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Kylaer posted:There were tons of variations on the concept of the mace, with round heads, or flanged, or spiked, but yeah, the "mace on a chain" is probably fantasy. Threshing flails were a real peasant tool and undoubtedly got used to bash heads in once in a while, much like you can chop someone with an axe meant for cutting trees, but that's different than a dedicated weapon design.
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Jun 2, 2020 21:49
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God drat that's a fine-looking road. 
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Jun 2, 2020 23:16
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Egyptologist gives hypothetical how-to on pulling down an Obelisk that may/ may not be a racist symbol in Birmingham, AL. https://imgur.com/gallery/DOJzbhc And not just anyone either..
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Jun 3, 2020 01:42
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Dalael posted:Egyptologist gives hypothetical how-to on pulling down an Obelisk that may/ may not be a racist symbol in Birmingham, AL. https://imgur.com/gallery/DOJzbhc The obelisk is already gone. Turns out a boom crane works pretty well, too. 
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Jun 3, 2020 01:51
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Yeah, the mayor asked protesters to leave the monument for 24 hours while they made preparations and then they would take it down. And they did.
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Jun 3, 2020 08:10
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Fly Molo posted:God drat that's a fine-looking road. A True Roman Road for True Romans.
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Jun 3, 2020 08:32
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Nessus posted:The kusarigama actually saw military use, apparently, although I assume it was probably a skirmisher kind of weapon. You're accurate that it's more like a weighted chain attached to a sickle, with the general idea being that you tangle up the guy and then you kill him with the sickle (or I guess he could surrender). I imagine your biggest obstacle is that once you get one guy you have to untangle the chain from his carcass, so it would be a reasonably efficient "gently caress up one drunk samurai" weapon but would be hard to scale. If you have successfully killed one opponent... good! You've done your job and are already batting above average.
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Jun 3, 2020 08:33
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There's still Iaido schools that have kusarigama kata: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXesoopsWGE&t=16s
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Jun 3, 2020 08:41
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The Lone Badger posted:If you have successfully killed one opponent... good! You've done your job and are already batting above average.  I imagine the kusarigama was also not easy to learn how to use. You could put an eye out with that thing. e: watching these videos and assuming it's not totally ritualized, it seems you also get the issue of, you have invented an awesome 1v1 weapon against swords... but can it do anything else? Nessus fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Jun 3, 2020 |
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Jun 3, 2020 09:37
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Seems really situational.
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Jun 3, 2020 09:49
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My favorite old Japanese weapon is the sasumata. Cops here still use an updated version. 
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Jun 3, 2020 10:39
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The cops in my old hometown in California had the option to carry nunchucks instead of a baton. Even got a free demo of how it worked on me.
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Jun 3, 2020 10:47
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Stringent posted:My favorite old Japanese weapon is the sasumata. Cops here still use an updated version. The Indian Urumi is neat  quote:The urumi hasn’t regularly been used as an actual weapon for generations, but even as a demonstration weapon, it is still incredibly dangerous. Especially to the user. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/indias-deadly-flexible-whip-sword-takes-years-to-master And there's the Rope Dart too, as featured in kung fu movies and cool Burning Man Videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4zB86qNsHI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElMET8oSyAU I see claims for historical antecedents for the rope dart but yeah I'm a little suspicious, still neat tho
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Jun 3, 2020 13:02
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I've always been kinda fond of the hunga munga myself. It's like the smith was told "this is for hurting people. Make that very clear." and given no other guidance about what to make.
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Jun 3, 2020 13:33
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Lots of weapons like the kusurikama are similar to pole arms in that their history isn't "I designed a weapon" as much as "I figured out how to fight ok with this poo poo I had laying around already". The kusurikama is a grain scythe with a rope or chain and a weight. That's not far removed from putting a steak knife on the end of a broomstick to make a spear.
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Jun 3, 2020 15:44
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CommonShore posted:Lots of weapons like the kusurikama are similar to pole arms in that their history isn't "I designed a weapon" as much as "I figured out how to fight ok with this poo poo I had laying around already". Ahh you will meet your doom at the tip of my ChickenTendySweeper.
