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honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



I started using rustoleum appliance epoxy paint with excellent results on stuff like cages. Takes 24 hours to dry but seems very resistant to chipping.

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honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



net work error posted:

I got Pilot Super Sports at a good price at Costco so those are on currently. I don't drive much so they have 0 wear on them still. I also have gloves because I too am a sweaty person.
I'll take a look at Ferodos for pads.

Assuming I don't want to be a squeaky braker at all times would the right thing be to swap off/on the street pads before and after the event with the better race ones?

If you don't mind doing that than yes, 100%, swap pads before and after. Wouldn't hurt to have a set of rotors to match the pads too. Mark them LF, RF etc. Then you can go for full race pads without thought to how streetable they are. Having a lot of confidence in your brakes makes track days way more fun. Stock style rotors are fine, no need for drilled or slotted.

Also full race brake pads dust is hell on wheels. Clean them as soon as you get home. You're fine to drive to and from the track in them though.

I'll add my n+1 too for cl, dtc-60s, and the hawk stuff from personal experience. In lighter cars (Hondas) hawks were a good balance, dtcs were better brakes for more downsides, and the cl pads were amazing but horrific for street use. YMMV.

That being said I've got hawk hp+ on my street car now. Once you try better brake pads it's hard to go back.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



Use them as the base for one time fixtures then recycle. Add exhaust tubing for a heavy bottle rocket stand.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



ColdPie posted:

When I head to the track I bring a duffel with engine oil, torque wrench, tire pressure gauge, spare key, snacks, water bottle (I've gone through 2 gal in one day before), sun screen, hat... Maybe other stuff I'm forgetting.

+ A tarp to sit your stuff on / cover it if it rains and a folding chair.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



Is that the one with all the walls tangent to high speed corners?

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



net work error posted:

All being well I should be going to my first PDX this Sunday at Homestead Speedway and I'm pretty excited. Hoping I don't mess it up too bad.

Anyone ever use a racing sim to prepare for a track? It's not that crazy a thing to do right?

It will help you get a solid knowledge of the tracks layout so no corners will be a total surprise but that's about it. Sims only give feedback visually and through the wheel if you have a ffb one. Actually driving on the track will be a much more physical experience.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



speedtek posted:

So anyone in the Midwest who is familiar with Nelson Ledges and the decades of broken promises, they finally got a FULL repave:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrhBpq_YEuk
(not my video, but shows the new surface)


Anyone wanna help me Chumpisize my E30 for next year?

Holy poo poo. I've been on the crew for a lot of enduros there. It will always have a special place in my heart. I'm glad to see them catch a break.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



mekilljoydammit posted:

Just finished an SCCA double weekend crewing for my dad. Just a regional. Super stoked though - best time at Blackhawk Farms before was about 1:26.0, dropped down to a 1:24.5. Still about 3 seconds off from the absolute lab record, but he's within about a second of the non-national-championships-level fast local guys.

Unfortunately, race ended with what I suspect is a burned up caliper piston seal - brakes stopped working, lots of glycol scented steam and the car making puddles on the ground by that wheel makes it not a hard diagnosis. Oh well, one more thing to add to the pre-race checklist.

Fukkin' stoked though. Next event is Road America for him in the middle of August, then I get to run there in September.

... oh yeah, eye opening thing. Talked to a couple running FFR Cobras, normally with NASA but they came out to SCCA. They said that after 40 heat cycles on a set of Toyo RRs, the husband passes it to his wife and she gets another twenty before risking flatspotting. Coming from running Hoosiers... well, given as how I run Midwest Council and can run wider than stock wheels (dad runs SCCA T4 and can't) I'm thinking about picking up some wider wheels and putting wider RRs on. Because holy crap going a season or two on a set of tires would be ridiculously awesome.

I used to crew for some FFR guys, those things are unbelievably gentle on tires. I'm guessing its how much tire they have relative to weighing in around 2400lbs but I could be wrong.

