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Comstar
Apr 20, 2007

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The Roman's ended up fighting a lot of different weapons, cultures, armies and I assume different tactics. Did they end up changing their strategy and tactics vs different opponents or were the various barbarian armies/peoples able to be fought the same way?

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Apr 20, 2007

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Krazyface posted:

Rome: Total War 2 has just been confirmed! Admit it, you're all interested.

They seem to be making ROME TOTAL WAR: The HBO series.

Eurogamer reports:

quote:

Sega has announced that The Creative Assembly's next Total War game will be Rome 2, a sequel to its critically acclaimed 2004 strategy classic, Rome: Total War.

The game's due for release in 2013; at a recent preview event, The Creative Assembly told Eurogamer to expect it in the "second half" of next year.

After the narrow geographical focus of Shogun 2, the Total War series is returning to empire-building on a grand scale with Rome 2, which will feature the series' "most expansive turn-based campaign and the largest, most cinematic real-time battles". According to the developer, it's working with its biggest budget yet.

But there'll also be a new focus on the personal storylines and decisions of the player and key historical figures in the game, with family dilemmas and political plots playing an important part.

The first demonstration of the game featured the destruction of Carthage from the third Punic War. Multiplayer wasn't discussed, but lead designer James Russell said the studio was "planning something big".

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Apr 20, 2007

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Didn't literacy disappeared from mainland Greece for several centuries? Whatever happened it took reading and writing with it - presumably everyone who knew how died out and things were so bad no one really noticed.

I'd like to redo my D&D Dark Sun game as what happened after the apocalypse, but there's so little information about what was happening.

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Apr 20, 2007

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Squalid posted:

...The empire formed in the wake of a Mongol invasion of the island that destroyed their local rivals. The empire would until the 16th century when it is destroyed by rising Muslim powers....

Wait...huh!? A Mongol invasion of Indonesia!? I know they were to central Europe, India, China etc, but I'd never heard that went that far South East. I wouldn't have thought horse arches from the Steppe's would be able to advance through jungle and oceans that far.

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Apr 20, 2007

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sullat posted:

And the Ummayad tax policy is usually cited as the reason why Islam was able to spread so quickly; but it also contained the seeds of their demise.

Going down the rabbit hole...what as the Ummayad tax policy, and why did it help and also bring about the end?

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Apr 20, 2007

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FishFood posted:

Philip rises to power after a bajillion of his ancestors are killed in dynastic struggles. He quickly and decisively establishes a stable power base and then proceeds to make some serious reforms. Macedonia wasn't very centralized, with those aforementioned lords/tribal leaders ruling their own little fiefs. To eliminate squabbling amongst his nobles, he takes nearly all of them of fighting age and makes them his Hetairoi, the Companion cavalry, giving them a fancy title and the promise of glory. He increases the size of the military exponentially, by conscripting and training nearly his entire free male population. He rotates them in and out of service so that farms are still tended, etc. To maintain loyalty to him as opposed to his Macedonian subject's tribal leaders, he splits them up and even gives the peasant phalanx a fancy title; the pezhetairoi, foot companions.

How could he afford all that? Creating an army and then launching campaigns cost money - was it pretty much loot from fighting and beating less organized people keeping it all running?

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Apr 20, 2007

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Deteriorata posted:

Given that iron-working seemed to accompany the arrival of the Sea Peoples, the theory that iron weapons made their wielders almost invincible against their bronze-clad opponents and thus produced the cascading population disruptions is certainly plausible. No one really seems to know.

I have heard recently that bronze weapons and armour aren't too bad or even equal. The difference is you can find iron everywhere, while bronze requires a lot more digging and an international trade network to get the materials together. Is this correct?

Comstar fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Jul 5, 2013

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Apr 20, 2007

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Grand Fromage posted:

The Assyrians were really a unique case (as far as we know) in being such gigantic, unbelievable assholes that they got basically the entire Middle East to band together to annihilate them from history.

What made them so bad, compared to every other empire that conquered all their neighbors?

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Apr 20, 2007

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sullat posted:

Ah, yes Hesiod was complaining about ”kids these days” with their hoplites and their Phoenician alphabet were bring Greece to hades in an amphora.

Speaking of Amphora, why did such a seemingly dominate item that was produced on an industrial scale for centuries, fall out of fashion?

