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DrankSinatra
Aug 25, 2011
I started playing the Chosokabe in Shogun 2 recently, and it's the first time I've really gotten heavy into a TW game (which is weird, because I own everything from Shogun 2 on, except Rome 2). Is it possible to rotate out units? Say I have some yari ashigaru that are getting very fatigued, can I give a retreat order and have them disengage, so that I can rotate in some samurai?

I feel like playing Chosokabe is a bit weird, because you have some small/manageable-for-a-beginner early battles, then by the time I get off of Shikoku, battles are much bigger, and I tend to get overworked and the battles devolve into blobby orgies when my lines break down.

DrankSinatra fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Apr 16, 2021

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my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

20 Blunts posted:

i saw a guy on youtube do this thing where instead of taking more settlements and "campaigning" he just took a couple in the start, then every move disbanded units in one of his starting settlements, causing the Marian reform in like 20-30 turns or something, however long it took to develop population booming farms & barracks. in theory, between a combination of almost seamlessly causing your Roman neighbors to have rebellions, and then pitching those post-Marian Legionary Cohorts against Rebels, it would just be too easy to eliminate a huge part of the game.

The fastest way to get to the Marian reforms is to keep enslaving cities you conquer, and ONLY keep a general inside ONE city in Italy. Every time you enslave a city, the city of Rome gets half the enslaved pops, and the rest of the enslaved pops gets distributed among your provinces with governing generals. You shouldn't slow down your conquests. If anything, this works best with a berserk attack attack attack routine. Scipii can do this fairly quickly by enslaving Sicily and Carthage, especially if you can manage to get a small force backed by mercenaries to take a few cities in Greece.

Disbanding units is a mistake, because you can use those units to enslave another settlement for the same result, but also have an extra settlements and troops.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

DrankSinatra posted:

I started playing the Chosokabe in Shogun 2 recently, and it's the first time I've really gotten heavy into a TW game (which is weird, because I own everything from Shogun 2 on, except Rome 2). Is it possible to rotate out units? Say I have some yari ashigaru that are getting very fatigued, can I give a retreat order and have them disengage, so that I can rotate in some samurai?

If they're not in yari wall (which they should be, tbh), you can just keep clicking behind them and they'll try to back off. Do note that if they're exhausted, they're gonna take heavy casualties unless you run someone in to take the fight right away.

If they're in yari wall, you're better off keeping them there and trying to flank what they're fighting with whatever else you've got. Combat Shogun 2 is generally fairly lethal and quick and the best time to rest is when the enemy is dead.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


How is Shogun 2 for someone whose main TW game has been Napoleon - > 3 Kingdoms?

20 Blunts
Jan 21, 2017

my dad posted:

The fastest way to get to the Marian reforms is to keep enslaving cities you conquer, and ONLY keep a general inside ONE city in Italy. Every time you enslave a city, the city of Rome gets half the enslaved pops, and the rest of the enslaved pops gets distributed among your provinces with governing generals. You shouldn't slow down your conquests. If anything, this works best with a berserk attack attack attack routine. Scipii can do this fairly quickly by enslaving Sicily and Carthage, especially if you can manage to get a small force backed by mercenaries to take a few cities in Greece.

Disbanding units is a mistake, because you can use those units to enslave another settlement for the same result, but also have an extra settlements and troops.

yeah he was enslaving, then raising peasants everywhere then disbanding them in one town, then using extra dough to raise mercenaries with generals then disbanding them there. he was kind of doing a "lets break the game" thing. also the town in question he was shooting for the first Legionary Barracks was Patavium, which already has a +7 population growth I guess, and by developing farming there you get the biggest population boost.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Don't focus too much on your melee infantry, by the way. It's good, don't get me wrong, but some solid archer and cavalry support go a long way. Archers become more important after the reform because archer auxillia are probably the best archers in the game (pre-reform, get those Cretan archer mercenaries for an early taste of what they're like), but equites are incredibly useful from the start - hunting down fleeing enemies ensures you won't have to fight them again, and during the battle can support your general in killing his counterpart and demolishing the enemy line with rear charges. They get even better AFTER the reform - equites auxillia are an insanely good light cavalry, and they are MUCH easier to retrain than your legions, requiring only a basic stable - letting you keep your momentum by sacrificing easily replaced cavalry to preserve the high tier infantry you make in Italy.

Tiler Kiwi
Feb 26, 2011
i forgot how crazy overpowered Rome was in Rome 1. of course AI Rome never seemed to reform so eh.

i never even fought Romans in Rome 2 because they never survived to the point id encounter them so no comment there.

