Roman/ancient history: Checkmate, Atenists

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Roman/ancient history: Checkmate, Atenists

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Grand Fromage posted:

Roman geography gets pretty confused once you get too far past the edges of the empire. I don't think they believed the Sahara went on forever, but they were aware it was big enough to not be worth their time to bother with. They were quite aware of Sahara nomads and set up defensive walls along the southern border to deal with it.

I thought it was less "walls" and more....guard outposts at mountain passes and known oases (oasises?)?

# ¿ May 31, 2018 17:16

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# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 14:39

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

skasion posted:

There were four or five Roman expeditionary forces sent across the Sahara in the first century AD. Along various routes, some made it at least as far as the River Niger. One got to somewhere called Agisymba, possibly around Lake Chad, and brought back a rhino.

This makes me want to write or read about an alt-history scenario where one of these expeditions found the gold fields of Bambuk or something so the Romans send an armed expedition to conquer it and it ends up being a Greeks-in-Bactria or Greeks-in-India kinda thing. Then it gets cut off when there is some chaos and a few hundred years later a massive Romanized Nigerian army crosses the Sahara and starts up some poo poo.

# ¿ May 31, 2018 17:32

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

What's this about Atlantis and Bolivia?

# ¿ Jun 7, 2018 23:33

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Dalael posted:

Its not quite how it is no. Plus that question was rhetorical and a jab at me.

My god your red text is apt, like Koramei said, I've been here a week and that was a genuine question. I was hoping to help change the topic because holy poo poo the past three pages should be sent to D&D. I'm here for the history, not to try to prove a point or argue with people.

Thank you Koramei and Tomn for your replies.

Grand Fromage posted:

All right guys shut the gently caress up with the museums derail. I was hoping it wouldn't devolve into angry name calling but we have arrived.

Thank you, too.

# ¿ Jun 8, 2018 06:59

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Dalael posted:

I didn't know, i rarely spend time checking people's reg date. I'm used to this subject being brought up as nothing more than a jab at me.

ahahaha not to dogpile or whatever but I've been on SA for like 15 years and this account was registered in 2008. I've been reading this particular thread for two weeks tops. I'm new to this thread and Koramei knew that because s/he recognize me from other threads we are both common to.

Any way, going to drop it now because it doesn't add to the discussion.

# ¿ Jun 8, 2018 18:08

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Omnomnomnivore posted:

�ATM machine�

"PIN Number"

# ¿ Jun 16, 2018 16:57

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Halloween Jack posted:

Salt and pepper, maybe a little saffron.

Seriously though: I see it repeated as a truism that salt was practically money in ancient times, but I've read other sources indicating that the plenitude of salt was wildly variable based on region. I read something in a book I can't remember that a proverb in one coastal French region, in medieval times, was "Salt and advice are free for the taking." Any comment on that?

I know that in the middle ages there was a salt mine in the Sahara halfway between Morocco and sub-Saharan Africa where I think salt was mined to trade for gold. No food grew there, no fresh water was available, there was nothing there except the salt mine and slaves mining it.

I also know native Hawaiians had carved small "bowls" into coastal rock formations to put water into so it would evaporate and they could then collect the salt.

So I think the "its regional" thing sounds apt. Also those references arent Roman era but I think they are still relevant.

# ¿ Jun 20, 2018 20:01

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Grand Fromage posted:

Ah, interesting. Polynesia is a region I know next to nothing about other than the cool wave navigation thing.

Who the what now?

I've learned a little bit spending four weeks in Hawaii over the past two years but I dont know about no wave navigation thing.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2018 14:05

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

FreudianSlippers posted:

I'd say the Hungarians won the race.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2018 23:26

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

I love seeing poo poo like this because I love connecting the dots, like there being "Sakha" on that and there is a place named "Sakhalin" and "Tuvan" right where Tannu Tuva is in HoI4.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2018 00:04

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Grand Fromage posted:

Greeks were keeping rainfall records long before Korea existed.