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Apr 20, 2007

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Al Harrington posted:

"Nicomedes IV was restored to his throne in Bithynia in 84 BC. The years that followed were relatively peaceful, though Bithynia came more and more under the control of Rome. In 80 BC, young Gaius Julius Caesar was an ambassador to Nicomedes IV's court. Caesar was sent to raise a fleet using Bithynia's resources..

I always thought building an army by having a General "create" the units didn't sound right. I was wrong. "Lets send young Gaius to build an entire fleet using available resources" sounds like something Captain Kirk would do by first looking around and forming some sort of rudimentary lathe.

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Apr 20, 2007

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I thought Atlantis was always supposed to be Crete? Isn't there a nearby Volcano that DID blow it's top and pretty much killed everyone with an enormous wave of water afterwards? Someone should make a movie about that.

Plato also complained about the invention of writing, so as the first recorded "Kids these days are useless" old man complaining about the next generation. Did he favourably compare how Atlantis kids behaved? What did Atlantis do better than Athens in his opinion?

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Apr 20, 2007

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Octy posted:

Hey, hey guys. There's a movie coming out. It's based on a completely unhistorical non-event. Rome vs China.

http://io9.com/its-hard-to-believe-this-ancient-rome-vs-china-movie-1675376897


Is that anything close to Roman armour and battledress? If so, what era?

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Apr 20, 2007

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Patter Song posted:

It's pretty clear what would actually do, and it involves infiltrating Rome, tricking them into launching their entire army on a navy around the Atlantic because the Gods live on the other side, forcing the Gods to change the geography of Earth so the Roman fleet falls into the waves, and then sinking the entire city of Rome into the Mediterranean as a final act. The armies of Mordor would never need to lift a finger. Generations later people will be asking if Rome was in Bolivia and thinking that it was just a myth.

Sauron tricking Athens to invade Sicily...now that's closer to the outcome. He then runs away to Persia and the whole empire falls to a wave of Greeks later.

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Apr 20, 2007

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Halloween Jack posted:

The really weird thing is that they might have video footage of exactly how we behaved.

I doubt it. With DRM, encryption and the rate of change, we can't read data that was recorded 15 years ago (got any 3.5" disk drives laying around?).

Seeing as this as being recorded by the Libary of Congress - I'd like to say HELLO FUTURE PERSON READING THIS. The numbers at 5,16,19,20,25,30. You know what you must do. Good luck, we're all counting on you.

Comstar fucked around with this message at 01:37 on May 2, 2015

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Apr 20, 2007

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I for one, intend to be buried with grave goods - a Goonswarm Bee, a complete copy of the current or last Dungeons and Dragons (with dice) and a random print out from SomethingAwful.com.

The future will not thank me.

Comstar
Apr 20, 2007

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Greek Merc's show up a lot in Persia aka the 10000 - my question who are these guys? Are they farmers on their winter break? How can they afford all the armour to be a professional heavy infantry mercenary and still afford to not be at home making a living to afford the armour, weapons and spend the time to train to be in a phalanx.

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Apr 20, 2007

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Jerusalem posted:

If I could go back in time I wouldn't bring any futuristic technology, I'd just establish a solid reputation as a soothsayer, then plant myself in the market on Julius Caesar's path to the Senate House and warn him to be careful around the Ides of March.

You already did that- you gave him a note and he didn't read it.

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Apr 20, 2007

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FAUXTON posted:

Basically they ended up bartering so heavily in bronze axe heads that it became currency?

When the western bronze age had it's collapse, bronze axe heads *were* the currency. Nobles and kings were getting buried with dozens of them. right at the point the trade and kingdoms all disintegrated simultaneously.

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Apr 20, 2007

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physeter posted:

All the duels I've found are unlimited time endurance matches, which means just abuse respite and wait for openings, while the opponent exhausts his stamina. Which is kind of cool since that is exactly how a Roman legionary was supposed to fight.

I can barly hurt and not kill a militamen and an armed peasant killed me. How do you do fight?

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Apr 20, 2007

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ChocNitty posted:

Also, whats the deal with ancient greek, or roman copies of greek original statues being painted or not?

Seems like historians now believe some were painted and some were not. It seems odd. It seems like they should have all been painted, or almost none painted. I think if they were painted that there should have been dozens found that still had most or half of their paint remaining. Especially ones found in the hellenized eastern countries with dry climate.

Ask most miniature wargamers about going to the trouble of painting their figures. It can cost more for someone to paint the figures for you, and there was no way I can see that anyone rich enough to have a stature would be painting it themselves. I bet a lot of the unpainted ones were left like that because it was an optional extra cost.

