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Captain Beans posted:How on earth are they going to make a historical game again that people like after Warhammer? I feel like legit the only solution is to release something that everyone has wanted forever which is Medieval 3. Medieval 3 in the same (product) style as Warhammer. Spread it over multiple games, slowly expand the map/list of playable factions, make sure that all the factions in the game are as distinct as they can be. Continue to increase the depth of the strategic layer from the already-excellent 3K. That'd be what I want, at least.
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Jun 4, 2020 03:35
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Arcsquad12 posted:Non EGS topic is that the trailer has none of the energy or tongue in cheek creativity of the Warhammer trailers. It's a very basic intro to the story of the Illiad. The CGI trailer was good but that one is mediocre. And they can make great serious historical trailers. this one in particular is brilliant. No dialogue but you can immediately tell the broad strokes of what is happening. Man is pissed off people are dying while corrupt elite look on, and so he decides to do something about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0qbvmgh23k
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Jun 4, 2020 04:42
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Anno posted:Medieval 3 in the same (product) style as Warhammer. Spread it over multiple games, slowly expand the map/list of playable factions, make sure that all the factions in the game are as distinct as they can be. Continue to increase the depth of the strategic layer from the already-excellent 3K. That's the disadvantage of having a game not in a fantasy universe, the unit diversity can't be as diverse as total warhammer.
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Jun 4, 2020 04:44
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You say that and yet I find the combat in Warhammer incredibly dull. There's so much generic trash running around that the key units you do get (which take forever to get to) don't work for me. 3K starts you off with effective cavalry, artillery and heroes from the get-go which does a lot more with less. If I'd nail things that make total war good it's interesting scripting, unique faction mechanics and non-poo poo map AI. When those lack, Total War is just dots moving into each other and very uninteresting city-building.
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Jun 4, 2020 05:27
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Chopstix posted:That's the disadvantage of having a game not in a fantasy universe, the unit diversity can't be as diverse as total warhammer. Well, when you can't do breadth you do depth. Don't think CA is interested though.
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Jun 4, 2020 06:17
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They aren't gonna make a historical that's as marketable as a fantasy game But yeah imo 3K is a better game mechanically, warhammer combat is kinda bad it's just mosh pits and the odd big units bouncing into eachother and firing animations in the wrong direction. Plus 3K records general cavalry overtake minotaurs in terms of best killy TW unit
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Jun 4, 2020 12:39
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Chopstix posted:That's the disadvantage of having a game not in a fantasy universe, the unit diversity can't be as diverse as total warhammer. Yeah of course not. But they can keep working on making it better. One of their stated goals with Troy is to make a lot of otherwise-similar infantry more unique, so I guess we’ll see how they do with that.
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Jun 4, 2020 12:49
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What I'd love to see for WH3 is to make heavy infantry basically immovable and to easily repel cavalry charges if braced, but for monstrous units to cause a ton of disruption but not necessarily much damage (and what damage they do being very AoE), allowing for cavalry and shock infantry to go to work. This would also let light infantry do well against monstrous units by reducing the AOE damage while still letting them attack, hopefully giving light infantry a reason to exist as defensive units. But anything that brings the joy of 3K shock cavalry charges to WH3 is something I can get behind, because they feel so good while also making heavy spear infantry feel powerful on the defense.
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Jun 4, 2020 13:04
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Anno posted:Yeah of course not. But they can keep working on making it better. One of their stated goals with Troy is to make a lot of otherwise-similar infantry more unique, so I guess we’ll see how they do with that. This will be very interesting to see how they go about accomplishing that. I think the only way is to give infantry more spell like abilities, things like smoke, formations and caltrops from 3k. Otherwise it is pretty boring to differentiate units just based on stats.They should also take a page out of TW:Area and steal that game's system for hoplite phalanx formations where they had a special fatigue bar in formation that decreased as they killed dudes and moved forwards, and recovered as they scooted backward. anything they do until the end of Warhammer 3 is just treading water for their next big money maker, Total War 40k. there is 100% no way they are going to miss that opportunity MiddleOne posted:You say that and yet I find the combat in Warhammer incredibly dull. There's so much generic trash running around that the key units you do get (which take forever to get to) don't work for me. 3K starts you off with effective cavalry, artillery and heroes from the get-go which does a lot more with less. you might like the mod for WH2 that starts all faction capitals at higher building tier so that you (and the AI) can build more cool buildings early, it really helps the AI not build dogshit armies for the first 100 turns. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1193211657 Captain Beans fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Jun 4, 2020 |
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Jun 4, 2020 13:25
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Captain Beans posted:This will be very interesting to see how they go about accomplishing that. I think the only way is to give infantry more spell like abilities, things like smoke, formations and caltrops from 3k. Otherwise it is pretty boring to differentiate units just based on stats.They should also take a page out of TW:Area and steal that game's system for hoplite phalanx formations where they had a special fatigue bar in formation that decreased as they killed dudes and moved forwards, and recovered as they scooted backward. They've given us a few details so far: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/bartering-bronze-and-battles-troy-and-the-bronze-age/ quote:In TROY, we have tried to represent the full variety of weapons that we know existed at the time as well as make some unique functionality for units armed with the large Bronze Age shields. This allows them to sling the shields onto their backs and use their spears two-handed or to just move faster without those huge shields getting in the way.
