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C-Euro posted:To start us off- I've heard it mention in a few places that oftentimes one's favorite Final Fantasy is the first one they ever played. How many of you are guilty of this? FF6 was the first one I played and it remains one of my favorite games of all time, so I've fallen into that trap. I think your favorite is likely to be one of the first you played, but I played FFI and IV before VI, which is my favorite. My second favorite is XII and my third is X, which are both quite a bit more recent. Many people cite IX as their favorite, but many of them like the fact that it is a throw back to the earlier generation of games. You wouldn't appreciate that fact if it was your first game, however.
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May 13, 2012 18:38
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The White Dragon posted:Nothing of importance or even interest happens. However, you do get a new SUPER BONUS CLASSIC FINAL FANTASY MONSTER in your party! Everyone is still dead. Remember to buy Final Fantasy 13-3!!!!! FFXIII-2 can only be said to be better than FFXIII because the latter was so atrocious. Both are just so awful. I don't know who I'm mad at more, Nomura for driving my favorite series into the ground in his quest to take the RPG out of Final Fantasy (!!) or myself for buying the second game, knowing what I did about the first.
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May 15, 2012 21:13
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Azure_Horizon posted:The game plays itself? So Noel and Serah just do things without you pressing any buttons? drat, when did we get an FF12-2? Yeah, I actually really dislike it when people level that complaint at 13/13-2, because there are already plenty of things to dislike about the game. "The game plays itself, derp" is not really one of them. PhilippAchtel fucked around with this message at 21:25 on May 15, 2012 |
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May 15, 2012 21:22
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Pesky Splinter posted:As Azure Horizon said, it's not FFXII, where you can practically set it up to play itself. To be fair, "you can set it up to play itself" isn't quite the same as "it plays itself" in any case. The gameplay of FFXII is setting up gambits to match the situations you are facing. My only complaint as far as that goes is that FFXII doesn't give you enough gambits to play the game properly until well into the game.
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May 15, 2012 21:47
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ImpAtom posted:Uh. Nomura? Why are you blaming Nomura for FFXIII? He did some character designs for it and literally nothing else. Why is he getting the blame for it? I must be mixing up Nomura with Toriyama.
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May 16, 2012 05:00
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RagnarokAngel posted:The problem is after that his existence sorta ceases to be meaningful. His purpose is fulfilled so he moves to the background. I think FFVI definitely has major (Terra, Celes, Locke, Edgar, Sabin, Setzer) and minor (Gau, Cyan, Shadow, Relm, Strago, etc.) characters, but I don't think that's a strike against the game. On the contrary, if the game tried to give every character an equal share of the main story, it would feel unfocused. None the less, each character's arc does flow into the WoB story of struggle against the Empire and the WoR story of humanity and interpersonal bonds. Do people move to the background after you recruit them in the WoR? Yes, but that's because once you've recruited them, their portion of the WoR story is done until everyone confronts Kefka at the end. When you're descending into the Phoenix Cave to find Locke, it isn't about Edgar or Setzer or even Celes. It's about Locke. Each character, with the exception of the very minor characters (Mog, Umaro, Gogo) has their own thing like that. Personally, I think it works really well.
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May 25, 2012 18:36
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RagnarokAngel posted:I already felt like FF6 becomes unfocused in WoR because Kefka ceases to do anything. I realize this is a problem in pretty much any video game, especially rpgs that have an end game before a point of no return, but for all the talk that players love Kefka because he's a more active villain who actually "succeeds" at least at first, he becomes pretty complacent in the second half. Occasionally having him interfere might have helped. Just to pick out this one part, I felt that Kefka's absentee villainy in the second half (his "light of judgement" or whatever, excepted) really paid off during the final scenes where he more or less admits that ultimate power is boring. Once he wipes out the party, he will have achieved his final triumph, and then what is there left for him? At that point, the only thing left is to erase the world. If you look at it this way, it would be out of character for Kefka to interfere in the way ExDeath or Golbez took a direct hand in affairs. After all, he thinks he's already won. As for your point about unique dialogue, I do understand where you're coming from. There is maybe some room for that, but I wouldn't want it to come on so strongly that it overpowers that each quest is really about the person you are finding.
