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A BIG loving BLUNT posted:oh wow hahaha
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Sep 26, 2012 21:10
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| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 05:49 |
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Hey Fall of the Samurai players who play MP! Do all three of you want to learn how to win literally every large-sized matchmade battle? Read on! At the ripe rank of 8.5 gold stars (almost 9) I have literally lost only three land battles since picking up the game again, at least in FOTS, from 10 silver stars. One was me trying to get used to the controls again after a few months of not playing, the other was me encountering an intelligent player who took a roughly mirror copy of my own army, and the last was me being an idiot with my general yet still running it down to his last two really depleted line infantry. Those who recall my playstyle know I favor the Bushido tree (and I do have a video of it on YouTube) but I have tweaked it to be more line infantry effective. Read on to see the easy mode setup I've used to great effect! At 8.5 gold stars my general costs 1510 koku and has the following skills: - Enable Gun (self defense) - Charge (Bushido opener) - Speed (Necessary for skills) - 1 Melee Attack (for Second Wind) - 2 Melee Defense (for Second Wind and Armor) - Second Wind - 2 Armor (for Last Man Standing at level 9) - 2 Double Time Cavalry and 2 Double Time Infantry (for faster cavalry and swords, but also...) - Cavalry Capture and Co-operative Capture (the secret weapon of Bushido) - Bushido Morale and Bushido Charge (not as good as Improved Army Morale but both make cavalry and swords even better) The army so far is as follows... - 3 Black Bear Infantry - 2 White Bear Infantry - 3 Shogitai - 4 Yari Ki (veterans with 2 attack upgrades each) - 1 Shogunate Guard Cavalry - 1 Kisho Ninja (used to gain veteran XP, will have to go at 10) The total cost comes to 13960, leaving 40 koku left over. Retainers are... - Blade Master (+2 attack to my three Shogitai and ninjas makes them beasts) - Practice Grounds (+2 attack to all melee cavalry: this means five horses with 18 attack each) - Yamabushi Guide (less fatigue and faster move speed is good!) - Flogging Officer (essential -1 morale to lines to crumble them faster) The only enemy retainer that bothers me is Flogging Officer on my own lines. I laugh when I see Shinobi Informer (waste of a retainer IMO since you'll see the enemy army in a moment anyway). Livestock Pestilence isn't so bad when my cavalry is literally as strong as a Katana Kachi, and Bushido Charge nullifies the -5 charge penalty from Bandit Horse Thieves. So how do I set up? Well, I form my main attack force three lines deep: line infantry (the bears) in front as wide as possible, with Shogitai in the second line also stretched as wide as possible, and my general bringing up the rear. That's group 1. Group 2 is my force of five cavalry set up without the locked control group in order to keep them fluid. The ninjas are set up in some woods halfway on the map for a quick stealth charge and get their XP early. They are literally tossed away because the main body of my army is enough. I position my uber cavalry as close to the dojos I want and set them galloping there immediately at the battle's start. My foot soldiers follow in formation, usually just going straight. The beauty here is that my cavalry is not only able to fast-cap a coveted building, they are also numerous and powerful enough to curb stomp any cavalry that tries to interfere. Most people don't bother engaging, leaving me to cap freely, sometimes even a dojo perfectly halfway on the map. They tend to cap before the enemy lines get a bead on them, and then they fall back to prepare an assault or go cap another dojo. At this point, the armies are near combat. If the enemy has no 150 range lines, I sit back and let my cavalry set the rules of engagement, often picking a fight with enemy cavalry if any exist. If my foe DOES have 150 ranged units, I say gently caress it and send my lines in to take as many shots as they can, absorbing the dreadful volleys. My Shogitai are ordered to attack lines immediately ahead of them, and a quick general rally puts them at about 14 morale apiece, making them brave under fire indeed. I redirect fire either to non-Shogitai'd lines, or if the combat looks to be in my favor, blast the melee'd enemies anyway. My cavalry should have completely destroyed the enemy's own by now, unless the enemy had no cavalry, in which case charge the gently caress on in and disable the lines so my own can shoot! The combat is solved swiftly at this point unless