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Jun 4, 2020 13:39
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A total war without cavalry sounds interesting in terms of how it might shake up the dynamic.
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Jun 4, 2020 16:29
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It’s not hard to do a game that isn’t war hammer, 3 kingdoms does it well enough.
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Jun 4, 2020 16:31
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Troy battle preview videos are up, and unit stats and the info panel is very much in the nice and clear style of Warhammer. That's a relief because even as someone who really enjoys 3k, the unit stats and the info panel for stats in 3k is a incomprehensible mess.
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Jun 4, 2020 16:57
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I'm just utterly baffled how they have mythological units that actually aren't mythological. And hero powers and abilities.
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Jun 4, 2020 17:50
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Their whole "the story behind the myths" thing was always bullshit to me anyway, the Heros and Myth units are for all intents and purposes monstrous units from WH1/2, but they got to save money by not actually making them look like monsters. We got weapon switching and revamped sieges, this is just a crash grab to fund/test features for WH3 basically, and I'm okay with that.
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Jun 4, 2020 18:06
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I've pointed this out on Cody Bonds video about Troy Total War, but weapon switching has kind of been a thing in the past that dropped away. Hoplites and Cavalry units in Rome total war and their counterparts in Medieval 2 could technically swap weapons by using the Alt Attack function that made them put away their spears and sight with shortswords. It's a feature that still kind of exists when you force skirmisher units to go into melee but it doesn't have as tangible an effect, since switching to shortswords gave cavalry a bit more survivability when they got stuck in a melee scrum.
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Jun 4, 2020 18:15
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Fangz posted:A total war without cavalry sounds interesting in terms of how it might shake up the dynamic. Every faction is Dwarfs with Slayers as your flankers, doesn't sound great. Was optimistic for Troy but the video didn't wow me, just looks like watered down Warhammer/3K.
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Jun 4, 2020 18:17
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Blooming Brilliant posted:Every faction is Dwarfs with Slayers as your flankers, doesn't sound great. Is the shooting right over your own troops heads into a unit they're fighting common across all TW games? That and AP Javelins definitely makes 'watered down Warhammer' the right word for it. Still could be fun though.
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Jun 4, 2020 18:24
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"Truth behind the myth", but you get an AoE heal that's functionally a TW:W bound-spell (it's Earthblood, no?) on Achilles. Who is this game for? If you're into the historical games, stuff like the heal will irk you. If you're into TW:W, the kinda' weak takes on "mythology" won't be enough. I think if they'd have committed either way, full on historic Troy saga entry OR their very own Age of Mythology but set during the Trojan war it would have ended up with a much stronger identity. Good on them for getting EG to ensure profitability and fund the testing of features for future games, at any rate.
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Jun 4, 2020 18:48
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yeah this games' refusal to be "age of mythology: total war" is really annoying
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Jun 4, 2020 18:59
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One good thing though seems to be that they're FINALLY trying to get away from the 20+ year old and completely wrong video game version of spears. Hopefully it will carry over into future games and not just be a thing in this one because it has so little cavalry. Anno posted:Medieval 3 in the same (product) style as Warhammer. Spread it over multiple games, slowly expand the map/list of playable factions, make sure that all the factions in the game are as distinct as they can be. Continue to increase the depth of the strategic layer from the already-excellent 3K. I'd also like to see them do what they've done with 3K and expand by adding more start dates for the campaign with DLCs and addons over time. Original MTW had the early, high and late Medieval campaigns, and Medieval 2 had the eras, but you always start in the early era (which really is more like the high Middle Ages from a historical point of view but I digress). But I'd like for them to this time to focus on the late Middle Ages for their initial start date and campaign to shake things up a bit and because I think that due to Medieval 2 always starting in 1080 (I think that was it) the late Middle Ages was probably experienced by a signficantly smaller percentage of players than the high and early eras, at least when it comes to the campaign. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Jun 4, 2020 |
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Jun 4, 2020 18:59
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Whatever they do with Medieval III, I hope they realize that they have to involve the player in the world more.
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Jun 4, 2020 19:21
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Randarkman posted:One good thing though seems to be that they're FINALLY trying to get away from the 20+ year old and completely wrong video game version of spears. Yeah, but Warhammer was also the game for that given how some of the best infantry in the game are supposed to be halberd infantry. (Phoenix Guard, Temple Guardians, Black Guard) and even lower tier spears like High Elf Spearmanii are supposed to be dangerous....but that didn't really work out there.  If they backport solid spears to Warhams though would be good.
