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Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


He has to also have 90 Counties so I don't think it is.

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Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I have three regrets
The first is to be born in Joseon.
Just started up an Etruscan game in Rise of the Republic. Why did nobody mention they recorded an entirely new voice set for them? They sound like the absolute poshest dipshits, it's kind of a neat and characterful contrast compared to the Romans and I wasn't expecting it at all. Kind of wish there were more voice sets for the main campaign factions too; it's a shame all the "eastern" factions from Morocco to Pakistan and the "barbarian" ones from Iberia to Kazakhstan get the same voices.

Arbite
Nov 4, 2009





Is there any way to know which Three Kingdoms DLCs sold the best?

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

I picked up Three Kingdoms in the sale and I find I'm bouncing off it. I feel like I understand everything it's trying to do, but the construction system is needlessly byzantine, as is the tech tree. I like the concept of retinues but in practise it means each army now has three leaders who's gear and attributes I'm trying to track. I don't understand army composition at all and this is the first Total War game I've ever played where I have zero intuitive sense as to what will happen when two different units meet. As a consequence I've been auto-resolving a lot. I'm 50 turns into a Cao Cao campaign, have seized everything East up to the coast, swept south along the Yangtzee river, and formed a coalition with Liu Bei to stabilise that front. I have five generals in two armies and my state exists pretty much hand to mouth with me selling vast amounts of food to anyone with money to pay for it.

I don't think I'm having fun. Have I picked the wrong faction to start with?

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo

Koramei posted:

Just started up an Etruscan game in Rise of the Republic. Why did nobody mention they recorded an entirely new voice set for them? They sound like the absolute poshest dipshits, it's kind of a neat and characterful contrast compared to the Romans and I wasn't expecting it at all. Kind of wish there were more voice sets for the main campaign factions too; it's a shame all the "eastern" factions from Morocco to Pakistan and the "barbarian" ones from Iberia to Kazakhstan get the same voices.

Shades of medieval 2. Ah yes, the dano-russo-hungaro-polish accent.

Meanwhile Scotland gets their own one.

Chortles
Dec 29, 2008

Alchenar posted:

Have I picked the wrong faction to start with?
If you're more of a 'map corner start' player then Gongsun Zan has you covered: he's got Zhao Yun*, not-half-bad unique cavalry, and unlike Cao Cao he doesn't have a faction resource for you to worry about maintaining. Alternately, Sun Jian (who does have a faction resource) in 190 CE doesn't have a lot of opposition south of the Yangtze River... if you're going southeast then Yan Baihu will be the main potential opposition there, and with the right reforms and building choices the southeast commanderies are economic powerhouses in the making. Off the top of my head, if you don't mind swarming with militia stacks then Liu Bei's Shu-Han Tax Collector building will boost both peasantry income and militia replenishment in the commandery without the public order penalty from other Han factions' tax collector building.

As for unit compositions... between Han/bandit units (I'm less familiar with Yellow Turban and Nanman units) the balancing is a pentagonal version of the Shogun 2-style rock-paper-scissors. In theory:
  • Melee infantry (purple, metal, sword/axe) counters polearm infantry (green, wood) by usually having shields unlike the latter, better melee evasion (defense), and melee attack rate; unshielded melee infantry tend to have even higher melee charge bonuses.
  • Polearm infantry counters cavalry via their weapons having a (hidden without mods) bonus vs. cavalry, and the units usually having a 'charge reflect vs. mounted' passive that's enabled once they're braced.
  • Melee cavalry (yellow, earth, sword/axe) counters ranged by usually being shielded and thus usually having a high (over 60%) ranged block chance, as well as 50% missile resistance.
  • Ranged (blue, water) counters shock cavalry by a high (+45?) bonus vs. cavalry, and ranged infantry in particular will more often then not outnumber cavalry by a 4:1 ratio.
  • Shock cavalry (red, fire, polearm) counters melee infantry by their high charge bonus increasing both damage (although that can be negated if the unit has charge negate vs. mounted) and chance to hit, potentially outweighing the infantry's melee evasion.
Additionally, axe units will apply a 'Shield Breaker' debuff to units they engage in melee with, halberd units will tend towards higher total damage while spear units will tend towards greater melee AP damage, crossbow units will have better AP damage than bow units but cannot use Fire Arrows for taking out towers, and ranged cavalry have plenty of ammo to skirmish with but have the same vulnerabilities to ranged infantry as shock cavalry do.