Xander77
Apr 6, 2009

Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.



my dad posted:

e: The best way to slow down your fellow "allies" is to cut off their expansion routes and deny them military access. The senate actually won't get pissed off about that one, unlike most other forms of diplomatic fuckery. A few forts in chokepoints, and you've pretty much pacified them.
Also - just send a single unit to accompany their armies and join fights. When you witness the fight in person, the Romans are a lot more likely to take losses \ lose the battle outright than when the battle is auto-calculated. You can also combine it with the method above - have your "allies" lose fights, then snipe the weakened enemy.

Is the "youtube guy" we are all talking about Many a True Nerd btw?

Xander77 fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Apr 16, 2021

Roobanguy
May 31, 2011

Flipswitch posted:

How is Shogun 2 for someone whose main TW game has been Napoleon - > 3 Kingdoms?

Shogun 2 is probably the first of the “modern” total wars so you should be right at home with it.

20 Blunts
Jan 21, 2017

Xander77 posted:

Also - just send a single unit to accompany their armies and join fights. When you witness the fight in person, the Romans are a lot more likely to take losses \ lose the battle outright than when the battle is auto-calculated. You can also combine it with the method above - have your "allies" lose fights, then snipe the weakened enemy.

Is the "youtube guy" we are all talking about Many a True Nerd btw?

Yeah. I only watched like the first 5 minutes.

lol @ sending like a unit of 2 guys to watch your allies battles, just standing there as they all die

e: also lmao that i just killed Egypt's faction leader with 13 barbarian cavalry, after engaging that single unit against his 100-something force, as two armies of like 500 looked on about a half mile away

20 Blunts fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Apr 17, 2021

RoyalScion
May 16, 2009
Shogun 2 is pretty good, the main things are that ship combat sucks, ranged is lethal, and going for any samurai at all for most of the game is a huge trap since wall yari ashigaru are good enough and loads more costeffective until you get lategame toys.

Also the beginning is a lot slower because you don't get as much free base funds per turn, and upgrading buildings is extremely expensive.

alex314
Nov 22, 2007

Naval in S2 is waaaaaaay better than in Rome 2. At least there's some degree of control during the battles. There's also way more armies running around than in 3k, since you don't have limits on army count. Every time I try S2 after others I forget how quick and bloody battles are.

Vagabong
Mar 2, 2019
If you're getting into Shogun then its worth checking out the Fall of The Shogun dlc. Its the last gunpowder entry in the series and benefits a lot from the improvements made by the base game, even if the balance leans heavily in favour of artillery.

Both the base game and FoTS have some of the better seiges of the series, and they both have pretty powerful agents; it has the same problem that a lot of the series has with them taking a lot of micro, but the results can be fairly satisfying.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Seconding Fall of the Samurai, it's great.

If you end up not liking the naval combat there, just spam Kanko Maru class ships (it's the cheapest ship that isn't a gunboat) and use autoresolve. You'll demolish everyone thanks to a combination of its higher sailor complement counting for more than it does in actual battles, being able to build it in rather basic ports, and it being hella cheap, ensuring you have the numbers advantage. (e: I like the big naval battles, and I keep a "main" fleet for them, but I can't be assed to fight every small incursion and keep around Kanko Maru flyswatter fleets for that)

If you want to experience the joy that is FotS artillery as soon as possible, start with the Saga clan. Their starting army has a unit of artillery (but is for the most part based around traditionalist spear armed troops and cavalry - which are actually better at the very start of the game than their rifle counterparts until actual disciplined and trained rifle infantry shows up around midgame, and it's fairly easy to make that transition if you don't put all your eggs in the traditionalism basket). Aim the cannons manually for maximum damage. It's not too hard to snipe a general and a bunch of troops before the lines meet.

It's extra useful because you can delay teching to artillery for a while - you really don't need more than one unit until you're ready for Realm Divide, and can instead focus on getting your other stuff up to speed.

my dad fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Apr 17, 2021

BigglesSWE
Dec 2, 2014

How 'bout them hawks news huh!
Fall of the Samurai is fantastic. It’s also the biggest showcase of the limit to the TW format in that eventually, technology will far outstrip the viability for the type of armies that TW is ultimately built around. It turns out that 1870’s Japan is just about the end of the line for a viable TW game, but I’m glad they did it. It rules, and the artillery is astoundingly satisfying to use.

kingturnip
Apr 18, 2008
It looks like the Rome: Total War Remastered team have some AI glitches to fix before launch day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FqUxeKGJ3k

RoyalScion
May 16, 2009
Armstrong guns are absurdly busted and once you get them you can basically win every battle for free with enough of them.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
It seems for the New BI they made emergent factions playable.

You could do that in the original with modding but now it’s default

Chortles
Dec 29, 2008

CharlestheHammer posted:

It seems for the New BI they made emergent factions playable.