the enemy micros his lines and runs them away from my Shogitai (doomed to fail as I have lots of firepower still). At the end of it all my lines are relatively unscathed, my Shogis have lost about half their men or more, and my cavalry varies from "doing fine" to "all gone". Most kills go to the swords and cavalry with maybe 1/3 of the kills being lines. So what makes this build work? Well, the dramatic cavalry superiority, combined with a high-morale, high-attack melee infantry makes this a hybrid rush-shoot build that really emphasizes mobility. The cavalry's power lies in battlefield and dojo control early, and the buffed swords running to close the gap act as a great meat shield for my average but numerous riflemen. If swords clash, my 21 attack Shogitai win. The cavalry I possess, covered by the Shogunate Guard Cavalry's aura bonus, keeps the Yari Ki going and really causes morale penalties to enemies that get charged, pinned in close combat, and ultimately shot by my rifles. The weaknesses of this build lie on terrain and enemies with a lot of elite infantry and powerful cavalry to severely weaken my own: Shogitai can be kited by a two-point Quick March unit (Command tree), and that can be a problem if the enemy gets a chance to spare an extra line to shoot at them from the side. Keep your army tight to avoid losing a precious unit on a wild chase. Gun cavalry can also be a problem for the melee cavalry, so care to keep them safe is needed if the enemy has Imperial Guard or Carbine Cavalry. Paradoxically I don't mind the deadlier Revolver Cavalry as much because my line infantry can act as a powerful dissuader if a retreat is in order. Replay videos will be put up later to show how I've been working on this army lately. When I was level 7 I was XP-leveling Sabre Cavalry, and they made a decent if flawed addition to the cavalry rush strategy. Olive Branch fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 07:20
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Olive Branch posted:Army and general https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ban8ry8RwDM
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Oct 5, 2012 18:01
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Joink posted:Do you like FOTS over the vanilla game? I enjoyed it for a few months but the gunz vs gunz thing got tiresome and I remember the game had a lot of issues with gun units making high level play a matter of who can abuse the most bugs while avoiding others such as the issues with LoS. After the latest DLC came out with the hero units I played the base game for a while again and really enjoyed it more than FOTS. Fights where less about LoS and positioning in forests, and more about maximizing the units you brought and looking for weaknesses in the opponents army. I've started a second avatar in vanilla Shogun and have had my share of defeats facing higher level players with veterans and units I did not have yet, and while I accept those losses I do find I need to basically relearn to play the game and find ways to get around popular tactics like Hold Firm Yari Ashigaru and Attendant bullet shields. I am also a bit sore about the constrictive veteran slot system when some "old guard" players got like 300+ to play around with. Not much room to experiment there! Ironically I seem to play FOTS like a vanilla general would, with an emphasis on melee combat and supporting firing line. Archers in vanilla sometimes feel underpowered given their price when I could brig some more sword or spear units. All in all I do like both, but I need to relearn how to play... And give us back the no cap on ninjas, CA! At least make the cap 6 and make Monomi Spy a retainer the enemy can't see! Edit: Yeah those Black Bears were pretty much forgotten, and the Ninjas were just an annoyance at best. I am totally good at managing ~2000 koku's worth of units I swear!  Edit 2: I also want to add that winning battles in vanilla feels a hell of a lot more satisfying than in FOTS, probably because so many battles are down to the wire and very close. Can't wait until I have a veteran army in place! Most may just have 2 attack and that's it, because I love big armies! Olive Branch fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Oct 6, 2012 |
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Oct 6, 2012 05:19
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Went ahead and bought Rome Total War Gold and Alexander on Steam for the sole purpose of Europa Barbarorum-ing it up, in the hopes of tiding me over until Rome 2. Interface issues and old battle engine (and controls) aside, this is as fun as I remember it, but the map is dauntingly big. Ah well, more room for my Roman legions to expand!
