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Wow... I had never realised by joining his forum that I would find so much knowledge about Rome. Must have read over 40 pages already, my eyes burn. I've always wondered why the Domus Aurea was buried. To me, it makes no sense to bury a palace after all the hardship and cost of building it, no matter how much the emperor had hosed up and even considering how much real estate it took. Wouldn't they have been able to use it in other ways than as foundations for other buildings?
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Oct 16, 2014 00:51
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nutranurse posted:I'll never forgive the Copts for burning down the Library of Alexandria. I've read somewhere that the burning of the librairy was either accidental, or someone misinterpreting orders. Any truth to these claims, or records that explains what happened? It was also my understanding that this had happened when Ceasar took control of Egypt, or around that period. I browsed Wikipedia regarding this, and they speak of 4 events that might be when the librairy was destroyed.
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Oct 18, 2014 04:23
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WoodrowSkillson posted:No way to know for sure, but its totally plausible and probably did happen. The ancient world was not racist in the same way we are now. If a black dude was born in the Empire, he was Roman, and if things worked out right, sure he could be a senator. That's not to claim the Romans were morally superior, they just used different qualities of people to determine who to be discriminatory towards. If there's 2 things I noticed about history, is that it tends to repeat itself, and people do not really change. I am willing to bet, today's racism may not be /that/ different from what it was back then. People may very well have been citizen of the Empire, it doesn't mean that they were accepted by everyone. Just like 2 people of different race/color/whateverdifference may have been born in the same country today yet still hate the other one's race.
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Oct 20, 2014 14:18
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Thwomp posted:
I don't think its the only problem. The fact that christians thought there was only 1 god, and all others were not real was a sure source of tension, in a world in which you had so many different religions tolerating, if not accepting each other.
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Oct 24, 2014 03:19
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Grand Fromage posted:One thing is museums aren't just display cases. The majority of what they do is research work that takes place in those back rooms nobody gets to see. I honestly think this argument makes a lot of sense. There has been so much willful destruction of statues, artifacts, literature, etc.. etc over the the centuries, and even in the last decades. Plenty of countries do not have the resources or will to protect their cultural heritage. Museums allow you to have a deeper connection to an artifact, because you get to see it with your own eyes. Like the OP said, not everyone will have the means to travel to different countries. But almost everyone can afford a trip to a museum once in a while, especially when there is a specific exposition you may be interested in.
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Oct 28, 2014 23:02
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I asked a little while ago, but never received an answer.. I'd like to know more about the Domus Aurea. More precisely, why it was buried. All I've managed to read about it states that it was an embarassement to Nero's successor, so they filled it with earth and used it as foundations to build stuff on top of it. Considering the cost to construct such a palace, the hardship suffered by the people of Rome (its my understanding some aqueducts were redirected to the build site).. I find it hard to believe that 'embarassement' is a good enough reason alone. Would it not have been a better idea to e-use it for other needs, rather than to just bury it? Do we have more information regarding this?
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Nov 1, 2014 05:58
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Grand Fromage posted:Garum is basically fish sauce, still commonly used today. It is awesome, though it's not the sort of thing you just have by itself. Would I be right to assume that they used that much salt due to the taste of food pre-refrigeration? or something along those lines?
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Nov 20, 2014 00:44
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Keep those comming!  Always a blast to read!From my limited knowledge of Rome, it seems to me that once Gaul was pacified, it was a relatively calm province compared to others. I often read about a bunch of rebellions here and there, but Gaul didn't seem to go through that crap nearly as much as other provinces. I assume it has its share of malcontent, but am I right to assume that it was relatively peaceful for a long time?
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Nov 24, 2014 04:22
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Mustang posted:Here's a link to my imgur gallery of pictures from Rome, Pompeii and Ostia Those are beautiful pictures! Very interesting. Wish I could afford to go myself. I was looking at the pictures for the Palatine Hill and it made me realize just how much of a lack of imagination I have. I am completely unable to imagine what it must have looked like before. Do we have any paintings, drawings or anything from history that would allow me to visualise it?