As far as the generals, you can click a button in each general's profile window to open a detailed list of their effects organized by circumstance, and use this to more easily check their effects (retinue-wide, army-wide, and army-wide-if-appointed-commanding-general) than by mousing over their ancillaries and skills.

* Zhao Yun's one of the only sentinels who can wield polearms, one of his passive skill unlock choices which boosts his melee AP damage and melee evasion (defense) the longer he stays in melee, he has vanguards' melee splash attack ability, and his primary attribute affects construction costs in any commandery that you appoint him administrator of.

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


Note this is in theory. In practice I have never found it to be a good idea to build yellow cav unless you're doing some waste enemy ammo strat. They just don't do any damage and the ai is bad at focusing down your red cav so they are rarely in danger and just kill everything. Plus being armed with spears they are way better at taking on enemy cav. I basically win every battle with my ranged and cav and whatever infantry I have just reflects on what generals were available. Their job is just to die slowly anyway.

McTimmy
Feb 29, 2008
Someone needs to eat attacks in all-cav armies.

RoyalScion
May 16, 2009
The main problem with sword infantry are two of the main threats are generally cavalry and generals, which they’re terrible at dealing with.

In practice it’s better just to make your mainline out of spears with shields to hold the line and dismount enemy generals while your own ranged/cavalry/generals kill everything.

Especially once you get emperor troops, protectors are the best overall infantry by a mile and it’s not even close.

Militia have taken repeated morale nerfs so unless I’m playing liu bei I never buy them anymore except for archers.

Theswarms
Dec 20, 2005

Alchenar posted:

I picked up Three Kingdoms in the sale and I find I'm bouncing off it. I feel like I understand everything it's trying to do, but the construction system is needlessly byzantine, as is the tech tree. I like the concept of retinues but in practise it means each army now has three leaders who's gear and attributes I'm trying to track. I don't understand army composition at all and this is the first Total War game I've ever played where I have zero intuitive sense as to what will happen when two different units meet. As a consequence I've been auto-resolving a lot. I'm 50 turns into a Cao Cao campaign, have seized everything East up to the coast, swept south along the Yangtzee river, and formed a coalition with Liu Bei to stabilise that front. I have five generals in two armies and my state exists pretty much hand to mouth with me selling vast amounts of food to anyone with money to pay for it.

I don't think I'm having fun. Have I picked the wrong faction to start with?

Everything is colour-coded is the secret to understanding 3k.

When it comes to buildings you usually want to build things in cities that match what the minor settlements provide. Got a trade port producing lots of commerce? The blue commerce boosting buildings are probably gonna work out great! This game is all about stacking bonuses in settlements to suddenly produce a whole lot of poo poo, especially for commerce/food and peasantry income. Industry income tends to be a little more independent, with less buffs.

Technologies will then boost related things as well. Got a lot of blue minor settlements? The blue tech area is going to let you upgrade them further! There are some key techs though, there's a red line tech that gives +10% replenishment that is godly for keeping your units fighting. In general the stacking bonuses thing means looking at the money makers you have and getting the techs that let you upgrade them is going to help your economy the most - if you look at a building you can't upgrade it should have a little image of a tech you can click and get taken to the point in the reform tree that techs at.

This then applies to armies, your blue guys will get new units and buffs from the blue techs, so if you like strategists, blue techs will help. Want to upgrade your sentinels? Check out purple techs!