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May 25, 2012 22:33
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CharismaticHorsey posted:I've seen some bad journalism in my day, but it astounds me just how terrible internet article can be at times. quote:Yes, the Mass Effect fanbase is overall not very good. In fact it’s bad. How can you argue with writing like that?
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May 29, 2012 18:09
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Eggie posted:I think one or two years ago, I did a "power playthrough" of FFXII. The idea of this power playthrough is to level up Vaan early and reap awesome equipment. One of the steps in this power playthrough is to farm Werewolves for Kotetsus, and if I remember correctly, you kill the two Werewolves, walk to screens east (without touching the save point), return and kill them again. Eventually your chain level will increase and the chances of them dropping Kotetsus will increase too. I've done that as well. It seems like a grind at first, but ends up saving you a lot of time. IIRC, I 100%-ed the game in about 30 hours.
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Jun 5, 2012 20:54
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For a game with so much potential, they really drove this into the ground. I remember being so excited when I made my character at launch in North America... Don't forget all the "JP-ONLY" parties that were going around. The game tried to bridge the gap with preset phrases, but it just never worked. And on top of all that, I never felt like I was exploring a world (such an important part of any FF game) because any strategy other than "Find a good spot and camp" was certain to lead to death. People like to poke fun at World of Warcraft, but that game was such a breath of fresh air. Instances meant no more squabbling over camping rights. Dungeons were designed with the idea that your party would work your way through them. The starting cities were easily accessible from the others. The PvP was exciting and interesting. I wasn't even a big fan of Warcraft or its world, but I dropped FFXI as soon as I saw the potential of that game.
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Jun 11, 2012 19:17
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Gammatron 64 posted:I think what they both have in common is an incredible amount of immersion, the likes of which are very rarely ever seen. I think that's why both games had very passionate fanbases. When talking to FFXI, the common link seems to be that it feels like Vana'diel feels like a real, living breathing world, and playing the game is almost like experiencing a whole alternate lifetime as someone else on an alien world. So if you ever wonder how some people could get so addicted to such a brutal game with a very boring grind, that's probably how. Players would always complain about the dev's idiotic design decisions, but nobody can deny how well done Vana'diel itself was. Perhaps it was done a little too well... the dangerous thing about FFXI is that I think a lot of players subconsciously forgot they were playing a game. If you ever got really into it, I guess you know what it's like to be in the Matrix. I don't doubt your conviction, but in my mind "boring grind" and "immersion" do not tend to go together. I couldn't help but be very aware that I was playing a game the entire time I played FFXI, and this very fact cut deep into any notion of immersion for me. There were so many things that ran against immersion - cost of airship tickets, grind for second class, grind for extra class, constant tells for groups, constant tells for revival, etc. - that I'm genuinely surprised people describe the game as immersive.
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Jun 11, 2012 23:01
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quote:@PhilippAchtel has successfully pre-registered for #FFV4JF2012! Oh my god, what have I done... Azure_Horizon posted:People made the same argument for FFXIII and it didn't seem to convince anyone. Both make it a lot more difficult to manually control than just using what the system provides. Unfortunately, XII can be tuned to where you don't have to press anything, whereas XIII at least requires Paradigm Shifting all the time. As I said before, "can be tuned" is a far cry from "is". The gameplay of FFXII is tuning your characters and gambits to fit the situation. And, yes, it is similar to FFXIII in that both attempt to kick things up to a kind of meta level, but they do so in different ways. One asks you to choose the correct roles for the given situation and let the CPU work out the details, and the other asks you to invent your own roles and anticipate situations that might arise. They are both interesting gameplay options to be sure. The stories, however... Artix74 posted:How could you possibly automate paradigm shifting? And furthermore, what would be the point? You'd almost need to set up a Gambit-like system, at which point you might as well be playing FF12 instead. Quite simply, you could make "auto-battle" happen on a loop. And why not? 95% of the gameplay in FFXIII is choosing the right roles at the right time. Playing manually by inputting commands is useful in certain circumstances, but not in the vast majority of situations. PhilippAchtel fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Jun 14, 2012 |
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Jun 14, 2012 02:07
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Artix74 posted:Auto-battle has nothing to do with paradigm shifting, though? Autobattle is the game picking from a the list of available commands; Paradigm shifting is you telling the game which list it's allowed to pick from. You could (arguably should) automate the former. You can't possibly automate the latter without going into crazy gambit setups. The former is precisely what I mean (i.e. permanent autobattle). I might have misinterpreted the previous poster, but that's what I thought they meant as well. Letting the CPU take over paradigm shifting for you would obviously wipe out all the gameplay.
