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Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:

I asked this a few months ago in the Military History thread, but figured yall might be able to answer it better. Following the (second) Dacian War,

How did the Roman Economy deal with having 1x its GDP in gold and (idk how many times) it's GDP in silver added to it?

If it wasn't put into the economy, what exactly did the Romans do with it? I assume some the troops took as loot and the powerful families took a share.

This is based off of the amount of gold and silver they took from Dacia once it was conquered (165,500 kg of gold and 331,000 kg of silver).

Just wondering, why was there so much gold and silver in Dacia? Not exactly a rich place, I would think.

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Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Why did Britian (and the Germanic tribes which invaded it) not Romanize, when the rest of the WRE did?

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


I always hear in thread about how Sulla both saved the republic and doomed it by being the first governor to march on Rome with his army, but apart from that I'm not sure what he actually did. Can someone do a long post on what Sulla did and why he was important?

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


BurningStone posted:

I strongly suspect, though it can't be proven, that our vision of Ceaser is mostly a creation of Octavian/Agustus. His rise to power was based on nothing but being Ceaser's heir and adopted son, and he built a powerful propaganda machine. Look how it still colors popular perceptions of Cleopatra even today.

Then Shakespear sealed it. He even got people who know better to say "Mark Anthony."

On that point, where would of Shakespeare got the historical information to write his historical plays in the first place? I cant that kind of information being easily available in Elizabethan England.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


euphronius posted:

Latin didn't disappear as a common language at all and modern English is heavily influenced by it and even moreso influenced by French which is of course a romance language (with Germanic influence!).

http://www.amazon.com/Latin-Alive-Survival-English-Languages/dp/0521734185

Most of the Latin influence came from the use of Latin as a scholarly language through the medieval period. The Latin influence on pre-1066 English is negligible, but only afterwards becomes more prominent.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Arglebargle III posted:

Civil War: 190-208 AD


Thanks again for doing these, I now somewhat understand what was going on in Dynasty Warriors now!

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Captain Postal posted:

Serious question: How is this different to China? Much of their good poo poo has been destroyed, but the stuff that survived often did it by being sold on the black market over 500 years, and now that China is economically very powerful and needs to spend all that money on something, they're buying it back, or philanthropists are buying it and donating it back.

That's why I said it might take centuries to rebuild these collections that ISIL is selling off, and these cultures to regain their heritage, but it can be done so long as it isn't destroyed for a youtube propaganda video.

Sure, the artefacts survive, which is better than them being destroyed: but losing the context of the artefacts means we lose much historical detail you can learn from them.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Pornographic Memory posted:

What the gently caress? I don't want to derail this thread too much, but I hadn't heard about this...is there anywhere to read a summary of this?

The last few pages of this thread here are most of the recent revelations.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


On the topic, how were Alexander The Great's logistics organised? By his success in the field they must have been good, especially as they were mostly travelling among hostile or formally hostile land aganist a enemy with naval superiority.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Friendly Tumour posted:

Well considering that literacy became the sole purview of priests after the fall of Rome, yeah you could say that medical knowledge among everything else deteriorated.

Not metallurgy! If I remember correctly from the last time this conversation happened, progress was made around europe in metallurgy quite consistently throughout the 400-1400 AD period, and nowhere did it regress.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Besides, the British museum is probably one of the safest place for artifacts to be, from both natural and mad-made disasters.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


There was trade routes running up to Cornwall from the Med in roman times, iirc, so they must have had good enough sailors to cross the bay of biscay/english channel fine and regularly enough to trade with it, or they took along the french coast their galleys all the way easy to Calais before sailing back to Cornwall. I don't know which one it is, but you can get some rough seas on the atlantic coastline which romans should have been used to sailing (not that that is the same as crossing the atlantic)

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


LingcodKilla posted:

Yeah you can literally see across that lane of water at certain points in that region. It was not exactly sailing into the unknown. Sailing from Italy to Africa is more treacherous. Due to shallow seabed the Med can be extremely treacherous. It's no joke and it's why just making a run for shore and beaching is a common practice.

Sure: you can take the safe route, hug the Spainish/French coast till you get to a point in the English channel thin enough you can make a short hop across open sea. But thats alot longer than crossing the bay of Biscay itself, or hopping over the wider bits of the channel (still quite close to shore, mind you, just not in sight). If that was a trade route the romans sailed (instead of hauling stuff overland) then merchants probably would have had incentives to shorten the route by taking faster routes.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


WoodrowSkillson posted:

Come to think of it decimation was treated the same way. When Crassus revived it apparently most people were like "really? what the gently caress?" Same for the other smattering of times generals used it post 100 BC.

Then the WW1 Italian army comes along and does it for real.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


HEY GAL posted:

here is the deets.

british 17th century stuff is influenced real hard by british 17th century reenactors. and those dudes do not know how to fight.

it's entirely possible he saw a reenactment and thought that was how things went.

