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Azran
Sep 3, 2012

And what should one do to be remembered?
Fire shot also leaves behind a lingering AoE damage over time zone for a few seconds IIRC

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Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I have three regrets
The first is to be born in Joseon.
It also looks significantly cooler

Theswarms
Dec 20, 2005

Koramei posted:

It also looks significantly cooler

If you don't use fire arrows for night battles you are loving up big time.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Yeah they look extremely cool. Especially with like max rank Qiang archers and its just a constant flaming barrage.

mbt
Aug 13, 2012

shi xie is probably one of the most overpowered factions lol, its a shame it doesnt have any unique units

steamroll the nanman with horses and bows and chill out in your cool jungle home, befriend sun ce who will shield you from everyone else and just gather resources, poking people north or east around sun ce as needed.

then you get three diplomacy treasures equipped and everyone throws themselves at you to be your friend. I vassaled liu bei, gongsun zan, and sun ce on the same turn (~turn 50).

it doesn't matter who emperor is, as long as you are reasonably trustworthy and expanded a bit everyone will be your friend forever.

Communist Thoughts
Jan 7, 2008

Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!


I'm in the process of finding that out myself. He gets access to +15% replenishment super early from his treasure chest which is huge

VietCampo
Aug 24, 2010

Communist Thoughts posted:

In divide et impera rushing is a good strat a lot of times. Really fun as Macedonia.
The Scotland start is hard though.

Basically turn 1 get within range of their city, raise as many mercs and soldiers as you can.
Turn 2 raise any refreshed mercs and attack their city, either take it if you can or encircle it and wait for them to attack (DeI AI is aggressive) if you can't.
Then repeat and snowball until you are satisfied or defeated.

Building priority is the military one (unless you get decent core units already, but barbarians don't) then food and PO.
Try to build food buildings in settlements without a resource and build resource buildings in those.
ultimately you want your capital to have public order, growth, sanitation buildings and one or two military buildings. then i like to focus my minors entirely on cash money and food

Each settlement you get try to raise a general and put him on his own in there, they boost PO and earn exp. The orange line of skills is extremely strong for PO and income. I like to have one of these guys training for war though cause they earn exp fast.
Your military general should patrol stance in the mean time for even more PO. Getting to 100 gives you a giant growth boost.

Elephants are fantastically OP at the moment so head for Libya if you get the chance.

I would recommend the alternate phalanx and hoplites mod. I really like the default formations but the AI can't use them and their battle line will end up pathfinding at right angles through yours and its really annoying.

Sweet, i didn't realize just leaving a general there would boost PO, i just kept garrisoning my stack and losing a poo poo ton. Will have to give a faction that starts with more than 1 settlement, but i've just been starting and quitting with a bunch of the 1 province ones and getting a feel for things.

Captain Beans
Aug 5, 2004

Whar be the beans?
Hair Elf
Shi Xie is a ton of fun and he can get some sweet unique units with the extra unique units mod (which is a pretty cool mod in general).

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2204616037

Funky See Funky Do
Aug 20, 2013
STILL TRYING HARD

ACValiant posted:

Is there a mod out there to give yellow commanders siege weapons? Might be OP but it'd be nice to have an excuse to take them.

Yes there is a mod that does exactly this. Also one that gives ammunition to authority.

ACValiant
Sep 7, 2005

Huh...? Oh, this? Nah, don't worry. Just in the middle of some messy business.
Looks like this is it? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1942027014 Sadly not updated but I will keep an eye on it.

buddhist nudist
May 16, 2019

Koramei posted:

It also looks significantly cooler

Fire Arrows could be objectively worse with no tradeoffs and I'd still use them for this reason.

Half the reason I'd use them in Attila was because you could burn the while city to the ground around you.

Funky See Funky Do
Aug 20, 2013
STILL TRYING HARD

ACValiant posted:

Looks like this is it? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1942027014 Sadly not updated but I will keep an eye on it.