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Jun 14, 2012 18:06
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Reading about all these runs makes me wish I had scheduled myself off today. Oh well, we'll start things when I get home. What job will I get for Wind, I wonder?
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Jun 16, 2012 18:06
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quote:@PhilippAchtel can now use the Wind Job 'Thief'. No passage will remain hidden! Time to steal all the things I suppose.
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Jun 17, 2012 01:08
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Well, I ended up with Thief/Red Mage/Ninja/Chemist, so I shouldn't have any problems. I've never used Chemists before, though, as I really abhor any instances of "Guide Dang It" (warning: TvTropes). Why couldn't the abilities simply be spells that burn through your items like MP? I know there are multiple sets of reagents that cause the same effect, but I really feel like there is a better solution here. None the less, my Chemist is my only source of many buffs, so I've done my research. Strangely enough, my Chemist with the Dancing Dagger and Lamia Tiara is now my main source of physical damage. I'll probably look into moving Chemist over to my Ninja, once he learns Dual-Wield. In any case, I'm very comfortable with my team now, and don't anticipate any problems all the way to the end.
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Jun 19, 2012 18:08
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BlitzBlast posted:If that's all you're using your Chemist for, you really don't get this game.  I guess you missed the part where I said this is the first time I've used the class? And I have to wonder what the point of the posturing is, but this is the internet, after all. In any case, I've looked up the offensive Mix combinations, but haven't had chance to see their full effect. Looking forward to that.
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Jun 19, 2012 19:38
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So what are some of the better mixes? Phoenix down + dragon fang = reflect and lots of defense. That helped me greatly against the four crystals. I tried boosting my level but didn't notice much of a difference. Drinking to double hp was helpful though.
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Jun 21, 2012 21:43
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     Finally done! Not the hardest combination of jobs, I'm sure, but I forgot how frustrating some of the final bosses could be.
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Jul 2, 2012 23:05
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Tempo 119 posted:That's... really not true at all. Yeah, I think there's a balance to be had. The problem is that a game like FFXIII over and over violates one of the most basic principles of storytelling: "Don't tell me, show me." Pesky Splinter posted:I'd love a sequel to IX, though...it probably would be terrible. Not only that, sometimes a story is just finished, and there really is nothing more worth saying about that world. A sequel for its own sake tends to be horrible.
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Jul 6, 2012 18:10
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ImpAtom posted:(These are, of course, a bunch of traits taken out of context and the execution is important to determining the effectiveness, not just the traits listed.) Exactly. Terra's feelings of indecision and lack of confidence make perfect sense given her background, and I think all the reasons why have been spelled out in the previous few posts. Not everyone knows what they want in life, even into adulthood. Terra was stolen as a baby and raised to be a weapon. She never had a family to teach her about love, and it's a wonder she isn't more screwed up than she is (compare her to Gau in this respect). In fact, Celes and Terra are very similar in this regard, and the way Terra/World of Balance dovetails with Celes/World of Ruin is meant to underline this fact. As has been said earlier in this thread, FF6 is about how important human relationships are, and every character's story - even the villain's - connects with that theme in some manner.
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Jul 27, 2012 18:30
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ImpAtom posted:It does a poor job of combining mechanics and gameplay. There's a very poor separation between magic and notmagic. Sabin can do crazy laser poo poo and summon fire and Gau can use literal magic but those don't count as magic for "plot purposes" despite the ability to use magic being a major important plot point. It always bothered me as a kid that Celes only could Runic standard-named spells and not stuff like Magitek Laser and so on. And you're right. For a story that puts so much emphasis on Terra being able to use M- M- M- MAGIC!?, it handwaves a lot of magic-like things that everyone else does.
