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Smiling Knight
May 31, 2011



Edgar Allen Ho posted:

I'm the king of Pergamon and I say it's in fact the correct course of action

(the king of Pergamon gave his state to Rome in his will)

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Pennsylvanian
May 22, 2010


Low hanging fruit, but the other achievement names are pretty great, too:

boo boo bear
Oct 1, 2009


Third World Reagan posted:

Egypt screaming, take all of my money and my property. In return I demand you forgive me for past sins that never happened.

past sins that never happened are a perfect justification for another one of rome's 'defensive wars'.

giving up your lands and titles seems the smart play.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Did the Romans ever try to use their supposed descent from the Trojans as justification for invading Greece?

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013





Dramicus posted:

Did the Romans ever try to use their supposed descent from the Trojans as justification for invading Greece?

To my knowledge no, the actual justification was that they were liberating Hellas from the tyrannical rule of the Macedonians. It just so happened that they kept needing Roman protection afterwards. Strange that.

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 17, 2007

surfin usa

got excited for the Rome remaster and started playing a campaign for about an hour and... this sucks. It's fundamentally still a game from 15 years ago. I mean, I knew that going into it, but I thought it would be fun to play it again because it look shinier. Nope.

Hopefully it'll be good with some mods but so far all the things that annoyed me before outweigh the shiny new stuff.

Meyers-Briggs Testicle
Aug 13, 2012



Dramicus posted:

Did the Romans ever try to use their supposed descent from the Trojans as justification for invading Greece?

They have things I want, qed

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

boo boo bear posted:

past sins that never happened are a perfect justification for another one of rome's 'defensive wars'.

giving up your lands and titles seems the smart play.

Except in rome total war it is a bug where they just give you all of their land in exchange for them giving you all of their money.

They give you all of their land at the cost of all of their money.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Eimi posted:

It just so happened that they kept needing Roman protection afterwards. Strange that.

Well if they were to leave, the Macedonians would just waltz back in all tyrannosaurus-like. Makes sense to me.


Jamwad Hilder posted:

got excited for the Rome remaster and started playing a campaign for about an hour and... this sucks. It's fundamentally still a game from 15 years ago. I mean, I knew that going into it, but I thought it would be fun to play it again because it look shinier. Nope.

Hopefully it'll be good with some mods but so far all the things that annoyed me before outweigh the shiny new stuff.

I went it with not many expectations and I've been having fun. The game holds up surprisingly well. I'm not quite sure I'm having more fun than with Rome 2, but it's still up in the air. Having to retrain in settlements is a little annoying, but not as bad as I thought it would be. I'm mostly surprised at how the game fits my memory of playing it. Though the addition of modern camera controls has made things way better at least control-wise.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


Dramicus posted:

Did the Romans ever try to use their supposed descent from the Trojans as justification for invading Greece?

Nah Rome in general did not want to control Greece. Have a lot of influence yes but they didnít like conquering people they considered civilized.

Which meant Gaul and Spain were free real estate

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

CharlestheHammer posted:

they didnít like conquering people they considered civilized.

You say this, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but it very much looked liked everyone was free real estate. Greeks, Carthage, Macedon, Selucids, Pontus, Ptolemeic Egypt, etc... I suppose they just needed protection from the Parthians or something.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


Itís complicated. Most of the East was brought into the republic during Pompeys campaign which was the result of Mithradates attempts to dominate the area. That was the age where generals were in a personal arms race to puff up their personal glory. No one orders Pompey to do what he did, but he did it for his own personal prestige. The conquests didnít actually matter. The fact he was victorious was.

Even Egypt was allowed client status with Augustus only intergrating it as he feared the power Egypt could wield. Thatís why no Senator could enter Egypt without imperial permission

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort



Yeah there was one legion that was "on campaign" in Anatolia for, I think, over a decade as different generals came along and said no you cant go home, we have to go put down this revolt or beat up that local ruler who didnt pay enough respect to Rome. I think Pompey finally get them home after he just like casually marched from Pontus to south of the Taurus mountains and conquered Syria and Palestine with little effort and it was all just so Pompey had more feathers in his cap, not because Syria needed to be pacified or was an actual threat.