As for when units meet, Chortles summarised that well, with the addition that militia are now much, much worse than non-militia units (especially morale wise) so you can expect militia to get chewed through by same colour higher tier units. Personally I find shock cavalry wins fights, your main line just needs to hold while that happens and shielded spears are usually the best way to do that, with archer/artillery support for making enemies engage, so my favourite armies are Red/Blue/Green. You can always substitute, Purple will hold the fine (will do better versus enemy infantry and worse versus cav) and yellow cav can manage a charge just fine, they just won't have the sheer punch of red.

Don't worry too much about attributes of a general tbh - you'll usually be equipping the gear you have, I don't usually tend to have a lot of spare gear for options until late game and when it comes to skills I prefer to pick based on the abilities/bonuses rather than the stats. Do equip any better weapons you find asap though, the difference between a generic starter weapon and even an uncommon one is absolutely massive for your generals damage output.

Chortles did units so
Purple - Industry/Construction
Green - Food/Peasantry
Red - Military
Blue - Commerce/Trade
Yellow - Corruption/Public Order

Theswarms fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jul 7, 2021

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Theswarms posted:

Everything is colour-coded is the secret to understanding 3k.


Thanks for this write up and yes, the game started to make massively more sense when I realised that the colour coding synergises across settlements, generals and tech.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Mustang posted:

Who are all these people buying and playing 3K DLC? Warhammer 2 always seems to have at least twice as many people playing.

Warhammer 2 seems to have picked up more players along the way whereas 3k has done opposite.

Warhammer 2 also seems to get a hell of a lot more attention by Youtubers.

China. And to a lesser degree the rest of Asia. Who, incidentally, haven't been directly marketed to by Warhammer in the same way western markets are which is almost certainly why CA is adding Cathay to WH3.

Though considering how much the Chinese fanbase hates this news, only time will tell how things shake out.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo

Xarbala posted:

China. And to a lesser degree the rest of Asia. Who, incidentally, haven't been directly marketed to by Warhammer in the same way western markets are which is almost certainly why CA is adding Cathay to WH3.

Though considering how much the Chinese fanbase hates this news, only time will tell how things shake out.

Games Workshop is adding Cathay to the Warhammer tabletop reboot. CA is just copying it.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Games Workshop is adding Cathay to the Warhammer tabletop reboot. CA is just copying it.

I guess this is a case of me not paying attention to GW since they got their act together

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo
I'm replaying NTW with the March of Eagles mod and it's v good. I'm on the first field battle of Italy and actually having to scout out the austrian AI with my cav instead of just slamming stupidly into them.

e: lol as soon as I posted this my dragoons found their general and gave him a firing squad. TW AI gonna AI I suppose. Still a fun battle going on though. I'm actually needing to have the dragoons hold a picket while the line and arty move up.

e2: get em boys

e3: and so it begins

these battles are long as gently caress but they're really fun

Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Jul 9, 2021

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Aaaaagh where in three kingdoms does it tell you that replenishing troops after a battle is an atrocity that will make everyone on the planet furious with me?

reignonyourparade
Nov 15, 2012

Alchenar posted:

Aaaaagh where in three kingdoms does it tell you that replenishing troops after a battle is an atrocity that will make everyone on the planet furious with me?

Nowhere but the good news is it will only make people who like that faction furious with you, replenish away whenever you fight yellow turbans, it'll actually make the factions you can actually conduct diplomacy with like you more. (Apparently it's partly legacy code from warhammer where the choice is frequently explicitly "enslave them" or "eat them" or whatnot.)

ShootaBoy
Jan 6, 2010

Anime is Bad.
Except for Pokemon, Valkyria Chronicles and 100% OJ.

I figured they kept it since you're pretty much press ganging people into your army, but it is super dumb that they don't tell you about it.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
We'll gently caress, now I know why I'm getting dogpiled and everyone hates me, I just thought the diplomacy system was poo poo.