It still works fine. A mod doesn't necessarily need to be updated to work.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Funky See Funky Do posted:

It still works fine. A mod doesn't necessarily need to be updated to work.
I'll have to give this a go. Do you use the ammunition buff mod alongside it?

Funky See Funky Do
Aug 20, 2013
STILL TRYING HARD

Flipswitch posted:

I'll have to give this a go. Do you use the ammunition buff mod alongside it?

I do but it's a bit cheesy because cunning still gives the bonus as well.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Yeah, after giving it a go it makes Commanders really good, I quite like it!

Has anyone here tried Shamoke yet? his mechanics seem to drag him in two different directions and not very fun as a result.

alex314
Nov 22, 2007

I did finish campaign with Shamoke just recently. Ended up in 190 turn grind against Yuan Shao and friends. Early game is tricky as you're exposed from all sides. I did some suboptimal choices with techs that ended causing food issues for a while. It might be an interesting campaign if you want to go diplomatic route, I went with conquest instead.

Kurgarra Queen
Jun 11, 2008

GIVE ME MORE
SUPER BOWL
WINS
This game is great. Meng Huo was a really easy game, and I'm not even particularly good at this yet(first TW I've actually played since Rome). It's really good, even if I am irrationally bothered by Liu Biao's sons being ahistorically old and Shi Xie consistently dying too soon. Obviously, they're probably going to expand the map more: a Xiongnu-focused expansion is basically guaranteed, and expanding the game map into Korea and/or Tibet and adding factions in there also makes sense. The Shanyue in the southeast could stand to be more represented too: historically, it took Wu quite a bit of time and effort to pacify them. They could also stand to convert a few more on-map powers into factions. I had some ideas on that...

-Zhang Lu
Description: Zhang Lu is in Han Zhong and was the founder of the Five Pecks of Rice School, a Daoist philosophy that endured long past his death, and is also *kinda* similar to the Way of Peace. It wouldn't make sense to make him a Yellow Turban faction: he was eventually appointed governor of Han Zhong, and accepted the appointment. He chilled out in Han Zhong until Cao Cao invaded. His brother Zhang Wei died fighting Cao Cao's forces, and Zhang Lu decided to surrender the city without a fight to spare the inhabitants.

Problem - He was really peaceful: he only sort of considered invading Liu Zhang the one time, and gave up on the idea once Liu Bei showed up.

Notable Characters - Zhang Lu, Yan Pu, Zhang Wei. He also seems to have had other brothers and had two sons.

Idea - He's a peaceful take on the Turban factions: Turban officer classes, Turban-style tech-tree, but his unique resource is gained by having high public order and faction support. Being at war, looting or sacking a city, or being dishonorable or wrathful decreases it. He is often credited for increasing the area's agricultural output: his unique resource should give a bonus to food production, and maybe to a few other things(peasantry income, officer satisfaction, reserves, etc.). Zhang Lu would be able to engage in diplomacy with Yellow Turban and Han factions, but might have a (small) opinion malus with the latter.

-Liu Yan
Description - Liu Yan seems to have been an ambitious fellow, as he used his connections to secure a plum appointment where he could build a power-base in peace. He may have had Imperial ambitions: obviously something a proper faction take should run with.

Problem - He dies in ~195 and his son, Liu Zhang, took over. Liu Zhang is well depicted as an especially passive minor faction.

Notable Characters - Liu Yan, Zhang Ren, Zhang Song, Yan Yan(think discount Huang Zhong)

Idea - What if Legitimacy, but also Luck? To keep Liu Yan, you have to keep pushing the envelope, establishing the foundations of your dynasty and getting ready for your coronation, diplomatic fall-out be damned. Keep pace, and you might get to keep your mechanic, because Liu Zhang doesn't deserve a mechanic other than a worse version of Liu Biao's.

-Ze Rong
Description - Some one else in this topic put him forward. Basically, Ze Rong was a bandit, and also responsible for financing what was likely the first Buddhist temple in China.

