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Class Warcraft
Apr 27, 2006




Its better in more recent games but it still happens occasionally.

Most recently I lost a Shogun 2 multiplayer match because I had dismounted some cavalry to capture a building, and when I tried to re-mount them one guy got stuck on something and couldn't get on his horse, so the entire unit was stuck and would not move even as the enemy came and butchered them.

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Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

NihilCredo posted:

Oh hey, just had a nice ragequit over this so I'm left wondering:

Did later games fix that wonderful AI behaviour where one of your units (usually cavalry) gets a clear order to quickly move away, but they decide to all stick around loitering like an overbearing girlfriend because one soldier (usually in the corner of the formation) is still entangled in combat?

I believe that was solved with the Empire engine.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


tables posted:

Which mods would you recommend for Napoleon? I want to play as a small nation, but tweak vanilla a bit. How does the Napoleon: All in One Mod fair out?

I personally suggest The Rights Of Man.

Also, speaking of weird Empire era stuff remember when your dismounted dragoons would lose a horse to a stray musket or cannon shot and the entire regiment refused to climb back onto their equines in a weird ceremonial display of mourning sort of way?

Spaceman Future!
Feb 9, 2007



Man the late game in Fall of the Samurai is amazing. You could always do a bit of damage with gunpowder but the late game artillery is just loving brutal.

Just finished an AI siege map, took my super elite small army in. 2 cannons, 3 groups of marines, a couple imperial infantry and a massive offshore fleet vs 2500 troops in the second largest castle. Just watching those cannons rip away entire chunks of wall and entire stacks on infantry with them is just awesome. The AI got the bright idea to pull most of its troops back to the center of the castle in a big cluster to try to get away from the cannons, I wiped out 4 stacks of infantry and Calvary with a single offshore barrage and then the rest got stuck in the crossfire of my marines and cannons.

I don't think any of the gunpowder units felt this visceral in the other titles, its really fun. Though I have to be a lot more careful with the naval battles. I didn't notice one of my frigates was about to drift between my ironclad and the corvette it was pummeling, one volley from both sides was all it took to go up in a massive explosion.

Morton Salt Grrl
Sep 2, 2011


I'd love a Rome 2. I can't remember how many times I played the Scythian campaign trying to prevent my cities from bloating and rioting due to squalor, before I finally hit on the tactic of a migration into Pontus as soon as you build a boat.

Supeerme
Sep 13, 2010


Would it be to upload the complete soundtrack of ETW,NTW,RTW and both MTW? Because I just downloaded all the music from youtube and I want to share it.

Mans
Sep 14, 2011

We have the dimension of an empire.


Play it safe and simply post your favorite songs via youtube. I know EB's wonderful music is open to anyone who wants it, not so sure about the official music.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


Speaking of Fall, if you play with the Blood Pack DLC and zoom in on some guys getting shot it seems those chunky 19th century early rifle slugs are quite happily chewing out what appears to masses of rib cage.

Supeerme
Sep 13, 2010


Mans posted:

Play it safe and simply post your favorite songs via youtube. I know EB's wonderful music is open to anyone who wants it, not so sure about the official music.

ok then I play it safe for now.

tables
Jul 7, 2011

tables


SeanBeansShako posted:

I personally suggest The Rights Of Man.

Also, speaking of weird Empire era stuff remember when your dismounted dragoons would lose a horse to a stray musket or cannon shot and the entire regiment refused to climb back onto their equines in a weird ceremonial display of mourning sort of way?

Welp, I installed The Rights of Man and this happened:



Here's the charge!



1 Unit regiments ahoy! But seriously, anyone know what's up with this?

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands


That is the most adorable battle.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


The recent out of the blue DLC packs for NTW has hosed up most of the Napoleon mods. Man I'm not going to envy CA's people during this conference.

Spaceman Future!
Feb 9, 2007




I like how your general routed and then just stood there watching. "Ain't that some poo poo"

tables
Jul 7, 2011

tables


SeanBeansShako posted:

The recent out of the blue DLC packs for NTW has hosed up most of the Napoleon mods. Man I'm not going to envy CA's people during this conference.

Welp, I uninstalled Nappie and got Fall of the Samurai. 20 gig monster and I'm at 17%, but gently caress I want to decimate hordes of samurai with the gatling.

