
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Man, I loved Versus Books. Blew Prima and Nintendo guides right out of the water.
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May 18, 2012 16:38
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p.crestmont posted:After VII the FF in game art started a Descent into Anime. It had reached a low at Seymour's awful hair and Tidus' pants-like apparatus in X, then XII almost started to dig out of it in a different direction, but XIII just rocketed back into the abyss. Wait, what? 13's art was actually pretty good. I can't think of anyone who's wearing something as outlandish and retarded as Tidus's outfit. Maybe Vanille and Fang, but even then there's a good reason they're dressed like that, and Fang kind of makes it work.
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May 18, 2012 16:56
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Artix74 posted:Wait, what? 13's art was actually pretty good. I can't think of anyone who's wearing something as outlandish and retarded as Tidus's outfit. Maybe Vanille and Fang, but even then there's a good reason they're dressed like that, and Fang kind of makes it work. It didn't go as deep as FFX and FFX-2, but it is headed back in that direction. I just recall FFXII having less belts, awful hair, and assymetrical costumes, and it seemed like a ray of hope.
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May 18, 2012 17:05
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p.crestmont posted:Lightning was cool too, though her outfit made no sense of course. But Hope, Snow, meaningless words like fal'Cie and Cie'th or whatever, and walking in a boring straight line were the reasons I could only make it through a few hours of play before trading it in. It just reeked of juvenile anime (and not the fun kind). By the end of the game I still didn't know the difference between a Fal'Cie, Ceith, and L'Cie or however the poo poo you spell those dumb words. I will admit, I had fun once I got to the Archylte Steppe, but that was twenty god drat hours into the game. The final dungeon where you're inside the Internet or whatever the gently caress it was is confusing as all hell too. Nothing in that game made any loving sense. Also I spent some time grinding turtles and to do it required Vanille's Eidolon and her unique move (Death). Having to watch/hear her moan every time her Eidolon knocked an Adamantoise down was unsettling as hell. XIII still had one of the catchiest tracks in the entire series though... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_li0VJisNk  Ragequit posted:While we are on the topic of art, I took a picture of my old Versus Books FFVII guide poster last night for the FFVII LP Thread. Thought you guys might enjoy it as well. Bonus: Wild Arms 2 poster! I was staring at this way too long before realizing that what I thought was a Link cameo was actually Aerith.
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May 18, 2012 17:17
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Ragequit posted:While we are on the topic of art, I took a picture of my old Versus Books FFVII guide poster last night for the FFVII LP Thread. Thought you guys might enjoy it as well. Bonus: Wild Arms 2 poster! I have that FF VII poster! Came from a great strategy guide, with some poor intel. (example, they said you could encounter Test 0. I think they were using a Japanese copy to write the guide.) Always wondered why Cid didn't make the cut for the poster!
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May 18, 2012 17:31
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p.crestmont posted:Nomura's style fits better with early PS1 polygon blocky characters. I really liked the character images in FFVII, they were cartoony, but had a lot of character and were just plain good. (also by the way Amano designs all the characters, Nomura/other artists "reimagine" them in proper anime as I understand it). FFVII is plenty "anime". In fact, it's more anime than FFVIII or IX's designs.
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May 18, 2012 17:37
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Mak0rz posted:By the end of the game I still didn't know the difference between a Fal'Cie, Ceith, and L'Cie or however the poo poo you spell those dumb words. Fal'Cie are giant machines that have brains(maybe) and they want to die but they can't because they have godlike powers(except for that time the party overpowered one easily and used it as a means of short-distance transportation) and that's about it. Hope that clears things up. Goddammit. Talk about a wasted concept. The fact I could never actually figure out the fal'Cie is the single greatest reason I hate the story in the game.
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May 18, 2012 17:39
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Always wondered why Cid didn't make the cut for the poster! Yet Cait Sith did  Feel like I'm flogging a dead horse here, but another thing I liked about VII's designs is that most of them seem perfectly logical. Cloud's outfit was a military uniform and it clearly looks like one. Aerith is just a flower girl from the slums, so a red vest over a pink dress works fine for her. Meanwhile, Barrett seems like the kind of guy that doesn't give a poo poo about fashion, so a brown vest and shorts works for him. Yuffie? Really aside from that dumb gauntlet thing and metal garter (  ) her outfit is probably the most normal of them all. Red and Cait Sith are non-human, which tend to be wildcards for designers. Cait Sith aside, I like that they didn't go overboard with the tribal poo poo on Red; just a modestly-ornamental head dress and a few tattoos and scars. Tifa, on the other hand, I feel is pure fanservice. Even so, her clothing looks perfectly normal.Of course, all characters have their dumb gauntlets and bangles and whatnot (like Aerith's metal sleeves, for example), but the designers still had to fill their anime quota somehow EDIT: I forgot about Cid and Vincent. Cid's a pilot, so a bomber jacket, goggles, leather gloves, and scarf is about as good an outfit as you can get for him. Vincent seems like your token goth emoboy and I don't really like him, so I can't really say much. Mak0rz fucked around with this message at 17:48 on May 18, 2012 |
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May 18, 2012 17:41
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Himuro posted:FFVII is plenty "anime". In fact, it's more anime than FFVIII or IX's designs. I guess I just think of VII as good anime, at least the real main characters. I don't know what the hell IX was; Vivi was cool and everything else was just wacky. I liked it though. I think the difference is VII and IX are more cartoonish, and come off as more fun than awkward and kind of embarrassing like VIII and X etc.