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Jun 3, 2020 15:46
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Putting someone off-balance with a thrown weapon right before you lunge in for the kill isn't so far removed from the role of a pilum or a throwing axe, I'm more surprised more people haven't tried using thrown nets and chains as a fighting doctrine. I suppose it's only really useful in impromptu skirmishes, not useful for large formations.
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Jun 4, 2020 05:15
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Phobophilia posted:Putting someone off-balance with a thrown weapon right before you lunge in for the kill isn't so far removed from the role of a pilum or a throwing axe, I'm more surprised more people haven't tried using thrown nets and chains as a fighting doctrine. I suppose it's only really useful in impromptu skirmishes, not useful for large formations.
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Jun 4, 2020 06:12
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Nessus posted:Nets and chains were probably pretty hard to make for something that would be ultimately disposable (cuz you'd probably lose it). They were also unwieldy for formations, just looking at them. Weren't retarius gladiators supposed to be based on something or other, though? Maybe it was one of those things where they'd have some skirmishers with that kind of gear but it was never like, core. Retiarii were kind of unique in that they were based on fisherman as opposed to a nationality or extant fighting style: the pairing of a trident along with the net is pretty specific to gladiators. They were originally paired up with murmillos which had kind of fish shaped helmets, to go along with the theme. Eventually, the murmillos set against retiarii evolved into the secutor, who had a much more bare helmet but less vision and ventilation. Apparently the big "fins" on the murmillo helmet were too easy to get caught in the net and making the retiarius' job harder was considered a plus. The Romans also saw the retiarii as effeminate and bad and they were basically the designated "heel" in the pairing.
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Jun 4, 2020 06:33
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Spear puncture wounds probably more dangerous than slash wounds.
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Jun 4, 2020 09:12
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LingcodKilla posted:Spear puncture wounds probably more dangerous than slash wounds.
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Jun 4, 2020 09:21
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True but I thought the point of gladiators was to have your investment live to fight another day. The suturing of a slash wound is fairly simple compared to deep punctures. I’m not even sure the tridents would be barbed. Just seems like a ridiculous risk if they aren’t actually trying to kill each other.
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Jun 4, 2020 09:24
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FishFood posted:Retiarii were kind of unique in that they were based on fisherman as opposed to a nationality or extant fighting style: the pairing of a trident along with the net is pretty specific to gladiators. They were originally paired up with murmillos which had kind of fish shaped helmets, to go along with the theme. Eventually, the murmillos set against retiarii evolved into the secutor, who had a much more bare helmet but less vision and ventilation. Apparently the big "fins" on the murmillo helmet were too easy to get caught in the net and making the retiarius' job harder was considered a plus. Would a gladiator play the same role for their entire career, or would they switch around depending on what their owner/patron needed?
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Jun 4, 2020 10:02
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If I were taking a Latin class today, would there be an agreed-upon pronunciation of the ii at the end of something like Julii? I've heard that word in particular pronounced as both "julie" and "julie-eye."
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Jun 4, 2020 12:06
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Communist Walrus posted:If I were taking a Latin class today, would there be an agreed-upon pronunciation of the ii at the end of something like Julii? I've heard that word in particular pronounced as both "julie" and "julie-eye." In Classical Latin usage, it would have been two syllables, the first i short (as in “sit”) and the second long (as in “machine”): more like “yuli-eeh”.
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Jun 4, 2020 12:34
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The Lone Badger posted:Would a gladiator play the same role for their entire career, or would they switch around depending on what their owner/patron needed? I like to think it was like the modern WWE, complete with story arcs, script writers, and after-action interviews.
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Jun 4, 2020 16:39
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I don't know of any evidence about scripting or storylines (though there was certainly at least some match fixing going on), but pro wrestling is probably the best modern analogue to gladiators. The historical recreations where gladiators would kill a bunch of prisoners were a real thing, so it wouldn't be a stretch to think they might have had story elements in gladiator fights.