Spaceman Future!
Feb 9, 2007



tables posted:

Welp, I uninstalled Nappie and got Fall of the Samurai. 20 gig monster and I'm at 17%, but gently caress I want to decimate hordes of samurai with the gatling.

The very last fight of my last campaign consisted of my fielding 4 cannons, 2 gatling guns, 3 groups of marines and a general vs an army full of gun levys. Despite me being ridiculously outnumbered 3/4 of the AI's army was dead before they got in range of my marines, then they lost their nerve and tried to route. 13 soldiers lost 2500 killed. Fun way to cap off a long campaign.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


Hold on, play Fall with this mod here. I always think artillery despite being over powered gets the shaft.

Now you can be a traditionalist with slightly used Napoleonic era artilley!

I really hope they don't drop Fall right away after the new project is announced. It is the perfect engine and they have the assets for an American Civil War and other mid to late Victorian era conflicts.

Unless the next game is Colonial Total War or something instead of Rome 2. Money making wise, if they pick Rome 2 they have it made for two more years.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009


I'll be honest, I'd prefer Rome 2 over another gunpower-era game. Hell, a new Rome with the moddibility of RTW and the improvements from the later games would probably get me fired from all the sickies I'd be pulling.

Laterbase
May 18, 2011


Rome 2 would be amazing. I feel that the total war games really shine when it comes to melee combat, I really like a lot of the features and improvements that came with fall of the samurai but I preferred the unit variety in Shogun 2.

High-res war elephants is all I need.

Plavski
Feb 1, 2006

I could be a revolutionary


MadJackMcJack posted:

I'll be honest, I'd prefer Rome 2 over another gunpower-era game. Hell, a new Rome with the moddibility of RTW and the improvements from the later games would probably get me fired from all the sickies I'd be pulling.
To be honest though, any game with the modding capabilities of RTW would be welcome. The current trend of locking everything down needs to be stopped.

Nanako the Narc
Sep 6, 2011



MadJackMcJack posted:

I'll be honest, I'd prefer Rome 2 over another gunpower-era game. Hell, a new Rome with the moddibility of RTW and the improvements from the later games would probably get me fired from all the sickies I'd be pulling.

Going back to old-school Rome timeline would be amazing, especially if they managed to incorporate naval battles as well (Hell yeah, bi/tri/quinque-remes, galleys and other ships duking it out). I'd love it if it were possible to start prior to Alexander conquests, as I liked played Greece but fighting against a billion Macedonia clones in Asia Minor/Palestine/Egypt got a bit repetitive after a while. Also, it would be sweet to be able to play as old school Egypt/Persia/early Romans.

Or at the very least make Rome 2 and do what I said as a 'rise of the samurai'-style expansion.

Morholt
Mar 18, 2006

Contrary to popular belief, tic-tac-toe isn't purely a game of chance.

Gamersgate is having a Total War weekend with sales including a pack of every Total War game ever apart from FotS and for some reason, the original Medieval, for 30$.

Plavski
Feb 1, 2006

I could be a revolutionary


The original Medieval is notorious for its unplayability on modern systems.

physeter
Jan 24, 2006

high five, more dead than alive

Plavski posted:

To be honest though, any game with the modding capabilities of RTW would be welcome. The current trend of locking everything down needs to be stopped.

What is their problem anyway? On TWC, Rome and MTW2 forums are still busy as hell because of modders. I own ~4 copies of Rome and two copies of MTW2 because of mods. Is it really that hard for them to grasp the concept? I just don't get the hostility this one company seems to have. But I don't own a single copy of Empire, Napoleon or Shogun because of it.

cool new Metroid game
Oct 7, 2009

hail satan



Grimey Drawer

The lock-down on modding began when Sega became publisher with Empires onwards, maybe they pressured CA to do it?

I reinstalled Napoleon the other day and am having a blast. I'm really terrible at ship battles though, my Trafalgar ended with the Royal Navy almost completely sunk, I'm alright with single ship on ship or 2v2 but larger battles always end up with me loving up completely. Anyone have any tips on large naval battle tactics?