I thought it was fascinating when I read that all of the 1000+ Greek Poleis in the Mediterranean basin, something like 98% were founded in locations with very low direct rainfall and low humidity.

# ¿ Aug 29, 2018 20:08

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Thats crazy - I dont see his hands moving at all so all the different noises are him using differing amounts of force when blowing into the thing? I know next to nothing about playing instruments though so maybe I am missing something...

# ¿ Sep 7, 2018 14:20

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Zopotantor posted:

That picture clearly shows a land bridge.

I think he was saying New Guinea <==> The Rest Of The World.

Maybe?

# ¿ Sep 28, 2018 16:21

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Am I crazy or do I remember reading that some sort of geneological study showed that Polynesians are descended from people who originated in Madagascar?

Telsa Cola posted:

Edit: In hindsight we do not need a rant on water channels and species dispersal.

Why not?

# ¿ Sep 29, 2018 14:40

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Pontius Pilate posted:

Roman emperors used violet dye. Jesus lead a peaceful life but had to violently die.

This is from like a dozen pages ago but :golfclap:

# ¿ Jan 6, 2019 20:34

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Alan Smithee posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMD1Lr8RaWA

watching that ridiculous Iraq War allegory Robin Hood

I'm not familiar with ancient anti-personnel siege weapons past the Roman Scorpio, was there actually something like this in the medieval era?

lol I'm in the US and its blocked here.

# ¿ Mar 13, 2019 22:07

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

King of False Promises posted:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/mar/17/nile-shipwreck-herodotus-archaeologists-thonis-heraclion

Nile shipwreck discovery proves Herodotus right � after 2,469 years

He was right, but what is so special about the ship/construction? The article assumes you know a lot more than I do, I feel like?

# ¿ Mar 18, 2019 18:40

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Is this thread a good place to ask about the Danube and how its lower reaches/estuary do not have a major city/port? Its something I have always been curious about and I was wondering if there are other people who have been curious about it and know more?

Delthalaz posted:

Pretty much the only book about precolumbian America that I�ve read is 1491 and this thread is rekindling my curiosity. Can you recommend any good, well-written books on the topic? I know that�s obviously a huuuge time and space but I don�t know where to begin. Incas and Aztecs I guess.

I read a really good book about the two men that 'discovered' the Mayans and many of their cities back in the 1800s I think? I found the book fascinating. Problem is I cannot remember the name of it and it is at home and I am at work, so I'm hoping I remember to check later.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2019 20:08

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Telsa Cola posted:

Stephens and Catherwoods Incidents of Travel? The art Catherwood did is amazing.

Its a book about their travels and the writing of Stephens and Catherwoods Incidents of Travel, yes. I think it may be called "Jungle of Stone"?

edit: Google is my friend and confirmed that it is indeed "Jungle of Stone".

# ¿ Jul 16, 2019 20:40

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

golden bubble posted:

That's a really interesting question. It also makes me wonder why Bucharest is located just north of the Danube. If Bucharest was like 50 miles further south, it would serve that role. But it doesn't, and I have no idea why.

Yeah there are several cities of local importance on tributaries but none actually on the Danube all the way up to Belgrade, which was founded as a fort to help control the confluence of like three rivers with the Danube right there.

skasion posted:

Could it just be that the Danube mouth has been in a kind of crappy geopolitical position for a long time? It was on the fringes of the Roman world, early Middle Ages it�s getting run over by Avars and Cumans and Slavs and whoever else, it�s not really in the heart of the territory of the Byzantines or the Russians or the Turks or the Polish or whoever. I�m sure I�m overlooking something but it seems like it�s been a disputed borderland for someone or other for most of the last two thousand years.

This makes a lot of sense.

Platystemon posted:

It would be the Venice on the Black Sea.

But Venice has had enough problems with water, and it�s rivers aren�t as big as the Danube.

It was also founded out of necessity, not because building a city in a lagoon was a great idea.