I remember the last year NASA nationals was at mid oh we got more free tires from Toyo contingency than we used. It was awesome.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



Blaise posted:

Well, I'm basically a wreck.

Missed first track event this year bc car wasn't done.

"Its OK its only the first event"

Missed next event bc truck wasn't done.

"Its OK I'll get it done"

Missed event a few weeks later because car was broken due to a freak TO bearing failure. Put it back together. Missed next event bc I was trying to be nice and spend a weekend with the gf. Then realized HOLY poo poo ITS END OF JULY SEASON IS ALMOST OVER.

Then my clutch failed again. I was determined to at least make the last 3 events for the year. Pulled the trans last night, solved problem, went to sign up for VIR.

THIS EVENT IS FULL.

Gonna miss 3 events following that due to 2nd job I picked up specifically to pay for this stuff. That puts us into October.

10 years of putting this off and I find myself living on the east coast with access to a dozen tracks and I totally blew it. I've done 2 events an NJMP and one at Pocono. What a joke of a season.

*climbs into hole until spring*

Contact the organizers. Ask if you can fill any last minute cancellations. It's pretty normal for someone's truck to die the day before and call asking for a refund or rain check. If they have someone to fill the slot everyone wins.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



mekilljoydammit posted:

NCs in T4 are cheaper than NBs in SM I can't help but suspect... or at least we're running an unopened engine that came in a nice cardboard crate from Mazda. Then again my dad's running SCCA regionals and I'm running Midwestern Council and it's not like either of us are in spitting distance of track records; about 2 seconds off for him, 3-4 seconds off the record for me.

SM turned into kind of a monster spending-wise. I remember the valve seat crap from Seca, and god knows what all else they're up to.

I guess it was more of... I don't know, I have a pretty fair idea what roadrace prep costs but wondering how much more affordable doing track day stuff really is.

I always liked how the FFR cars did it with nasa. Dyno at the start of the season sets your minimum weight. You'll also be randomly dynoed mid season so don't lie about it.

Totally removes the benefit of multi thousand dollar "stock" engines.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



True, it won't stop cheating, but it would make having a clearly better power to weight actually be cheating instead of an accepted gray area where you must spend a lot of money to be competitive in a class designed for affordability.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



I love all the stories about the ingenious ways people have cheated in the past. If I remember right didn't f1 teams machine their wastegate to stick at operating temp and I think a rally team made a turbo that would open a second inlet under boost?

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



eriddy posted:

How does autocross compare to doing trackdays? I've done a few dozen trackdays by now and never tried autocross. Is it hard to learn the course? What kinda skills/ability do really good autocross drivers have?

Learning the course is probably the most different skill from track days. You walk it in the morning and have maybe 6 attempts at it total. Getting good at eyeballing a corner and going through it anywhere near the limit on your first pass is tricky and takes practice.

The time to dollar ratio post was correct but I would give even more weight to spending all day in a parking lot for 5-6 minutes of fun.

It is a good intro for new people, fun to take friends to and scare them safely, and a good way to really push a car you're not willing to risk at the track.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



I assume drive to the track and drive home?

Will your car accept a hitch for one of those tiny tire trailers? Most people I know who drive their track car to and from wind up towing their tires and a small tool box with a jack, stands, electric impact, and spare brakes and fluids. Not required day one purchase but may affect it's long term suitability for a double duty track car.

N+1 to Hans needs a harness, harness needs seats and a roll bar.

Oil cooler would probably be a long term help. IDK how your car is setup but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a heat exchanger tying oil and coolant temps together. If it does you'll see lower coolant and oil temps with a dedicated oil cooler. Do you have any way to monitor oil and coolant temps? Even one of those obd2 dongles that talks to your phone would let you know peak temps without any real modifications or large expense.