Please note I have baby induced mushbrain so I may be mis-remembering bits here or there but I can definitely agree with the theme of what Charles said w/r/t personal prestige.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


Also most of the East was client kings well into the empire, with integration being a very very slow process

CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Apr 30, 2021

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

Yeah there was one legion that was "on campaign" in Anatolia for, I think, over a decade as different generals came along and said no you cant go home, we have to go put down this revolt or beat up that local ruler who didnt pay enough respect to Rome. I think Pompey finally get them home after he just like casually marched from Pontus to south of the Taurus mountains and conquered Syria and Palestine with little effort and it was all just so Pompey had more feathers in his cap, not because Syria needed to be pacified or was an actual threat.

Please note I have baby induced mushbrain so I may be mis-remembering bits here or there but I can definitely agree with the theme of what Charles said w/r/t personal prestige.

Sort of there was some internal politics which resulted in a revolt of the soldiers and a Consul losing command.

Ironically this commander was the one who beat a combined army of Pontus and Armenia outnumbered 4:1 but the collapse of his command means no one cared.

He would go onto to live a life of extravagant bitter opulence in Campania for the rest of his life. Only coming out of retirement to go against Pompey during the weird period of Caesar in Gaul and Crassus death but before the civil war.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Fair enough, I suppose it's possible to see evidence of this policy in the sense that France and Spain are still relatively latinized, even to this day, but that didn't happen to most of the rest of the empire, even under Byzantium. Of course it's a little more complicated than that, what with all the migrations: Anglo-Saxons, Turks, etc. But it still roughly holds true.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


I mean that doesnít mean they didnít have their faults. The Publicani were known in the provinces for their milking with tax farming. And there was a famous case of a consul going to the East to try and reform them but the senate brought him up on corruption charges to protect the publicani.


Hilariously he refused to acknowledge the charges and went to exile in the very province he was accused of milking.

Where he was seen as a hero.

Xander77
Apr 6, 2009

Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.




Ah, now this is the sort of garbage I expect Spiffing Brit to put out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDosnLlxT44

Half an hour on "horse archers are totally OP you guy, this is definitely an exploit"

Pennsylvanian
May 22, 2010


The UI upgrades in Romastered are super welcome, but I miss that sweet-looking diagram for public order.

ShootaBoy
Jan 6, 2010

Anime is Bad.
Except for Pokemon, Valkyria Chronicles and 100% OJ.


Xander77 posted:

Ah, now this is the sort of garbage I expect Spiffing Brit to put out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDosnLlxT44

Half an hour on "horse archers are totally OP you guy, this is definitely an exploit"

You know you don't have to watch his stuff if you hate it so much, right?

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer



Here's an example of the regional recruitment in action. I've got Italian, Gallic, and Carthaginian recruits in this archer unit.

Really cool to see the campaigns of your army reflected in the replenishment of casualties. I hope they find a way to fit that into the next historical TW (it really doesn't make sense for Warhammer).

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011



Iíd like to watch some videos in which the player explains some of their decisions so that I can get good at Total war, any recommendations?

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Jay Rust posted:

Iíd like to watch some videos in which the player explains some of their decisions so that I can get good at Total war, any recommendations?

Serious Trivia does a lot of that, also gives lots of cool historical and cultural details too. He mostly focuses on Three Kingdoms though. Has lots of unit guides for it as well.

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 17, 2007

surfin usa

Dramicus posted:



Here's an example of the regional recruitment in action. I've got Italian, Gallic, and Carthaginian recruits in this archer unit.

Really cool to see the campaigns of your army reflected in the replenishment of casualties. I hope they find a way to fit that into the next historical TW (it really doesn't make sense for Warhammer).