So, like actual 17th century brits?

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Halloween Jack posted:

I don't know what researchers actually conducted the study, but more to the point, I don't think that Rome actually "collapsed" in the same sense of the word that NASA is using to predict a worldwide collapse of industrial civilization. I'm sure that many areas suffered a steep decline in safety, distant trade, education, and public services that citizens under Trajan's rule could take for granted, but people weren't scrabbling for weapons or tools or other consumer goods that nobody knew how to manufacture anymore.

Trade networks collapsed across the Mediterranean, which meant complex economic networks built up around export of consumer goods also collapsed: no-one would buy your stuff anymore, and you couldn't buy other cities stuff. Metalworking, as something done everywhere, wasn't hit as hard but alot of consumer goods did disappear.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


I can't remember the details of the paper, but it came from DNA analysis of different maize crops. The conclusion was that for the first 1000 years or so of maize being grown by humans, the corns would still be too small to be able to eat or get much nutrition out of. However, you would be able to mash up the micro-corns and use it to make weak alcohol. So the authors theorised that maize was grown for a long period before it was worth growing for food soles for the purpose of making alcohol, and only after than was going on for awhile did we breed maize crops it was worth farming for the food alone.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


VanSandman posted:

The Romans, being the original trolls, gave that particular Antony the honorific 'Creticus,' which can mean both '(Conqueror) of Crete' or 'Man of Chalk.'

Any link to the noun "cretin" or just sound similar?

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


I'm looking to go to Rome this summer, so what Roman stuff or cool museums is there in Rome which are not immediately obvious? I'm not much for art/paintings, and want to get all the ancient ruins/medieval poo poo I can in the few days I'm there.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Since it's coming up: sorry future historians for some many tweets(14 character messages often used for quick communication with the world by groups & inderviduals) , photos and archives which aren't archived with posts. If you do see a quote with an article link it sometimes and sometimes isn't the whole thing, and LP is screenshots of people playing games usually showing only the game itself, sorry they all gone.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Isn't this mostly just because the greeks/Romans were into statues and later Europeans weren't to the same extent? Like, we have a poo poo load of Roman statues and busts, but if they painted anything on canvass, paper etc it's lost. The art might just be of a style that dissappears easily.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


The church didn't start making images of the Crucifixion till around 400 AD, so it wasn't the early church favouring crosses over statues.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


At the very least, Justinian could have actually secured Italy up to the Alps, although how much that would change when the Lombards come knocking is a different question.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Grand Fromage posted:

Bunch of neologisms for current times. I think Information Age may survive, I believe computers/internet mark a significant break from what has come before.

All of these can be broken up further by region and are Europe/North Africa/Middle East-centric. There are also other systems.

This just made me realize that in 200 years, if you're right there will be(hopefully) historians arguing about when the information age started, and some people saying directly after WW2, some people putting it In the 1970s with early Internet, 90s with growth if home computing, 2007 with the first smartphones. 20XX with (future tech here) etc

Really wierd to think about how future historians will think of now.

Historians. Historians never change.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Yea, until the late industrial revolution crop yield is the big factor in stability and wellbeing. Gotta eat to live. Until we get industrial fertilisers and mechanised labour, crop yields will still plummet in down years: Potatoes are probably the best choice for that reason, even if expanding the food supply just means population grows bigger before they all die next famine.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


How much electricity could you generate from a water-wheel anyways, instead of a dedicated hydroelectic plant?

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


So from the sounds of it they had a written census record that they knew matched some of the khipu so the guy managed to figure out at least a partial translation of it? Neat: hopefully this will lead to more breakthroughs in understanding the Inca more thoughtly.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Revolutions

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


They've long been exporting lumber - Norwegian pine for the Royal Navy was a thing for a long time, and lesser lumber exports aswell. They've obviously always had fishing, and iron mines in the far north. It's more Norway never really had the population density or urbanization for much industry, so they've mostly been a resource extraction economy which isn't how you become super-rich before oil.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Why did he wany to march through Korea, anyways, instead of landing straight on the Chinese coast at Shandong or something?

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Jack2142 posted:

It is, even if they went through the Sea-Walls not the Theodosian Walls. The Theodosian Walls are just ridiculously impressive, they were built in the early 400's and were never breached until an entirely new technology was invented millenia later.

Do parts of them still stand? I guess the Ottomans kept them around for awhile but historical preservation often loses when it comes to city planning.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Dalael posted:

Apologies for flooding the thread but... I just saw these and they are way too cool to not repost:

Taken from here: https://imgur.com/gallery/MG2u5wc


The ruins of Timgad lie on the slopes of the Aures Massif, about 35 km east of the town of Batna, in modern-day Algeria. Built nearly 2,000 years ago, by the Roman Emperor Trajan, the city is laid out in great precision and is one of the best surviving examples of the grid plan used by the ancient Roman city planners.