Firesuit and other gear vs price I can't be much help. What I can say is gforce stuff was very cheap when I needed to do fueling for amateur endurance racing. It sucked. All the time. Heavy stiff and hot. I never caught on fire though so it just sucked all the time. Maybe it was awesome, I'll never know.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



mekilljoydammit posted:

I actually agree with this, though note that there have been shocks that could cope with those sorts of spring rates on Miatas for as long as there's been Miatas. Similarly, 205 DOT-Rs (including SM tires) are faster on wider wheels, and the cars go faster with more power.

My view however is, "so what?"

If one is doing HPDE... last I checked there isn't an HPDE championship, so it seems to me that going down the rabbit hole of open suspension is a lot of money spent with no gain. And, this is going to expose my biases but whatever, when one stops loving around with HPDE and tries W2W, you're not stuck with either A: pulling a bunch of stuff off your car and trying to sell it, B: being a backmarker in a class with people who spent more on their open suspension and every other part of car prep than you did, or C: having 4 people in your run group.

Even if sticking to HPDE and poo poo, wouldn't it be nice to have a nice concrete benchmark for how you're doing? Not "OK, there's this guy that has sort of similar mods but more power and he's faster but this other guy with less mods is slower... uh... hm." but "OK, I'm within 5% of lap record of these guys with cars capable of the same lap times as mine within a couple percent."

But that's me, who spent most of last year wondering why I didn't beg/borrow/steal my way into a W2W ride 10 years ago. Chalk this up to arrogant dickery if you want, but at this point I literally cannot understand why someone would spend an equivalent amount of money doing track days as they would running an SM.

All excellent points. I feel largely the same way too but I have heard one good reason to stay hpde. A friend of mine does hpde and could easily afford to w2w anytime. I asked him why, he told me he was a sore loser. Track days were his vacation / hobby and he knew that if he added competition he would get pissed if he wasn't winning even if he went out and did the best driving of his life. He said it would suck the fun out and be frustrating.

Personally I would have the best time fighting tooth and nail to not be dead last so long as I was racing someone of similar skill. But I can see the other perspective.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



We live in the future.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



Zaphod42 posted:

loving ace, thanks.

E: Yeah this is exactly perfect. Starting with no passing and instructors in cars, moving to passing on straights, then eventually moving to solo driving and passing. That's exactly what I was hoping for.

Also look into the scca. Sports car club of America. I personally like NASA better but those are your two big w2w orgs that do ameture stuff. Also they're volunteer. You can go be a corner worker and get to know some of the people. Or just go to an event and spectate it. Wander around and talk to the people there about their cars, the class they race in etc. Getting to know the people and popular classes in your area will help you pick a car to build.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



Zaphod42 posted:

Interesting! I also kinda like the appeal of working on my own car, but can't say I could complain about skipping most of the hard work. I didn't even consider that, a used racecar. Wouldn't know where to shop for one, but I guess if I start hanging around with the track guys I'll find some options.


I've been going to COTA a lot lately so I'll probably be there, sounds like good times.

Racingjunk.com is a good start. NASA and scca have forums with classified sections. If you see something you're interested in link it in here and we'll pick it apart.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



No tire shine, it's slick and your tires will roll onto it. Bump air pressure up to 40ish psi and if you have a portable pump and gauge bring them. Bring sunscreen and use it. Chair, hat, and drinks too.

They'll make you strip anything loose out of your car. Radar detector, floor mats, etc. They'll also make sure your battery tie down is legit and tight. If it might rain bring a tarp or something to cover everything you'll have to pull out.

Other than that have fun. Don't be afraid to let people know it's your first time and ask for help. Everyone loves to share their hobby. If you ask for a ride and get shot down it probably just means they're to close for comfort timewise to a competitor.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



Yes. Usually serious business cars but you won't be out of place.

Ez up is a great idea. Your neighbors will love you for a seat in the shade.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



I've always seen the hpde stuff as trying to creep up to the limit while autox is about who can guess the limit on the track walk and make it stick.

