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Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

New to the series? Read this helpful super tutorial post by Sober which explains literally everything ever (no matter which Total War game it is!)

Sober posted:

By popular request, and for a megathread in case heaven forbid, people new to the series want to actually play a total war game want to actually not just smash their head at it for 4 hours before it makes sense or they give up, I give you ...

A Guide on How to Play Total War Games For New Players Because No One Will Ever Teach You The Fundamentals

But Sober, the Total War franchise has been a thing since the year of our lord, two thousand (Total War: Shogun released in 2000)! Why do we need a guide now?
Because frankly, there really is a dearth of guides on how to play Total War. Not to be lazy, so I googled "how to play Total War" and the top results are the official How To Play guide for Total War Rome 2 (which is honestly pretty crappy, all things considered) or really specific to one game.

So let's say there was a recent Steam Sale (we're all guilty), and you decided "hey, why don't I grab the most recent Total War game for cheap or all the older back catalogue for like 50 bucks. I hear there's plenty of hours in any single Total War game alone!" And you're not wrong there. The problem that I've found though, is that none of them actually teach you how to play Total War in any competent capacity.

This is what the guide is for, to teach you the fundamentals, because for heaven's sake, there really isn't a good one. Especially when everyone points to "well buy the game in the era that interests you" and assumes they can enjoy fumbling about and learning the unexplained fundamentals of game as much as you did back in the day. You old farts.

Let's get started.


Welcome to Total War! It gets easier, I promise. So I figured you've probably started the respective tutorials for the game you're interested in. This may range from "hmm, alright" (Napoleon, Shogun 2) or "WHAT THE gently caress IS THIS poo poo" (Rome 2). That's quite alright. I think they taught you the controls.

Forget about the tutorial unless you have a godly amount of patience because everything after that requires more work than the actual game usually entails. If you want a more in-depth look at the camera/unit controls, I recommend watching this video. Yes, it's for Rome 2 but 95% of the what is explained there works in the older games in regards to unit control (and basic camera usage for Empire and newer games).

I still recommend you leave the advisers on because while they do explain everything for you, they do it at a drip feed, and requires you basically click on everything carefully so you don't trigger them before they finish one topic. They are extremely serviceable for the advice they give specifically for each game.

Start up a campaign instead
Most people will spend a majority of their hours in a Total War game playing the campaign(s). These are basically two games rolled into one, where you play the game on a big Risk-like map of the world, while you play those battles where you tell your groups of sweaty, muscly men to go kill the other group of sweaty, muscly men. If you are absolutely new, pick the factions with a easy start position to give you more time to get used to everything. The hard starts really are hard, with poo poo coming at you the moment you hit end turn, if not starting you knee-deep in poo poo.

Essentially, campaigns break down into two distinct layers:
1) The campaign map: a STRATEGIC, TURN-BASED layer and
2) The battle map: a TACTICAL, REAL-TIME layer

The Campaign Map
In any Total War game, this is the part where you play it in a turn-based fashion. You take your turn doing whatever you want at your leisure, then you end your turn when you've got nothing else you can do or you need to pass the time (preferably in that order). All the other factions/countries/etc. take their turns and it's back to you. Anything the other factions do to you on their turn, you will have a chance to react to.

The campaign map serves as a sandbox for you to take a faction and have them conquer the map in whichever way you deem fit within a time limit and with certain victory conditions. Simple as that.

From the strategic layer, you raise armies and recruit new units. You then move those armies around and you use them to go fight other armies and use them to take over other regions by capturing settlements.

Another thing that you can do on the strategy layer is recruit agents, which are single characters that you can use to do certain things to other actors in the game (armies, agents, settlements) like assassinate another character or accompany an army to buff them.

Actors like agents and armies/fleets have limited movement in movement points that limits where they can move in the turn.

The map is divided into different regions, and these are the discrete building blocks of your empires in Total War. You manage building infrastructure in regions you control to support your economy: you have to balance buildings that increase the wealth, happiness, growth of a region, as well as unit recruitment. Units cost money to recruit and/or maintain, so you need to maintain a stable economy to keep your war machine going. Upgrading your infrastructure also supports your war machine by letting you recruit better/advanced units or making them better in some way (more experienced, better equipment), or allowing you to move stuff around faster.

You also conduct diplomacy with other factions, research (Empire and newer), exploration, trade and a few other things from this layer.

Research (from Empire and onward) is basically a technology tree that doles out new units/unit abilities/buildings/infrastructure improvements/etc.

Diplomacy from declaring war/making peace to making vassals are all conducted from the diplomacy screen (you need an diplomat agent in Medieval 2 and older games though to do anything but declare war). Usually things like making peace, allies, trade are a stopgap before you go on conquering everything, while providing you with some leeway to how you want to do it if you want to make alliance blocs or to double check that declaring war on someone won't drag five other factions into war against you (either all at once or sending everyone into a gradual hate spiral), or that it won't piss off your shaky ally into breaking trade agreements with you, causing your economy to grind to a halt.

For starters you want to conduct diplomacy to trade with other factions if you can; this will net you some extra income as well as some favour towards a faction if you do. This is always a good starting place if you want to build better relations with a faction. In later games, resources are traded and trade can help if you want to improve your infrastructure, as they will require you have access to certain resources. There isn't too much nuance in diplomacy in a Total War game (it is called Total War after all) but there is enough in it to encourage its use.

When armies clash, you go into the tactical layer of the game, or the battle map.

The Battle Map
This is where battles take place in Total War games. Whatever units the involving armies were made up of and their conditions on the campaign map will be represented on the battle map. I will cover what are the majority of fights you will play a Total War game, which are pitched field battles.

Battles are fought in real-time but if you're playing against the AI you also have control to the speed controls to pause/slow down/speed up the battles. I'd recommend you pause if you feel overwhelmed at any point during a fight. You do not need Korean StarCraft rock star god ubermicro to play Total War battles, not even in MP. What usually wins battles is the applying the proper units to the right places during a battle. Battles in Total War are about maneuvers and bringing the right army to the fight.

In battles, the goal isn't necessarily to eliminate the entire enemy force, but to make them rout and run away like a bunch of babies. Units have morale and if you can reduce their morale to zero, they will stop fighting and instead opt to run off the battlefield.

There are plenty of ways to break an enemy unit's morale, the most common way is to kill them. The faster you kill them, the faster their morale breaks. Flanking a unit is usually the go-to maneuver, because that typically means a unit is being attacked both in front (which it's prepared for) and from the sides/behind (which it isn't) and will start taking losses even faster. Barring that, you need massive superiority (both quantity and quality) to kill the enemy faster than they're killing yours.

How do I deploy my army?
The one huge problem in Total War games is that no one ever really teaches new players how to deploy an army unless you are coincidentally a military historian, nor does the game really fully explain what your units actually do besides that you right click them to get them into fights.

There are many, many different ways to deploy armies in Total War games, and a lot of it has to do with what units were in your army that you brought to the fight (i.e. units you recruited during your turns in the campaign in the first place). How comfortable you are with battles also determines what units you recruit in the campaign, but a few fundamentals exist in the general sense. They differ from game, faction, playstyle per faction, etc. but the general builds are the same. You are also free to experiment from there.

In the broadest sense, army composition depends on these roles:
  • Infantry: the men who do the fighting and dying, and usually your main core of units that make up a good portion of your armies. Multipurpose.
  • Cavalry: Usually found on your flanks at the start, you use them to chase down more vulnerable units or to flank the enemy's units after your infantry are engaged with one another. Generally multipurpose but biased towards flanking use.
  • Skirmishers/Light Infantry: for screening your main force, these are generally the ranged units like archers. Screening means you use them in advance of your attack to absorb enemy missile fire so they don't have any left on your actual men. They can also be used to flank, or defensively after they retreat to the flanks/behind when the main infantry line engage. They usually will poo poo their pants in an actual fight or just at the sight of cavalry coming at them.
  • Artillery: Depending on the era the game you are playing, they are "nice to have" or "the fury of a thousand suns". Almost required in gunpowder armies.

Refer to this image for the most basic and balanced deployment setup:

From that you can play around with it. (I'm also too lazy to make any more so just use that as a reference point)

For the sword/spear/bow/horse games:
For absolute starters, familiarize yourself with the basic procedure of "fix and flank", or better known as The Hammer and Anvil tactic.

Your main line: Bring a core of infantry. They generally have swords or spears and their job is to get in fights. These are for holding down the other enemy's core of infantry. The fight begins when someone commits their line towards the other and they smash into each other. They don't have to be the best of the best, but the better they are, the longer they will hold the line before they run, which means you have more time to maneuver. Generally, just select all your tougher infantry and drag them out to a thin line, keeping them maybe 3-5 ranks/men deep - this is usually a good balance of length and depth of a battle line. If you are afraid if your line being weak, you can place units behind them as reserves to bring up to the front if needed.