At the west end of the town rises this 39 foot high, 3-vaulted arch which was composed at the beginning of the Decumanus Maximus and the end of the road coming from Lambaesis.


The city’s original design was a perfect square, 355 meters long on each side, with an orthogonal design highlighted by the decumanus maximus (east-west-oriented street) and the cardo (north–south-oriented street) lined by a partially restored Corinthian colonnade. The plan was to provide space for 15,000 residents, but the city quickly outgrew that number and spilled beyond the orthogonal grid in a more loosely but organized fashion. The city grew for the next 300 years as new quarters were added to the original ground plan leading to a quadrupling of the original size.


The city was originally founded as a military colony, intended to serve as a bastion against the Berbers in the nearby Aures Mountains. It’s original residents were largely Parthian veterans of the Roman army who were granted lands in return for years of service.


The high central arch permitted the passage of vehicles that have left deep ruts in the ground under the archway. The lateral arches, each 12.3 feet high, were reserved for pedestrians. Trajan’s Arch was partially restored in 1900.


During its second and third century, the city enjoyed a peaceful existence. Perfectly located at the head of the Oued el-Abiod and a crucial junction, it gave Romans control of one of the main passes through the Aurès Mountains, and therefore of access to and from the Sahara. Starting from the 3rd century, it became a center of Christian activity, and a Donatist center in the 4th century. Timgad fell into decline after the Vandal invasion in the 5th century and the subsequent sacking by Berbers. The city was revived in the 6th century under the Byzantine Emperor Justinian. A fortress was built outside the original town and many blocks from earlier Roman buildings were reused. But the city fell once again to an Arab invasion in the 7th century. The site was finally abandoned in the 8th century. The city was forgotten until it was excavated from under the sand in 1881.


There a temple dedicated to Jupiter that is of approximately the same dimensions as the Pantheon in Rome. A large Byzantine citadel stands to the southeast of the city. There is also a 3,500-seat theater in good condition, a library, a basilica and four public bath houses. The whole archaeological site of Timgad has been listed as a World Heritage Site by UNESCO since 1982.




Just beautiful!

drat neat, another one on the list of ancient sites I really should see one day.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


One way Romanesqe looking at it is that democracy allows for peaceful transfers of power between the elite/political class (see Roman patricians). You have a fair shot of winning an election if you want power, and losing is alot less painful. Of course, when power starts to be transferred to the socalists (or the Gracchi brothers) you throw a fuss, but if the institutions mediating your elite power struggles are powerful enough they overrule you and democracy still happens. Or they get couped, but after opening up the armed force box you can't go back to the same method of settling elite disputes.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Yea, if you buy a Vatican ticket online you get to skip a huge queue abf head in.

The Vatican also has s surprisingly large Egyptian collection, and the hall of maps which is amazing and everyone just walks through it. The Sistine Chapel is kinda poo poo though.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Most kf those are probably romantic or semi-sexual yea - these days only 45% of American under 24s report losing their virginity in high school (its dropped about 15% last 10 years - I blame the Internet)

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


aphid_licker posted:

It surprised me that there was no single dot in pink and blue with a number under it representing the people who did not report any contacts so maybe this only shows people who reported at least one contact, however contact was defined. Even if this tracks romantic nonsexual contacts there should be a couple people who reported nothing.

e: it's irritating me that I'm willing to waste time on idle speculation like this but not on digging up the study to actually clear up the issue, which should take like 60 seconds on Google scholar

http://www.soc.duke.edu/~jmoody77/chains.pdf

Reverse image search is your friend.

They picked a rural high school where the kids had nothing to do but get drunk with each other outside school, and paid them $20 to take part, so they got a 90% response rate. And yea, they say that only 60% students report being sexually active, and 25% reported no romantic or sexual contacts.

Nothingtoseehere fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Apr 30, 2019

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


What might have happened is population growth (or currency usaging growth) grew faster than bronze production did - If there's more demand for money but the production is flat, then you'll get inflation, and the price can inflate away from value as a tool. Does seem weird though.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


I am both amazed at how much we can discover from just archaeology and annoyed we dont know more. I can't think of any long run cannibalistic cultures, although I am sure others have examples.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


You need money for any of these technologies anyways- stuff like glassware or precision metalwork has only got cheaper over time. there's a reason distilling is always suggested as the first invention to make money, although where you'd get equipment to set up a still is another matter.

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Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


HEY GUNS posted:

in paris i am p sure you'd be crammed into a lovely apartment though? i don't know about altdorf (wallenstein's alma mater, until he was kicked out)

Probably. Oxford and Cambridge held a royal monopoly on university education in England till the 19th century, so they developed infrastructure of student residences in colleges since every rich son moved to Oxbridge and they had vague standards. Provincial universities popped up everywhere in Europe however, so local rich didn't move as far and such less explicit infrastructure existed to house students. You'd probably be a lodger in someone elses house/lovely apartment aswell.

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