My first autox in a rwd car is this coming weekend. I haven't been to one in a decade. I'm excited.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



Zaphod42 posted:

I think you run with windows up unless you have a net.

I'm also looking to get a helmet, any good recommendations goons?

I've had a basic bell helmet for years and it's never given me any trouble. Probably need a new one on age alone even if autox doesn't check the dates.

Every hpde or autox I've done has been windows down even without a net.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



Just did my first autox in probably 10+ years. It was amazing. I know why I got out of cars and racing but I'm glad I came back.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



PaintVagrant posted:

Good advice! I’m thinking of rigging up some “walls” to stop air from entering the grill and passing around the outside of the radiator and Fmic. Not sure what material to use though.

Aluminum sheet, rivets, and adhesive backed foam tape always worked well for me.

Cardboard mockup, trace onto aluminum adding tabs/flaps to join, then bend and rivet together.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



I never understood the "serious business track day" crowd. Why ride someone's rear end so hard a lift could wreck you? Close enough for a point by, if they don't see you or care just pit for 30 seconds and enjoy an open track again.

(Not saying track days aren't serious, just that there's no win condition)

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



BloodBag posted:

Took the Miata down to a track for an autocross event near Galveston. First corner of the first run I lost a swaybar endlink on the front and spun out. This run is the fastest I managed that day and put me in 9th place in novice. It finally clicked how to look ahead on a course to find the next cone during this event. Hopefully I can keep the swaybars connected on the next even and be able to carry more speed through the slaloms. Still need to work on smoothing my inputs and looking ahead. I guess I can't figure it all out at once.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JROcTYairlM

bonus wet lap a month ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kijeZnZGrcc

Good God that course is huge. Looks like a blast. They keep it tight enough you're in second gear the whole time or can you go for third?

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



BlackMK4 posted:


How does driving a FWD car with LSD work coming from something RWD? I bought a 2007 Civic Si sedan and I figured I might as well bring it one day since my S2000 RPF1s bolt on.
It has more front grip than I expected and feels like it is probably as quick as the S2000 in a straight line.

If you can get the back to slide you point the wheels where you want to go and apply throttle. More oversteer add more throttle.

I don't know the hot setup on 07 civics but with the older 90-2000 styles the trick was a big rear sway bar and stock or none on the front.

I'm going the other way from hondas to a brz. It took a few rounds of autox to break the habit of adding throttle to counter oversteer.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



Residency Evil posted:

Doing my first autocross tomorrow in my Cayman. Anything I should know for tomorrow?

Check your tire pressures. Probably run stock first time out.

N+1 to water and sunscreen and no loose stuff in the car.

Talk to people and let em know your new. Get a ride with someone who's experienced. Get them to ride with you. We love new people, it's so fun to share this hobby.

Drive as fast as you feel comfortable.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



If it's above the wear bars it will probably be fine. That being said if they're easy to bring the only thing you'll need is the thing you don't have.

Also abs? Flat spots can trash even new tires in an instant.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



BlackMK4 posted:

No one is going to kick you off track for low tread

This lol.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



Is that the whole fee or just a deposit. What's the total if it is?

They'll work on a wet track but not on standing water.

I'd skip sessions that are actively raining. If it stops but isn't dry you could give it a shot.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



I get the frustration of having a low power car and sitting behind someone mid corner, having them point by on exit, and pull away at full throttle.

Or only checking their mirrors on straights so that tiny shrinking civic doesn't need a point by.

So I pit and do the "I want a gap" hand signal and life's good.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



I've had a couple of the cheaper end Bell hemlets and have been tickled pink so far.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



I was surprised how much variation there was even within the same brand.

I'm lucky to have a pro shop within 30 minutes of where I live. It made picking a helmet a piece of cake. He's also got a wall of seats setup so I'll be going back next time I need one of those.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



Did it with a uhaul truck and trailer once. The trailer was not designed for a lowered car but pulling the splitter and bumper let it squeeze on ok.

