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I think some of the faster classes of Time Trial require a cage or roll bar. Here is the NASA CCR: http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf Which has just about everything you would want to know about going to track days and time trials and car safety prep in the US.
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Jun 19, 2012 21:21
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| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 18:00 |
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Some good street/track tires: Hankook RS3 Dunlop star spec Advan AD08 Nitto NT05 Federal 595RSR Michelin Pilot super sports If you are new to track days and want a good tire you should have one of the above. Some good DOT treaded R-comps (that will certainly not destroy your suspension): Hankook Ventus TD Nitto NT01 Toyo R888 (actually same compound as nt01) BFG R1 (more of a slick than the others) Unless you are doing TT or Time Attack or something there's no reason to go to a full slick. It's just going to be more expensive- you will go through tires, brakes and wheel bearings much more quickly. While I'm on the subject of tires, if you want to get the most out of them you should have a good tire pressure gauge and a way to measure tread temperature. Have a notebook and record your pressures before every session. After every session record your pressures and the temperature on the inside, center, and outside of the tread. This will help you adjust your alignment and pressures for optimum performance and tire life. For example, if the center of the tread is much hotter, the pressure is too high. if the outside of the tread is much hotter (and it will be) you need more camber and/or stiffer suspension and possibly a bit more pressure. Under hard cornering, the car rolls and the tire rolls over and the outside of the tread does all the work. If you just go out and drive a stock car around you are going to destroy the outside of the tires. So a good start before a track day on an average sedan is to crank the front alignment to max negative camber to keep the tread flatter on the ground while cornering. jamal fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Jun 20, 2012 |
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Jun 20, 2012 02:45
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kimbo305 posted:Don't some cars have pretty good camber gain under load? Yes, some cars, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head that wouldn't benefit from more front camber, and there are very few cars that will let you get even to -2 degrees with the stock adjustment if there is any at all. Double wishbones and multilink suspensions will usually not need as much camber as struts. Even with stiffer suspension and bigger swaybars, a car with strut suspension will need at least -3 degrees to keep the tires happy. Keeping the tires happy will make your car handle better too. The entire tread generates a lot more grip than the outer shoulder and sidewall.
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Jun 20, 2012 06:08
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No I was mostly talking about the front where you usually want to have more camber. It does depend on the drivetrain and weight distribution too, so most regular cars that are front heavy and have struts need a bunch of camber. I'm at -2.5f and -1.1 rear on a Subaru to get even wear and a good handling balance. Something like your corvette which is lower, wider, better balanced, and has decent suspension geometry won't need as much. I would say a big contributor to your tire wear is toe. On the rack I'm sure it is zeroed but there is going to be a good amount of dynamic change from bushing flex.
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Jun 20, 2012 07:27
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If you are in socal looking for a helmet or seat or safety gear Sube Sports in HB has a good selection of stuff you can try on. Simpson and Alpenstars also do yearly open house sale things.kill me now posted:Bushing flex is really another big thing to consider in regards to camber. There is a lot more flex inherent in the stock bushings which will cause you to lose some of your camber under load. This means if you have -2.5 degrees dialed in and have flexy bushings you're probably only really getting an effective camber of -1.75 or so. If you have a dedicated track car then new bushings are something you should really think about installing. Actually every bushing on my car has been replaced with stiffer urethane including the stock front top hats which are even offset to give me more camber and caster. So things stay in a much better spot under load. On the subject of bushings, if you are putting together a track only car, it is not a bad idea to go with spherical bearings in suspension components. If you are driving the car around on the street, it is a good idea to stay far, far, away from them and either use stiffer rubber or urethane. Bearings don't last long and make a lot of noise on the street.
