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Llamadeus posted:Creative Assembly put out yet another Shogun 2 unit DLC. Nine hero units, each one analagous to a standard infantry/cavalry unit. quote:Gozen’s Hime Heroines I can have Tomoe Gozen in my army?!   Might have to get this.
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Jul 27, 2012 06:33
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kiresays posted:Fall of the Samurai worth picking up? On sale from steam. Any mods that are worth picking up or even necessary? It's fun. The Radious Naval Mod is good. Probably necessary to keep sea battles from being super-frustrating.
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Dec 21, 2012 02:07
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SeanBeansShako posted:Lets review the Fall Of The Samurai DLC Clans! Since you seem to be an expert, please educate me on the proper use of a Portuguese Terco. From the description, I figured they were a combination of matchlocks and spears, capable of firing volleys until the enemy closed to melee, then giving a good account of themselves. So I stuck them in the center of my formation...and they got pasted. With a melee defense of two, I guess they just can't handle a prolonged fight. So I decided to entrust them with the right flank along with my unit of Long Yari Ashigaru, figuring they could ward off cavalry and keep the flank strong. But a unit of Yari Cavalry destroyed them. I guess they don't get a bonus against cavalry, despite the spears. Right now, they sit in my gunline next to my Heavy Gunners. Seems like kind of a waste.
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Dec 27, 2012 23:30
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SeanBeansShako posted:Rallying a bit more would be nice, especially if they are slightly experinced. They seem to rally more if you place a rally point with your general, at least in my experience. As long as there isn't an enemy on their heels, they seem to pull themselves together and head for the rally point fairly often.
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Dec 28, 2012 23:25
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Wasn't there a mod or patch for Shogun 2 that dramatically reduced the odds of a clan randomly declaring war on you from halfway across the map? I automatically DOW and kill any fleet that has soldiers on it now, because they are always meant for me. They're not difficult to deal with from a tactical perspective even if they manage to land and take a few undefended provinces. But they are a massive waste of time, not to mention a huge pain in the rear end.
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Jan 11, 2013 02:20
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A lot of people in this thread have complained that Darthmod and Radious mod, although shiny and full of cool poo poo, changes the tactical battles into unbearable slogs. I agreed, and tried seeing if I could revert the combat changes while leaving the campaign changes intact. It turns out that you can, at least with darthmod. Open darthmod_shogun.pack with PackFileManager, open the "db" folder, and delete all of the files related to tactical combat. kv_morale, units_table, battle_entities, and so on. I just tested it and it worked like a charm. And sorry if this is obvious or known already; I'm pretty inept, so figuring out how to delete spreadsheets without making Shogun 2 crash on startup felt like hacking the Gibson.
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Feb 7, 2013 10:01
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NoneSuch posted:I really couldn't enjoy Shogun 2's campaign but I loved the multiplayer, the dumb unit veterancy and item bonuses make it tough to get back into though especially when you're going up against dlc stuff. People go crazy for that crap though so I bet it's going to come back in Rome 2. You should really get the DLC, the unit ones in particular are worth the 2 bucks when they're on sale. The Saints and Heroes units each have an army type that they play well with, and the Sengoku Jidai units are powerful enough that you can slot into pretty much any army. Especially Mounted Gunners, sweet jesus I love those things. They're like Donderbuss Cavalry but with range.
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Feb 8, 2013 01:21
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NihilVerumNisiMors posted:The Tokugawa special unit? Didn't they end up shooting each other in the back unless placed in a straight line? They are the Tokugawa special unit, but I've never seen them shoot each other. Must have been a bug they've fixed, because I use them all the time in multiplayer. Run up to a formation, shoot a volley, gallop away, reload, repeat...
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Feb 8, 2013 01:29
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Koramei posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJJPce-e_zU I was actually disappointed that the general speeches in S2 weren't in English. It was entertaining as gently caress in Rome that all of the generals sounded like they were starring in Gladiator. "UNITS! AWAIT MY ORDERS!" While in S2 the generals just kind of drone on. Some of the units were pretty fun though. "ONNA BUSHI!" "Tono! Sessha no meirei wa?"
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Feb 25, 2013 18:08
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a pipe smoking dog posted:I've never got in a position to fight a battle with Onna Bushi, it's very disapointing. Darthmod spawns Onna Bushi as garrison units for Castles as well as Citadels, so you actually have a chance of using them and getting that achievement. They're pretty great defending walls.
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Feb 25, 2013 18:37
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Speaking of ahistorical, aren't Rome 2 and Shogun 2 built on the same engine? I'd kill for a silly Japan vs. Rome mod.
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Feb 28, 2013 21:44
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Speaking of sieges, what is the value in destroying a castle Tenshu? It doesn't let you capture it any quicker, and I don't think it fires arrows. I miss the days when a trebuchet shot would miss and obliterate the Temple to So-and-So. I hope they bring that back in Rome 2.
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Mar 4, 2013 03:59
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WreckSov posted:I don't know if it accomplishes anything, but flattening and immolating an entire keep with naval fire support and armstrong guns sure lookes pretty. I won my first game with the Otomo the other day. During one of the many castle assaults, a European Cannon fired a round that skipped through the AI's entire force, leaving a bloody streak across the ground from one side of the fort to the other. War is hella awesome
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Mar 4, 2013 04:23
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Mazz posted:On that artillery pack, does it really add anything specific or just up the unit variants and add garrison artillery? Do the 12 pounders really bring anything new, or the Napoleon guns add explosives like it sounds? Is the version with the new smoke mod good or bad? You can actually capture the garrison artillery and bring it along with you to your next siege a la the Guns of Ticonderoga. Makes playing a fully traditional army somewhat more feasible, since you can actually shoot back. I don't think they have any real advantages over Parrott guns though, and certainly not over Armstrong guns. They're mostly added flavor.