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Dec 8, 2014 01:26
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Kaal posted:Here's a fun little article for you all: I saw a small documentary very recently on the subject. It was pretty interesting. One of the thing explained was that the passage of time made the concrete solidify even more (they used a specific term that I can't remember) basically saying that the older it gets, the better it gets. They also explained that it is less porous(sp?) and water did not damage this type of concrete as much as modern concrete. What the guy was basically saying, was that roman concrete was better in almost every way.
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Dec 18, 2014 22:51
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icantfindaname posted:There's not much you can do to keep streets clean when you have draft animals moving through them and making GBS threads everywhere. They're just going to be dirty, period Probably still cleaner than Montreal's roads
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Dec 19, 2014 02:25
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Grand Fromage posted:Yep! They wouldn't have bothered if it wasn't worth it. The scutum provided an excellent balance of protection, offensive options (remember that shields are also weapons), and cost/ease of construction; it was the best shield of the ancient world. Speaking of Scutum.... Its my understanding that later in the empire's history, they changed the type of shield they were using for smaller ones.... Was that a cost cutting measure or was there a practical reason? Or maybe a change in tactics?
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Dec 23, 2014 15:46
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Rocksicles posted:Just checking in, Dalael told me about this thread. I'm going to start reading from the beginning, see you in a couple of weeks. I've also started to read from the beginning and was completely overwhelmed by the sheer amount of information in this thread. I've had to take multiple breaks and eventually forgot where I was at.  I hope you enjoy this thread. The OP and plenty of other posters have put a lot of effort in this thread and it shows. 
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Dec 26, 2014 15:00
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Oberleutnant posted:Actually there are two questions, and the second one is "On which specific date did the Roman Empire fall?"  Has anyone ever heard of Paul Chiasson's theory that Chinese explorers may have reached Cape Breton in Canada and made a colony? I wonder if there is anything in chinese history that could even hint at such an idea? I recently saw a documentary about this, and I am extremely far from being convinced. However, I do not like to discount anything on the basis that I find it far fetched. Also, anyone knows what is happening with Jim Allen's theories regarding ruins on the altiplano in Bolivia? Has there been any digs or any serious exploration of the area?
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Dec 26, 2014 17:17
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Apparently, it has been confirmed that Chinese explorers have reached and settled a colony somewhere in south africa... Paul Chiasson's theory is that they may have kept going further. From there, following the currents of the Atlantic Ocean, it would be quite possible that they may have ended up in Cape Breton. We know for sure that these currents exists. The idea that someone leaving south africa going west could be swept in those currents and end up in Canada is actually not that far fetched. I personally do not believe the chinese managed this feat tho. As far as I am aware, there is no lore in Canada regarding this. Don't get me wrong. I personally do not believe in this theory, but I find it kind of intriguing. Considering I know practically nothing about chinese history (ancient or modern), I have no idea what ancient China's knowledge of the world looked like. I figured I would bring this subject up and leave it up to debate.