If you mean skin color then yeah, probably doesn't make sense for Warhammer. But I do think they could do something that differentiates your troops based on where they were recruited. It might not make sense for every faction, but you could definitely have state troops from Averland wearing different colors or with slightly different gear than the same state troops from Reikland. There actually used to be mods that did exactly that, but I haven't bothered to check if it's been updated. I think the same could easily be done for at least High Elves, Dark Elves, Dwarfs, Skaven, and Bretonnia.

Honestly they should really just add an army painter option.

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011



Dramicus posted:

Serious Trivia does a lot of that, also gives lots of cool historical and cultural details too. He mostly focuses on Three Kingdoms though. Has lots of unit guides for it as well.

Thank you! Seems great

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Jamwad Hilder posted:

If you mean skin color then yeah, probably doesn't make sense for Warhammer. But I do think they could do something that differentiates your troops based on where they were recruited. It might not make sense for every faction, but you could definitely have state troops from Averland wearing different colors or with slightly different gear than the same state troops from Reikland. There actually used to be mods that did exactly that, but I haven't bothered to check if it's been updated. I think the same could easily be done for at least High Elves, Dark Elves, Dwarfs, Skaven, and Bretonnia.

Honestly they should really just add an army painter option.

I was thinking more along the lines of "invade ulthuan and now you have elves in your halberdier unit" not making sense.

But, yes I agree that having more diversity within factions would be great.

Jabarto
Apr 7, 2007

I could do with your...assistance.


I'm curious, the Rome remaster adds merchant characters, right? Are they like the merchants from Medieval 2? Because those were loving awful and I don't know who would ever want them backported.

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 17, 2007

surfin usa

Jabarto posted:

I'm curious, the Rome remaster adds merchant characters, right? Are they like the merchants from Medieval 2? Because those were loving awful and I don't know who would ever want them backported.

Yeah they have to to sit on special resources and other nations' merchants can come buy them out. Also sometimes they seem to arbitrarily stop collecting the resource for you.

Thom12255
Feb 23, 2013
WHERE THE FUCK IS MY MONEY


Jabarto posted:

I'm curious, the Rome remaster adds merchant characters, right? Are they like the merchants from Medieval 2? Because those were loving awful and I don't know who would ever want them backported.

Eh, the new system they've added lets you just see instantly all the missions they can do in the surrounding regions so it's actually pretty easy to spam them out to everything and see how much money they will make.

Kazzah
Jul 15, 2011

Formerly known as
Krazyface


Hair Elf

Jabarto posted:

I'm curious, the Rome remaster adds merchant characters, right? Are they like the merchants from Medieval 2? Because those were loving awful and I don't know who would ever want them backported.

They are exactly like the M2 merchants, in that unless you kill off half the map they'll constantly get owned by enemy merchants. Also there are now rebel merchants, somehow.

Game's good. The main appeal is playing Rome 1 with a good framerate. There's some annoying stuff in there, like how the game constantly forgets that I want it to fast-forward unit animations, and there's this weird bug where you can't use ALT-movement if you've got a hotgroup selected (sometimes).

The Chad Jihad
Feb 24, 2007




I have twice been offered trade rights by a faction that then attacked me on the same turn.

I'm home

Kazzah
Jul 15, 2011

Formerly known as
Krazyface


Hair Elf

The Seleucid campaign is pretty fun. You basically get dropped straight into the Brutii endgame, struggling to control a huge empire in the east, owning most of the Wonders, locked in a death-struggle with the Greeks, Egyptians, Armenians, Parthians, and Pontics almost from turn 1. Your basic hoplite levies are near-invincible from the front, but their stats are crappy so they get owned in auto-resolve. So it produces a dynamic a lot like Shogun 2: you have to manually fight every battle and carefully manage your spearmanii walls. Most of the factions use mostly Eastern Infantry, which are barely less poo poo than I remember, but their generals can solo your peasant hordes unless you corral them straight into the pikes. I don't know whether the AI is smart or dumb about this, but they keep besieging my towns with armies that aren't strong enough to storm the town, but are strong enough that I have to fight them manually when I sally out.
Anyway, I managed to stabilise the situation, lock down Anatolia, and kill Pontus. Armenia and Parthia peaced out (although they both have armies on my border so I'm not counting on that lasting long). I've pushed the Egyptians back almost into the Sinai. The Brutii just captured Byzantium, so I guess I'm going to have to fight them next, but some of my cities just unlocked Silver Shield pikemen, so I reckon I can handle them.