Notable Characters - Ze Rong

Idea - He would be a bandit with a sweet bandit-Buddhist temple. It wouldn't be until the time of the Tang that the Chinese really started getting their hands on good copies of Buddhist scripture from India, so Ze Rong is just kind of making it up as he goes along. Bandits are cool, this is a slam dunk.

-Zhang Ji(194)
Description - He may not start on-map, but just fudge it. Zhang Ji splintered off of the Li Jue/Guo Si/Yang Feng infighting, died of illness, was succeeded by his nephew Zhang Xiu, who then ended up in Nanyang. He and his advisor Jia Xu were infamously a massive headache for Cao Cao.

Notable characters - Zhang Xiu, Jia Xu, Hu Che Er

Idea - I'm not sure what the unique mechanic would be, honestly.

-The mess of Li Jue/Guo Si(194)
Description: The problem here is that, although Li Jue, Guo Si, and friends managed to drive off Lu Bu and captured and executed Wang Yun after Big Dong and his family were murdered, they almost immediately fell into infighting. Typically, RTK games just have Li Jue as ruler and throw up their hands on trying to make it work out anything like actual history. Li Jue and Guo Si pretty much fought each other right up until Cao Cao murdered both of them, and it was so easy it barely quantifies as a footnote.

Notable characters: Li Jue, Guo Si...maybe Fan Chou is still alive?

Idea - The fun(hard) way to do this is to embrace the power struggle. You want to keep Li Jue and Guo Si away from each others throats, or perhaps finagle some way for one to actually win somewhat cleanly. Don't take too long to sort it out!

Communist Thoughts
Jan 7, 2008

Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!


My last 3 games have all become midgame quagmires where every faction declares on me one after the other, I really need to start proactively seeking diplomacy I guess.

I do like the loop of wars going hot then you either fight them into a crippling peace deal or another front opens up and you throw all your gold and ancillaries at them to momentarily make the east peaceful while you fight in the west or whatever.
It's a bit plate spinny but it's satisfying when you go through like 50 turns of wars and realise you've actually pacified your region finally.
Apart from its general slowness its one of the big issues with divide et impera for Rome 2, factions will NEVER make peace with you, whereas in 3K there's a lot more peace deals and its possible to bankrupt your enemies but also to basically have to bankrupt yourself to get some relief.

My current game as gongsun zan I think my problem was I blitzed yuan Shao but not fast enough to stop him making allies, so everyone is pissed at me for wiping him out. Meanwhile Cao Cao is far to the south but drawing loads of people into wars with me with his sneaky tricks.

Lately I tend to ignore buildings and just concentrate on taking territory as fast as possible then building up once there's a few turns of peace but that ends up biting if you never manage any turns of peace

Might play Kong rong again soon, he is a nice game where you have insane riches and a nice defensible position.

ACValiant
Sep 7, 2005

Huh...? Oh, this? Nah, don't worry. Just in the middle of some messy business.
Yeah my higher difficulty runs become much more difficult if I forget to pony up for some alliances. It's worth it to sacrifice a few weapons/armor to solidify a border.

mbt
Aug 13, 2012

the magic yt stack that appears for kong rong always pissed me off and I never bothered past turn 5 or whatever lol

I've been playing a lot of ma teng and I think I've got it down. Kill the yt then circle back and attack dong until he sends lu bu and company at you. I've never been able to survive that, so I beg for forgiveness and vassal myself to him. You can attack han sui if he betrays you, or just immediately head south and conquer the nanman in a dozen turns. At some point during this dong zhou is going to be severely weakened and you can declare independence then rush the capital. It's a great strategy for learning just how long you can survive with negative income as long as you keep winning.

I never hear of anyone intentionally vasseling themselves but early game on higher difficulty it's a godsend to avoid getting pounded to dust

My one wish is that they would allow you to confederate vassals. Confederate = no trust hit, annex = are you trying to reunite china? gently caress you

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer

ACValiant posted:

Yeah my higher difficulty runs become much more difficult if I forget to pony up for some alliances. It's worth it to sacrifice a few weapons/armor to solidify a border.