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Dec 26, 2014 17:53
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sullat posted:And the other thing mentioned is a theory that Bolivia is actually Atlantis. That seems... farfetched. That one I do not believe so far fetched and would really like for real archeologist with an open mind to go and take a look at it. Was it Atlantis? I don't know. Was there a great civilization there a long time ago, I have no doubt. For those who have never heard of this, here's a site worth reading. Keep in mind I am very skeptical about these type of things, but after reading the entirety of that site, including all links provided in it, I am convinced there is more than meets the eyes. http://www.atlantisbolivia.org/atlantisboliviapart1.htm (Beware, the site itself looks cheap but it actually is an interesting read, even if it eventually turns out to be all bullshit) All links must be read for this to make any sense. Grab a cup of coffee, sit down and waste a few hours/days reading this. Dalael fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Dec 26, 2014 |
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Dec 26, 2014 17:58
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Arglebargle III posted:On reading hour post, I immediately assumed it was some random nutjob. 10 minutes after googling Paul Chiasson, I'm convinced he's some random nutjob. The roads and walls he cites as evidence are 20th century access roads and fire brakes built by the Nova Scotian government or private companies. For a lot of this stuff the people who built the artifacts Chiasson claims as 15th century Chinese are still alive and living in the area. It's utterly banal 20th century forest management and resource exploration. The most recent "features" of the "site" were constructed 25 years ago. That is pretty much my line of thinking too. But then I remembered L'Anse aux Meadows and how the people who first said there was an old viking settlement there were also considered crazy. Dalael fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Dec 26, 2014 |
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Dec 26, 2014 18:08
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Nintendo Kid posted:No, this part is simple. Plato explicitly made it up as a fictional place within a fictional story that was within another fictional story. No one thought it might have been real until millennia had passed. A lot of people said the same about Troy and a lot of other places in the world. I am not willing to discount it, especially considering the fact that plato describes the place in great details, and the Altiplano actually matched a lot of it.. As I said... I think archeologists need to go to these sites and dig. That is the only way we will know what is actually there. Dalael fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Dec 26, 2014 |
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Dec 26, 2014 18:47
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Grand Fromage posted:Literally no one started being crazy enough to think Atlantis was real until the 1800s. Also Atlantis is an island and Peru is not an island, so it fails the simplest of comparisons immediately. Actually, if you carefully read what Plato said.. He describes the city of atlantis as being next to a volcano, on an island surounded by in a very large rectangular plain crisscrossed with channels which is itself surrounded by mountains, high above the level of the sea, approximately 50 stades from the sea. Atlantis was also the name of the kingdom, which was considered as bigger than Libya and Asia combined. (According to the ancient's version of what Libya an Asia looked like. It was west of the pillar of hercules (now known as gibraltar). The only thing fitting that size, and which is exactly west of that, is South America. People distort the whole thing all the time. For example, people love to say the volcano is what destroyed it, yet Plato does not mention any of it. In fact, according to plato, the city was swallowed by the sea. Mount Popoa on the altiplano is a dead/dormant volcano, which has 3 concentric rings surrounding it. It is located on the largest plain in the world (rectangular in shape), the only one large enough to fit Plato's dimension. Not too far from that mount, is a large lake which is linked to lake Titicaca. The plain is known to have been flooded in the distant past, and that plain is crisscrossed with what looks like remains of ancient channels. The plain is surrounded by mountains, and is close to the ocean. It sounds far fetched that people in such ancient times could have crossed the ocean, but it has been proven multiple times that South American reed ships are actually Ocean worthy and can survive multiple crossings. I could go on about this, but I honestly feel like if you hold any interest for this subject, that site is worth reading. Personally, I leave it up to future archeological digs if ever there are some. Consider one moment, that if the pyramids of Egypt or great wall of China had disappeared, people would most likely not believe that these monumental achievement ever existed. Hell, even today there are still people who think aliens did it. (I'm looking at you, crazy Ancient Alien guy with weird hair) I personally believe that it is not impossible that Atlantis existed. It just sounds like it. But then again, I did not believe in Troy either.
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Dec 26, 2014 19:19
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Yes, but if I tell you that all South Americans are descended from Martians because of the Nazca lines, you would also think I'm crazy and I would still be wrong. Yeah, I really don't put much faith in this guy or his theory. I think its extremely far fetched and the documentary I saw was far from convincing.
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Dec 26, 2014 19:23
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Nintendo Kid posted:No they didn't. People writing in Ancient Greek days at least believed Troy was real too. When Plato wrote about Atlantis within Timaeus and Critias, everyone knew Atlantis was a fake place being used as a rhetorical tool, within the context of a story that a character within the story was telling. You have to remember one thing. People in ancient greece believe troy was real, because they had lived it a few centuries earlier.. However, modern historians discounted it as being a work of fiction. Plato wrote about atlantis and according to his texts, it was already something that had happened thousands of years earlier. Personally, I think Atlantis is plausible but the dates may have been wrong by a long shot.. If Plato was to be believed literally, it would have happened over 9 000 years ago... I think that part of this story is more of a stretch than anything else. Looking at something and saying: This never happened, its a work of fiction, is a bad way to look at history. If people thought like that, no one would be out digging for ancient mythical cities, and a lot of them would not have been found.