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Sep 28, 2012 18:54
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Bear Sleuth posted:I feel the same way about Lightning's "We are pets" moment. It had been built up as this completely horrible FFX Laughing Scene akin part and when it happened it was a believable reaction with decent voice acting. "We are pets" didn't bother me at all. It made a lot of sense in the context of the dialogue. "Moms are tough" was different. The opening part of the game really treated the concept of rebellion very flippantly. Are we really supposed to believe that the prettyboy teenagers that made up NORA were going to lead an armed resistance against Cocoon's military? It was all like one big joke.
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Oct 1, 2012 15:38
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Spoony bard would only be as bad as Moms Are Tough if the next scene he transformed into a fork that looked vaguely like Britney Spears "Spoony bard" is a bad line. I'll be the first to admit that. It's funny because it's so bad, and nostalgia has made it so bad it's good. That still doesn't make "Moms are tough" a good line. Maybe in fifteen years, I'll look back fondly, but I doubt it.  "Son of a submariner" and "There's sand on my boots" are obviously jokes made by a literal clown villain while funny music is playing, so I'm not sure where the comparison there would be.
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Oct 1, 2012 17:11
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Suaimhneas posted:It's only a bad line if you don't know that spoony is a real word, albeit a pretty old-fashioned one. Tellah's an old dude, I think he can be forgiven some archaic language. Haha, well I suppose that is one way to look at it. FWIW, I did know that "spoony" was a word. The fact that the word draws so much attention - precisely because it is so uncommon - detracts from what is supposed to be a very emotionally charged scene though. People look back on that scene as kind of funny because of the word choice, but it really wasn't supposed to be. I think there's certainly parallels to be drawn between that and "Moms are tough". edit: beaten
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Oct 1, 2012 19:50
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I've been playing through an FF6 mod called "Brave New World". The designers' goal was to rebalance and tweak the characters to make them a bit more distinctive. Certain espers can only be equipped by certain characters, dual-wielding is the property of the weapon type, not the relic, and most of the glitches from the SNES game (such as Evade %) have been fixed. Lots of other improvements such as faster Bushido times and a reworked equipment list have been added as well. It's been a very pleasurable mod to play through, and I'm sure some of the people in this thread would be interested. There's a discussion going on over at the GameFAQs boards (moved due to  concerns I suppose), and one of the authors has said I can give out the email to those interested.Send a mail to btb@action52.com if you're interested, or feel free to reply here or pm me if you have any questions about the mod.
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Oct 1, 2012 20:16
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Ross posted:I was just thinking that a lot of the cast of FF4 appear to die (Tellah, Palom, Porom, Cid, Yang) but Tellah is the only one who stays dead. Probably the most disappointing part about FF4's plot. Almost all the sacrifices the party goes through are magically erased by the end.
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Oct 3, 2012 00:49
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Azure_Horizon posted:The Fal'cie are rulers in the sense that they are more akin to demigods of Pulse and Cocoon rather than their true rulers. And all of that is an interesting set up to what have could have been a very compelling story. Unfortunately, most of the main characters are entirely too shallow to hold up a story of that complexity, and FFXIII-2 went entirely off the rails. If the FFXIII project had a good editor to keep everything focused and a more talented writing staff driving the story rather than a series of visuals, it might have turned out pretty great. S-E at this point simply refuses to cut their losses. They are married to this FFXIII concept, but their writing staff simply is not up to the task.
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Oct 17, 2012 19:28
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The White Dragon posted:I can, speaking anecdotally. I loving hate anime and all that grabagey doe-eye poo poo with all its sweatdrops, gratuitous child sexualization, et cetera. Exactly. The Akihabara man-child crowd has turned anime into a disgusting collection of oversexualized children and shallow pretentious tropes. There was some truly great anime in the 80s and 90s, but the market has shifted, and anime that isn't just thinly-veiled boobs and moe or yet another introduction to 19th century German philosophy is very, very rare. This attitude has heavily infected JRPGs of the past decade or so, which is just too bad.
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Oct 17, 2012 19:47
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Thundercracker posted:Compare that to XIII... I think the last time FF did that right was X. X has the best party dynamic of any of the games in the series. Each character has an important role to play in both the story and in battle. They all have their own compelling back story, and each works to drive the story forward in their own way. X really has an organic feeling that grows out of the differences and perspectives of each of the main seven. Brilliant game, and it surprises me how far XIII misses the mark given how inspired it was by X.
