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Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010



The Doomhammer posted:

It's odd they'd underperform compared to Heavy Crossbows, unless the heavies have a significant rank advantage. Thunders should have a better range, more ammo, better rate of fire, and slightly more damage. Could just be the heavies were shooting at softer targets though.

Mod talk time, anyone else using Dead Baron's various unit packs? They're pretty neat. Basically adding a diversity of base militia and infantry units instead of the usual super special murder units you get in most unit mods. It seems pretty well balanced for the most part and gives commanders especially some fun new toys to play with

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfi.../?id=2125234984 - Glaive Units
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfi.../?id=2132993283 - Earth & Metal Units
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfi.../?id=2136648177 - Bandit Units
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfi.../?id=2170922731 - Fire & Water Units
Ended up trying these over two campaigns, I really like them!

The Fire & Water pack is a bit overtuned as the Cav unit added is a bit ridiculous I think - the Crossbow Guards are really good as well but they're also quite expensive. Wasn't big on the Bandits pack but I really recommend the other three. They fill out the roster nicely, especially the increased number of mid-tier units for extra options. I really like the mounted Yellow Dragons too!

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The Doomhammer
Feb 14, 2010



The cav erroneously had the melee cavalry innate ranged resistance attached when it wasn't supposed to. That's removed now, so that might help a bit balance-wise.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010



Yeah, I think they still feel a little strong but honestly just having the extra options goes a long way.

Arbite
Nov 4, 2009







Got a key for the TW: Elysium card game. Blech.

Chocobo
Oct 15, 2012


Here comes a new challenger!


Oven Wrangler

I've restarted my legendary Yuan Shu campaign fifteen times. In one of those plays, I had eight people recognizing my legitimacy before turn 30. I am starting to get really good at this diplomacy stuff.

My first dozen restarts I was trying way too hard to get on the offensive and secure some fertile lands, but now I am disbanding armies and chilling for a year or two when I find peace times.

I was initially hating on Rapid Tiger Infantry, but with a commander's run speed and charge speed bonuses they actually do a pretty damned good job of getting on a flank or circling to a devastating rear charge and collapsing enemy lines.

I'm guessing Zhang Xun is a Make Them Unique addition because I don't remember him being there before, but he's pretty solid. Can't wait to get that -15% retinue upkeep bonus when I make him Prime Minister.

I just really, really like Three Kingdoms. I hope to god they learn from it when they make Warhammer 3.

Stanley Tucheetos
May 15, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Chocobo posted:

I've restarted my legendary Yuan Shu campaign fifteen times. In one of those plays, I had eight people recognizing my legitimacy before turn 30. I am starting to get really good at this diplomacy stuff.

My first dozen restarts I was trying way too hard to get on the offensive and secure some fertile lands, but now I am disbanding armies and chilling for a year or two when I find peace times.

I was initially hating on Rapid Tiger Infantry, but with a commander's run speed and charge speed bonuses they actually do a pretty damned good job of getting on a flank or circling to a devastating rear charge and collapsing enemy lines.

I'm guessing Zhang Xun is a Make Them Unique addition because I don't remember him being there before, but he's pretty solid. Can't wait to get that -15% retinue upkeep bonus when I make him Prime Minister.

I just really, really like Three Kingdoms. I hope to god they learn from it when they make Warhammer 3.

The one thing wh3 needs to do is make shock cav more deadly. At least on higher difficulties swordsman can trade even with all but the highest elite shock cav. The melee bonus to ai on legendary essentially forces you into ranged or monster doomstacks. It gets really frustrating when playing a faction like Chaos with limited range abilities and their fantastic melee infantry is now only 5% better than tier 1 or 2 infantry.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010



Zhang Xun is MTU - he's a good general but everyone always seems to dislike him whenever i get hold of him.

Communist Thoughts
Jan 7, 2008

0.000% of Communism has been built.
Evil, child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit eating grin.

All he has managed to do is make himself *sad*.

Instead of building communism, he now builds a precise model of this grotesque, duplicitous world.





Chocobo posted:

I've restarted my legendary Yuan Shu campaign fifteen times. In one of those plays, I had eight people recognizing my legitimacy before turn 30. I am starting to get really good at this diplomacy stuff.


What diplomatic tips have you learned?

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010



Who here is downloading Troy on launch? I do want to give it a try but have never used the EGS.

alex314
Nov 22, 2007


I do, hopefully I can remove EGS app and launch the game through other means.

Captain Beans
Aug 5, 2004

Whar be the beans?

Hair Elf

alex314 posted:

I do, hopefully I can remove EGS app and launch the game through other means.

i wouldn't count on that

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013





Given that it looks of questionable quality, as much as I want to like the game, I'll just wait til it's on steam and hope it's good by then.