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Jun 4, 2020 19:32
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I just hope that with Medieval 3 they'll have taken a look at the Broken Crescent mod for Medieval 2 for how to do the Islamic factions right. Those weren't 100% historically accurate, but that wasn't really the point either, base them in history as a foundation and try to create a fun roster around a bunch of different references and documented armor and weapon styles and what not. I am probably bit biased there, because of my interest in the medieval Islamic period, and because I contributed lightly to the unit rosters of some of the factions back when I was a teenager. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jun 4, 2020 |
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Jun 4, 2020 19:35
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To make things even more confusing, there are a couple true mythological beings like cyclopses. The addition of more terrain types is welcome, at least
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Jun 4, 2020 19:36
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A potential Medieval 3 will only interest me if Jeff comes back to do the music because holy poo poo the M2TW soundtrack is a blast. On the topic of medieval 2, is stainless steel still the go to overhaul mod or have there been any big advancements in the years since I've played? Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jun 4, 2020 |
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Jun 4, 2020 19:44
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Fuligin posted:To make things even more confusing, there are a couple true mythological beings like cyclopses. Oh that's cool, got any further info? Arcsquad12 posted:A potential Medieval 3 will only interest me if Jeff comes back to do the music because holy poo poo the M2TW soundtrack is a blast. I'm a fan of a lot of the post-Jeff soundtracks, but flagging this up because the in-game music for this Troy preview was weird. Don't know how to describe it other than, it didn't feel appropriate.
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Jun 4, 2020 19:52
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Honestly thought it looked pretty good, but yeah the music was a bit weird.
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Jun 4, 2020 19:59
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KazigluBey posted:Who is this game for? If you're into the historical games, stuff like the heal will irk you. If you're into TW:W, the kinda' weak takes on "mythology" won't be enough. yes because no one plays tw:3k on the best, and default, romance mode
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Jun 4, 2020 21:50
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Troy with just the heroic champions would've been fine, it's entirely the dip into stuff like there take on the cyclops or minotaur that feel weird and just out of place. They absolutely picked the one place that would piss off the most number of people. (To say nothing of the Epic thing.) I really want to see this game in action because I love the time period, but I really think it will be bad given what we know now.
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Jun 4, 2020 21:58
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Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:yes because no one plays tw:3k on the best, and default, romance mode 3K works because it has both modes, and they're at appropriate levels. Literal Yellow Turban magic would honestly have been a step too far. Troy meanwhile, could definitely have done better with a similar choice. Either you play the Illiad or you play the history. Trying to do both seems to be a bit awkward. Not bad per se, but it'll rub folks the wrong way.
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Jun 4, 2020 22:01
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Fuligin posted:To make things even more confusing, there are a couple true mythological beings like cyclopses. The addition of more terrain types is welcome, at least Cyclops is a dude with en elephant skull helmet 
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Jun 4, 2020 22:34
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Yeah from the looks of it, legends are just "strong dudes who could perform heroics" which doesn't seem out of line from 3k at all.
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Jun 4, 2020 22:38
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The whole just a skirt and barechested and tatooed really stands out from the other soldiers you have, but not in a great way? Like here's this neolithic strong man against an army at least trying to wear armor and looking a bit fancier.
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Jun 4, 2020 22:40
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It's pretty unfortunate, everything I've seen from the battle gameplay videos makes it look like a total step back from 3K. Which, along with the UI being ripped straight from TW2, makes me wonder if it started development before 3K was out there?
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Jun 5, 2020 00:13
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It's based on the WH2 fork of their engine which I imagine has something to do with it. Though they still managed to import the awful green/red icons for unit banners. Mostly though I just don't think "super aesthetic UI" is in the budget for Saga games.
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Jun 5, 2020 00:17
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Arcsquad12 posted:A potential Medieval 3 will only interest me if Jeff comes back to do the music because holy poo poo the M2TW soundtrack is a blast. If he does return I hope that he goes for the grim, gritty and atmospheric sound from Medieval 1.
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Jun 5, 2020 00:26
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Anno posted:It's based on the WH2 fork of their engine which I imagine has something to do with it. Though they still managed to import the awful green/red icons for unit banners. Huh, that actually explains pretty much everything I felt from the gameplay, like it's an officially developed WH2 total conversion mod. Thanks for that info!
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Jun 5, 2020 00:45
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:Cyclops is a dude with en elephant skull helmet Very weird, the preview up on... either rps or eurogamer said explicitly the opposite. Maybe it was just tortured phrasing
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Jun 5, 2020 00:49
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That UI is really ugly after playing 3Kingdoms. It definitely looks like a step back.
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Jun 5, 2020 00:50
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