This is one thing that 3k gets so much better than Warhammer. In Warhammer there's almost always no point in offering up resources to factions that dislike you, because diplomacy is mostly binary. Either they hate your guts and they won't accept any amount of money for a treaty, or they like you and will likely accept a treaty for a pittance/nothing.

In 3k there is actually political maneuvering and it can make a big strategic difference to trade off items, food, money, whatever in order to secure borders while you are at war with other factions. I like how it's also possible when you dip into negative income that it's possible to keep yourself afloat through various trade deals. It feels right when you fund your new elite units by selling off other resources long enough to capture more territory with them.

In Warhammer, most of this campaign dynamic just isn't there. On the other hand I think the battles and faction diversity is much better. Hopefully Warhammer 3 will take all the best mechanics from 3 kingdoms and Troy. It could potentially be the best Total War game to date.

Communist Thoughts
Jan 7, 2008

Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!


What good mechanics were in troy?
Off the top of my head infantry v infantry seemed slightly better than in warhammer.
The resources system was a neat idea but quite busted, I did like the ability to wage economic warfare by breaking deals though I don't think it was intentional.

After 3k the warhammer battle engine feels really bad imo. Its subjective I know but in 3k I know exactly what to send against other units and they deal loads of damage and rout quickly.
In warhammer it's a big scrum of dozens of diff unit types and the bumper car single models bouncing around retreating and rallying constantly.
The only units that really feel good are gunpowder units or squads of super killy monsters.

I doubt warhammer 3 will incorporate the good stuff from 3k cause it'll still be on the older engine.
Shame cause I think the 3 general system is really good and would own for warhammer.

alex314
Nov 22, 2007

Warhams wouldn't work with complex diplo mechanics of 3k. Or at least they won't work for half of the factions.

Communist Thoughts
Jan 7, 2008

Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!


The diplomacy isn't that complex, plus the only faction that would not do diplomacy is chaos warriors surely. And even they could probably be paid off by delves or skaven

None of the other factions are above paying for peace they just might pretend to be and you should obviously take a big hit to PO or something as dwarves for giving a bunch of treasure to grimgor to gently caress off

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer

Communist Thoughts posted:

What good mechanics were in troy?
Off the top of my head infantry v infantry seemed slightly better than in warhammer.
The resources system was a neat idea but quite busted, I did like the ability to wage economic warfare by breaking deals though I don't think it was intentional.

The resource system could be partially implemented. In Troy there are just too many resources and basically everything except bronze and gold becomes pointless by the mid-game. On the other hand I really like how Troy separated resources used to train and maintain troops from resources used to construct buildings. So I think a better implementation would be to have at most 3 resources per faction, one for soldiers, one for buildings and one for special units. This would also stop deathstacks from being the optimal choice. I also liked how the resource system added a little strategy to who you would attack and why. A bronze shortage would push you in a certain direction, and if you need stone, another. I think there could be a way to introduce this in Warhammer to make certain provinces hotly contested because they are a limited source of the special resource, whatever it ends up being called.

I think it's a huge improvement to game pace when you don't have to choose between having an army, or building up your economy, it's possible to do both at the same time. Often in 3k I find it's not worth investing money in buildings when having a second stack conquering more territory is often more economically efficient.

Also the dynamic General duels in Troy are a better fit for Warhammer than the system in 3k. I think it would significantly improve single entity character combat overall. Then there are a bunch of faction mechanics that would work well in Warhammer, like the Amazon unit upgrading system that would be perfect for Chaos, or Menalus's ability to recruit from allies which would be a perfect fit for Dogs of War or Tilea and also the Empire to a more limited extent(for balance). Those are just a few things off the top of my head.

Also a few of the combat mechanics could be introduced as a way of balancing heavy troops against others. For example, instead of making certain elite troops immune to flanking, like in Troy with Hector's Chosen, they could do the inverse and make most light units resistant to flanking damage and the heavier ones more vulnerable to it. That way light troops would retain flexibility, as you could be more liberal in how you place and charge them, because they wouldn't suffer as much from flanking damage. And your heavy units would be monsters from the front, but you would need to keep their flanks guarded by lighter, more mobile troops to prevent them from being flanked.