Temples to Hephaestus feel like cheating.

Military stars are way harder to get in this game than in Medieval 2. However, generals are unbelievably good in combat, so it evens out some.

There's a lot of complaints in the steam reviews about the UI changes. I'm mostly okay with them, although I really wish they'd made it easier to change tax rates. Currently, the screen those are on is this popup that takes up most of the screen, which makes it really hard to see the public order face in the main map. You can see the actual public order percentage, but the face is so much clearer and more immediate.

Genghis Cohen
Jun 29, 2013


Eimi posted:

Though speaking of dudes with spears, it was a shame in Troy that there actually were not enough dudes with spears where top tier units more often had anything but a spear. Look Troy is the one time I actually want 90% various types of spearmanii with different spears, that's the appeal of the setting and what's cool drat it!

I had a great time playing Troy, but yeah, this really bugged me. No one would show up to a bronze age aegean battle without a spear. Two-handed axes? WTF is this bullshit? All part of the anti-spear agenda where 'big sword' with its monopoly on leadership symbolism has played dirty.

On the plus side, that game has great flanking mechanics and as Menelaus I did still manage to use spears for every melee unit. Shielded or Armoured Spearmen as a battle line, Light Spear Runners for flanking/exploitation. All you need really.

Pump it up! Do it!
Oct 3, 2012


Tried Rome remastered and refunded it two hours later, the nostalgia isn't enough and I can't understand why they didn't add some quality of life improvements like units automatically replenishing.

Funky See Funky Do
Aug 20, 2013
STILL TRYING HARD

lol I just checked it out on steam and it's $45 AUD for a 20 year old game.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Jabarto posted:

I'm curious, the Rome remaster adds merchant characters, right? Are they like the merchants from Medieval 2? Because those were loving awful and I don't know who would ever want them backported.

Yes, but it also gives you the option to disable them. You can mix and match whether you want any of the new improvements.

Funky See Funky Do posted:

lol I just checked it out on steam and it's $45 AUD for a 20 year old game.

It's certainly not a great price but it's also half-price if you owned the original.

Funky See Funky Do
Aug 20, 2013
STILL TRYING HARD

Dramicus posted:

Yes, but it also gives you the option to disable them. You can mix and match whether you want any of the new improvements.


It's certainly not a great price but it's also half-price if you owned the original.

I did own the original. On CD-ROM 20 years ago. Where's my discount CA??

The Chad Jihad
Feb 24, 2007




Pump it up! Do it! posted:

Tried Rome remastered and refunded it two hours later, the nostalgia isn't enough and I can't understand why they didn't add some quality of life improvements like units automatically replenishing.

Units in RTW draw from the population of the city they are recruited or retrained from, it would have been a pretty significant mechanical change to add in auto replenishment

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

It's also not that bad, you can retrain something like 16 units in one turn. It just slows down your rate of expansion a bit and gives you a reason to use easily replenished troops over elite ones. You can pretty much always replenish hastati or, later, legionaries, so it gives you a solid reason to use them over praetorians or other elite troops.

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alex314
Nov 22, 2007


Ideal solution would be to have lines of replenishment. There's a trade route between your army and any place where you can recruit the unit - have it regenerate over time, possibly slower based on distance. If your dudes are holed deep in enemy land then just make do with locals and mercenaries.

I'm playing a campaign as one of Roman factions, and it's fine for a relatively quick play, but I don't see myself playing next campaign anytime soon.

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