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Jun 20, 2012 19:31
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Admirable Gusto posted:Other than the obvious increase in NVH and the cost, are there any reliability or other drawbacks to using stiffer bushings on the street? What happens when spherical bearings start to go; does that make the car undrivable? No not really. You have to re-lube them occasionally, and there are some things that are better in rubber than poly, but I have gradually gone to poly over the last couple years and the only thing I've had to do is re-lube the swaybar bushings once because they'd squeak over speedbumps. My set of rear bushings is really hard at shore 95A and they are also graphite impregnated which means much lower maintenance. They look so good it's a shame you can't see them: Spherical bearings will eventually corrode and get junk in them and make a ton of noise. That noise is also play in the suspension. Worst case scenario the bearing can seize and break whatever it's in. I see that a lot with endlinks.
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Jun 21, 2012 03:14
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blk96gt posted:Anyone have a recommendation for a good portable air compressor to bring to the track? We had a tank of nitrogen. Handy for adjusting the pressure on the dampers too.
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Jun 21, 2012 19:18
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aventari posted:So maybe it's possible the ducting is overkill, but it's certainly not going to *hurt* anything. While I'm using good pads, the main reason I wanted to do the ducting is that I built this car as a beater track car to let my friends learn on. No, the ducting is a good thing to have. Keeping the brakes as cool as possible means everything lasts longer (not just your pads). Bearings and hubs stay cooler, the boots on ball joint and tie rods don't melt, you don't have to worry about boiling the fluid, rotors don't crack etc. Plus you can use less expensive pads. On a heavy, powerful car, especially with sticky tires, you don't have much of a choice. Even with ducting and huge brakes and race pads things are going to get hot as poo poo. On the subject of your ducts, you could make them a little more effective with a better inlet. Usually you also want to make a little sheetmetal plate that attaches to the upright and guides air to the rotor hat. What are you doing for engine cooling? If this is going to get beat on in the hot summer for multiple sessions you may want to do a few things to keep it cool and lubricated. External oil cooler and an accusump come to mind along with some ducting in and out of the coolers. Or just some speed holes in the hood.
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Jul 6, 2012 21:05
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Well it was supposed to partially be a joke. But here is "jamal's guide to speed holes:" Giving the air somewhere to go after it enters the radiator/coolers is what's important. Normally most of the air comes through the radiator, pressurizes the engine bay, and goes under the car and into the wheel wells. From an aerodynamic point of view, that is a bad thing and creates front end lift at higher speeds. So when someone puts on a super-racing jdm front bumper with a larger opening and a big wing on the back that means you get more drag, a ton of understeer at speed and likely no cooling improvement even though there's more open area at the front of the car. The best places to vent this air out are in the front half or so of the hood and the backs of the fenders. A couple rectangular holes just behind the radiator would probably be helpful if you are having cooling problems, especially with a slight lip in the front to help draw air out. As you near the windshield, the pressure increases, so a cowl "vent" for example is actually letting air into the engine bay and reduces airflow through the coolers. On a tracked Subaru for example it is usually a good idea to go to a front mount IC and ditch the hood scoop. In conclusion cutting holes to let air out: good cutting holes to let air in: bad jamal fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Jul 7, 2012 |
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Jul 6, 2012 23:15
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That's a fast corner too. Entry speeds into there are as fast as turn 1 after the front straight. So for some cars 160+ mph, and at that speed you do have to brake. With a low powered car you are flat all the way around there. Here's a similar incident in our time attack car a couple years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHx2-pvqtfg
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Jul 7, 2012 05:36
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The V12 is not something I would recommend for track use. Especially if you don't have the alignment dialed in for track use and especially if the tires are on the narrow side. Get the alignment right and go a little wider and they'll work better and last longer. Of course, that's true for any tire. One of those cheap little IR temp gauges goes a lot way toward getting the most out of your tires and helping set up the car. Everyone who does track days should be monitoring the tire temperatures and pressures to set up the suspension and get a feel for how the tires respond to pressure differences.