This makes me more curious about the beginnings of Venice, which I know nothing about.

PittTheElder posted:

Isn't it also navigable like way up into Germany? Presumably you just sail your boat to wherever you're actually trying to go rather than stopping at an entrepot?

That is what I have read. I know when I was reading about the Turkish invasion of the Balkans that there were often riverboat navies fighting and supplies coming up the Danube because it was faster and easier than trying to hoof them over the mountainous terrain.

I wonder if the fact that the Danube goes the wrong direction away from the major cities compared to where those cities primarily traded? Like... Vienna and even Budapest didnt have much interest in the lower reaches of the Danube? And because there was never one polity (after Rome collapsed) that controlled the whole length of the river, so trade flowing either direction had to worry about getting robbed by someone based in another country?

# ¿ Jul 17, 2019 14:25

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

The Delian League was a big Athenian protection racket, the Athenians solicited gold and soldiers and created a massive navy that would pillage their "allies" if they wanted to stop paying tribute. The Peloponnesian League was slightly less exploitative, but the Spartans were ofc subjugating the helots in their home turf all the time.

From what I read on the subject (not a ton; most of what I am about to say comes from a boring but descriptive book called "The Rise and Fall of Classical Greece") the Delian League had many knock-on benefits that really helped many of the smaller members of the league. Such as, but not limited to:

The Athenians having a big navy patrolling the Aegean reduced piracy
The smaller members would not have to worry about threats from other nearby Greek Poleis because they were all members of The League
Trade flourished due to a common, stable, market
The smaller members did not have to furnish men to fight and thus the extra manpower (and having a League-wide market to sell to) boosted their economies and population growth

For example, after a few decades in the system, a small polis could be paying X to the Athenians to be a part of the League but would be taking home X*2 due their economy growing so significantly.

Also it looked to me like the Athenians and the Delian League were doing fine until the Athenians decided to go full imperialist and send a MASSIVE invasion force to Sicily because :reasons:; had they tried to grow via more stable means they still would have had the occasional dissenter but otherwise may have continued humming along for a while longer.

# ¿ Jul 23, 2019 22:57

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Cyrano4747 posted:

My dad is a retired vascular surgeon. Texted him they link and apparently it�s more or less the same procedure today.

Just, you know, with antiseptic and local anesthetic.

I'll need to read up on what the hell Varicose Veins are because good lord...

# ¿ Jul 29, 2019 19:49

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

I've looked around at the different threads and I dont think I see one better than this to ask:
Can anyone point me to a good book or even a wiki page about what some of the key technological or social developments that lead to humans building and congregating in cities were? I know there are some basics like animal domestication and agriculture, but I'm curious if there are any other essential parts to it. Thank you!

edit: I guess I'll go ahead and provide some context - I'm an aspiring board game designer in my free time and I'm trying to think of some basic / start-of-game technologies for people to have as options in a game that is going to be my own version and a spiritual successor to the Avalon Hill 1980 vintage Civilization. People start off on a map of the fertile crescent with one pop and slowly grow to build cities and buy techs, and I'm trying to think of some early cheap techs that will make building a city more reasonable.

AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 18:29 on May 2, 2021

# ¿ May 2, 2021 18:24

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

I did not expect so many replies, thank you everyone! I would normally quote the replies but that would be a lot of quoting!

# ¿ May 3, 2021 14:32

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Hi Roman/ancient history thread, I mostly lurk but I have to post a question because I'm baffled. I've read about Persia had a long history of being a populous cultural home of ancient empires. I've been working on a map for a boardgame I want to make so I've been looking topographical maps of Persia and I'm curious.... how was this a seat of empires? Look at this one (its all of the fertile crescent but I assume anyone reading this thread knows which part is Persia-esque):

Its all high mountains. Is there somewhere I can read about how rich and powerful empires imposed their will across the near east from what looks to be a mountainous hellhole?