Skirmishers: place them in front offensively or behind when on the defensive. If you are confident with maneuvering them on the flanks, they are just as good as cavalry. But remember they are usually light infantry so they are extremely vulnerable to cavalry but can outrun most heavier infantry if they need to turn tail.

Calvary: bring a comfortable amount (usually 2 to 4) to use for charging into the enemy's flanks after the lines meet. People usually hit the enemy's line from the flanks and work towards the center (because this also frees up infantry from your flanks to help maneuver with). They can also chase away/kill/rout skirmishers if needed.

For gunpowder games:
Your main line: Line infantry of varying degrees of quality. Drag them out as thin as you can to maximize fire, though be careful as though 2 rank deep formations provide really good fire, they are vulnerable to being charged and surrounded since they have no depth. You usually have one flank slowly crawl up the side and fire towards the enemy's line's flank. Just slowly progress until you've killed more of them and routed them. Usually your perfect straight battle line at the start devolves into a V, U or W when you're done.

Skirmishers (and some other infantry): They usually are better than line infantry at something but suck in being main line infantry (standing and shooting and dying). They are either skirmishers (don't line up in neat lines to be shot at), or have better range/accuracy as snipers, or other abilities like throwing grenades but have much less men per unit. Use them as specialist infantry on the flanks or to screen.

Cavalry: Take a bit of a backseat because though they can charge thin lines, a frontal charge towards musket fire will almost always just instantly rout them. And just because line infantry shooting at line infantry will generally resolve one another as long as you are maneuvering something. Generally used for chasing down cannon crews or routing units. Some cavalry are dragoons and are basically line infantry on horses - you can run them towards the enemy's flanks, dismount them and they start firing, then pack them up and continue on. Make sure that if you are attacking line infantry with melee cavalry it is from behind and they don't have time to brace for it by doing stuff like going into square formation or turning around to give you a volley of gunfire.

Artillery: The fist of an angry god. Unless you are really confident at maneuvering on the field with just infantry and cavalry, make sure to bring cannons - they are a force multiplier, being able to fire across the map and ruin someone's day. They either go on the flanks of your line infantry or at the center while your infantry surround it. That or find them a good elevated position to fire from.

Total War: Shogun 2 - Fall of the Samurai (But I'll just use Fall of the Samurai) is the latest stand alone expansion (expandalone) to their award winning Total War franchise. A game of thrilling tactical combat and grand campaign strategy, this latest installment covers the Boshin War in 1864, an epic clash between the Imperial throne and the Shogunate in a time of steam, rail and guns.

Total War: Shogun 2 - Samurai of the Fall is due to be released on March 24, 2012OUT NOW!.

I'm intrigued, tell me more!

The game consists of two seperate but connected components: Real time battles and Turn based campaign.

In the Campaign sections of the game you will manage your empire, from the growth of it's economic engine, to the construction of mighty armies and fleets as well as dealing with the diplomatic realities that come with being a ruler. In this component you can move your armies into battle or order your agents to duel a hated enemy, there are many options in your quest to ensure supremacy for your faction.

The Real time battles are launched when your armies engage an enemy force. You will command your troops against their hated foes and your skill as a general will change the course of the campaign game. This is the major attraction to the Total War series, with it's lush graphics and detailed tactical combat that weaves stories and life into the game.

Naval battles return in Total Samurai: Shogun 2 - War of the Fall, with the most modern ships to date!

I already have Shogun 2, what's new with this?

As the game with the most modern setting of the Total War games, there are a myriad of new and exciting things to use in Fall of the Samurai. Trade with the major nations of France, Great Britain and the United States of America are now possible and strengthening ties with them allows the use of their military technology, such as deploying the Royal Marines and Ironclads or the use of the mighty Gatling Gun.

It is now also possible to go into third person control mode and aim your field artillery yourself in the heat of combat. If you have ever wanted to machinegun down hundreds of opposing soldiers as they foolishly charge your gun emplacements, now is your chance!

In addition, ships have recieved a full overhaul. They are now able to bombard units on the campaign map as well as during combat. If you have a friendly fleet within range, you can call in a strike against fortified enemy positions, but be careful to not hit your own troops.

There are also coastal bombardments and sea defences, dealing with their mighty cannon emplacements.

Battles are now larger than ever, with the new engine allowing 40 units vs 40 units, compared with the old 20 unit cap.

Do I need to buy Shogun 2 in order to play?

No, you do not. Despite being billed as an expansion, the game is completely stand alone. While there are some benefits to owning Shogun 2, it is not required to play War: Total Fall 2 - Shogun of the Samurai.

What benefits are there to owning Shogun 2 then?

Multiplayer has not been split, owners of Shogun 2 can play owners of Samurai Fall: Total 2 - War of the Shogun and vice versa. However, there are seperate avatars and army builders for each game and you can only use one that you own.

How long are the turns?

Each turn has been shortened to two weeks. This means winter is now a brutal six turns long and should play a much larger part in planning offensives than in previous games.

Is the suicidal AI of Empire back?

From all reports, the AI is significantly more intelligent about combat using firearms than in previous games. Given the substantially improved AI in Shogun 2, I think we can be cautiously optomistic that this will continue in Fall of the Samurai.

What difficulty options are available?

The difficulty options are the same as in Shogun 2 : Easy, Normal, Hard, Very Hard and Legendary. Opponents over Normal get bonuses, both in reduced information available to the player (can't see enemy units exact stats) and in resources, as well as enhanced intelligence.

What are the reviewers saying?

Currently the previews are sounding very positive, backed up by the goon seal of approval on the original Shogun 2, I think we could have something special.

Rock Paper, Shotgun
PC Gamer
Strategy Informer

The Imperials versus the Shogunate, which clan am I?

You can be any of six clans in the regular version:
Shogunate clans:

Imperial clans:

Regular version? Does this mean there are limited editions?

Yes, although they are a cause of contention at the moment. There are currently three different special editions each with differing extras and none which has all of them.

Pre-orders at bricks and mortar stores recieve:

The Limited Edition exclusive Saga faction pack, "The Emperor’s Diligence" - Centuries of trade with outsiders has given the people of Saga an understanding of foreign and modern ways, allowing them to adopt new military technology quickly. This additional in-game faction is only available in the Limited Edition.

The Limited Edition double-sided poster - featuring two stunning game artworks

Limited Edition packaging sleeve

Pre-orders from Sega's online store recieve:

The SEGA Store pre-order exclusive Obama faction pack, "The Overseers" - With long experience of government and administration, the authoritarian people of Obama are unsurpassed in controlling people and trade.

Steam pre-orders recieve:

The Steam exclusive Tsu faction pack, "The Emperor’s Cunning" - Rising from humble roots, the people of Tsu are wise, artful and astute strategists. Their use of Ninja is unsurpassed on the battlefield and in covert operations. This additional in-game faction is only available in the Steam Special Edition.

The game original soundtrack - selected songs from the original game soundtrack by Jeff van Dyck.

I heard Realm Divide has been changed? I hated how gamey it felt!

Yes, Realm Divide has now been modified. Upon reaching Realm Divide, Japan will split into two teams, the Imperial faction and the Shogunate faction. No longer is it simply you versus all of Japan! Of course, if you really want to take on everyone, you can wave the banner of a Japanese republic and bow to no man!

Multiplayer Information

Fall of the Samurai integrates with the current Shogun 2 multiplayer to allow seamless battles between owners of either game. There are several multiplayer options available in Fall of the Samurai: Multiplayer Campaign, Avatar Conquest and Custom Battle.

Multiplayer Campaign returns in Fall of the Samurai and allows two players to take over Japan side by side in the co-operative mode or head to head in the conquest mode. While this gametype has some issues (desyncs), it generally works very well and is a real blast.

Avatar Conquest has been overhauled for Fall of the Samurai, with an entirely new army builder and avatar specific to Fall of the Samurai armies.

It includes:

New Conquest map reflecting the 19th century setting

Brand-new Fall of the Samurai avatar, including:
Over 40 new retainers
Over 30 new armour pieces
New 19th century avatar skill tree

Multiple avatars: players can enjoy multiple careers and progression across Shogun 2 and Fall of The Samurai

Custom Battle remains the same as ever, purchase your armies and do battle with them over the internet.

System Requirements


OS: Windows 7 / Vista / XP
Processor: 2 GHz Intel Dual Core processor / 2.6 GHz Intel Single Core processor , or AMD equivalent (with SSE2)
Memory: 1GB RAM (XP), 2GB RAM (Vista / Windows7)
Graphics: 256 MB DirectX 9.0c compatible graphics card (shader model 3)
DirectX®: DirectX 9.0c
Hard Drive: 20GB free hard disk space
Screen Resolution: 1024x768


OS: Windows 7 / Vista / XP
Processor: 2nd Generation Intel⪚ Core™i5 processor (or greater), or AMD equivalent
Memory: 2GB RAM (XP), 4GB RAM (Vista / Windows7)
Graphics: AMD Radeon HD 5000 and 6000 series graphics cards or equivalent DirectX 11 compatible graphics card
Hard Drive: 20GB free hard disk space
Screen Resolution: 1280x1024

Reveal Trailer 1 - Year of the Dragon:
Reveal Trailer 2 - The Winds of Change:
Reveal Trailer 3 - Smoke and Steel:
Gamespot Preview :

Fall of the Samurai Official Page:
Goons Total War PGS Thread:
Goons Total War Steam Group:

Extra Images

Thanks to Ham for the Total War: Shogun 2 OP!