Stuff like that.

Dramicus fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Oct 27, 2020

Mr. Crow
May 22, 2008

Snap City mayor for life
Man are the campaigns supposed to be long as poo poo? I'm 65 hours into my first ( second because i restarted the first after accidentally vassalizing myself before i knew what the gently caress i was doing) campaign as cao cao and it still wants me to conquer the entire country? I became emperor maybe 10 hours ago thinking that would be the end and NOPE. Feel like restarting since I've learned so much but also not because I've spent so much time. I have played all the other TW games and this feels like long campaign +

I've currently got the entire world pissed at me and despite the empire to the north hating me i gave them a bunch of territory to go to war with the empire south of me and sign a non aggression pact. However because i didnt really understand diplomacy till halfway through this I've basically permanently hosed myself out of that side of the game now so its just going to be a slog of battles to end it now...


Also is there a mod to give backstory on the legendary characters, via loading screens of what ever? They're basically all faceless characters to me since i know nothing of Chinese history ( though it did cause me to watch a few YouTube videos on the era).


Edit : i thought this was the 3K thread, is it somewhere else?

Mr. Crow fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Oct 28, 2020

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


There is a mod that adds an icon to say if someone is historical so you can look it up and there is another that embeds bios into the characters from a wiki which is really nice. I can't remember what they're called though, sorry. :(

The campaigns can feel a little long at times, I wish 3K had a short campaign option a bit like Troy. They're a lot more focused but can still feel a bit long.

Funky See Funky Do
Aug 20, 2013
STILL TRYING HARD
Am I supposed to get an supplementary mod to go along with MTU? All of the new models are using the generic blank portrait.

Ragingsheep
Nov 7, 2009

Mr. Crow posted:

Man are the campaigns supposed to be long as poo poo? I'm 65 hours into my first ( second because i restarted the first after accidentally vassalizing myself before i knew what the gently caress i was doing) campaign as cao cao and it still wants me to conquer the entire country? I became emperor maybe 10 hours ago thinking that would be the end and NOPE. Feel like restarting since I've learned so much but also not because I've spent so much time. I have played all the other TW games and this feels like long campaign +

I've currently got the entire world pissed at me and despite the empire to the north hating me i gave them a bunch of territory to go to war with the empire south of me and sign a non aggression pact. However because i didnt really understand diplomacy till halfway through this I've basically permanently hosed myself out of that side of the game now so its just going to be a slog of battles to end it now...

There are specific victory conditions (mostly around "hold these provinces either directly or via military allies") that will give you an official victory.

Most TW games end with the player getting to the point where it's just a long slog crushing the remaining factions who don't actually pose a threat anymore and just quitting.

mbt
Aug 13, 2012

Mr. Crow posted:

Man are the campaigns supposed to be long as poo poo? I'm 65 hours into my first ( second because i restarted the first after accidentally vassalizing myself before i knew what the gently caress i was doing) campaign as cao cao and it still wants me to conquer the entire country? I became emperor maybe 10 hours ago thinking that would be the end and NOPE. Feel like restarting since I've learned so much but also not because I've spent so much time. I have played all the other TW games and this feels like long campaign +

I've currently got the entire world pissed at me and despite the empire to the north hating me i gave them a bunch of territory to go to war with the empire south of me and sign a non aggression pact. However because i didnt really understand diplomacy till halfway through this I've basically permanently hosed myself out of that side of the game now so its just going to be a slog of battles to end it now...


Also is there a mod to give backstory on the legendary characters, via loading screens of what ever? They're basically all faceless characters to me since i know nothing of Chinese history ( though it did cause me to watch a few YouTube videos on the era).

once you're emperor just conquer the other emperor seats to win. you can usually just redeploy 3-4 stacks and blast it to oblivion pretty quickly lol

no mod for backstory, play a lot of dynasty warriors or watch the 2010 ROTK series or listen to the podcast 'romance of the three kingdoms' by john zhu (first 13 episodes hits you with 90% of the main players)

The Doomhammer
Feb 14, 2010

There was a character biographies mod, but it hasn't been updated since Furious WIld came out and is no longer compatable, which sucks.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer
lol they are charging for the Troy blood DLC, I called it.