# ¿ Jan 18, 2022 01:47

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Wow, thank you for all of the replies everyone! I was not expecting such a response. That is all incredibly useful info! I wont get to go through it in fine detail until later after work but I'm excited to have so much to work with.

Re: Greece and Anatolia also being mountainous - of course, but they received more focus and detail in the education I've received and the historical stuff I've read on those areas. Therefore I had a better idea about how to handle them when setting up their regions for the map I'm making. On the other hand, I knew pretty much nothing about Persia in comparison and I was having bad luck researching - like Tulip said the map I used as an example did a bad job showing me what I was looking for, while Tulip and Slim Jim Pickens' maps and info do a way better job showing me what I'm looking for.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2022 14:31

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Mr. Nice! posted:

In this case it is mitochondrial dna. Mitochondria are the powerhouse of the cells and contain different dna than your dna. This specifically comes from your mother, and she got it from her mother, and it goes back tens of thousands of years before you see a mutation. So many of us share the exact same mitochondrial dna and there actually is a woman at some point in time that is technically the ancestor to all present living humans as traceable via mitochondrial dna.

There�s a lot of difficulty in figuring out genetic markers for north american natives because we killed them all. South americans, however, were not so destroyed. As a result, we have a lot of DNA evidence that there was polynesian peoples in Peru a long drat time ago. We�ve long had the theory that they were there because thats where polynesians got sweet potatoes.

As a Hawaii lover, polynesians amaze me. Though apparently they got to Hawaii pretty late in the game compared to South America.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2022 15:02

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Hey history loving folks, I am making a boardgame about the beginnings of civilization (I'm still waffling on the start date but something in the ballpark of 10,000 BCE). I just asked a question about Persia a few pages ago. I'm making a map and I'd like your feedback! Every region has a color coded circle in it, with a number inside that. The color represents the dominant climate & terrain type; the number represents how many pop tokens can live there by default. There will be technologies to increase the pop limits, so for example eventually the floodplains will support double the pops shown on the map while most other regions are only going to go up by 1. Here are the color coding things:
+ Blue: Riverlands; the region is dominated by a major river and its alluvial plain
+ Orange: Dry Hills; the region is dominated by hills, smaller mountains, and plateaus, but water is scarce
+ Dark Green: Lush Hills; the region is dominated by hills, smaller mountains, and plateaus where water is abundant
+ Yellow: Drylands, Desert, and Steppe; these regions are either dry and mostly devoid of water or flat and unremarkable
+ Light Green: Grasslands; the region is mostly flat and has rivers, but is not dominated by a major river
+ Grey: Mountain; soaring snow covered peaks of a mountain range dominate these regions

Please tell me how wrong I am about any of this, if you so desire!

I'm iffy on having the yellow land up north for the steppes but I didnt want to add another color and figure grasslands are not entirely appropriate? Otherwise I feel pretty good about it.

Please also tell me if this is inappropriate for this thread and I will never ask this kind of question again. I'm posting it in part hoping to change the drat subject.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2022 15:28

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

euphronius posted:

Coastlines didn�t look like that 12,000 years ago

At all

"At all"? Really? I'm not trying to be a jerk because I asked for feedback, but the coastlines have not changed dramatically in such a way that would be easily recognizable on a map of this scale, except for river deltas, some of which I have altered to be different than their modern day counterparts. If you look close where what is currently called the Shatt-al-'Arab discharges into the Persian Gulf you can see where I withdrew the coastline a decent distance. Another thing you can easily see if you look close is that I made the Caspian larger. Therefore do you have a specific thing you think is very wrong with the map's coastlines or a good place where I can see / research what should be different?

euphronius posted:

Also Sahara and Arabian deserts were much different 12,000 years ago

I'm aware but I'm not sure how I can show them on a scale of the game I'm trying to make. According to some research I've done (like https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1631068305001387 and https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Libyan_Desert) the Libyan desert has had extremely sparse populations, at best, living in it forever. It occasionally got some monsoon rains that hade it slightly more habitable around 8,000 BCE-ish, but nothing that is worth representing in a game.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

I feel like that kind of map probably exists somewhere.