Shogun 2 Total War is the newest instalment from Creative Assembly’s ‘Grand Strategy’ series Total War. Taking place in the 16th Century, Shogun 2 revisits feudal Japan during the Sengoku Era where the first iteration of the series took place back in 2000. Shogun 2 is out right now, go buy it!

What the hell kinda game is this?

Like all Total War games, the singleplayer campaign consists of two game modes: campaign mode and battle mode. Campaign mode gives you a general overview of Japan where you can manage your cities, build your armies and move them to attack other clans, marry off your daughters and a whole assortment of other things in order to accomplish a set of objectives which can include becoming the new shogun. When it's time for battle, the game gives you the option of switching to battle mode and duking it out with the other army, the real meat and bones of the game.

One of the new features introduced in Empire was naval battles and these make a return in Total War: Shogun 2 (yea it's a horrible name swap, I'm not bothering with it) but they're much simpler and involve some unique ships such as mine-layers.

How is this game different from previous iterations of the series?

The main difference is setting. The game is set in feudal Japan and most combat is done with melee weapons such as katanas, spears, no-dachis, naginatas and ranged weapons such as bows and mangonels. Matchlocks do exist but they're kinda shoddy and you have to adopt Christianity to have them. The game also features a return of the "family" system where you manage the royal family, in this game the daimyo's family. Some of these features include marrying off daughters, assigning certain ranks to family members or generals and managing retainers and skills.

How long does a campaign take? How many turns are there?

It really depends on your playstyle, some people like to take it slow while others like to rush on easy mode. The game takes place in the span of 50 years during the Sengoku period of Japanese history, which means you have 200 turns to accomplish the objectives, since each turn is a season now. The game begins in 1545.

Has the AI been improved? I remember previous Total War games being horrible!

It seems like yes, the AI is actually much smarter than all previous games at least from early goon trip reports. People have been playing a modded version of the demo that allows unscripted battle AI and it's pretty challenging which is a good sign. From all the reviews out so far, the AI doesn't seem to have been revolutionized but it is vastly improved over older Total War games.

How is the difficulty variance in this game?

The game allows you to choose between Easy, Normal, Hard and Very Hard. In previous games, choosing anything over Normal meant giving unfair bonuses to the AI like increased morale, better defence stats etc, but from the reviews I've read it seems like they might have changed this and made the AI much smarter in the higher difficulties.

Wait, WHAT! I can't go VH/N anymore? There's only one difficulty option!

This one is odd, but it turns out you can. After you choose game difficulty while picking a clan, you can change specific difficulty settings inside the campaign itself from "Game Settings.

Well what about that 'Legendary' difficulty then? I hear it's pretty good!

Legendary Difficulty is something new CA is introducing into the game and it caters much more to realism, at least in battles.

Yeah pretty brutal.

I got burned bad on Empire Total War, should I buy this

So far the game's only been getting 8+ reviews, but you should wait till goons who have already bought it try it out.

Reviews so far:

EuroGamer: 9/10
Strategy Informer: 9.2/10
VE3D: 4.5/5
Rock Paper Shotgun 8/10
Edge Magazine: 9/10

Ok I guess this game could be fun, what factions can you play as?

These Japanese clans:


Plus there's the Hattori ninja clan but that's only unlocked for people who buy the limited edition.

Each of these clans have their own distinct advantages. For example the Takeda get the cheapest and best cavalry units, while the Mori get the cheapest and highest quality ships + increased naval trade income.

Are there any limited editions?

Yes, there's a limited retail edition not available on Steam that retails for $50.

There's also regional collector's editions, check with your retailer.

System Specs:


* 2 GHz Intel Dual Core processor / 2.6 GHz Intel Single Core processor , or AMD equivalent (with SSE2)
* 1GB RAM (XP), 2GB RAM (Vista / Windows7)
* 256 MB DirectX 9.0c compatible graphics card (shader model 3)
* 1024×768 minimum screen resolution
* 20GB free hard disk space


* 2nd Generation Intel® Core™i5 processor (or greater), or AMD equivalent
* 2GB RAM (XP), 4GB RAM (Vista / Windows7)
* AMD Radeon HD 5000 and 6000 series graphics cards or equivalent DirectX 11 compatible graphics card
* 1280×1024 minimum screen resolution
* 20GB free hard disk space


Traditional Japanese artwork that CA is using to illustrate Shogun 2(More can be found on the official site):


EG Expo Presentation:
Announcement Trailer:
Shodo Trailer:
Shogun 2 Official Launch Trailer:
First Multiplayer Walkthrough:


Shogun 2 Official Page:
Goons Total War PGS Thread:
Goons Total War Steam Group:
Eurogamer Screenshot Page:

Multiplayer Info

There's 2 modes to the multiplayer, apart from the normal host/join battle. The Multiplayer Campaign (2 players) makes a return in Shogun 2, and can be played in either versus or co-op. There's a new mode where groups of people can join a clan with a designated clan leader and engage in a sort of metagame on a 2D map of Japan with other player clans, engaging in battles against them or other people and advancing to higher multiplayer ladders. Also completely new, your general is now your online avatar that you can customize, name and gain experience, which unlocks better skills to increase his lethality, survivability and effects in battle as well as stylish pink armor. You can also collect retainers by winning in the conquest map and achieving higher levels. All in all, it's very RPGey.

Shalcar's additional DLC information

Shogun 2 DLC

As is common with most major modern titles, Shogun 2 has additional paid downloadable content (DLC). The currently available Shogun 2 DLC is as follows:

Sengoku Jidai DLC pack

This DLC Unit Pack adds 10 new units available for use in both the single player and multiplayer modes of Shogun 2. These units are:

Bulletproof Samurai - Date Clan
These heavily armoured spear troops are walking tanks, with armour that can resist a matchlock bullet! Such protection comes with a price, they are slow and tire easily but have the potential for short bursts of speed!

Marathon Monk - Uesugi or Ikko Ikki
Able to run for days without tiring, these monks run with speed and grace unseen by lesser men. Armed with might naginatas, they fly across the battlefield and engage the enemy with vigor. Should they tire, they can count upon a second wind to see them through.

Hand Mortar - Hojo Clan
Able to lob explosive shells over vast distances and high walls, these siege masters are capable of inflicting terrible damage upon their foes from afar. However, their equipment is heavy and their armour light, making them vunerable to arrows and melee.

Heavy Gunner - Shimazu Clan
Armed with hand cannon, these warriors can fire bullets that cleave through flesh and armour alike. Able to fire shots that penetrate through multiple men, these terrors of the battlefield can reap a deadly harvest.

Wako Raider - Mori Clan
Pirates armed with a deadly katana, these men are well versed in the art of deciet and trickery. Able to hide in plain sight while walking and to deploy anywhere on the battlefield, these are warriors not to be taken lightly.

Mounted Gunner - Tokugawa Clan
Cavalrymen armed with matchlock, these samurai are able to apply deadly lead to targets with unparalleled swiftness. Despite poor reloading time, their volley power and mobility make them a terror on the battlefield.

Bandit - Hattori Clan
Bandits armed with bows, these men are master of stealth and suprise strikes. Able to hide in plain sight and while walking, these men are masters of attacking from an unexpected direction.

Long-Yari Ashigaru - Oda Clan
Closer to a pike than a traditional yari, these soldiers are terrors towards mounted foes. Able to annihilate cavalry faster than yari samurai and still able to perform against katana units, Long-Yari Ashigaru are a defensive powerhouse limited only by their below average morale.

Fire Cavalary - Takeda Clan
Powerful heavy cavalry that rival Great Guard, these mighty samurai strike terror into the hearts of their enemies. Inflicting devestating charges and unsurpassed melee ability, these masters of the battlefield fear nothing except their weakness, yari troops.

Daikyu Samurai - Chosokabe Clan
These samurai are armed with powerful longbows, the Daikyu, which boasts an extended range and exceptional killing power. More numerous and armoured than their monk brothers, these samurai deliver exceptional long range punch and accurate fire from long distance.

Ikko Ikki Clan Pack

Adding the famous ashigaru and monk rebellion faction the Ikko Ikki for use in the single player campaign, this faction believes that the samurai are tyrants opressing the natural order of things. With a brand new agent, the Ikko Ikki monk, they seek to free thee opressed. Adding 8 new units exclusive to the Ikko Ikki and new skill trees for their agents, this DLC adds a new flavour to the traditional Shogun 2 campaign.