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Apr 20, 2007

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Reminder- Get your 5 FREE OSPREY BOOKS HERE.

It took a week for the order to get processed, the first week took a few minutes, so you might need to be patient. No ancient history ones this week though.

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Apr 20, 2007

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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:

His WWI history really bothered me and now I'm unwilling to give him a chance at all. This is me admitting my prejudices.

Why so?

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Apr 20, 2007

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Grand Fromage posted:

Roman field camps had a wall and a ditch around them, and they did indeed build one every night according to the sources. The remains of some have been found. Presumably they brought the stakes for the walls with them and it was all a prefab structure. The ditch would be about six feet deep and surround the entire camp outside the wall, it's just another barrier for attackers.

How long it would take, probably a couple hours? There's no way to be sure, but you can do a lot of work real fast with 6,000+ men who are well trained and practiced in it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castra. We have the field manual for it! .

quote:

A castrum was designed to house and protect the soldiers, their equipment and supplies when they were not fighting or marching.

The most detailed description that survives about Roman military camps is De Munitionibus Castrorum, a manuscript of 11 pages that dates most probably from the late 1st to early 2nd century AD.[7]

Regulations required a major unit in the field to retire to a properly constructed camp every day. "… as soon as they have marched into an enemy's land, they do not begin to fight until they have walled their camp about; nor is the fence they raise rashly made, or uneven; nor do they all abide ill it, nor do those that are in it take their places at random; but if it happens that the ground is uneven, it is first levelled: their camp is also four-square by measure, and carpenters are ready, in great numbers, with their tools, to erect their buildings for them."[8] To this end a marching column ported the equipment needed to build and stock the camp in a baggage train of wagons and on the backs of the soldiers.

Camps were the responsibility of engineering units to which specialists of many types belonged, officered by architecti, "chief engineers", who requisitioned manual labor from the soldiers at large as required. They could throw up a camp under enemy attack in as little as a few hours. Judging from the names, they probably used a repertory of camp plans, selecting the one appropriate to the length of time a legion would spend in it: tertia castra, quarta castra, etc. (a camp of three days, four days, etc.).[9]

More permanent camps were castra stativa (standing camps). The least permanent of these were castra aestiva or aestivalia, "summer camps", in which the soldiers were housed sub pellibus or sub tentoriis, "under tents".[10] Summer was the campaign season. For the winter the soldiers retired to castra hiberna containing barracks and other buildings of more solid materials, with timber construction gradually being replaced by stone.[11]

The camp allowed the Romans to keep a rested and supplied army in the field. Neither the Celtic nor Germanic armies had this capability: they found it necessary to disperse after only a few days.

The largest castra were legionary fortresses built as bases for one or more whole legions.[12][13]

From the time of Augustus more permanent castra with wooden or stone buildings and walls were introduced as the distant and hard-won boundaries of the expanding empire required permanent garrisons to control local and external threats from war-like tribes. Previously, legions were raised for specific military campaigns and subsequently disbanded, requiring only temporary castra. From then on many castra of various sizes were established many of which became permanent settlements.

Also, they used 10 foot poles to build it. Turns out the old D&D rule of carrying a 10 foot pole is perfectly acceptable.

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Apr 20, 2007

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Isn’t there a political theory that says when the elites take more and more of the GDP eventually you get a revolution? And most societies tend to end that way, Rome included.

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Apr 20, 2007

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Grand Fromage posted:

If we're just talking something that's been in continuous use and buildings count, I'm thinking the Pantheon. But there might be older temples that were converted to churches, that's just the first one that comes to mind that I know has been in continuous use since it was built.

There is a 5000 year old burial chamber (maybe?) in the backyard of a random cafe in France. You can walk into it and have a picnic in it if the cafe is open that day. That's 500 years older than the Pyramids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S6wP8ox1R4

quote:

The Brasserie le Dolmen is a family-run café with an unusual garden feature: a 5,000-year-old megalithic chamber. It's the biggest prehistoric structure of its kind in France, and one of the largest in the world, so why has no-one heard of it? I

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Apr 20, 2007

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sullat posted:

Sure, Cato's treatise on farming basically says you should aim to work your slaves hard enough so that they break down by about 2 years, and then you stop feeding them and replace them with new slaves. I think the French came up with the same cost/benefit analysis in Haiti as well. Of course, that only really applies when slaves are cheap to replace, when they're more expensive you make sure they don't die of overwork but you also get real obsessive about preventing them from escaping.