Does letting prisoners go actually increase the size of opposing armies, or is it just the neutral option/slight diplomatic improvement?

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

Breetai posted:

Does letting prisoners go actually increase the size of opposing armies, or is it just the neutral option/slight diplomatic improvement?
It does not increase the size of opposing armies that I am aware of. But keep in mind that as reignonyourparade mentioned, the options that affect diplomacy will affect people that like or dislike the faction. So if Cao Cao is allied to Liu Bei, you are allied to Gongsun Zan, and these two alliance blocks are at war with each other, when you slaughter Liu Bei's captives, Liu Bei and Cao Cao will like you less, while Gongsun Zan will like you more. Therefore if you release the captives of Liu Bei, Cao Cao and Liu Bei will like you more while Gongsun Zan will like you less.

AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Jul 9, 2021

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Gotta love that even when the Diplomacy system is working and linked to the AI's strategic decisionmaking pathway, CA still find a way to cloak the whole system in a veil.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

Alchenar posted:

Gotta love that even when the Diplomacy system is working and linked to the AI's strategic decisionmaking pathway, CA still find a way to cloak the whole system in a veil.
Yeah its kinda the same as how in Warhammer Total War you can, as a Vampire Count, you can spend 20 turns sacking a different Vampire Count's city and it will cause people that hate Vampire Counts.... to like you because you're hurting someone they hate.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

Yeah its kinda the same as how in Warhammer Total War you can, as a Vampire Count, you can spend 20 turns sacking a different Vampire Count's city and it will cause people that hate Vampire Counts.... to like you because you're hurting someone they hate.

That's not a problem there though because all factions in Total War follow the same narrative of 'consolidate your faction/race under your control, then fight the evil/good guys while trying to broadly keep on good terms with people from different climates if you can help it'.

DrankSinatra
Aug 25, 2011
Quick Rome Remastered question: If I'm new to the series (I started Shogun 2 and Rome a few times a while back, and got sidetracked with work), what's a good starting campaign difficulty? I did about twenty or so turns with easy/easy, but it seemed too straightforward. I'll definitely set the battles to normal, since the morale stuff is immediately obvious in gameplay.

Also, was Realistic Governance an option in the original Rome? I tried googling without much luck. I'm leaning towards having it off, because general shuffling/waiting on family members to be born seems like less "here are interesting decisions for you to make" and more like busywork.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer

DrankSinatra posted:

Quick Rome Remastered question: If I'm new to the series (I started Shogun 2 and Rome a few times a while back, and got sidetracked with work), what's a good starting campaign difficulty? I did about twenty or so turns with easy/easy, but it seemed too straightforward. I'll definitely set the battles to normal, since the morale stuff is immediately obvious in gameplay.

Also, was Realistic Governance an option in the original Rome? I tried googling without much luck. I'm leaning towards having it off, because general shuffling/waiting on family members to be born seems like less "here are interesting decisions for you to make" and more like busywork.

When I played Rome it was an option that as soon as I realized I could turn off I did. In terms of difficulty I would say go with normal/normal and see how it goes.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer
I didn't think it was possible, but I am now excited for Troy.

CA seems to be heavily hinting at some sort of mythical creature revamp or something with these teasers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkAjCYFgCPc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7RIlzRaFks

If CA goes Full Warhammer on Troy, I'm going to play the poo poo out of it.

GIVE ME REAL MINOTAURS, GIVE ME HYDRAS, GIVE ME MEDUSAE

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


Dramicus posted:

I didn't think it was possible, but I am now excited for Troy.

CA seems to be heavily hinting at some sort of mythical creature revamp or something with these teasers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkAjCYFgCPc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7RIlzRaFks

If CA goes Full Warhammer on Troy, I'm going to play the poo poo out of it.