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Dec 26, 2014 19:30
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Deteriorata posted:Or Plato just made it all up and people have coincidentally found a spot on Earth that kind of matches it. Kind of matches it? Disinterested posted:Yeah, I think you're more convinced by it than you'd like to admit. I think you've fully bought it. I am convinced yes. But I am not an archeologist, thus what I say or think matters little. Jim Allen is also convinced and has been working on this theory for many years, but he is not an archeologist either. He started the project, brought his idea forward and is now leaving it in the hands of experts to figure it out. I believe that a lot of human history is yet to be discovered and I would be thrilled if Atlantis was real, or at least a civilization that would be the basis for the myth. I realize this image is very hard to read. You can find a bigger, more readable version at the bottom of this page: http://www.atlantisbolivia.org/atlantisboliviapart4.htm Dalael fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Dec 26, 2014 |
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Dec 26, 2014 19:39
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Nintendo Kid posted:Plato wrote about it as a fully fictional place, because he literally made it up out of whole cloth to have a rhetorical enemy for Athens in the context of a story extolling how great Athens was. It is literally fiction. It is exactly as fictional as the settings of any popular fictional franchise today. Atlantis can't be plausible because a single man invented it and that man believed it was fiction when he did so. I am sorry, If I remember correctly, Plato quite literally says in his texts that this information comes from Solomon who, approximately 100 years earlier (give or take one or two decade) had gone to Egypt, and had learned over there of the story of Atlantis from Egyptian priests who found greeks stupid for not knowing their own history. Anyhow, there's no point in debating and arguing about this. There's people who believe in it, and there are people who don't. People will most likely keep searching for it until it is found. And if it never existed, they will most likely keep looking.
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Dec 26, 2014 19:47
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Deteriorata posted:This is absurd. There is no evidence whatsoever that the ancient Greeks had any knowledge of the existence of South America. Assemble any random collection of geographical features and if you look hard enough you can find somewhere on Earth that matches it. Actually, there is only one plain in the world that is large enough to fit that description and it is the altiplano. It also matches all 30+ points described by Plato and is the only place in the world that does.
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Dec 26, 2014 19:50
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So you guys are saying that, even if there was overwhelming evidence of the place actually existing, you guys would choose to dismiss all that because modern scholars believe that it is a fable?
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Dec 26, 2014 19:57
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TLDR: 1: I've read a french translation of Plato's text years ago. 2: Its a good thing to be skeptical, but one must also accept different possibilities 3: There is more than just topological evidence provided by Jim Allen. 4: Greeks/Egyptiens did not go to South America. It would have been the other way around 5: Papyrus ships have successfully crossed the Atlantic ocean using currents and survived multiple storms, proving it would have been possible 6: I made a mistake by saying mount Popoa. Its Pampa Aullagas which is located next to lake Poopo (gimme a break, I read that like 4 or 5 years ago) 7: There's more to my text. I'm running out of time for this TLDR. I apologize and will try to come back later to finish it. Disinterested posted:I'm not saying don't look, but you are approaching the problem uncritically. You do not seem to appreciate what sort of text is being referenced. I have actually read those texts (french translation) when I was in my early 20's. I know which texts are being referred to. Until about 4 years ago, I was quite convinced that Atlantis was simply a myth. Deteriorata posted:The proper stance is to admit that it's possible, but exceptionally unlikely. Vastly more evidence that that is indeed the place Plato had in mind is necessary before it becomes a viable explanation. I agree 100% with what you are saying. It is entirely normal to be skeptical of these like this, and it is as it should be. We can't just accept something like that at face value. Which is why mountains of evidence need to be brought to the table before this theory is accepted. How do you get this evidence? By doing archeological digs which is what I am hoping will happen one day. Unfortunately, when it comes to that, governments invest very little compared to private venture. Which means people must first accept the possibility of something, before they invest money (Archeological digs are NOT