Plavski
Feb 1, 2006

I could be a revolutionary


physeter posted:

What is their problem anyway? On TWC, Rome and MTW2 forums are still busy as hell because of modders. I own ~4 copies of Rome and two copies of MTW2 because of mods. Is it really that hard for them to grasp the concept? I just don't get the hostility this one company seems to have. But I don't own a single copy of Empire, Napoleon or Shogun because of it.
They claim it's because back in the days of medieval and before, the engine wasn't very complicated and lots of it was in text files and lose dds's. These days the engine is so huge that it's not feasible to have much of it open for one reason or another.

If you step back and think about how sloppy Empire was on release, imagine how bad it would've been if they've spent the time making it moddable.

shalcar
Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Plavski posted:

They claim it's because back in the days of medieval and before, the engine wasn't very complicated and lots of it was in text files and lose dds's. These days the engine is so huge that it's not feasible to have much of it open for one reason or another.

If you step back and think about how sloppy Empire was on release, imagine how bad it would've been if they've spent the time making it moddable.

Yeah, the Warscape engine was an absolute disaster on release and it's taken them years of work to get it to the solid condition it is today.

It's important to note that given the previous history with total war engines (2 games and then a new engine) we are likely to see a new and hopefully more moddable engine with their next game.

Regardless of the fact that Warscape is a disaster to mod (and likely held together with bailing wire in the backend) it would be a real shame to not play Shogun 2 because of it. It's really got the magic of Medieval/Rome with the quality of life improvement you would expect from a modern game. Don't buy the DLC if you have a major objection to it, but Creative Assembly are obviously trying, as they released the Editor recently to enable full map creation and we can hope that this is demonstrating a change for the better.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


So if it WAS Rome Total War 2, would you guys rather have a campaign where you play a selection of senatorial families with a handful of regions in your control or have a nice big detailed semi united Rome at your control when you begin?

I mean, I'd love it either way if the Senate were still dicks with their own army and Rome being an Independent city state you can take when your powerful.

I also hope the Celts get a better representation too. For some insane reason CA really likes half assing Celts and the British/English/Scottish in their games despite being a British studio?

Also, do we want the war dogs back? (answer is sure, why not...).

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt



The pseudofeudal Rome was pretty dumb and reminiscent of Dune more than anything historical, IMO.

Given that mods made playing with a united Rome perfectly enjoyable, I don't see why not allow that. The Senate could still play a role by rewarding / punishing you for you actions, and the internecine strife could be represented in more subtle ways, e.g. generals that 'Feel Unappreciated' could eventually revolt and take a big chunk of the army with them.

Personally I couldn't stand the war dogs, but that's less because of ~~realism~~ than because I'm stupidly sensitive to cute animal suffering. I'm all in favour however of having stuff like the Praetorian Guard be a super-duper elite of Rambos, because that feeling when you finally assemble a doomstack of nothing but top-tier units is one of the greatest TW moments for me.

NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Jun 21, 2012

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


I've always had more fun with a United Rome via mods too. I also wonder if they will consider giving the other nations their own possible Military reforms so the rest of the game isn't just a cake walk after Marius improves the Roman Army.

Plus that civil war was goddamn annoying.

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011


War dogs ought to come back just because sending a full stack of them against a pack of peasant rebels will always be a great and terrifying sight to behold.

Nanako the Narc
Sep 6, 2011



SeanBeansShako posted:

So if it WAS Rome Total War 2, would you guys rather have a campaign where you play a selection of senatorial families with a handful of regions in your control or have a nice big detailed semi united Rome at your control when you begin?

I mean, I'd love it either way if the Senate were still dicks with their own army and Rome being an Independent city state you can take when your powerful.

I also hope the Celts get a better representation too. For some insane reason CA really likes half assing Celts and the British/English/Scottish in their games despite being a British studio?

Also, do we want the war dogs back? (answer is sure, why not...).

Thing is I know that they focus on Rome a lot because it's the titular faction, but a lot of the stuff that they implemented in terms of the family/senate would be just as applicable to other factions. For example, most of the successor states from Alexander's empire had just as much politicking as the senate did, and all the Western tribal factions were just as, if not more, decentralised as the Roman families were; having Rome as a single faction makes perfect sense as we can already play as 'Gaul', 'Britain' or 'Spain'. I'd much rather start as a young Rome (from, say, 400BC), the single city, expand outwards into the Italian peninsula and become a huge empire than deal with the annoying factional fighting that happened a lot in R:TW. The only thing I really liked about the families was the different faction colours (Julii and Scipii looked pretty sweet), and some unique units later on down the line.