Yeah I've looked, and I cant find one.

Kaal posted:

Agreed. My thought would be to try and get in touch with a local university geography department. Not only would they have resources available, but they might have a lot of interesting highlights worth including.

This is a great idea, though.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2022 18:51

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

euphronius posted:

You could be in between stage 2 and 3 here https://www.world-archaeology.com/world/asia/iran/persian-gulf-the-first-migration/

For example just found that in GiS

Also

Well poo poo, I need to do better research then.

oops, missed one before

cheetah7071 posted:

I believe Mesopotamia was densely forested as well

Interesting, I may have to do more research on that. I've read that along the major rivers there is a decent number of trees but away from them in northern Mesopotamia, south of the major mountain ranges that are the source of the Tigris and Euphrates (essentially the land that is in modern say Syria on this map: https://cdn.britannica.com/50/5950-050-A746DF94/river-basin-Tigris-drainage-network-Euphrates.jpg and what I read on Brittanica about it), the land was pretty dry outside the river valleys in part because that far north in their courses the rivers flow through pretty solid rock rather than through an alluvial plain. But, chances are I need to do more research!
Map in that link:

# ¿ Feb 1, 2022 19:05

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

PittTheElder posted:

Greece and Anatolia probably looked quite a big rougher back then as well, here's the one random example I knew of showing just how much the plains have expanded over the millenia:

This is amazing, thank you. I knew there would be some silting in the Greece area but from what I read previously, I didnt see anything even hinting at this.

Kaal posted:

One other thought I had was that the timeline of the game is also going to guide the map, since it'll be an amalgamation of the beginning and ending periods. If the game runs from 10,000 BCE to 4,500 BCE (aka the Neolithic Age) then you may want map that reflects the fullness of that period, and perhaps represents a best estimate of about 7,000 BCE. Of course you may be using tokens, stickers, or other objects to represent such changes, and therefore want the map to only be the initial state.

This is a great point. I didnt bring up the timeline because I dont want to end up derail the thread too badly with boardgamechat but if/when I find a better source of info on things like the coastline in the eras I want the game to be about I should definitely do this.

Lead out in cuffs posted:

This looks promising: https://www.jstor.org/stable/213080

It's on SciHub if you're ok with :files:

It's also worth noting that deforestation is the main theme of the Epic of Gilgamesh.

That does indeed look promising, thank you!

Re: Gilgamesh - I had no idea, I should probably give that a thorough read.

CommonShore posted:

Starting by saying I love the concept because what follows is more of a suggestion but it might be read like critique bordering on attack. Please take this constructively. If you haven't seen the board game design thread in Trad Games, you should start posting there too.

Now I'm tuned into the board game world as well as this kind of stuff, and there have been some discussions in the last few years about how lots of "civilization" themed board games (including "colonization" themed ones) are extremely Eurocentric and have quite a few content problems as a result of modelling certain historiographical assumptions into their material and often inadvertently reinforcing psuedo-historical and pseudo-scientific discourses related to historical progress, social development etc, e.g. that "civilization" is the growth of agriculture which is a level up the tech tree allowing cities to replace "primitive" hunter gatherer societies, etc. My first reaction is that choosing the middle east/fertile crescent as a centre of your modelling may inadvertently go down this path: and this path has been pretty thoroughly trodden by countless other board games. There are tons of different, interesting, and sophisticated pathways that human societies took through various -lithic eras of the past and all kinds of cool outcomes, and those deserve some exploration too. Focusing on the fertile crescent, for example, excludes the cool agricultural complexes developed in New Guinea.