Jeb Bush 2012
Apr 4, 2007

A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Eimi posted:

Given that it looks of questionable quality, as much as I want to like the game, I'll just wait til it's on steam and hope it's good by then.

wouldn't it make more sense to get the EGS version for literally zero dollars in that case?

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



Flipswitch posted:

Who here is downloading Troy on launch? I do want to give it a try but have never used the EGS.

When was it launching?

Communist Thoughts
Jan 7, 2008

0.000% of Communism has been built.
Evil, child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit eating grin.

All he has managed to do is make himself *sad*.

Instead of building communism, he now builds a precise model of this grotesque, duplicitous world.





Flipswitch posted:

Who here is downloading Troy on launch? I do want to give it a try but have never used the EGS.

me, i think it looks bad

i'd pay full price for it

Azran
Sep 3, 2012

I am the real hero here.


I think there is GOG Galaxy - EGS integration.

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013





Jeb Bush 2012 posted:

wouldn't it make more sense to get the EGS version for literally zero dollars in that case?

I haven't downloaded EGS yet and this is my stupid hill I will die on.

Beefeater1980
Sep 12, 2008

My God, it's full of Horatios!





Iím not expecting to be too busy around then so will be checking it out.

alex314
Nov 22, 2007


Azran posted:

I think there is GOG Galaxy - EGS integration.

I didn't install EGS yet, but I imagine it just starts EGS to start your game. Just like Steam did with that Ubisoft turd of a store.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010



MiddleOne posted:

When was it launching?
AUG 13-14.

Jeb Bush 2012
Apr 4, 2007

A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Eimi posted:

I haven't downloaded EGS yet and this is my stupid hill I will die on.

it's totally fine and sometimes the free games they give away are good

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.




Eimi posted:

Given that it looks of questionable quality, as much as I want to like the game, I'll just wait til it's on steam and hope it's good by then.

Why not get it while it's free and then wait?

smug jeebus
Oct 26, 2008


I already got the EGS store because some friends wanted to play MW 5, so I might as well

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013





Chocobo
Oct 15, 2012


Here comes a new challenger!


Oven Wrangler

Communist Thoughts posted:

What diplomatic tips have you learned?
Basically just exploiting the northern alliances. Once my first doomstack is up and running and I've made contact with the factions north of Louyang (and I've started kicking in either Liu Biao or Liu Chong's teeth) they're all eager to sign Non-Agression Pacts. Sign a pact with all of them and ask for money in return, they all like each other so each pact will give you like +20 with each of them. Then go back and sign military access treaties, now that they're all your best friends they should all readily agree that you are the rightful emperor and you can extort more money/money per turn at the same time. You can be a Marquis by turn 20. Everyone is going to start hating you at that point though, and you're going to be fighting on every front.

It really annoys me that supporting legitimacy is a 10 turn thing that has to be constantly refreshed. I'm tempted to search for a cheat mod that makes it a perpetual thing. Getting to that 400/400 legitimacy cap is super easy, but afterwards its kind of a pain in the rear end to find ways to continue extorting people (at least until you find yourselves some fertile land and can just snipe the starving factions).

Chocobo fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jul 25, 2020

reignonyourparade
Nov 15, 2012


Once you've actually gotten to a prestige rank, dropping in prestige doesn't actually drop you out of being marquis or whatnot, so you can basically immediately rush to all the high rank features with legitimacy and then proceed to spend it all down to the second level that doesn't give you public order penalties like the first one.

Chocobo
Oct 15, 2012


Here comes a new challenger!


Oven Wrangler

reignonyourparade posted:

Once you've actually gotten to a prestige rank, dropping in prestige doesn't actually drop you out of being marquis or whatnot, so you can basically immediately rush to all the high rank features with legitimacy and then proceed to spend it all down to the second level that doesn't give you public order penalties like the first one.

Good to know, here I was maintaining the highest rank.

Funky See Funky Do
Aug 20, 2013
STILL TRYING HARD

God I would have loved an historical late bronze age tw game. Troy as fantasy is about as interesting to me as King Arthur or something equally overdone.

Chocobo
Oct 15, 2012


Here comes a new challenger!


Oven Wrangler

I just can't wait for The Heroic Legends of the Three Kingdoms 2: The Official Game of the Movie.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Funky See Funky Do posted:

God I would have loved an historical late bronze age tw game. Troy as fantasy is about as interesting to me as King Arthur or something equally overdone.