jamal fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 06:15
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Yeah, accusumps are great. It's just a pressurized can of oil that sits just after the pump outlet (usually via a sandwich adapter at the filter). If the pickup starves there is a pressurized source of oil ready to go. We were possibly the fastest wet sump Subaru and never had an oil starvation issue with one of those hooked up. Some interesting stuff here: http://www.lnengineering.com/deepsump.html http://www.lnengineering.com/accusump.html I like the secondary scanvenge pump for the heads. That would be a good idea on Subarus... Hankook RS3 is probably the best value for a street/track tire, and has more grip than anything else in the category. They made that tire pretty much specifically for street tire class time attack. jamal fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 22:04
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SNiPER_Magnum posted:I have a 3700lb 400hp car so it chews through them fairly regularly SNiPER_Magnum posted:Sounds like V12s won't disintegrate on me, so I should be good. Only if you're planning on having 275s or wider.
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Jul 13, 2012 05:27
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The green s2k that passed him at the end did 1:57 that day and an FRS went 2:03. The s2k has some aero work and JRZ suspension, and a good amount of prep while the FRS just has a set of prototype ASTs. Both with stock engines, both on hankook RS3s.
jamal fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Aug 7, 2012 |
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Aug 7, 2012 07:38
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I would not be too worried about a fixed back seat with the stock belts assuming they can actually hold you in place, but yes, I would think it is worse than the oem designed safety system, especially if you have side airbags. The aftermarket "street" reclining seats are better with stock belts though because there is actually room for them to go over the seat. A race bucket has really tall sides so the lap belt doesn't work so well. But yes, if you have harnesses, they should be 5/6-point, and you should have a roll hoop with harness mounts on it. Harness bars and bolting harnesses into the back seat somewhere is very unsafe if you actually crash the car. I would prefer to be in the stock seat and 3-point to a half-assed harness. If you're worried about sliding around and don't want to put in a roll bar get one of those cg-lock things and a street seat with better bolstering. Pretty much every big seat company makes a variety of good seats that would work. Recaro speeds are pretty popular and I really liked the racetech road seat when I sat in it. jamal fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Aug 30, 2012 |
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Aug 30, 2012 06:19
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A 205 R6 has an 8" wide tread, where the average all season in that size is only about 6.5, so it's not actually that much of a stretch.
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Dec 5, 2012 02:19
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Konis/GC hands down. PSS9s are aimed at being street driven, the v-maxx stuff sounds a little too xxxttreeeme for my taste. Edit: oooh! yeah those xidas are nice jamal fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Dec 12, 2012 |
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Dec 12, 2012 05:21
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I don't see anything glaringly bad about the parts on there. Plus I know a little about tracking an S2k.
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Feb 15, 2013 07:52
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I've had some really terrible days at ACS and some really good ones. Worst one was when I stayed up all night getting our EVO ready, almost fell asleep driving to the track, and then it blew up in practice. Best was when I just went to a time attack hang out and a friend of mine rented a party bus after his car blew up. We did some night time 2-car racing on the auto-x course that weekend too.
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Feb 26, 2013 07:40
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Blooot posted:Uhhh yeah? So then can't you figure that poo poo out yourself? At the minimum I would want more camber and better brake pads. Then maybe a set of swaybars. Then some KWs.
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Mar 6, 2013 07:26
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Does that car have front struts? I've been looking around and everyone is using camber plates or modded control arms. Can't you just get an aftermarket bolt or slot the struts?