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Jun 4, 2020 16:45
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Grand Fromage posted:I don't know of any evidence about scripting or storylines (though there was certainly at least some match fixing going on), but pro wrestling is probably the best modern analogue to gladiators. The romans probably cared more about the wellbeing of the gladiators than the WWF cares about the wellbeing of their wrestlers though. The Lone Badger posted:Would a gladiator play the same role for their entire career, or would they switch around depending on what their owner/patron needed? Alhazred fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jun 4, 2020 |
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Jun 4, 2020 18:17
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Did the roman audience know the fight wasn't "real" like the current wrestling audience does, and just come to watch the show? Or was the audience sold on it? Did romans have kayfabe basically is what I'm asking
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Jun 4, 2020 18:55
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Did the roman audience know the fight wasn't "real" like the current wrestling audience does, and just come to watch the show? Well, saying the fight wasn't real is making a huge assumption that we have no evidence for. My presumption is that there was a combination of genuine fights, staged matches, and fights fixed by whoever was making money off the betting. We can say for sure there were at least some real fights, since we have advertisements for gladiator matches that specifically say that they will be sine missione, fights to the death. I don't think you can call it a fake fight like pro wrestling if one of the dudes dies at the end.
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Jun 4, 2020 19:00
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Also, fights not being to the death (sometimes) doesn’t mean they were fake in the pro-wrestling sense. The rules of engagement allowed surrender and also stoppage by the referee.
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Jun 4, 2020 19:08
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Right. I would guess the majority of fights were real. As a presentation/form of entertainment, I think it was a lot like pro wrestling. But the actual fights were more of a martial sport like boxing. There were clear rules, there was a referee right there during the entire fight, there were defined categories and tiers. And even a regular, non-deathmatch fight could very well end in death, either by accident or because you could be executed by the dude off-stage dressed as an Etruscan Vanth with a big fuckin hammer if you gave a bad enough performance.
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Jun 4, 2020 19:12
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Grand Fromage posted:Right. I would guess the majority of fights were real. As a presentation/form of entertainment, I think it was a lot like pro wrestling. But the actual fights were more of a martial sport like boxing. There were clear rules, there was a referee right there during the entire fight, there were defined categories and tiers. And even a regular, non-deathmatch fight could very well end in death, either by accident or because you could be executed by the dude off-stage dressed as an Etruscan Vanth with a big fuckin hammer if you gave a bad enough performance. After breaking my opponent Demetrius I did not kill him immediately. Fate and the cunning treachery of the summa rudis killed me. Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jun 4, 2020 |
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Jun 4, 2020 19:33
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Alhazred posted:You could also be killed by a bad referee, at least according to the tombstone of Diodorus: Lol what a sore loser
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Jun 4, 2020 19:55
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Alhazred posted:The romans probably cared more about the wellbeing of the gladiators than the WWF cares about the wellbeing of their wrestlers though. Can you use wrestlers as an impromptu private military when you're getting involved in fighting in the streets?
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Jun 4, 2020 19:58
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Grand Fromage posted:Right. I would guess the majority of fights were real. As a presentation/form of entertainment, I think it was a lot like pro wrestling. But the actual fights were more of a martial sport like boxing. There were clear rules, there was a referee right there during the entire fight, there were defined categories and tiers. And even a regular, non-deathmatch fight could very well end in death, either by accident or because you could be executed by the dude off-stage dressed as an Etruscan Vanth with a big fuckin hammer if you gave a bad enough performance. i would like to know more about this
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Jun 4, 2020 20:05
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  Pretty cool reconstruction although I don't know why artists are so convinced that ancient people went around without shirts in the sun.
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Jun 4, 2020 20:13
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evilweasel posted:i would like to know more about this There's not much more to it.
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Jun 4, 2020 20:14
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evilweasel posted:i would like to know more about this I thought it was Charun rather than Vanth, but a slave dressed as Charun would smash the skulls of the dead gladiators with a hammer to make sure they were dead. If the gladiator was downed, and the host of the games decided his performance was inadequate, it would also be the hammer.
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Jun 4, 2020 20:19
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Arglebargle III posted:
This reminds me a lot of the Lion's Gate at Mykonos. It's a really impressive site and well worth a visit
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Jun 4, 2020 20:28
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