In addition, this DLC adds:

The mighty Warrior Nun, available to every faction except the Ikko Ikki. More elite than Naginata Warrior Monks but lacking numbers and Warcry, these fearsome women are ready to fight for Japan.

The Warrior Monk Hero represents the elite of the elite, monks that even other monks hold in awe. The only thing more awe insipring than their battlefield prowess is their cost.

A new historical battle: Nagashima. This famous conflict between the Ikko Ikki and the Oda. To whom belongs the heart of the ashigaru?

Ikko Ikki armour for your multiplayer avatar. Includes a headpiece, robes and barefoot leggings.

Brand new retainers focused on ashigaru and monks for use in Avatar Conquest multiplayer mode.

Hattori Clan Pack

This DLC adds the Hattori to the list of available factions in the single player campaign. The Hattori are master ninjas, with all of their samurai units having kisho training, able to deploy anywhere on the battlefield. This extra training comes at a price however and samurai units have higher upkeep. Their ninjas are also more skilled than other clans.

Blood Pack DLC

Inspired by traditional japanese movies, this adds blood into total war battles in a serious way. Units bleed when hit, powerful strikes are capable of removing heads and limbs and samurai will be covered in the blood of the fallen. Available as a toggle in the options menu, you can now enable stylized blood into your Total War battles. This DLC is also compatible with the Fall of the Samurai expansion.

Rise of the Samurai Campaign

A complete revamp and miniture expansion of the grand campaign, Rise of the Samurai takes place during the Gempei War 400 years before the events of the main campaign. Featuring all new agents, units and a building tree, Rise of the Samurai is similar in scope to the Kingdoms expansion for Medieval 2.

SeanBeansShako's Napolean Information!

Napoleon: Total War™ is the new chapter to the critically acclaimed Total War™ series and opens up a new narrative layer to the genre-defining franchise. From the early Italian campaign to the battle of Waterloo, Napoleon covers two decades of relentless battles, a backdrop of a world in flames against which the story of an extraordinary military career unfolds.


- The genre-defining franchise brings Napoleon to life.
- Napoleon: Total War defines a new standard within the genre with exciting characters and a cinematic narrative, mind-blowing battle sequences and an unrivaled mix of turn-based and real-time strategy.
- Three new episodic campaigns
- Take command and lead your armies on land and sea over three campaigns: Italy, Egypt and Mastery of Europe. The seamless mix of objective-based missions and sandbox experience makes this the most complete Total War experience to date.
- Cutting-edge multiplayer
- Napoleon features fully integrated multiplayer modes and a complete set of online functionality: Steam achievements, gameplay bonuses, uniform editor and voice communications.
- All new Napoleonic battles and units
- Advanced weaponry enables new tactical options and even more exciting real-time battles on an epic scale, while the highly detailed environments and improved battlefield buildings guarantee a realistic recreation of famous historical battles.

SeanBeanShakos Napoleon And Empire Total War DLC Guide!

Ah DLC, the greatest curse and sometimes gift for modern gaming enthusiasts. Lets not beat about the bush for this. I'm just going to throw up a quick guide on which DLC for the musket Total War games and let you decide what you is good value and what isn't. If you are determined to buy this stuff I suggest tossing ten bucks, pounds or euros in your STEAM wallet and start cherry picking.

I'd advise you if you are also interested to join the STEAM Goon Group and just wait for me to post notices about Total War sales. They usually do discounts when they release either a new product or major DLC bundles for the newest game. Keep in mind modders have reskinned some of the base games soldiers with equally impressive looking soldiers when it comes to the unit packs.

For Empire if you can't be bothered with modding I do suggest picking up all the unit packs on the fly as the default unit art can get a little bland looking at after a while. For Napoleons unit pack however unless you are an enthusiast you won't really need it.

Campaign DLC

These ones are usually the best ones to get as they do add actual new content to the game with features, factions or a expanded campaign map.

Empire Total War

Warpath Campaign:

This campaign essentially expands and fleshes out the Native American factions of North America allowing you to become the Big Chief and kick our those snooty Europeans. You get a unique tech tree that gives you the choices of embracing 18th century European tech or keeping things traditional with guerilla warfare. The new Indian factions are Iroquois, Huron, Plains, Pueblo and the Cherokee nations. North America gets a much needed expansion size wise and the campaigns give you a new starting date. Also new Native American themed UI and Agents.

Napoleon Total War

The Peninsular Campaign:

Oh poo poo now things are getting real. First off if you buy only one NTW DLC this is the one you should get no hesitation. Set in 1811 in a hugely detailed new campaign map of Spain, Portugal and Southern France and the sea around it is the beginning of the fight for Spanish Independence or Dominance. You get to pick playing The British who need to take and hold the coast Portual and western spain to keep their trade rolling, the defeated but not out Spanish Royalist forces who use covert guerilla tactics or the heavily numbered French Armies who are not just fighting for the land but for the soul of the people. Introducing political unrest that can easily spawn enemy partisans or pro-French rebels to harass regional occupiers this campaign gives you a challenge for once in expansion.

There is the usual new stuff too, some unique and new units (28 new units!) for the time peroid and region including the 95th Rifles that actually look like they do in the Sharpe TV series and a much better looking Spanish reskins. New agents too that help fight or stir up political rebellion in the settlements and enemy armies too as well as missions and objective for all three factions. Oh and there is new STEAM achivements too if that is your thing.

Unit and Map Add Ons

These DLCs are essentially just reskin and new soldier models slotted into the base games campaigns and some new Historical battle maps.

Empire Total War

Elite Units of The West: AKA Elite Units of Europe this pack adds Elite line infantry, heavy cav and Grenadiers to most of the Western nations lacking variety in base Empire. Notable inclusions are the US Marines for the American Campaign, Swiss Guards for France and the Prussian Frei-Corp Cav.

Elite Units of The East: This is the most interesting one IMO giving the Ottoman Empire and Maratha with a much needed variety of light infantry, several types of cav. Ottomans get the infamous Palestinian Auxiliaries and Mounted Nizam-I-Cedit.

Elite Units of America: This gives the United Kingdom Colonial and British Infantry and the American Colonies a varied amount of light, cav and line infantry that makes the eventual civil war much more interesting. Soldiers such as Royal Welch Fusiliers (Britain), Lee's Legion (United States), the infamous 33rd of Foot (British) or 1st Maryland (United States).

Special Forces Units: Basically these were all the pre-order units and Special Edition DLC in one post release package. If you ever want to build HMS Victory or the USS Constituion get this because the other units are pretty much generic independent pirate/merc/guerilla light infantry and not worth caring about. The only possible interesting land unit is the Deaths Head Hussars. Oh and of course the Deadly but stationary ORGAN GUN OF DEATH.

Napoleon Total War

Coalition Battle Pack: Adds six Elite Regiments to the Coalition Nations unit list and the Historical battle of Friedland which is the French versus the Russians. The British get two new units as do the Prussians whilst Russia and Austria get one.

Napoleon Total War Imperial Elite DLC: This essentially comes with the GOTY Edition and the Combo Pack with Empire basically giving you I think eleven unique elite reigments of all kinds for for Napoleonic France and the Coalition nations.

shalcar fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Oct 5, 2014


Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Title: Empire: Total War.
Developer: The Creative Assembly.
Location: Horsham Studios.
Publiser: Sega.
Release date: EU: 6th March 2009 US: 3rd March 2009
Studio Director: Mike Simpson
Minimum and recommended specs:
2.4Ghz single core processor
256MB Gfx card (DX9 compaitble)
1GB RAM (For XP, 2GB if using Vista)
Time Period: The game is set in the years 1700 to the early 1800's, a turbulent age of gunpowder, revolution, discovery and Empire Building.

Victory conditions: the player's aim is to create the greatest Republic or Empire the world has known, spanning not just a continent but the world! Can you hold on to lands in the New World, or establish a rich trading empire in the Indies?

About The Game:

Empire: Total War is about exploration and conquest, founding colonies and fighting wars away from home, and is an epic strategy game spanning the 18th and early 19th centuries, in which you direct your nation to dominate Europe, North Africa, America, and India. The player will use both complex strategies on the campaign map and fierce commands on the battlefield—both on land and sea. The game will feature gameplay correlating with that of the previous games in the Total War series, but with major additions to the campaign map and battlefield.