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Mar 7, 2013 05:12
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Stoptechs are probably the only thing that cheap. Can handle a track day if you have big brakes. A friend of mine used them at streets of willow in his R33 and said they worked well enough. Otherwise you want a DS3000, DTC-60, CL6, etc. jamal fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Mar 7, 2013 |
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Mar 7, 2013 06:07
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For what they cost, you could try them. I consider them kind of like an HP+ combined with an HPS. Doesn't make noise, works when cold, has similar cf and MOT. The Ferodo DS2500 is similar, but more friction and a higher temp rating. Neither are really a track pad though. The CL RC5+ is a great pad that would probably be perfect for you, but they are really expensive. A friend of mine had them on his EVO that saw a ton of track time but was also driven on the street and really liked them. There are even some guys street driving with the RC6 (the most popular CL race pad) although they are pretty harsh on rotors when cold. jamal fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Mar 7, 2013 |
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Mar 7, 2013 21:57
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kimbo305 posted:drat, those are expensive, but they look tempting. I couldn't find OEM fitting pads from Ferodo or StopTech. Tirerack's StopTech pads seem to be only for base C6s. Stoptech makes them 309.11850 front 309.11851 rear And actually it's the same pad front and rear, except the front has two more. neither of my distributors have them in stock so it would take me at least a week to get them. Amazon is probably easier. jamal fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Mar 8, 2013 |
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Mar 8, 2013 00:01
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As long as the car's not unsafe no one cares. Plus usually it's "self tech."
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Apr 7, 2013 03:34
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I actually know a guy that was in a rollover at the track with a cusco bolt in cage and swears up and down that it saved his life. Thing is, the OEM crash structure didn't even deform down far enough to contact the main hoop.
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Apr 7, 2013 08:35
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The funny thing about Takata is that you have to pay even more for FIA/SFI approval. So if you're getting them cheap and need that type of cert for what you're doing make sure they are the right ones.
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Apr 10, 2013 04:43
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That bar doesn't have a diagonal in the main hoop, has no harness mounts, and doesn't go to the floor of the car. So you would need to use the stock belts or a schroth asm 4-point (the only 4-point anyone should ever consider using).
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Apr 25, 2013 20:24
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Diagonals need to be in the main hoop, and they need to go from the base to the opposite corner. That is the minimum requirement for a roll bar in pretty much every piece of motorsports regulation - scca, nasa, rally, fia, etc.
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Apr 25, 2013 22:22
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I actually met some girl who lived near seca, and is into cars, and has driven on the track, and still was bitching about it.
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May 12, 2013 03:11
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Yes, changing camber will usually also change the toe. Toe plates are a good investment, especially if you want to get the alignment dialed in for track use. That way if you add camber bolts or change the camber or hit a curb really hard, or have camber plates with a street and a track setting, you can easily check/zero out the toe. It's just two pieces of aluminum and two measuring tapes and you can even just make your own with plywood. The next things I would recommend are a temperature probe for the tires and a camber gauge. Having the temp gauge gives you actual data to use to set up the alignment and suspension to make the tires last longer and cut lap times.
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Sep 14, 2013 06:39
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It's Saturday only or Sunday too? I'm just outside Toronto but have a thing sat evening.
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Nov 29, 2013 00:57
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Octopus Magic posted:Why do you need >=200? With 180 you can do Advan Neova AD08R or Michelin Pilot Sport Cups which are pretty much the best streetable track tires you can get. Those tires were great 5 years ago but now they suck. He wants RS3s.
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Jan 11, 2014 06:22
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What car and what time attack plans? I'm pretty familiar with rta and gta.
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Jan 11, 2014 08:20
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Cool. Well, I worked on evos and time attack cars for a couple years so if you need any help let me know. email is peter at functionauto.com
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Jan 11, 2014 09:09
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SpaceRangerJoe posted:Amazon prime wins. Thanks. I would consider an r comp if it's track only, but you will need a better alignment and suspension to keep them happy. Bfg r1, ventus TD, r888, nt01, r6 or c51
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Jan 15, 2014 08:02
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Here is a video of my friend driving around the roval if you need some tips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVtdrdP0V1o&t=92s
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Jan 29, 2014 09:25
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Anyone going to chuckwalla for the nasa event this weekend? I'll be there drinking/helping.
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Feb 6, 2014 07:47
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That Subaru driver needs to learn the scandinavian flick.
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Feb 7, 2014 01:40
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| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 18:00 |
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Yeah, in my opinion there is nothing in between all factory safety stuff and roll bar + seat + 5/6 pt + hans. With a 4-point you are more likely to submarine under the harnesses and you are held upright in a roll over.
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Feb 12, 2014 20:46
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