You could do that in the original with modding but now it’s default
I kind of wish this were added to 3K considering how at least four base game factions remain unplayable in Mandate of Heaven.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

Chortles posted:

I kind of wish this were added to 3K considering how at least four base game factions remain unplayable in Mandate of Heaven.

Which ones?

McTimmy
Feb 29, 2008
Yuan Shao, Kong Rong, Gongsun Zan and Zhang Yan.

Yuan Shao and Kong Rong are part of Liu Hong's court. Gongsun Zan is part of Liu Yu's faction. Zhang Yan is the only one that starts on the map.

Chortles
Dec 29, 2008
Zheng Jiang and Lü Bu are also emergent factions in MOH.

McTimmy
Feb 29, 2008


Breaking the game in new and exciting ways!

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

McTimmy posted:



Breaking the game in new and exciting ways!
What are we supposed to be looking at?

McTimmy
Feb 29, 2008

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

What are we supposed to be looking at?

I'm at war with my Alliance partner while also being in a seperate Empire with Cao Cao who's at war with my Alliance but not with me.

The Chad Jihad
Feb 24, 2007


It's time to get cursedblessed

Kazzah
Jul 15, 2011

Formerly known as
Krazyface
Hair Elf
I played a Troy campaign this past week, as Hector. Start went okay, I took over most of Lesbos, then went and conquered some of the Anatolian interior to get control over those gold mines. I just barely managed to beat Paris to the first tier of being dad's favourite, then snowballed straight through the next two. And then I just ground to a halt. Every single faction in Greece, and a bunch from the Dardanelles, is sending every stack they've got at me. I'm holding onto my land, but I can only afford about two stacks worth of food, and that's with multiple upkeep reductions. I don't know how I'm meant to make progress, it's like turn 70.

Xander77
Apr 6, 2009

Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.



Holy loving poo poo, it's a Spiffing Brit video that actually justifies its length (and doesn't have the tea skit). Amazing.

Not quite as amazing as explaining what exactly is going on, but there's ever a limit to the possible.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011


Funky See Funky Do
Aug 20, 2013
STILL TRYING HARD

Not watching it but is that the diplomacy bug all the way in RTW? It would be hilarious if it was present right from the start.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

Funky See Funky Do posted:

Not watching it but is that the diplomacy bug all the way in RTW? It would be hilarious if it was present right from the start.

Isn't it due to a Remastered unique mechanic that they introduced?

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

MiddleOne posted:

Isn't it due to a Remastered unique mechanic that they introduced?
Yes. Obviously its broken and needs fixing; its not some bizarro edge case its just that the new mechanic was coded poorly and would have been broken anywhere you put it.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

It's a combination of two issues. The first seems to be that counteroffering on the diplomacy screen after making a Compensation request lets you toss basically anything into the counteroffer and the AI will accept - in this case, adding all their available cities and a large payment per turn. The other is that the AI can PAY those large payments, regardless of how insane it is - here, he was requesting stuff like 1 million gold for 40 turns and the single settlement AI nations were somehow paying it.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
It's not like the original is much better if you know where the diplomacy system breaks. There are 2 minute speedruns of the short campaigns, it boils down to something fairly similar.

Communist Thoughts
Jan 7, 2008

Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!


spiffing brit

FunkyBean
Mar 17, 2011
Low on fat and calories so gonna go eat some peanut butter.
This may have been answered but are the MTU, WDG, TROM, puzzle, and TUP mods all compatible? It seems like most of these are able to work together and are suggested a lot. Was just curious if I could just throw em all in or if I need to be more choosy with which ones to jump into first. Thanks y’all.

Funky See Funky Do
Aug 20, 2013
STILL TRYING HARD
They're all compatible* but you'll to play around with the load order a bit to get them working together.

The Doomhammer
Feb 14, 2010

I don't think TROM and TUP have been updated to be compatible yet, from what I can tell. That is supposedly on the way though.

WDG and MTU are a required part of TUP so you'll need to use them together anyway. Load order should be somewhere on TUP's mod page.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


FunkyBean posted:

This may have been answered but are the MTU, WDG, TROM, puzzle, and TUP mods all compatible? It seems like most of these are able to work together and are suggested a lot. Was just curious if I could just throw em all in or if I need to be more choosy with which ones to jump into first. Thanks y’all.
Yeah, as said, TROM isn't compatible with TUP. So those are the only ones you choose.

For TROM, you disable MTU but keep it installed/subscribed.

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Vagabong
Mar 2, 2019
Are civil wars broken in Three Kingdoms? I've only ever seen them happen in game when they're mentioned in that event after Dong's death, but nothing seems to actually occur on the map.

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