cheap) PittTheElder posted:What they're saying is that topological similarity doesn't constitute anything more than circumstantial evidence. And that's being exceptionally generous given that we're relying on turns-of-phrase that have likely been translated a few times. Jim Allen's theory and his own expedition on site brings more than simple topological evidence, but unfortunately no real effort at digging this place up has been made. I really recommend reading the site in your spare time. Even if it turns out to be all bullshit, it is very interesting. I would also say that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. In order words, assuming that Plato made it up is not the only conclusion available. We would not have this discussion otherwise. Although we are not aware of a South American maritime power, we do know that they had ocean worthy reed ships and there are many claims that South American people were trading with Polynesian islands in the Pre-Columbian era. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact#Claims_of_Polynesian_trans-oceanic_contact (I cite here Wikipedia because all references are included at the bottom . Listing them all individually would take too much time). Also, there are groups that have started taking this question more seriously and a few expeditions were mounted to show that it was possible to reach the ocean from the Altiplano. Unfortunately, it is mirred(sp?) in controversy so I won't bother listing them. Tomn posted:Make up any fictional geographical location of any description and set it on Earth, and unless you explicitly say that the mountains spell out the entire text of Hamlet when looked at from above, there will be some place on Earth that fits that description. Geography proves almost nothing. Serious, make up a geographical feature right now, and given enough interested people and Google Earth, they'll turn it up. Unfortunately, everything seems to be buried at the moment. There are more than circumstancial evidence of man-made channels. The Altiplano is completly crisscrossed with what looks like really old man made channels.  More can be seen (and read about) here: http://www.atlantisbolivia.org/atlantisboliviapart2.htm.Although orichalcum walls are not present, there is one of the few orichalcum mine in the world approximately 100 km from the site. Regarding that wall... One of Plato's description was that buildings were built with a combination or red, white and black stones. Near that mountain, you can see remains of such carved blocks, sticky out of what is clearly an ancient mudslide. I will not bother pointing out everything. The site does a good job itself. Again, I recommend you read it if ever you feel like it and are interested in the subject. Jim Allen also has a very comprehensive book regarding this. Base Emitter posted:God drat, look at those goalposts go. That is no way moving the goalpost. I was asking a genuine question. If serious archeologists were to start making those claims and bringing forth evidence, would people admit that it might be a possibility, or stick to their guns and claim that its fictional? Troy was supposed to be fictional and it wasn't. Sodom and Gommora were long thought that it was a tale about morality, yet they were apparently found. A lot of people are starting to rethink the tale of Jason and the Argonauts and admit that it is plausible. Hell, even the story of Moses has some basis of truth. There are moments in which which strong winds are able to part the red sea, and chariot wheels (one being gold plated ) were found at the bottom of the sea. Atlantis is no more of a stretch than any of these stories. Frostwerks posted:What the gently caress is Mt Popoa? Google turns up a Mt Popa, but that poo poo's in Burma. It sure as poo poo isn't in South America. Frostwerks posted:Nvm I'm caught up. Mt Popa looks cool btw. In any case I wouldn't believe a word of his stuff but if such a place where "3 concentric rings surround a dormant volcano" do exist, I would like to see it. Not because of atlantis but because I love odd geography. And in what world is South America due west of Gibraltar? Craziness. I apologize, I made a mistake. The mountain is next to lake Poopo and the site is currently called Pampa Aullagas. There are pictures on that site that shows those rings, but considering there was huge mudslides, large part of them have been filled long ago. Also, if you look at a map of the world, America is west of the straits of Gibraltar. In my eagerness to reply earlier, I said 'straight west' when I should have simply said west. WoodrowSkillson posted:Ok, cool, the Ancient Greeks/Egyptians went all the way to Boliva, and came back. Now, explain how and why: You have to read Plato's text again if you have before. According to his texts, Atlanteans are the ones who tried to invade. not the other way around. The claim is that they showed up in europe at one point. In 1969 and 1970, Thor Heyerdahl a norwegian explorer built papyrus ships such as the ones used in ancient egypt to cross the Atlantic Ocean. He left Morroco in africa and went to America. The first expedition was a failure. After 6440km (over 4000 miles) the RA broke apart after a mistake from the crew. The next