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May 18, 2012 17:51
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Mak0rz posted:Vincent seems like your token goth emoboy and I don't really like him, so I can't really say much. Like him or hate him, Vincent's character archetype is "Goth Vampire" and his design communicates that really well. I love FFVII's character design.
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May 18, 2012 17:53
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Question: when people complain about Nomura's character designs looking terrible, are they thinking of the actual characters or the costumes the characters are wearing? Because I agree with Dr. Pepper; Nomura's character designs are fine. It's his costume designs post-PS1 that are terrible.
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May 18, 2012 18:48
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The costumes are a big part of the character design, though; most of the characters in these games spend 90% of the time in the same outfit and good character designers often use a character's clothing to communicate something about their personality. For a simple example from Nomura's own work, look at the difference in Reno and Rude. They're technically wearing the same suit, but the way they wear it (and what they wear with it) characterizes them and makes the contrast between them obvious at a glance. Are you talking about the writing or something? Does he even have anything to do with that? Baku fucked around with this message at 18:56 on May 18, 2012 |
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May 18, 2012 18:51
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Zombies' Downfall posted:The costumes are a big part of the character design, though; most of the characters in these games spend 90% of the time in the same outfit and good character designers often use a character's clothing to communicate something about their personality. For a simple example from Nomura's own work, look at the difference in Reno and Rude. No, I mean the actual design of like the face, build, posture, hair, etc. Like Dr. Pepper was saying earlier, even though Tidus's outfit is horrible to look at, if you were to see the character in silhouette, you'd still be able to look at it and go, "Oh yeah, that's Tidus from FFX." Though in some cases, his hair designs are just as terrible as his costume designs. Case in point, Seymour.
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May 18, 2012 18:56
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Honestly, the character designs in XIII were all pretty decent. Fang and Sazh were the best, no doubt, but I did like Vanille's sort of faux-African tribal thing. Though the pigtails did diminish the effect a bit.
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May 18, 2012 18:57
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W.T. Fits posted:No, I mean the actual design of like the face, build, posture, hair, etc. Like Dr. Pepper was saying earlier, even though Tidus's outfit is horrible to look at, if you were to see the character in silhouette, you'd still be able to look at it and go, "Oh yeah, that's Tidus from FFX." A recognizable/unique character isn't necessarily indicative of a well-designed character.
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May 18, 2012 19:01
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And in defense of Amano as a character designer, I think a lot of the concept art for FF6 is pretty evocative of character. When the topic of character design came up in the last thread I made a post that I think was both pretty good and pretty goony illustrating how while Setzer and Sephiroth look similar in their Amano art, the artwork of them successfully conveys information about who and what they are. I used this picture of Setzer: I think it's really quite good, despite the weirdness going on with his feet (all of Amano's drawings have kinda weird feet). EDIT: VVV both of those seem to have similar inspiration and stuff, though; there's both a sort of modernity and a Jpop vibe to everything he designs, just stuff like FF10 and Kingdom Hearts are a little more wild/exaggerated/costumey and less practical. Like Tidus isn't really wearing a "fantasy" outfit; you could make something sort of like it with a hoodie and a pair of overalls. It just looks like something a crazy pop icon or Harajuku kid would wear instead of an American office worker. Baku fucked around with this message at 19:15 on May 18, 2012 |
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May 18, 2012 19:07
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Basically Nomura has two ways to design characters. There's his mostly "Modern day styles with an occasional twist" from TWEWY, FF7, and FF13 etc that most people seem to like. Then there's his "fantastic fantasy outfits" from FFX, Kingdom Hearts, etc that people don't like.
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May 18, 2012 19:10
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Zombies' Downfall posted:I think it's really quite good, despite the weirdness going on with his feet (all of Amano's drawings have kinda weird feet). In this particular case he's supposed to be facing back and to the left with his head/torso turned. Dr Pepper posted:Then there's his "fantastic fantasy outfits" from FFX, Kingdom Hearts, etc that people don't like. Wait, he did Kingdom Hearts too? What the hell is up with him and poofy shorts?
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May 18, 2012 19:11
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