Campaign map:
- An all-new fully animated campaign map with all buildings and upgrades visible, upgrades are done by clicking on them on the Strategic Map.
- New improved systems for Trade, Diplomacy, Missions and Espionage in that Diplomats, Spies and Assassins will no longer be represented on the map.
- A refined and streamlined UI.
- Improved Advisors and tutorials.
- Queens are portrayed: According to Mike Brunton "But given that there's Queen Anne and Catherine the Great and Empress Marie-Therese, we'd be a bit remiss not to include proper queen-type queens, now wouldn't we?"
- New agents and diplomacy traits functions are also planned, but no details are known about that yet.
- Revolutions can happen, leading to the separation of countries. (As an example, a rebellion of the Scotts was given).
- Enhanced auto management.
- The big change for the fans is the reinvention of army movement. "It's fair to say that the campaign map in Rome and Medieval was divided into army-sized tiles, "Each tile could hold one army. In Empire, there's no tiling system. The player will never see any type of tiling artefact - it's entirely freeform. It's like taking the squares off the chessboard."
- Slavery appears, but it's not something you can actively get involved in.
- You will be able to build colonies. It will make a difference, whether you settle in the wilderness of the Americas, or whether you can use preexisting infrastructure in India.
- Each nation will still have a capital.
- You can change the form of government between: absolute monarchy, constitutional monarchy, and Republic. This will directly influence how you can deal with revolts and how fast you develop new technologies. Other factions will treat you according to your form of government.
- Taxes can be set seperately for Nobles, Burghers, and Peasants.
- The event movies will be in aswell, as there are already some screenshots from them too.
- We are working hard to ensure that naval battles assume a greater significance on the campaign map as well and that fleets really project power rather than just being transport containers for armies.
- For the first time, we are actually having a technology tree that lets player's research pure technologies as well as construct and upgrade buildings. We have a host of different technologies that the player can choose to focus on. Some will give units new abilities on the battlefield, or allow your artillery to develop new types of ordnance. Some will improve ships' sailing and fighting performance, others will develop your economy and enable new buildings and infrastructure, and others will advance the educational level of your nation and speed up future research.
- Religion plays a role in the game, but it doesn't play such as central part as in the medieval era. Religion does have an impact on happiness levels, and conversion can still help bring a newly conquered region under your control.
- We've really beefed up the diplomacy side of the game, and tried hard to make the AI factions behave in a more human way and respond to the player's treatment of them. Religion does play a role in terms of factions' attitudes towards each other, and it can be harder to maintain a close friendship with a faction with a different religion.

- Europe
- East coast and central United States and Central America.
- India

Historical figures:
- Peter The Great
- Malborough
- Charles XII of Sweden.
- Wellington.
- According to Mike Simpson, there's even a possibility to have Napoleon himself in your own ranks when around the end of the century you recruit an artillery unit in Corsica.

- Britain
- France
- Sweden
- United Provinces(Netherlands)
- United States
- Russia
- Venice
- Spain
- Poland-Lithuania
- Ottoman
- Prussia

Non-playable: approximatly 40.

Land Battles:
- Maximum of twenty regiments (according to James Russell in PC Gameplay).
- Real time battles will pose new challenges with the addition of cannon and musket, challenging players to master new formations and tactics as a result of the increasing role of gunpowder within warfare.
- Capturing and occupying key buildings around the map. They will automatically take up defensive positions and fire out of windows/doors. You'll need to be careful however, because artillery can destroy buildings.
- Using cover, such as behind walls.
- Sound will be adjusted and improved so that the battlefields will become much more alive!
- On the battle map (both land and sea), the increase in visual quality and the number of men on the battlefield is incredible. The new engine has allowed huge improvements in graphics, terrain & vegetation, destructible buildings, as well as more advanced unit behaviour and abilities

- Heavy artillery in the form of cannons, mortar and early rocket launchers, with bouncing cannonballs who bounce differently depending on the surface they hit slicing through drifting gunsmoke to tear up lines of infantry.
- Cannons will seize up and explode.
- Well-organized batteries of cannon.
- We have artillery units, some of which can be limbered up and moved around the field at speed by teams of horses. You can develop all kinds of exotic ammo for them to fire.

- Bagpipes, drummers, flautists and trumpeters will fill the air with play out over the crack of musket fire, the boom of artillery and the thunderous charge of cavalry.
- Generals will bark out orders to their regiments as the player orchestrates the battle utilizing formations, unit abilities and drills.
- Formations: Line to mass their fire, Square to defend against cavalry charges or spread out in loose formation to minimize damage from cannon fire are all excellent tactics that the player will have to keep in mind.
- There will be a fire button. It's a sort of override tool so you can time your shot when you want to. And timing is critical. Let off muskets too early, and you won't do enough damage. Let off your muskets too late in the face of a cavalry charge, and you've got every chance of being crushed by a flying dead horse."
- There's more of an emphasis on fire in Empire, but that doesn't mean that shock isn't also a vital component of battle. (Most of your fire units will have a shock attack as well.)

- We have dragoon units -- mounted men that you can order to dismount and fire and attack the enemy as infantry. Then you can order them to mount up again and chase across the field on horseback.

- Weapons will jam and misfire.
- The field of conflict will become strewn with the bodies of wounded and dying men, lacerated by pike, bayonet and shot.
- Draw armies out of the cities, removing the dominance of sieges. That's being done by making region improvements - structures such as barracks, mines and palaces - exist outside of the city, vulnerable to attack. Generals can no longer afford to hide behind their city walls in the event of an invasion. They must sally forth and chase the aggressor away.

Sea Battles:
- 3D naval combat
- Intuitively command vast fleets or single ships
- After pummelling your enemy with cannon fire, close in to grapple their ship and prepare to board taking control of your men as they fight hand to hand on the decks.
- Once a ship is conquered by bordering it, you add it to your navy, but, this doesn't mean you can deploy it straight away, you'll have to return to a harbor, recruit a crue, repair damage to the ship before you're able to put it into service.
- Movement of ships is identical to the way land armies are moved, you have several harbors in which you can construct ships and these are then one at a time moved on the campaign map.
- Realistic sailing model. (Different wind conditions, different light conditions, different weather conditions).
Example: A gust of wind is caused by a whirlpool of wind moving vertically; they actually move quite slowly and cover quite large areas - you see it because it makes the surface of the water rough, and the rest shiny. It means you can build gameplay into entering and chasing gusts of wind, and using them to overtake an enemy fleet."
- There will be rigging. Stays, shrouds etc. (Exactly how detailed they will be will depend on performance).
- Cannon and musket fire.
- Boarding actions.
- A full and very detailed damage model . The cannonballs can knock down masts, damage the sails , riggings and hulls and they'll kill individual men. That obviously affects the manouvrability of your ships.
- Full range of weather effects to influence battles. These will play out on stunning, ultra-realistic seascapes, as cannons and muskets blaze away, cutting through the smoke and fog to splinter, pierce and shatter hulls, sails and masts, laying waste to crew members and sending them to Davy Jones' Locker.
- Ship-specific formations and admiral traits.
- Each ship takes up a single unit space.
- There will be reinforcements. (Cn Iulius Flamininus, 03/07/2008).
- You can capture ships, and that will be important. (Cn Iulius Flamininus, 03/07/2008).
- It will take a lot of money and time to build 1st rate ships of the line. (Cn Iulius Flamininus, 03/07/2008).
- Players can field fleets of up to 20 ships with each of about 100 men on board who will make sure there is utter chaos and explosions on board.
- Pirates are included.
- You'll have a variety of choices to make when engaging in naval combat. Your cannons can be directed to aim for the hull to sink an enemy, for the decks to clear the way for boarding action by your marines, or for the masts to reduce the enemy's speed and maneuverability.
- There are only enough crew members to man one side of a ship, so if you attack a ship from two sides you have an advantage.
- There will be various classes of vessel, which will essentially vary by maneuverability, speed, and firepower.
- Command your ships whether you want to aim at the sails or at the hull, or at the men on the decks. You can choose what ammunition to load (Three types).
- You'll see and feel it all: the wind in the sails, the choking atmosphere of the gun-deck as the crew frantically reload the cannons, the fights on deck... the man at the steering wheel, driving the boat. (we definatly need to read up on those nautical terms ).
- Seablockades can be performed to cripple the economy of other nations.

- Brand new graphics engine and technology which will include:
- Seascapes rich with extraordinary water and weather effects that play a huge role in your eventual glorious success or ignominious defeat.
- New advanced landscape and flora systems, dynamic weather and new battle choreography and occupy-able and destructible battlefield buildings.
- New ballistics and physics model.

- The game won't start full tilt with access to every single feature. Players will have the chance to wade around in the shallow end of the pool for a while before having to contend with all the options the game has to offer.
- Even when the other options start opening up, the team has reduced many of the management hassles that are present in the series. Recruiting big armies in Medieval II or in Rome require you to issue individual production orders in a number of different provinces. Empire will allow you to build large armies simply by recruiting units at your general. He'll then translate that request into production orders in nearby provinces.
- Similarly, players of previous Total War games have had to balance each of their provinces individually to maximize tax output and minimize unrest. Now, the game makes use of a more comprehensive tool to manage things across your entire empire.
- Given the time period, managing unrest is going to be a relatively important concern. As your society advances, your citizens will demand more and more freedom, which can definitely put a crimp in your own policies. You can choose to liberate them and become a modern enlightened state, or you could hold on to your power a little longer by crushing your people under an oppressive regime. Where previous games saw peoples aligned by religious affiliation, Empire will tend to focus more on this concept of political freedom as a component of happiness.
- Colonial regions also tend to produce exotic commodities such as sugar and tobacco.