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Oct 23, 2012 08:34
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EB's government system is pretty straightforward, I find. The "best" government, homeland, is only buildable on lands that were historically held by that faction as part of its central provinces, vut takes 10 turns to build. Government 2 is for the historically held territories of the faction, and governments 3 and 4 are for not-historically-held stuff, the difference being 3 is more "administrative" and 4 is a puppet state. They are built as fast as 1 turn. The higher tiers of government give more advanced administrative buildings and faction units, while lower tiers offer a separate barracks that allow regional units but few administrative buildings. For instance, Rome can recruit Roman legions only in homeland Italy, but if they conquered North Africa they could build a levy barracks with a tier 4 government and recruit elephants. When conquering a new region you need to first dismantle the existing government, barracks, etc., put in place the provisional government (1 turn of building time), then choose tier 1-4 governments.  as gently caress up there.
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Oct 23, 2012 16:00
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I'm going to go off-topic a bit and talk about Shogun 2's multiplayer again. Earlier Joink asked if I preferred vanilla's MP, or FOTS's, and I said overall I liked vanilla's more. After some time playing both games again, I've come to reverse my opinion. This was originally going to be a big post with lots of words, but I decided being concise is better. If people want more examples or details just ask for it! Anyway, here's why I feel FOTS's MP is better. Balance: Gonna open it with a big one, which sort of encompasses a lot of subcategories I'll touch on as we go. I feel that, for a casual player, FOTS's gameplay is much more balanced than vanilla's. There is less of an emphasis on veterans in FOTS, whereas in S2 you needed to create at best a level 6 core of melee attack units with Yari Ashigaru using Spear Wall and Hold Firm, or attendants that come as DLC, to catch enemy charges and perform a massed infantry rush on the enemy. The demand of needing veteran units is such that not only are new players immediately at a disadvantage due to how the melee attack and other stats work, but they also lack the investment in time and clan tokens to be competitive even if they have numerical and tactical advantage. In FOTS this problem is lessened as many units are similar in price and good starter units are available quickly, without the need to make an army full of veterans. Retainers and random drops are also, for the most part, more balanced in FOTS than in S2 simply because they have less of an impact on battle than in S2. In S2 you'll be glad to have Blade Master, World Weary, Untrained Fugu Cook, and Trading Post to nerf your enemy's melee stats while buffing your own and making your army cost effective. In FOTS the only random drop retainer that can cause trouble is Flogging Officer, but even he is only affecting line infantry rather than all veterans or more than one stat. General skills are much more balanced in FOTS as well, and encourages experimentation. In S2 you pretty much only find Stand and Fight generals with good defensive stats to avoid getting sniped. As a plus, FOTS's skills are also more powerful and retainer-like than S2's the difference being any player could get them. Lastly, the units. S2 has DLC units up the bum, and attendants are a necessary evil for their price, as I said. FOTS doesn't have DLC units (yet) and the available units are more than capable of doing their job. I wanted to touch more on the rock-paper-scissors of the gameplay, though. Namely that cavalry in S2 is weaker than in FOTS to the point of being almost unnecessary save a few chasers/chargers. Naginatas, including attendants, have a bonus vs. cavalry that makes charges for damage worthless, and bow units are expensive for their low effectiveness. Cavalry in FOTS is a touch too strong, I find, and skirmished troops are too expensive for what they do, but at least the divide between swords, naginatas, spears, bows, and cavalry isn't as pronounced. Fun: I admit this is subjective as hell but I need to clarify something. I like S2's MP and have sweeter victories against high level players than when I play on FOTS... but these victories come as a result of my enemy lacking the units, veterans or retainers that routinely dominate the really high level play. In FOTS my enemy could be as versatile as he/she pleases, and victories and losses on my part come from their use of units and terrain, not veterans who outcharge, outkill, and outlive mine. I like to win and don't like to lose, I admit that. However, losses in FOTS always boil down to my poor tactics, not the veterans or retainers my foe has brought (on top of my poor tactics  that is). If I outflank a foe and outnumber him, my units should be able to cause at least some wavering rather than meet the brick wall of warcrying monks with 20+ defense who cause massive casualties and didn't even need to maneuver all that much.Yes, FOTS has many problems and annoying crap (LOS buggery, naval explosions, ironclad ridiculousness), but I find it overall more preferable and fun than S2, even if pulling a win in S2 makes me feel more accomplished. Olive Branch fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Oct 29, 2012 |
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Oct 29, 2012 22:35
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With all the deals going on I bought every Total War game I was missing minus Empire, since everyone here kind of shits on Empire and Napoleon is way better anyway.