GIVE ME REAL MINOTAURS, GIVE ME HYDRAS, GIVE ME MEDUSAE

This is literally what I wanted for Troy so....I'd actually have to buy it if they make it fun. Though this also needs to rely on Achilles being able to beat Hector 1 on 1.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

The cynical side of me wants to think that they tried the faux mythological units on EGS to experiment, and will now do what they always planned by having actual mythological units in Troy with the Steam release.

Captain Beans
Aug 5, 2004

Whar be the beans?
Hair Elf
I just wasn't feeling Troy (its hard to complete on the heels of 3k and Warhammer) but I appreciate they are willing to experiment a bunch with it. EGS exclusive agreement was legit a perfect choice for them, I understand why they did it. Lets see how it turns out on steam.

feller
Jul 5, 2006


Eimi posted:

This is literally what I wanted for Troy so....I'd actually have to buy it if they make it fun. Though this also needs to rely on Achilles being able to beat Hector 1 on 1.

:same:

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
Give me a generic mythology total war.

I want a cavalry only side with centaur horse archers and cataphracts.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Did you guys seriously not click the button to get it for free out of principle?

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


I ended up doing do and actually playing it when it had amazons and was very disappointed with the game for a lot of reasons. Though I would honestly probably buy it when it comes to steam if they do change things because I would much rather have it on steam with steam workshop and all my other games.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer

Alchenar posted:

Did you guys seriously not click the button to get it for free out of principle?

I got it during the free launch and played it a bit but quickly went back to 3k and Warhammer.

I wonder if they are going to take a page out of 3k and have a historical and a romance mythical mode.

The Chad Jihad
Feb 24, 2007


I think troy is decent overall, but it probably needs another set of start positions since as it is things are pretty cramped in and theres big swathes of Greece that you dont really get pulled into naturally. Which is actually a little neat, to me, having this area that most players wont see but that's probably not good from a gameplay perspective

Anyway, the stuff the teasers are hinting at seems to pretty clearly point to the supernatural, unless they go the perhaps even more bonkers route of making things like the leviathan and roc cryptids and/or prehistoric

Xander77
Apr 6, 2009

Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.



Captain Beans posted:

I just wasn't feeling Troy (its hard to complete on the heels of 3k and Warhammer) but I appreciate they are willing to experiment a bunch with it. EGS exclusive agreement was legit a perfect choice for them, I understand why they did it. Lets see how it turns out on steam.
I'm wondering whether the game got some new and interesting factions. Having to fight basically the exact same guys over and over and over grew very tiresome (particularly when the destiny events or whatever fired at random and took their time, so I couldn't even tell how near the endgame I am)

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Alchenar posted:

Did you guys seriously not click the button to get it for free out of principle?

I cannot understate how lazy I am when it comes to registering with storefront services

Blooming Brilliant
Jul 12, 2010

Dramicus posted:

I didn't think it was possible, but I am now excited for Troy.

CA seems to be heavily hinting at some sort of mythical creature revamp or something with these teasers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkAjCYFgCPc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7RIlzRaFks

If CA goes Full Warhammer on Troy, I'm going to play the poo poo out of it.

GIVE ME REAL MINOTAURS, GIVE ME HYDRAS, GIVE ME MEDUSAE

Latest trailer hinted at Cerberus.

I'm somewhat excited for this. Just saying though, if CA hypes up actual mythological monsters and pulls more "truth behind the myth" stuff, that'd be another big PR ooof to be to their recent string of them.

Edit: Thinking practically, a Cerberus model would need an entirely new skeleton rig right? There's nothing CA could lift from Warhammer right?

smug jeebus
Oct 26, 2008
Cerberus will be a 'big guy' who wears a dog head mask and wields two more dog heads as weapons

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Mans
Sep 14, 2011

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
The trailers have shown some sort of super natural creatures and voices.

I honestly hope they pull an age of mythologyesque DLC on the game.

I liked Troy bit played exactly once because I really don't see the reason to replay a game that had basically five units.

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