Other games in the series:
Medieval 2: Total War
Medieval 2: Kingdoms
Rome: Total War
Medieval: Total War
Medieval: Viking Invasion
Shogun: Total War
Shogun: Mongol Invasion

Reserved for additional information about earlier Total War titles and links to mods.

If anyone wishes to write up a small information post for the older games, send me a PM so I can add it here.

shalcar fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Oct 5, 2014

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

SeanBeansShako posted:

We'll see what July holds for us. I've not exactly got my fingers crossed though for a renaissance at CA.

I don't think that CA really needs a renaissance though. The improvements between Napolean and Shogun 2 (especially with Fall of the Samurai) demonstrate a consistent improvement and refinement of the games. Now it's obvious that CA work on the game as the first priority and historical accuracy as something that's a distant second. I don't really mind that, although it's more important to some people.

I would hazard a guess that we are about to see Rome 2. The addition of ramming into Fall of the Samurai really looks like a way to bring naval combat into an interesting battle experience (note that none of the "ancient" games short of Shogun 2 have had naval battles) without cannons.

I agree that the battle AI could use some work, but it does it's job competently with occasional flashes of brilliance. If anything, it's often let down by the strategic AI not giving it all the tools or a coherent force in order for it to be able to perform at it's best. Ideally it would be more intelligent so that they could tone down the "cheating" that the computer gets on the harder difficulty levels, which I feel should be more balanced around taking away the player's omnipotent tools (like forcing Battle Realism mode) rather than giving the AI endless hordes. Of course, if the Realm Divide wasn't quite so "gamey" this wouldn't be that much of a problem. Fall of the Samurai is good for this, as your allies endless hordes tend to create a shifting front in the war that lets you feel like you are making a key contribution rather than the older Realm Divide which left you feeling swamped and felt unfair and arbitrary.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Plavski posted:

They claim it's because back in the days of medieval and before, the engine wasn't very complicated and lots of it was in text files and lose dds's. These days the engine is so huge that it's not feasible to have much of it open for one reason or another.

If you step back and think about how sloppy Empire was on release, imagine how bad it would've been if they've spent the time making it moddable.

Yeah, the Warscape engine was an absolute disaster on release and it's taken them years of work to get it to the solid condition it is today.

It's important to note that given the previous history with total war engines (2 games and then a new engine) we are likely to see a new and hopefully more moddable engine with their next game.

Regardless of the fact that Warscape is a disaster to mod (and likely held together with bailing wire in the backend) it would be a real shame to not play Shogun 2 because of it. It's really got the magic of Medieval/Rome with the quality of life improvement you would expect from a modern game. Don't buy the DLC if you have a major objection to it, but Creative Assembly are obviously trying, as they released the Editor recently to enable full map creation and we can hope that this is demonstrating a change for the better.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

VDay posted:

So I've completely forgotten how to play Shogun 2, what's the best way to take a castle? I bring cannons and take down the gates, defenses, and whatever units I can but then I run out of ammo and am stuck trying to assault 1,000 dudes that are all packed together and I'm too far from shore to bring in a naval strike. Should I just not attack if there's that many units defending?

In order to sieze a castle you need to be able to hit on multiple fronts and overwhelm the defenders, capturing the keep for the timer duration is often the easiest and least dangerous way to sieze the castle, since the enemy will fight to the death in the main courtyard. You can take advantage of the fact that the enemy will rout in the outer areas to break a flank and quickly capitalise on the ensuing chaos.

If you don't have the forces to overwhelm the enemy from multiple sides, then you should really be starving the defenders out, since a frontal assualt will tend to be pyrrhic with the defenders fighting to the last man.

The cannons should really be used to clear a path up the walls, since destroyed walls seem to be easier to climb and also don't provide cover for the units defending them.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Tomn posted:

I just autoresolve, myself. Much less hassle.

Autoresolve does have an interesting quirk in that it doesn't take fortifications into account when doing the strength calculations and resolution. It's often possible to take a fort with autoresolve that you couldn't hope to take in the realtime combat. By the same token, you should pretty much always fight your defensive battles in realtime as otherwise you are throwing away a huge advantage.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Shorter Than Some posted:

Am I the only person who actually likes tracers? I've just been looking at the modding scene for Empire and Napoleon and pretty much every single mod disables them or at least has them disabled by default.

Is it such a crime to want to know what is actually going on with your missile units at a glance?

You can basically cut the Total War fans into two camps, those that believe realism should take priority over gameplay and those that believe gameplay should be first.

CA has historically been in the gameplay first category (hence war pigs and such) and so has included tracers on the arrows. The mods tend to be of the opposite camp simply due to the fact that the base game is so often heavily biased towards gameplay over realism. Those mods are fairly similar to the "battle realism" mode that Shogun 2 comes with simply due to the fact that their targetted audience is so heavily composed of realism first types.

It's important to note that I am not saying any one choice is better than any other in objective terms, but the gameplay first approach does seem to move more items otherwise they would go for the pure realism style.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Diogines posted:

Darth Mod for Shogun 2 has way too many options to configure. What mods, if any, do people recommend? I am not interested in graphics mods, only gameplay ones.

Also, did anyone ever mod Napoleon to get a large, global campaign with the improved AI and other improvements that the game provided?

The base Shogun 2 gameplay is quite good and doesn't really need mods until you get bored with it or find out something thats a dealbreaker for you. Food is a bit of a pain in base shogun 2, but thats fixed in rise and fall since its in there as a way to prevent blitzkreig and those use other mechanics to prevent it instead.

Basically, play without mods to start and then let us know what you want changed so we can point you in the right direction. Its a great game unmodded.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Chomp8645 posted:

Does anyone here have experience doing coop campaigns in Napoleon? It's on super sale right now and I think it might be fun for myself and a friend. However I know that Shogun 2's coop was super FUBARed forever and even now barely qualifies as "working". I'd like to know how the two compare.

Uhhh, shogun 2 coop is nothing short of amazing now. It even resyncs in the event of a desync. It was dicey in vanilla, but its been really solid for a while now. In fact, I would recommend the game on the strength of the coop alone.

E: I'm curious where you heard the shogun 2 coop still barely qualifies as working?

shalcar fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Jul 18, 2012

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Total war pack (Every game from Napolean back) is the daily deal on steam for dirt cheap! Pick it up and round out your collection, its great value.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Kersch posted:

My brother and I played Shogun 2 co-op a bunch when it first came out, and every game would eventually exhibit more and more frequent desyncs followed by crashes until it became unreasonable to try and continue with work-arounds. We tried a game in Rise of the Samurai when it first came out and had just about the same experience. So, if it has gotten better than that since then, that's great, but probably anyone in the same boat as me has little confidence in Shogun 2 multiplayer campaigns. When did they finish hammering out the issues with desyncs?

Each patch has usually fixed a few, but the big one was the patch with fall which gave the game automatic resyncing rather than a desync error. I've played one vanilla campaign I had to abandon due to sync issues, two rise campaigns to completion but needed to sync a lot and two fall campaigns that I have never had to sync (one was 130 turns!) So however their resync tech works, it gives me a good game.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Omnicarus posted:

I think they have pretty much established a rhythm of Shogun -> Rome -> Medieval at this point, though I'd love for them to focus more on Renaissance Pike and Shot era rather than the 900's-1400's.

But it went shogun -> medieval -> rome -> medieval -> empire -> shogun -> rome?

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Unlucky7 posted:

Is Fall of the Samurai worth getting, once it gets a proper daily/flash deal on Steam? I already got the base Shogun 2 which I play sporadically (Its not that I don't like it, just that I find some of the mechanics hard to get my hear around.)

Absolutely, a new unit set, tech tree and mechanics make it fresh and have a completely different feel to the base game and rise. It also features realm divide done right.

Naval bombardment is worth the price of admission alone on the flash deal.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Zettace posted:

I believe Shogun 2 already has all the FotS data patched in so nothing extra needs to be downloaded. It also explains Shogun 2's large size.

This is correct. No new information needs to be downloaded, it just unlocks it in the menu.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

X_ThePerfect posted:

I picked up the Sega pack in the steam sale, so I've got all of the total war games. I really do enjoy them, but I'm genuinely pretty atrocious at them. Are there any recommended resources for the gap between the tutorials and actual competent play for the more recent games? Or just some general total war basics?

It tends to vary a bit between the games, which ones in particular were you having trouble with?

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

jivjov posted:

Just got a 60 mb patch for Shogun 2 with no patch notes. Anyone have any idea what got added/changed?

From CA:

Hi all,

Here's a few minor patch notes for today's little fix.