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Nov 25, 2012 23:12
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OK the koku pricing changes are cool and all, but Azure Dragon Infantry costs 760 koku, while Red Bear Infantry costs 750. Red Bears have two more attack and defense than Azure Dragons. GG CA. Edit: They also increased the price of Shogitai from 950 to 1000 and didn't list it. Imperial Guard Infantry still costs 1280 but Shogunate Guard Infantry costs 1220. CA, what the hell.
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Nov 30, 2012 23:36
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Shogunate posted:Obviously Imperial units and their modern firearms where too dishonourable, and have been nerfed for the glory of the Shogun and his hanzo steel I think every general would benefit from Bushido if only for the cavalry capture and co-operative capture perks. Melee cavalry is so drat good in FOTS and the fact Sabre Cavalry are faster now makes me excited.
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Dec 1, 2012 00:02
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Unlucky7 posted:Question about diplomacy in Shogun 2: Is there a penalty against all your other relations if you suddenly engage in war with a clan you were friendly with? For example, Shimazu starts off with Higo as a trade partner (Which seems to build the relation to friendly, apparently), but Higo is one of the required victory Providences.
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Dec 1, 2012 08:13
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Joink posted:Are the new otomo clan units available in avatar mode?
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Dec 1, 2012 09:16
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Having an automated tercio-like combined unit would be nice, so that individual soldiers in that regiment would each be equipped with weapons for self-defense and would rearrange appropriately to engage a particular enemy. Having to micromanage your own tercios of spears, swords, and ranged infantry is annoying, but given how the skirmish button is still useless I'm not putting much faith in that dream.
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Dec 19, 2012 03:49
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Mans posted:Just assassinate them. Encircle the heretic with soldier stacks and then when he has nowhere to go send a soldier in and they'll die. I do it all the time because gently caress heretics and douchey merchants.
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Jan 14, 2013 22:56
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Question about an achievement in Shogun 2: Fall of the Samurai. The "One Hundred Sacks of Rice" achievement asks for a Nagaoka player to research an "eighth tier technology" (nevermind the game only has four tiers of modernization, but it must've been a misprint). I researched Western Agenda, a final tier tech, but didn't pop the achievement. Do I need to beat the campaign to unlock it?
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Jun 14, 2013 06:44
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shalcar posted:That's a seventh tier technology (Each level of modernisation has two tiers of technology, each row is a tier).
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Jun 14, 2013 06:59
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Goddamn, the only thing more atrocious than the TWC userbase's membership is their spelling. Edit: Serbian nationalists? Tell me more.  Edit 2: Perfect gamers.txt material: That Prometheus guy posted:I do not see anything racist in it , In LAtin the word for black is Niger , the Medieval total war 2 had the "Negro spearmen" unit ... Olive Branch fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Jun 15, 2013 |
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Jun 15, 2013 00:09
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SeanBeansShako posted:Having trouble inviting you, added you as a friend. 
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Jun 21, 2013 04:31
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| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 05:49 |
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SHISHKABOB posted:The horses don't die, they're just taking a nap until the end of the battle. It's super effective! Horse has fainted!
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Jun 25, 2013 18:31
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