year (1970), the same voyage was attempted with the RA II, leaving Morroco and making it all the way to Barbados, proving once and for all that the trip was possible in those times. Libluini posted:I'm sorry, but after I read about Atlantis in South America I laughed so hard I had to stop reading for a while. Lets assume for one second that the text is not fictional. What exactly makes it so laughable that it Atlantis could have been in South America? Description by Plato of the inhabitants of Atlantis match very closely to the people the Spaniards found when they arrived in South America. One of the point Plato brings up, is just how rich Atlantis was and their greed was punished by the gods... Why did the conquistador go back to South America times and times again? The over abundance of gold that could be found in these parts of the world. According to old bolivian legends, there used to be a really wealthy people who's civilization was destroyed by the gods. The tale matches very closely the myth of Atlantis. The "Antis" part of "Atlantis" is a word which belongs to the region and in the Quechua language means "copper", before the Conquest part of the region was called "Antisuyo" meaning "kingdom of the Antis" and Antis is also the name of original natives today found in part of Peru. Deteriorata posted:I sympathize with you Dalael. I fell for several of those Atlantis/Ancient Astronauts things as a teenager. It can grab you pretty hard. Until I read about this theory, I had never believed in the existence of Atlantis. As stated above, about 12 to 14 years ago, I read Plato's text. being someone who doesn't care much about phylosphy, I dismissed those text entirely and put it out of my mind. To me, Atlantis was flase, plain and simple. But 4 years ago or so, I saw a documentary about Jim Allan's theory. My first thought was to dismiss it. To me it was ridiculous. However, I was curious about what at the time I considered a new theory, so I read about it and for the first time in my life, I started doubting my earlier beliefs regarding Atlantis. Today, after spending countless hours reading about the subject and seeing all the evidence brought by Jim Allen, I believe that it is at least possible that the civilization did exist and may as well have been in South America. C'mon guys, I understand and am glad that you do not just take my word for it. That would be foolish. But don't simply dismiss Atlantis as fiction. Open your mind to the possibility, just like so many mythical cities that have now been found. Also, take some time of your life to read that site and all the links provided. Once you have read it and seen the evidence proposed, you can make your own conclusions. After reading it, you might decide that its all hogwash and that would be your right. But at least, you will do so having actually read this side of the argument.
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Dec 26, 2014 23:33
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The guy is a moron who posts too much about video games and bad television, stop responding to him.
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Dec 27, 2014 04:32
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PittTheElder posted:Every other button had been pushed to no effect, might as well push that one too. Seems it didn't help either. Actually no. No other button has been pushed. One of the few arguments that anyone has come up with, was that this is fictional. Saying: ¨people knew back then that it was fictional¨ is not an argument. There is no way to prove it is not true unless Plato explicitely stated that it is not, which he did not. However the dialogues states multiple times that the story is true and Critias even mentions that he still has scrolls from his grandfather. Although this does not by itself prove that it is true, the possibility that it could be must be considered. Many of the cities we have found were considered as myth for a long time. It took people who believed in the tales, to look for them. Sometimes spending most of their lives in their quest. But all started with clues, research, eventually localizing a site and doing archeological digs. It requires tons of evidence to prove theory like these, but it all begins with the belief in its existence. Jim Allen's theory is relatively recent. Something like in the end 90's I think. He has located a site which he believes matches nearly to perfection everything that Plato describes, including the network of canals often described as having unrealistic dimensions . Not just one or two point, but all of them. On the site, is evidence of a past civilization. It could be just coincidence, but then again maybe not. His theory is slowly gaining traction, and considering the extensive range of artifacts he has so far demonstrated, it is quite possible that there will be some archeological digs in the future. To myself:  This thread is about known to be real history so I will stop posting stuff about this subject in here. Tomorrow I'll lurk a bit more in order to see if there already is a thread regarding the subject of Atlantis and will take this discussion there. If there is none, then I might just start one to encourage a discussion about it. Sorry OP for making GBS threads up the thread. Edit: OP asked why would they go out of their way to attack Athens. They did not try to invade Athens. Athens itself did not exists back in those times. I will explain in the thread I find, or make. Dalael fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Dec 27, 2014 |