So here is my central suggestion related to your current question: do a modular, ahistorical map with room for in-game modification. Look at something like Terra Mystica or Gaia Project - the map has room for variable setup, and terrain can change from one type to another. Dominant Species does similar things. This would allow you to model natural climate change as well as human modification of the landscape, both of which are major factors in the era and time scale you're exploring: irrigate the desert! Grow more! Oh poo poo this caused aridification elsewhere and those pastoralists are now hosed.

My secondary suggestion - and you may be here already, as you haven't described the rest of your game - is to design paths to victory other than racing to the end of a path of hunter-gatherer nomads to sedintary agriculturalists to urban states. IMO this is almost a marketing suggestion, too, as the former (a)historical model (in whole or in part) has been beaten to death in board gaming, whereas there's actually demand for a more diverse model which reflects wider realities of human experience, and/or explores alt-history possibilities. If you make a good game that models these things you could be sitting on the next Spirit Island rather than yet another Civilization variant. Just thinking about the concept gets me excited and honestly if you put up a kickstarter (with good rules ofc) for that game, I would back it.

Thank you for the detailed post! It does not read on bordering on an attack but I appreciate the lead-in with that because of how easy it is to misconstrue what someone says via plain text on the internet. I did not know we had a baord game design thread in Trad Games so I will be finding that later tonight.
Re: civilization-themed board games - its funny you mention that, this game is inspired heavily by the Tresham Civilization boardgame from 1981. I am not super in-tune with the boardgame world but have heard the genre is, uh, popular but I went ahead and made the map essentially as an excuse to learn how to use the free photoshop tool called GIMP (I say it that way due to people on the internet having dirty minds so simply saying "GIMP" goes bad places). I would like to think that I have done quite a bit of research on the topic of early civilizations, enough that if I would have a "beer" tech it would be something you get before/will not require cities because I read at least two different things how recent research has it looking like alcoholic beverages were a well established thing earlier than originally thought and seem to have been brewed with wild grains long before domesticated grains were used by settled peoples. In any case, I'm the kind of turbonerd that likes things to be correct so for a boardgame I want to build the mechanics around being right, rather than buildings mechanics and just slap common concepts on them.
Re: your central suggestion - for what I have in mind for the map I've built and the game I'd like to try to make, this will not work. HOWEVER, I love Dominant Species and I am intrigued by the concepts you are presenting so I've taken note to think about them more in case I would want to work on something related to them.
Re: secondary suggestion - as mentioned, I didnt go too much more into the game to try to keep from derailing the thread too hard, but, yes, I love the idea of there being more than one way to win and your suggestion is an excellent point. I have been chatting with some friends who also played a lot of Tresham Civ about brainstorming ways to have a similar game be built so players can win without just spamming/rushing/focusing cities and the resultant tech climbing. Part of why I included the Pontic steppe was because, for example, Greeks traded with the residents of that area quite a bit so it would be neat if a player could actually live there and succeed.

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

If this game starts in 10,000 BC then you need to upend your understanding of what "civilization" looks like. All the major sites of the pre-pottery Neolithic are located in the highlands, none in the riverlands, even the Nile or Mesopotamia.

Answers like this is part of why I wanted to post in this thread about it. I've read a bunch about early civilization when starting to work on the early game mechanics for this game but this simple fact didnt hit me until you said it. First example being the part of my response to CommonShore about beer being brewed from wild grains before people lived in cities. I also read about people that migrated from the Libyan desert to the Nile region when the weather patterns changed and it got even drier. I never stopped to think about "hey people didnt live on the rivers way back when". Now I have to think about how that could be modeled in the game, or move the start date up.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2022 03:06

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Tunicate posted:

Ethiopia managed against Italy, partially through importing modern weapons, and partially because the British left all their poo poo behind on their 'fight our way across half the country to gently caress up one guy in particular, then leave' invasion.

And mountains. So. Many. Mountains.

Tunicate posted:

the British left all their poo poo behind on their 'fight our way across half the country to gently caress up one guy in particular, then leave' invasion.

Who the what now?

# ¿ Feb 11, 2022 02:06