Otherwise it was fine.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



BlackMK4 posted:

I dyno'd on Tuesday for NASA TT.


If I did the math right I have a NASA 196whp average that I plan to claim as 200whp as a buffer. Last time I weighed my car it was 2840lb with me in it, I was planning to claim 2750lb as a large buffer so I don't have to deal with any bullshit.

This means I have a raw PTW of 13.75.

+0.6 for <266mm section width
+0.0 for tire compound so I can play with some takeoff Hoosier R7s if I want (not likely)
-0.3 for roofline mod because of the Mugen hardtop

This gives me an adjusted PTW of 13.95... so I could make another 30whp average (lol) or drop 450 pounds (lol) and still fit in TT4.

Do my buffers sound right to you guys, or am I cutting it too tight? Can you easily amend your classing sheet mid season, such as in the case of popping the motor and putting a F22C1 into it which makes somewhere around 220whp average?

I'd cut it closer than that if you can. Dynojets seem to be pretty consistent with hp ratings provided their altitude is set correctly. Usually the suprise track dyno would come in lower power from heat soak alone vs 180 deg coolant baseline.

Back when I helped with a NASA car we would run it across the scales after practice and fine tune the weight with extra fuel.

You'll run the risk of getting disqualified if your math is off. Whoops I flew to close to the sun doesn't have the stigma that getting caught at blatant cheating does imho.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



mekilljoydammit posted:

Wow NASA sounds like a pain in the balls.

... let's just ignore what I'm looking at re: SCCA carburetor rules...

Lol.

SCCA always felt like a bunch of lawyers got into racing, and NASA felt like ex-scca folks made their own series with blackjack and hookers.

I think there should be awards and a mention in the rule books that name whoever made a new rule get added. Every class I've ever looked into has had a bit about having only one engine, and that one engine can only power the wheels and accessories necessary to running the engine. There should be a picture of the chaparral 2j and it's story under that rule imho.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



mekilljoydammit posted:

I dunno, the PT/TT points crap is crazy to me.

Honestly I feel like it's sorta... SCCA is big enough for long enough that they settled on policable rule sets (even if arcane) because there's been enough people over the years to poke holes in things. NASA... I just can't pretend I think power/weight is actually policable for an amateur org.

It's not. Anyone who cares enough and has the funds to back it up could cheat their faces off. And get a plastic trophy and maybe some free tires.

If it ever got televised and real sponsors showed up it would be a poo poo show. But for people doing it for the love of the game it's much more flexible than SCCA.

honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



The guys I raced with had those factory five spec cobras. We all parked together and hung out all weekend. If someone car broke we all pitched in to help them get back on track.

Once on track though it was serious competition.

No intentional punting or the like but good close racing was more important than just winning.

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honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009



Residency Evil posted:

I read the OP but still have a question on what path I should take. I've autocrossed the past two years and have thought about getting in to track driving. My local PCA chapter has HPDEs at NJMP as well as Pocono raceway, but I'm wondering if that's the best way of going forward? I currently have a 987 Boxster Spyder, which seems like it's probably the wrong thing to use if I want to get in to racing long term. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty much the definition of a weekend racer. I'm not going to be winning Spec Miata anytime soon, so it seems silly to track something that has expensive consumables until I'm too good for Spec Miata (which I'm assuming will be never).

That being said, I'd like to dip my toes in the water a bit more before buying a Spec Miata and having my wife threaten to divorce me. What's the best way of doing that? Would getting in to something like Chump Car be ok? Is that a decent path for someone who's just starting out? Is there a way to go out with a group that's looking for another body to fill a seat?

+1 for hpde.

Option 2 would be finding a shop that does rentals. Expensive but they bring the prepped car and you just have to show up.

Option 3 would be a school. Similar to option 2. Skip Barber and the mid Ohio school are a couple examples.

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