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Dec 27, 2014 08:25
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Testikles posted:Very interesting First and foremost, thanks for the comprehensive reply. In order to not poo poo up this thread any longer with this subject, I will not make a long reply. When I brought up Jim Allen's theory, I left out some very important detail regarding his theory (in hindsight I should have included). Long story short, Jim Allen believes plato did accurately describe the south american continent (Seriously, the way his description matches the place is uncanny and unreal, and the description of the people and plenty other things also does) But he does not believe that they invaded europe or some poo poo like that. He believes that Plato would have used the South American continent as a location for his story, used some other war to make up his point... I don't want to go in too much details here and will do so in the thread I plan to create. However, I will include links to his 3 academic papers downloadable in pdf for anyone interested. They are not such a long read, are interesting and even if you put the Atlantis idea aside are definitely worth a read considering the very real possibility of a civilization having been there. (There are ruins that have yet to be excavated) First paper: http://www.atlantisbolivia.org/athensfullpaper.pdf 2nd Paper: http://www.atlantisbolivia.org/athensfullpaper2.pdf 3rd Paper: http://www.atlantisbolivia.org/athensfullpaper3.pdf Those were first presented in 2008 at the 2nd International Atlantis Conference in Athens.
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Dec 27, 2014 20:58
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Nintendo Kid posted:Long story short, Jim Allen must have no idea what the South American continent looks like, or has never ever read either of Plato's dialogues concerning Atlantis. Or just maybe, he has read them extensively while you have done so just once in your life? maybe twice? Maybe not even once? And just maybe, the guy worked as an expert in satellite mapping with the British Royal Air Force and is a researcher of ancient measuring systems. Or we could also consider other facts such as him going multiple times in South America, at least 5 on the Altiplano in order to verify the location. We are not talking about a guy who pulled something out of his rear end, made a website and then collected money. We are talking about someone who combined two line of works and a hobby, put his own money where his mouth is and has done serious enough work regarding a subject that plenty of people don't believe in. It may not be Atlantis. but there ARE ruins over there. There IS an extensive network or ancient canels that dwarf the ones in Cambodia, and a long time ago, the water level was high enough for those cannels to be filled. We are talking about an area that is huge. But no one has yet done any serious digs over there yet because of lack of money and possibly  EDIT: Jim Allen is himself no archeologist. He made a theory, showed his evidence and is now hoping that serious archeologist/academics will one day go on site and find out exactly what is there. Edit2: ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:These are not academic papers, they are pseudo-academic nonsense. The "2nd International Atlantis Conference", of which little record on the internet exists besides vague mentions of various theories of where Atlantis was (including Greenland), was obviously a gathering of fools, blitherers, frauds, and whackjobs. If you don't read the papers, you are not arguing in good faith especially if you only take the little I have wrote here as basis to argue against. Its easy to call something non sense if you have not read it and only assume what is in it. Dalael fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Dec 27, 2014 |
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Dec 27, 2014 21:18
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Nintendo Kid posted:He clearly hasn't read them extensively if he thinks a a random plain in the middle of South America matches Atlantis because a few points on it kinda line up, moron. Plato's characters go into great detail about the fictional location, including it explicitly being its own landmass in the ocean. The first part of your post, clearly shows you have never read (or have not understood) the text Critias by Plato. Plato describes the Capital city as being on an island, which itself was located in a rectangular plain surrounded by mountains high above the level of the sea. The plain was crisscrossed by cannels. He also describe how Atlantis was bigger than Asia and Libya together and was formed of 10 kingdoms. Seriously, I don't know why I bother arguing with you since you probably haven't even bothered to read Plato's work and will definitely not bother to read Jim Allen's papers.