Is two years the mean time someone typically lasts at Amazon these days?

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Apr 20, 2007

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Ithle01 posted:

One of the points in Goldstone's Revolution and Rebellion in the Early Modern World is that insufficient space in the elite sphere is #2 of the eight causes that lead to state breakdown

...Uhh..what are the other 7? Asking for a friend. And how many apply to the USA right about now.

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Apr 20, 2007

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PawParole posted:

has there ecer been a time in roman history when a general rebelled but his troops stayed loyal?

AFAIK there were several people who declared themselves Emperor, and shortly thereafter, their Legion killed them. There might have been a lost battle or two along the way.

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Apr 20, 2007

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cheetah7071 posted:

This is not limited to soft sciences

As far as I can tell though, Economics is exclusivity used for political power and using it as a political weapon (to keep the rich and powerful, more rich and powerful),

In Roman/Ancient times: Soothsayers and Priests. Asking Jupiter would be more useful and less harmful than relying on an Economist for anything. Cheaper too - I think Jupiter would be happy with a goat or some chicken.

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Apr 20, 2007

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HookedOnChthonics posted:

then his son louis the pious has just an absolutely insane reign. truly one of the greats, from a standpoint of ruling, especially in the succession-issue area :allears:

Who? I know the first 3, but whose this guy? Please go into some detail.

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Apr 20, 2007

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Elissimpark posted:

Apparently human leather is tricky to make. I need to find the source, but I'm pretty sure I've read our skin is a bit delicate for good leather making.

I am sure they were very good at it. Or the poor guy in charge of it if he was not very good at it, would shortly learn the practical side of the theory by his replacement.

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Apr 20, 2007

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sullat posted:

IIRC they weren't paid solely in grain, they also got an allowance of meat, clothes, oil and veggies. Well, onions mostly. We know this from surviving ledgers.

Is there a cookbook to make the meal someone would eat to build the Pyramids.


Future people will read our cookbooks on what to live on when in Skyrim.

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Apr 20, 2007

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Carillon posted:

So this might be a silly question, but why weren't any pyramids built bigger than Khufu's at Giza? It seems relatively early in the chronology of the buildings, so it doesn't seem to be the end point of a period where they are getting bigger and bigger, until that was the largest one. Was it built during a period where the economic, cultural and climate conditions made it special? Was it just that Pharoah's decided other things were more important than heigh? I'm far from an Egyptologist, so sorry if this is a dumb question.

I always thought it was because it maps exactly to the belt of Orion in size and shape.

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Apr 20, 2007

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Nessus posted:

Is this like furry animated stuff or is it narration over nature videos?

Sounds like someone got someone to invest in making their fetish.


Not that’s there’s anything wrong with that.

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Apr 20, 2007

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feedmegin posted:

Or more appositely reading Churchill's own history of WW2, which does exist.

Did he admit to any mistakes? From what I know he spends a lot of time explaining why he did what he did and he was perfectly correct to do so.


Same goes for Churchill.

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Apr 20, 2007

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cheetah7071 posted:

You don't need to be a disbeliever or a charlatan to get the results you want from a reading. In messy datasets (literally messy, for entrails), if you go in predisposed to be looking for a specific answer, you will probably find it. All it requires is that the process be complicated enough, and require enough judgment calls, that the same omens might plausibly be read differently by two non-charlatan diviners.

Economists and any economic advice.

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Apr 20, 2007

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Yes, but that's because I watch Time Team Classic on youtube a lot, which often mentions Roman's.


Also, this thread.

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Apr 20, 2007

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Dopilsya posted:

On a more serious note, in Revelation 20, Satan is explicitly described as a dragon. I'm not sure what conclusions you might draw from that, but surely the author would be familiar with that usage.

Yes but nowadays we just call them Billionaires.


Who have less money than Smaug.

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Apr 20, 2007

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Tree Bucket posted:

"Tearing down walls" sounds like a hellishly difficult job. Is it easier with mudbrick, at least?

Enslave the populace and get them to do it. Massed slave labor were you don't care about causalities can accomplish much ~ engraved on a tablet in a ruined city.

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Apr 20, 2007

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Follow up question- why didn’t Egypt just conquer….everyone? You had later empires much larger in size but no one else is around at the start.

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