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Oct 17, 2012 20:09
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Krad posted:Lulu and Blue XIII were completely worthless, storywise. They were only there to appease the teenage boys demographic... and furries I guess. Lulu's past pilgrimages are key context as you get closer to Zanarkand. Her relationship to Chappu, Wakka, and Yuna, and the one she develops with Rikku are anything but worthless. I will grant that Kimahri has least compelling role in the story. His position in the Sphere Grid is even smack in the center, showing that they either intended for him to play a kind of fill in the blank role or weren't quite sure what to do with him. Still, he and Auron bridge the gap between Braska and Yuna. Azure_Horizon posted:Definitely disagree. IX has a helluva lot more humor between many characters in the party, reinforced by ATEs when you get to new areas. Not only is the dialogue ten million times better, but the characters grow and change slowly but surely as you watch them interact with each other. The FFX story is definitely about Spira first. But that doesn't mean that the characters don't talk about things tangentially related to the main story. Yuna and Tidus talk about their fathers, there's the Chappu arc, Wakka dealing with losing his faith and coming to accept the Al Bhed, Rikku and her fear of lightning and how the other guardians react, and so on. Yes, these things are related to the general thrust of the story, but I don't see how that's a bad thing. FFX has a tight narrative, and that's a good thing.
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Oct 17, 2012 21:34
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ImpAtom posted:Well, I don't blame you for thinking 90% of it is poo poo because 90% of it is poo poo. Probably more than 90% of it. The stuff that is popular is almost universally poo poo. It's just that it's like any other country's media output. There's a lot of stupid poo poo which should be rightfully ignored and very rarely there's something actually worth looking at. Well, I want to repeat this, because this is not so far away from what I'm saying. People are being pedantic about this by trying to make the dispute about how "Anime is just a term for Japanese cartoons. You can't generalize." Well, if you can't do that, you can't say "90% of it is poo poo" either, which is closer to what I'm saying and I imagine what White Dragon is getting at. "Hollywood movie" is a broad term too, but if someone thinks you can't say things about them in general, I'd have to wonder if they are discussing in good faith. 90% of any mass-marketed entertainment is poo poo. That's a general rule no matter what country it's from. In this particular case, though, it's poo poo for the reasons above, and it's popularity bleeds over into Japanese games, which is unfortunate because it makes them poo poo for the same reason. Some poo poo I can overlook. Moe moe bullshit (she's really 18, we promise!) and pretentious philosophical nonsense are not some of those things. But I think that's about as far as we can go with this subject.
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Oct 18, 2012 00:59
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Overbite posted:I don't know why. Lightning is one of the most boring FF protagonists in the series. It's like if we got a ton of FF8 spinoffs staring Squall. I can't think of a single interesting thing about Lightning aside from her navel ring. It doesn't seem like something she would be into. Square Soft putting style and art direction above substance and story? Why I never! 
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Jul 5, 2013 14:06
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gently caress me, can we shoot the FFXIII writers already? I'm so sick of how this story has hijacked the entire franchise.
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Jul 5, 2013 14:36
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A lot of your complaints about the role of Vaan and Ashe have to do with how the story was essentially rewritten halfway through to add a more approachable user controlled character. Vaan isn't the protagonist; he doesn't drive the story forward, and really other than as a narrative device, he could be totally removed and the story would still stand on its own. As a video game character, he's the "main" one in the sense that he's the guy you control (though really only in certain contexts), but from a story perspective, he's merely a device used to tell the story. This is Ashe's story, and Vaan the vehicle by which we get to experience it. The analogy of Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson is spot on. Now, FFX is another matter. Tidus is not nearly as passive as Vaan. He fills some of the same roles, but he also makes decisions, and in a big big way is the one who pushes Yuna to reject her fate, the act that makes FFX have a story at all. FFX is Tidus and Yuna's story. To say that FFXII is Ashe and Vaan's story would just be ridiculous. Even wording it that way shows how silly that argument is.
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Jul 6, 2013 01:55
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SSNeoman posted:Post retcon? It goes something like this: When you put it like that, it makes perfect sense. No, it doesn't.