See I just wish they picked a lane, purely historical or purely fantasy

splitting the difference is just weird and is how you end up with the Cyclops being Andre the Giant wearing an elephant skull

Xarbala
Feb 13, 2011

Rolling Thunder: War to the Knife, Knife to the Hilt

Why? , that's why.



I couldn't even be arsed to reinstall Origin to play a game I already owned when a Steam release gave its player count a shot in the arm (Titanfall 2), I'm not registering for another service to satisfy morbid curiosity.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Funky See Funky Do posted:

God I would have loved an historical late bronze age tw game. Troy as fantasy is about as interesting to me as King Arthur or something equally overdone.

Yeah, King Arthur is super overdone. A whole two not very good games is far too much for Arthurian content in the strategy game space.

ACValiant
Sep 7, 2005

"Life is not a song, sweetling.
Someday you may learn that, to your sorrow."

AnEdgelord posted:

See I just wish they picked a lane, purely historical or purely fantasy

splitting the difference is just weird and is how you end up with the Cyclops being Andre the Giant wearing an elephant skull

Agreed. They should have just picked fantasy and rolled with it hard. I'm not sure you could do purely historical in that era and get any kind of unit variety. They've run into that issue many times before.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010



Chocobo posted:

Basically just exploiting the northern alliances. Once my first doomstack is up and running and I've made contact with the factions north of Louyang (and I've started kicking in either Liu Biao or Liu Chong's teeth) they're all eager to sign Non-Agression Pacts. Sign a pact with all of them and ask for money in return, they all like each other so each pact will give you like +20 with each of them. Then go back and sign military access treaties, now that they're all your best friends they should all readily agree that you are the rightful emperor and you can extort more money/money per turn at the same time. You can be a Marquis by turn 20. Everyone is going to start hating you at that point though, and you're going to be fighting on every front.

It really annoys me that supporting legitimacy is a 10 turn thing that has to be constantly refreshed. I'm tempted to search for a cheat mod that makes it a perpetual thing. Getting to that 400/400 legitimacy cap is super easy, but afterwards its kind of a pain in the rear end to find ways to continue extorting people (at least until you find yourselves some fertile land and can just snipe the starving factions).
Yuan Shu seems to have a bit of a raw deal, being fairly unlikeable, crappy units and a meh unique building for his resource. MTU gives him 3 extra uniques though which is pretty baller!

Roumba
Jun 29, 2005


Buglord

For Troy, they could have leaned harder into their Romance/Records split idea, but that's like developing 1.75 games instead of 1 so I kind of understand.

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013





ACValiant posted:

Agreed. They should have just picked fantasy and rolled with it hard. I'm not sure you could do purely historical in that era and get any kind of unit variety. They've run into that issue many times before.

With that era you do at least have a spread of cultures to work with. If you do the whole Mediterranean that is. You'd have the Aegean, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, Cypriots, Mitanni, Assyrians, and Babylonians, depending on when exact it's set.

ACValiant
Sep 7, 2005

"Life is not a song, sweetling.
Someday you may learn that, to your sorrow."

Eimi posted:

With that era you do at least have a spread of cultures to work with. If you do the whole Mediterranean that is. You'd have the Aegean, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, Cypriots, Mitanni, Assyrians, and Babylonians, depending on when exact it's set.

Ah you are probably right. I am not a super historian by any means. In my mind I mostly just think of guys with spears fighting other guys with spears with a little mix of swords and chariots.

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013





ACValiant posted:

Ah you are probably right. I am not a super historian by any means. In my mind I mostly just think of guys with spears fighting other guys with spears with a little mix of swords and chariots.

I mean that's the general gist of it, but the whole light/heavy/medium infantry distinction they came up with for Troy could work and some factions favor one or another. I don't know why they would ruin that good concept with poo poo like unflankable/unbreakable but that's CA.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

ACValiant posted:

Ah you are probably right. I am not a super historian by any means. In my mind I mostly just think of guys with spears fighting other guys with spears with a little mix of swords and chariots.

This is kind of the problem with a lot of historical settings really. You didn't really have a lot of ultra-unique tactics being used by different cultures because spears are simple and efficient and most people figured that out pretty quickly. One of the reasons why Shogun has such a fun mix of units is because it exists in a very unique cultural/historical moment where you had a lot of stuff being introduced at once and a bunch of people who were willing to try anything to get the upper hand.

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Chocobo
Oct 15, 2012


Here comes a new challenger!


Oven Wrangler

Flipswitch posted:

Yuan Shu seems to have a bit of a raw deal, being fairly unlikeable, crappy units and a meh unique building for his resource. MTU gives him 3 extra uniques though which is pretty baller!

Zhang Xun is so overpowered as a Prime Minister or adopted Heir. -15% global retinue costs.

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