The Chad Jihad
Feb 24, 2007


You called the thing they've done for every blood DLC?

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer

The Chad Jihad posted:

You called the thing they've done for every blood DLC?

Hey, they gave the Britannia one for free. Also I was hoping the free game would come with free blood, but I guess it was too much to ask.

Funky See Funky Do
Aug 20, 2013
STILL TRYING HARD

Dramicus posted:

lol they are charging for the Troy blood DLC, I called it.

Considering that nobody paid for it and nobody is playing it I can't really blame them.

Is anyone here still playing? Does anyone here still even have the epic game store installed?

A Perfect Twist
Aug 15, 2007

"What have I done? I'll have to start again. To forget and to disappear. I'll head north, far-north, to that big question mark, the Northern Territory"

Funky See Funky Do posted:

Considering that nobody paid for it and nobody is playing it I can't really blame them.

Is anyone here still playing? Does anyone here still even have the epic game store installed?

Sort of... yes. I downloaded the game on release date but have never actually played it. I'm a bit time-poor but on the time I did have I played other things (Baldur's Gate 3, 9 Monkeys of Shaolin, etc.)

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


I played like half an amazon campaign and just kind of gave up. Got me to reinstall 3K and play a full campaign of that though. :v:

Troy is just, I want it to be good and it bothers me more than it should that it's missing something. The 5 resources are annoying as hell because the AI is always begging me to trade every turn and I don't know the relative value of things but it seems like it's trying to scam me so it's something that just makes turns take longer. The unit roster is...frustrating, both mythologically and historically. Like I'd want my best guys to be some kind of spearmanii to fit the image of the era, but for most factions they aren't. Tons of swords, way too many for the era, that sort of thing. Myth units are just terrible and done in such a way I'd rather we just got historical. One big "badass" general sucks after 3K and unlike warhammer you don't get heroes to compensate. It's in Warhammers engine, which I can't hold too against it, but 3K just improves a lot, from colours popping more to units moving better it seems.

Also another minor nitpick but the Amazon's splitting the difference between a 'heroic' aesthetic like Hippolyata's armor, Scythian for most of their units and Penthesilea, and then some seem more out of the warhammer amazon book with furs and a very 'tribal' look just was so out of place. Pick one and stick with it. Like their generic heroes felt really bad and looks entirely out of place for the units they commanded. Also splitting the Amazon roster how they did is annoying. I will say I really liked the concept of upgrading your base units into better ones, that was compelling at least.

mbt
Aug 13, 2012

Troy has a way more intimidating ui than 3k or wh2, every time I load it up I get overwhelmed by the new and weird mechanics (of which there are many) and retreat to the sanctity of my luoyang thunderdome. I can only imagine what completely new total war players feel when they load it, probably what people who jump into hearts of iron or dwarf fortress feel not knowing what they really are. They see cool armies and think its sorta like starcraft and get bombarded with a dozen plates to spin right from the start

Captain Beans
Aug 5, 2004

Whar be the beans?
Hair Elf

Funky See Funky Do posted:

Am I supposed to get an supplementary mod to go along with MTU? All of the new models are using the generic blank portrait.

No? Nothing should be blank at all. MTU is stand alone. What other mods are you using?

Can you post a screenshot of what you are seeing happen?

Captain Beans fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Oct 30, 2020

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Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer

Funky See Funky Do posted:

Considering that nobody paid for it and nobody is playing it I can't really blame them.

Is anyone here still playing? Does anyone here still even have the epic game store installed?

I've just started playing again after not playing it for almost 3 months. It's alright, I guess I'll do one full campaign with Hector or something, but it doesn't have the same draw that 3k or Warhammer does.

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