Fix for Co-operative Multiplayer Campaign victory conditions. The campaign will end when the victory conditions are met.
Increased the variant texture cache size on low, medium and high graphics settings to prevent bodies from twitching on the battle map.
Added DLC requirement string to Saints and Heroes unit tool tips in English, French, Italian, German, Spanish, Czech, Russian and Polish on the veteran selection screen.
The download bar will now show for clients when downloading user generated multiplayer battle maps.
Unit names will now appear correctly above the selected units in the unit stats roster in the battle lobby.
Desynchronisation / desync fix for Multiplayer Campaign.


The Creative Assembly

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

peer posted:

In my opinion the first Medieval was the best game in the series until Shogun 2 came along. I think Rome was massively more successful though just because it's easier to get non-history-nerds interested when it's not sprite-based.

I have to agree with this. Medieval might have been a simpler game, but I feel that a lot of the complexity added to Rome took it a step backwards (squalor, senate missions) and took some of the magic out of the battles by making the campaign more heavy, but in a clunky way.

It needed to be done, of course, without it we wouldn't have the culmination of all that improvement in Shogun 2 making it the first game that really has the same sort of baked in fun that Medieval had.

Chivalric Men at Arms for life. Honourary mention to Gothic Knights too!

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

I think a large part of the lack of modding capability or tools is that the last few games (Empire, Napoleon, Shogun 2) use the Warscape engine and suffer from Empire's legacy, that is, it was obviously rushed out early and it's honestly hard to tell which bits are locked down on purpose and which is just hasty code designed to plug a gap in a sliding schedule. I'm sure with Sega and their opinions on gaming at the time of Empire there is some degree of locking down taking place, but that's true of a lot of games in that era.

Most game companies have moved past that with the demonstration of both backlash against the lack of modability as well as real live examples of games which support modding but still sell DLC well. Even if they wanted to, there would never be any funding for rewriting Warscape to be more moddable, since they would basically need to rewrite the entire engine from scratch.

Rome 2 is going to be in an entirely new engine, so we will see if this bears out, but I'm confident the dismal moddability is due more in part to old business choices and the limitations of their engine than any outright animosity towards modders.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

peer posted:

I'm starting to get the same feeling I had a few months before RTW's release, which was basically "oh god this will be the best ever". Which turned out to be sort-of true. Hope RTW2 can repeat this

I had that feeling pre-Empire so uh....

Deep breaths.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Lemon Curdistan posted:

Yes, it's the people making free things for you to use that have entitlement issues, and not you.

I don't think he was saying that Darth should be required to make mods for him, so I'm not sure where you get the idea that he is entitled from. He's saying that the people who modify the games often tend to assume that the company should cater for their vision of the game and make their job as easy as possible, which is an entitled point of view, since the company in no way exists or give the implication of existing to make the modders life easier.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Arrgytehpirate posted:

I just got all the total wars in the pack. Which do I play first?

Shogun 2 is the most polished, best balanced and easiest to get into out of the lot. I would recommend starting there if only for the fact that it also has the easiest learning curve out of all the games.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

NihilVerumNisiMors posted:

That's almost every modder ever, especiallyone on TW Center.

Content: I really do wish they would give you the option of choosing the original S2 or RotS menu background instead of the Fall one. I know the Fall one is prettier and more dynamic and such but it just takes so much longer to load it. Also, I miss the castle with the snowman!

Seriously though, just let me set how detailed I want my menu to be.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Scalding Coffee posted:

Is it normal for units in Shogun 2 with several waypoints on the Campaign map, to lag so much when moving?

I've never seen it happen, but the most waypoints I tend to ever set is around 3, so I'm not sure.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

Take the easy way out with ~ add_money 4000!

You probably aren't bad at money management, the EB devs just didn't really give a poo poo about starting budgets. For a lark, try playing Pontus or Hayasdan and weep. They start out about 8k in the shitter, and all the nearby cities are fortified with a billion rebels.

EBs a fun mod, with a lot of cool units, but getting to the point where you can release those elite cataphracts is so hard without just taking over the world. That's a problem in all TW games honestly, so I don't really have a problem with cheating in order to prolong the game.

I find the research tree in the newer Total Wars seriously reduce that problem by gating the deeper units, preventing the whole "rush to elites" strategy that works so well in the earlier ones.

Part of this just makes me so much more excited about Rome 2, since the quality of life improvements from the later games like Shogun 2 are just so massive that I can't go back no matter how good the mods are.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

SeanBeansShako posted:

God I still wish LastEmperor finished that ETW LP. That was pretty fun to read.

I wasn't aware that he had not finished more than one LP. That certainly explains his big red title.

Was I the only one that loved TRIARI? I'm a hypocrite though, since I liked the Japanese responses in Shogun 2 far more than the English ones that they put in for Fall.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Gringo Heisenberg posted:

I've got Rome: Total War and really really enjoyed it. Played more campaigns than I can remember. Tried Medieval 2 and wasn't so crazy about it.

Since the entire Total War series is so cheap for the next 30 or so hours, should I buy Shogun 2/Napolean/Empire vanillas, no add ons? Or go for the Master or Grand Master Collection? Not sure how worth it the add ons are.
I assume Shogun 2 is the best of them too?

Shogun 2 is the best in the series so far, yes. It's worth picking up the master pack for it, as the DLC adds quite a lot to both the base campaign and contains an entirely new campaign as well.

The add-ons for the other Total War games are less than ideal, in my experience.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Gringo Heisenberg posted:

Turned all the settings to low on Shogun 2, and oh god the load times . Also, any tips for campaign? I only tried two battles, and got my rear end thoroughly handed to me trying to assault some compound on a hill. Couldn't even get close with their archers.

The load times are pretty much all down to your processor due to the compression Shogun 2 uses, so faster HDD doesn't help much, but disabling things like antivirus can help a little.

There is hope though, there is a patch due out on the 1st of December that apparently reduces load times by around 25% and reduces the game file size by 30%. We could have used that patch about a year ago but hey, don't look a gift horse in the mouth I guess.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Sober posted:

I didn't really put too much time into Shogun 2. The tutorial is nice but the dumb thing is I wasn't anticipating a Shogun style siege after all the time with a typical ONE WALL ONE SQUARE siege from Rome and Medieval 2.

Doesn't help that even if you fail the siege mission tutorial you 'win' it and advance the tutorial. That and I wasn't entirely sure if the capturable points on that map were worth getting and also my ninjas all died and I think I wasted all my cannon rounds.

That siege tutorial is terrible and basically worthless since you have a force totally unsuited for taking a fortification. The actual siege battles play out a lot better (although that isn't difficult).

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

SeanBeansShako posted:

Please god let me pick a classic background now.

Seconded. Also, please don't screw my replays for my LP (or my LP for that matter)!

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

OpenlyEvilJello posted:

They come from Shalcar. All he had to do, really, was divide the cost by the after tax per turn income of each structure. IIRC he largely ignored the effect of increases to the wealth generation rate (because it takes a while for those to matter).

Actually, the growth rate bonus of all the buildings is factored in, since it's pretty basic calculus to do so. Where total wealth generated by the building is the integral of (a + b.x)*c where a is the building wealth bonus, b is the building growth, c is the tax rate and x is the number of turns since it was built.

That integral works out to a.c.x + ((b.x^2)/2). You know the cost of the building and a, b and c, so solve for x.

The most valid complaint came from Yukitsu where I took the growth bonus on farms to be for 2 provinces as provided by the extra food, but that's for simplicities sake. You can just drop in the new value for b to work out the new calcs (since the growth added globally is dependant on the number of provinces you own).

So it's a little more complicated than straight division. I've also factored in the effect of trade goods (sold/unsold) in addition to growth and wealth factors on all buildings that have them. It's fairly comprehensive. As for the other games having them, I guess you will need to wait until I LP them!

e: The growth rate can matter far faster than you would think!

Baron Porkface posted:

Do the church changes and leased land apply to all clans?

No, only the Otomo clan gets the changed churches and leased land. Everyone else keeps their existing tech tree and buildings.

shalcar fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Dec 1, 2012

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Xenixx posted:

StarCraft players do it all the time. I imagine that TW players rarely get over 50 apm whereas the amateur SC players are getting over 200. 40, I'm relatively sure, will just lengthen the skill gap between players. Which is always a good thing for competitive gaming.

Hahahaha, wow. The two are absolutely nothing alike in terms on control style of actions needed, let alone related to APM being "skill". You can issue a dozen orders to 20 units and fight competently over a 5 minute battle, yet with intelligent formations and groupings you would be lucky to break 25-30 APM. This is ignoring the fact that any amateur Starcraft player who has 200 APM needs to stop right clicking 25 times for a single move order to inflate his e-penis.

APM is a meaningless measure for basically everything, let alone skill.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

NihilVerumNisiMors posted:

Sounds like CA is in love with the idea of hiding their questionable AI behind semi-scripted "Everyone hates you now!" events. First they gave us Realm Divide, now the Republic thing.

Don't get me wrong, I see the need for stuff like that in order to make the mid- to end-game a challenge but still... I really really hope Rome 2 will have a more reasonable AI.