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Jul 19, 2013 13:44
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Azure_Horizon posted:Barthandelus and Cid had been talking about Etro and Etro's Gate the entire time. Their entire point of murdering a ton of people to open her Gate is the entire point of XIII. It's just at the cost of doing so, Etro intervened instead and hosed up more poo poo, resulting in XIII-2. They assumed it would help them awaken Bhunivelze (and, according to Lightning Returns, it actually did... just not for another 500 years). If it's so spelled out and obvious, why do so many players find the plot so confusing? What's more likely: You're one of the few smart people who gets it while almost everyone else is lazy and/or stupid, or that plot is horrible and/or horribly presented? And even if what you say is true, and the plot is right there for anyone interested to read and understand (nevermind that the important bits are hidden away in a datalog), that doesn't make it a good story. It just means the writers couldn't think of a good way to end their meandering mess, and so inserted some "foreshadowing" earlier in the game to make their sharp left turn seem more legitimate. The fact that FFXIII-2 goes completely off the rails should hint that perhaps the second option is indeed the correct one.
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Jul 19, 2013 13:56
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Dr Pepper posted:Yeahhh that's so stupid I've just lost any interest in it. It's fine. You should give it a chance. Don't let a few personal flourishes in the dialog keep you from enjoying what I think is the best FFVI mod out there.
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Jul 20, 2013 01:48
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Austrian mook posted:I just went through this with the X vs. XIII de-rail and I don't want to do this again, but I completely disagree. I can't stand Rikku or Yuna in that game, the fan service is painful and I like Tidus as a character, I really, really do. That's all I care to say because Im heading to Seattle tomorrow and I need to sleep. I'm with you. X may not be the best of the series, but it is no question Tier I. The idea that X had a simple battle system that could be beaten by mashing the x button is beyond absurd. X put the time actions took front and center. Other games had bigger spells/techniques take more time, but X made it obvious how using this or that action affected the queue, and really made you think about balancing cost and benefits when it came to time. It still stands as the absolute best incarnation of the ATB system Square has developed. The sphere grid is still the best leveling system Square has ever developed. Every character has a certain function, reinforced by their section of the grid. But to say that the leveling is linear shows a total lack of understanding of how the grid works. There are locks that can be opened to move one character into another character's territory. There are special spheres that allow you to learn any other ability an ally knows. There are spheres that warp any character to any other character. There is tons and tons of variety. Want a Rikku that can cast black magic early? Play some blitzball and win a teleport sphere. And so on and so on. And yet at the end of the game, when you just want to kick rear end, you can teach every character every ability. The plot, themes, and world were outstanding. The music was memorable and moving. The characters all had a part to play, histories and biases that fleshed out the world. It was just a great game. There were certainly problems with it. The minigames, with the exception of blitzball, were just god awful. Making the player swap in every character so everyone gets XP is tedious. X-2 was also a good game, but not as good as X. It definitely has one of the best incarnations of the job system. The changes they make to Yuna are... okay, and mostly believable. I didn't like the sexual elements of the story. I would have preferred if the leaders of the factions has some presence in the original game. Oh, and the "best" ending should have been cut, even though I understand that many players wouldn't have felt they really won without it. But anyway, both of these games are miles ahead of XIII in terms of almost every category I can think of, except maybe *action* and *FMV  ness*
PhilippAchtel fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 20:00
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Ah, see, I'd argue that having Tidus die works for the plot, because he was the character most insistent upon not having sacrifice, not having people die--he's childish the whole story, and over the course of the pilgrimage he discards his childish aspects one by one. His ultimate acceptance of adulthood and responsibility lies in his silent, willing acceptance of his inevitable sacrifice. More importantly, it strikes a dramatic irony towards the theme of martyrdom, since the obvious martyr lives while the natural savior does not. That dramatic irony helps cement that the "cycle of death" still exists in Spira, even if Sin is gone, and there's a bunch of other kind of obvious bits of symbolism you could draw if you really wanted to. I've never quite been able to put into words why I thought that aspect of X's ending made sense, so I wanted to say I really appreciate you putting it so eloquently. PhilippAchtel fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 20:06
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