Oh and conquering most of France/Spain/Germany while the other houses struggled to get a toe-hold on Greece/lost their Sicilian holdings was irritating as hell.

Also armies composed entirely of war dogs/canine cruise missiles were hilarious and should definitely come back.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


I hope the awful looking Scooby Doo Egyptians don't return though. I would love them to remake the RTW intros at least too. Especially with the same music.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

SeanBeansShako posted:

So if it WAS Rome Total War 2, would you guys rather have a campaign where you play a selection of senatorial families with a handful of regions in your control or have a nice big detailed semi united Rome at your control when you begin?

I mean, I'd love it either way if the Senate were still dicks with their own army and Rome being an Independent city state you can take when your powerful.


I liked the Family system. No, it wasn't historical at all, but in gameplay terms it was a good way of allowing the player to choose a direction to expand in from the center of the map (against 3 different cultures of enemy) without having to worry about constantly fending off attacks from the other directions. It also worked really well to set up the civil war later on.



Actually new thoughts: a Rome game would be the perfect setting for a Napoleon-style campaigns. You play a character (in a dynasty). As that character you get assigned to a province in the Empire and have to govern it, fending off incursions, taxing, and making the region safe. If you conquer your neighbors then you are expected to make them provinces or protectorates of Rome and hand over control of them. As you are moved from province to province (this is how the game throws you at Barbarian armies, then Carthaginian, then Greek), you get to keep your personal treasury and armies.

At some point, you get powerful enough to do a Caesar and take several provinces and hold them for yourself. At that point the civil war triggers and you have to march on Rome, using your provinces as support.

When you win the civil war, then the game transitions to a more traditional Total War fashion and as Emperor you can conquer the map at leisure.

Captain Diarrhoea
Apr 16, 2011


If the Empire bitching's over i apologise, but i installed it for the first time last night having owned it for a while. I'm so disappointed, the scale is awesome and i love the idea of Europe, India and North America all playing a part in the same game. I miss the size from Medieval 2 actually, not that the tighter focus of recent games is a bad thing. Anyway i started as Sweden, began stomping Denmark and the battles were so unengaging i lost all interest. Also the campaign map text was all blurry and none of the rumoured fixes did anything.

On the other hand with Napoleon, well. I never took much interest in that part of history, i liked my choppy medieval games and my tanks and so on but this really helped me visualise how bloody that era was. I like to pause from time to time and just zip around the ground eyeing the combat, the combat often enough being swathes of men walking into rows upon rows of gigantic shotguns.

I've played everything from Medieval 2 onwards now, i'm thinking about going back and picking up Rome to see what all the fuss was about.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


Empire gets slightly better if you suck it up and go in search for either the best they can do for a total conversion mod or a selection of mini mods that at least make things work slightly better for you.

I do say though, it got the scale right at least. Hilariously though that was also what hurt it bad as Napoleon and Shogun 2 are much more focused.

I loving hate Empires Europe though. Nothing says quality like the end game being reached by 1720 because the crowded continent of the modern powers is so small that an entire nation can be invaded and annexed in a year because they only had two cities.

Also, you have the Swiss Guard as DLC yet no Switzerland.

physeter
Jan 24, 2006

high five, more dead than alive

Captain Diarrhoea posted:

I've played everything from Medieval 2 onwards now, i'm thinking about going back and picking up Rome to see what all the fuss was about.

Do it. Honestly the best in MTW2 mods (Stainless Steel) is just a shadow of where RTW went in RTR, EB (never played but obviously well loved) and Roma Surrectum. I'd call it the best modded game in history.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


I was happy with TE, which just united Rome, reskinned everyone to look less dumb and did a few tweaks and balance things.

Oh, it expanded the map quite a bit too.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 9, 2007

Aloy, Despite the Nora


Roma Surrectum is amazing if you are going to play as Rome. Any other faction play EB.

Asehujiko
Apr 6, 2011


If they do Rome 2, I wonder what they'll do to the elephants that are twice as big as other, properly scaled elephants, the flaming pigs that are single use weapons to rout elephants and buildings an order of magnitude larger then they have any reason to be(Imperial Palace says hi!).

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Mans
Sep 14, 2011

We have the dimension of an empire.


And pink-pajama wearing Parthians!

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