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Dec 27, 2014 21:35
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Pellisworth posted:I will happily read and discuss any peer-reviewed academic literature he has produced on the subject. I will try to look for some and add them to the next thread. But it may actually be hard to find. When sending a portfolio of Atlantis in Bolivia evidence to the head of a Cambridge college who was also a leading archaeologist, the material was returned unexamined with the note "Atlantis is a subject in which I have never been interested." Often times, as soon as you mention the word Atlantis, people simply dismiss it. As of right this moment, I cannot verify that claim without contacting Jim Allen, asking him who was the person he sent the package to and then contacting that person. Remember that I am an amateur, in no way an academic and digging through all that information would/will take time considering I am unsure where to start with all this. I also have no connection to Jim Allen and even doubt he would take my call because I want more information to argue with people on an internet comedy forum.
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Dec 27, 2014 21:53
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dupersaurus posted:I know I know, but just out of morbid curiosity... Actually, that is my mistake. The picture I linked are square plots of 10 x 10 stades of 165 ft (1,000 x 1,000 Sumerian cubits) in the Tabasco region of Mexico. I was a bit hasty when I linked this one. The one I should have linked, are at these coordinates: 16 09 12.53S, 68 31 26.31W
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Dec 27, 2014 22:08
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BurningStone posted:Dalael, I realize you're angry right now I apologize if at any point I gave the impression that I was angry. I was simply trying to have a discussion.
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Dec 28, 2014 02:54
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Base Emitter posted:No, you're not trying to have a discussion, you're trying to evangelize. But don't let that stop you typing long hilarious screeds against the oppression of hidebound orthodoxy. You're pushing it. I provided a subject of discussion by asking a question regarding one of the theories about Atlantis. I provided the name of the author of that theory and links to his work and presented some of his evidence. Out of most of the posts I made regarding this, a few of them were simply spent debating the idea that often times, archeological finds are made based on a fictional story and that Plato's Timaeus and Critias dialogues may be no different. Arglebargle III posted:Also just a look at wikipedia will tell you the area around Lake Poopo has been inhabited for 2000 years, so trying to prove signs of habitation there is pretty fruitless. By that logic, we shouldn't have bothered to dig in Egypt or Rome, since it has been inhabited for just as long.
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Dec 28, 2014 06:29
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hailthefish posted:poo poo, guys, we're pushing it! I mean he's pushing it by saying that I'm trying to evengelize Jim Allen or the subject.
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Dec 28, 2014 06:34
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Pornographic Memory posted:
Wouldn't the modern equivalent of this be gerrymandering? EDIT: Did Rome have gerrymandering in a similar fashion as what happens today? Dalael fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Dec 29, 2014 |
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Dec 29, 2014 03:31
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I am extremely bored at work during a night shift and watching the new H2 show called Ancient Impossible. (NOT to be confused with Ancient Aliens or anything like that) From the History site: "Ancient Impossible, the new H2 series, picks up where HISTORY’s long running Ancient Discoveries left off. In this next generation of storytelling, Ancient Impossible reveals how many of today’s technological achievements were actually developed centuries ago. Colossal monuments, impossible feats of engineering and technologies so precise they defy reinvention–the ancient world was far more advanced than we ever imagined. We’ll travel through history to reveal a radically different picture of the past, with innovations so far ahead of their time, they’re still in use today. New science uncovers a lost world more like our own than we ever suspected, and reveals how modern technology has its blueprint in the ancient world." Very interesting. It shows ancient tools, building techniques and other things like that. Worth it for anyone interested. Edit: Some of it seems to be speculation tho.
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Dec 29, 2014 10:18
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Out of curiosity, what does history tells us about the North American continent before columbus? I know there were some civilization here but I am not really aware of ruins, cities and the likes. Somehow, I really doubt they all lived in tents like movies try to depict them. The only major sites I am personally aware of a pretty much all cliff dwellings. Were there major cities that left ruins like on pretty much all other continents? If not, do we have any idea why there isn't?
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Dec 30, 2014 05:18
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Arglebargle III posted:Google Cahokia. And the Aztecs were North American I apologize, I should have been more precise in my request. When I said North America, I was excluding Mexico and the southern part of the US. I meant more in the area of the middle to north US, and Canada. I'm currently reading about the site you mentioned. Its very interesting so far and I had never heard about it. My knowledge of north american history is close to nil. I only know a little bit about the french/anglo colonization period.
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Dec 30, 2014 06:13
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