The Republic is a self choice hard mode, you go into it fully knowing what it's going to be. If you don't like everyone hates you forever, don't go republic.

Considering the previous options were drudge your way through tiny empires that posed no threat or fighting a unified threat, Realm Divide really is the better option (although the was Fall and Rise do it is more palatable than vanilla). People complained because it was a bit gamey, but also because it turned out to be hard when they were used to the total cakewalk of being a major power in earlier Total War games. It's an iterative step forward and I would be sorry to see it go. That's not to say it's perfect, but they are moving in the right direction.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Sober posted:

Welp, guess using an old install and then updating Shogun 2 doesn't want to start? Guess I'll have to download it all over again, which kinda sucks.

Verify the integrity of the game cache, it's been totally overhauled from the older install to be significantly smaller, so it's probably going to be a bit buggy the first time you update it.

If not, at least the new install is around half the size.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

brozozo posted:

Seriously? Jeez, that seems like a huge oversight. Did previous Total War games take fortifications into account when autoresolving?

It's not entirely true. It does take fortifications into account, but nowhere near as much as is really the case. All the auto-resolves have had a similar issue, so I assume CA have a perfectly valid reason for doing so.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Bolow posted:

There anyway to fix the AI just sitting outside of my castle with infantry until time expires in Shogun 2? I'm using the Radious mod and it's getting very tiresome waiting 20 or so minutes for the timer to run down because they won't commit the last of their troops or run away.

Run a cavalry or infantry unit out to them and when it gets close enough they will "wake up" and continue their attack.

It's odd though, I've literally only seen it happen once in all my time playing Shogun 2 vanilla. Maybe it's something to do with Radious?

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Iceshade posted:

I played Shogun 2 for a few days before I realised it was really dumb and dumbed down.

I'm honestly very curious why you feel that way, because if anything Shogun 2 is the best designed Total War in the entire series, both in terms of integration and in underlying mechanics. Especially since you seem to be comparing it to Empire, the objectively worst designed and executed game in the entire series (It's probably a better game than the original Shogun 1 on pure technical merits, but given the relative maturity of the genres at their release and the state of games at the time, it is).

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Iceshade posted:

I just found S2 to be kinda lacking in diversity (well, I guess they were all Japanese all following the same rules and things), and the faction-specific units were just "[faction-name] Archers. +1 range +1 damage". Yes, that's.. very unique. Hooray.

Japan was (and still is, really) a relatively small nation with a monolithic culture and national attitudes. It's unsurprising that each faction would have access to almost completely the same units, with small bonuses for regional specialities. Would it have really changed the game all that much if each clan had different units but they were slightly modified (+1 range, +1 attack, -2 defence for clan A on swordsmen, +5 charge, +1 speed, -1 morale for clan B for swordsman) in a way that simple modifiers to [faction name] Unit wouldn't? Obviously not, since the only way to have enough unit varation like you want is to have nearly a million carbon copy units with minor stat changes (Hello empire!).

Iceshade posted:

In terms of dumbed down-ness, I mean stuff like archers not firing any further if they have the higher ground. The ridiculous movement speeds. I swear if infantry had wings they would lift off. The incredible accuracy and lethality of the archers was insane as well. A group of god knows how many archers firing at a single man inside the fort, over walls, and every arrow landing within a square meter or so. I guess I just found it really arcadey.

Archers might not fire further on higher ground (A limitation from the Warscape engine designed to deal with guns, hello empire!), but the impact velocity is correctly modelled from height differences, increasing the lethality for archers with higher ground over their lower standing cousins. You argue that archer lethality was stupidly high, yet you *also* complain about archer lethality not being high enough in certain situations. It's not intended that you empty entire forts with your archers and never risk your melee troops (for all the threat a single man would be), so you only have your own OCD to blame for the fact that you don't take the faster yet equally effective option of storming the walls after skirmishing and pressing your ranged advantage, especially with the reinforcement system making the minor casualties moot.

If you find units run too fast, turn the game down to half speed. The battles are faster and more fluid to make your attention to certain sections more critical and to punish huge stacks of cheap troops for human players by forcing them to allocate their own limited attention to critical areas, which means the computer can occasionally catch you on the hop. It also drastically reduces the time it takes for armies to meet in the field, which does nothing but save a few minutes every fight, which works out to hours of time actually doing fun things (playing the game, not watching two armies march at each other).

Iceshade posted:

I don't know how much mods have changed this and how the expansion/patches have affected this, but the state of the vanilla game has to account for something.

Vanilla was perfectly fine bar a few bugs, almost all of which have been addressed in patches. Total War was never a grognardy combat sim, for all that everything was buried in a million stats that interrelated in nearly impossible to understand ways. The fact that they streamlined Total War in Shogun 2 so much has meant that the game is significantly more accessible, more fun and more respected. Thinking the men run too fast or that your archers don't gain a tiny amount of extra range on higher ground is somehow enough of a dealbreaker for you to write the game off so completely I find rather baffling.


Iceshade posted:

Best designed? It had its merits, but just felt too arcadey. Yes, it played quite smoothly and noticed very few bugs. The multiplayer campaign worked fine (miraculously), though it still suffered from desync bugs. Empire had style, a large campaign map and diverse factions. It was a terrible game when you consider the state it was in, and they needed to patch the AI's behaviour to actually do naval invasions (), but it was fun. It was a good setting. NTW was a much better executed game, but it lacked the diversity of ETW.

So really your main complaint is that you liked the Age of Sail over Sengoku Jidai. That's fine, but it's really no reason to act like Shogun 2 is a terrible game.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Antares posted:

I dunno I'm new to the series and bought Shogun 2 and a couple other TW games over the course of the Steam sale and the tactical battles are great but I don't particularly understand or enjoy the strategic map yet. I could be carrying a lot of bad habits from Civ to facilitate that, but I've started 3 vanilla campaigns and within 10-20 turns I'm at war with 4 guys I didn't do poo poo to. I can't tell if emphasizing military to keep up with the stack spam is working better than focusing on growth so I can build more stacks or what.

I started a game with the Radious mod and it seems 'better' in the sense that he's reduced upkeep so I'm able to actually do things but so far that mainly means I'm just getting into massive stack battles sooner.

In a lot of ways your Civ habits will be helpful, but it's important to note that the AI behaves a lot more like Civ on the higher difficulty levels, not the lower ones.

Just like Civ, some clans will form power blocs that hate you. Trade is the best way to start alliances to form your own group of friends, but no-one wants to be a friend of the weakling. If you don't have sufficient troops (or have them in the wrong part of your empire) the computer will quite happily take advantage of your weakness and go to war with you. It won't peace out unless you threaten it's holdings in some way. This means you often have a better bargaining position for peace *before* you take a province, rather than after.

Don't expect the AI to happily let you tech up or improve your provinces unless you have the muscle to hold what you have. Sometimes you just have to hold a front or two while you consolidate.

It's not a difficult game, but it can be a little overwhelming. The computer respects numbers more than quality, so make sure to crank out hordes of Ashigaru as they fight well above their value in castle defence as well as giving the computer pause. It's a balancing act that takes some time to get used to, but even fighting 4 guys at once is rarely a problem. Just counterattack and wipe one or two of them out. Hell, you can often make them surrender and become your vassal if they are one province minors that just threw their armies to be obliterated on your walls.

Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Sober posted:

Is vassalage in S2 even worth it? It seemed like such an amazing hassle trying to do it in Rome or Medieval 2 that I would just run down their last city and loot it or something instead. I mean, this isn't a Paradox grand strategy, so accumulating more territory never feels like it gets more overwhelming at all.

It most certainly is. Newly minted vassals don't suffer from Realm Divide penalties and start off well liked or neutral to all other clans, so they rarely get war declared on them. In addition they are a trade partner and give you a percentage of their income, so it can be quite lucrative and a good use of poor provinces (How else are you going to get a province with 1100 wealth make an effective 900 koku a turn?). This is in addition to the fact you don't need to recruit or maintain the army to defend it, as you only need a smaller stack to ensure loyalty. Since you are trading with them for some time (especially if they are newly minted) they tend to be rather friendly towards you and will often last into Realm Divide, not to mention they end up at war with the world too, so often don't want to add to their woes by declaring on you.


Oct 21, 2009

At my signal, DEAL WITH IT.

Taco Defender

Brownie posted:

Oh sorry if I came off as saying it was boring or anything, I didn't mean to as you're absolutely correct in that I haven't played it yet so I've no idea how good it is! I wasn't asking because I assumed it was boring, it's just that the last Total War game I played was Empire and that game was definitely immediately better with AI mods and the like, I was just wondering if there was anything similar for this but you've answered my question already

Suddenly everything you said makes perfect sense. Empire was by far the worst of the bunch in terms of AI, you couldn't even remotely compare it with the Shogun 2 AI. Vanilla Shogun 2 is a perfectly enjoyable and fulfilling experience all by itself, something that could never be said for Empire!

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