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Mar 24, 2013 18:07
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Does anyone know if DarthMod screws with the way the different factions interact amongst themselves in Fall of The Samurai? I've twice tried to play a Traditional game as the Aizu, and both times the campaigns denigrated into total war against every one of my supposedly-Pro-Shogunate neighbors. Including the Nagaoka (who broke their allegiance with me in order to backstab me), the Jozai (same), the Sendai (same), and even, bizarrely, Edo itself. Nor would any of them accept peace, on any terms, until my samurai legions were besieging their capital. This is on Hard difficulty. It's strange because I played a game as the Saga with DarthMod on, also on Hard, and the Imperial faction more-or-less stuck together. Although they were so timid that they never left Kyushuu and I ended up conquering the whole of Japan nearly singlehanded. Maybe the Imperial factions are intentionally more united than the Shogunate? Either way, it's annoying.
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Apr 19, 2013 00:50
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Tomn posted:I came to Fall of the Samurai after a while and holy God I forgot how completely overpowered artillery is. Two of them will pretty much shred an army before they get close, and in a siege, blasting any infantry hiding on the walls not only slaughters half of them, it makes it dead easy for kneel fire to sweep away what's left. Have a large force of artillery trail behind your main conquering force. Any time you find a nut too tough to crack, wait for the artillery to show up, then bomb them to hell. Even wooden cannons are better than nothing against a fort. Alternatively, siege them out. No way can you call that gimmicky, it's precisely what sieges were intended for.
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Apr 19, 2013 00:55
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Grand Prize Winner posted:I think some of the starting provinces in FoTS are ruled by the same clans they were in vanilla, though. Which means you can totally be like "I'm playing my last dude's great-grandson!" It's sort of jarring to realize that many of those clans still exist today. The Shimazu, the Mori, the Oda, and the Date have current family heads, for instance. The current head of the Tokugawa family wrote a book defending the reign of the Tokugawa Shogunate as an age of cultural enlightenment.
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May 10, 2013 03:59
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Brannock posted:Which book is this? The Edo Inheritance by Tokugawa Tsunenari.
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May 10, 2013 05:20
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I have a question about Shogun 2...if I sign a peace treaty with a foe I am at war with, will that treaty be enforced for my vassals as well? I'm playing a legendary game, so I can't just do it and reload if it doesn't. I went to war to protect this vassal, so if my enemy takes the opportunity for peace to swoop in and conquer him, it'll all be wasted.
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May 13, 2013 23:37
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SheepNameKiller posted:Nope, your vassals are vassals but they still manage their own diplomacy and can go to war without asking you permission. Gadzuko posted:I can't say with 100% certainty but I don't think it does. There have definitely been times I've gone to war with someone then made peace with their allies separately, unless I'm completely misremembering. You would probably be leaving them out in the cold. Thanks. This sucks. I was allied with the Saga, conquered a domain belonging to a traitorous clan, and returned it to its pro-Emperor clan as a vassal. Saga immediately declared war on my new vassal, which I took to be a prelude to war against me. Now I'm stuck either destroying the last major Pro-Emperor clan (besides my own), or losing my new vassal and possibly having to kill the Saga anyway.
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May 13, 2013 23:58
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WoodrowSkillson posted:So I started a new Shimazu campaign after following all this threads advice, and I am doing even worse now then the last time. Christianity yet again has caused massive problems in all my conquered provinces. I kept my taxes at low and did not upgrade any castles. I own all of the island except the bridge province which another clan took before I could finish off the otomo. I now have next to no money, all of my conquered provinces are unhappy and require garrisons or no tax collected, and now I have a bad harvest hat might start a famine that I will not be able to get out of. Shimazu benefit the most from Christianity. They get awesome Nanban ships to help them rule the waves, Nanban cannons to topple each and every castle between Satsuma and Kyoto, Missionaries to wreak hell on all the soft Buddhist factions on the mainland, and best of all, the +research and +economy from the church chain. You can also get Imported Matchlock Ashigaru for dirt cheap, although they're not as good as they sound. I generally convert the minute I can swing it as the Shimazu. Taxes aren't the way you make money as the Shimazu. Your main goal should be taking and holding every trading post around Kyushuu (the island you start). If you can do that, and arrange a few trade deals, you should be utterly swimming in cash. Go down the right-hand side of the Chi research line (to get better farms and more tax revenue) until you get Chonindo, then upgrade every province till they've all got max farms. Any province that has "Very Fertile" soil is a moneymaker, and there are quite a few on Kyuushu; max their farms, give them the highest Market building you can afford, and plop a Metsuke inside the castle town for Maximum Dollar. Military-wise, you should go down the right side of the Bushido tree for superior cavalry, superior swordsmen, and superior archers. Coincidentally, Kyushuu has provinces that give bonuses to all three. Even if you're going Christian, it's also probably worthwhile to grab the "Way of the Sea" techs to improve your navy. Controlling the sea not only protects your sweet  trade posts, it also makes you invulnerable to attack. Armies can't cross at the bridge province if a navy is sitting near the "bridge", so if you keep a navy there and are careful not to let invasion fleets slip through, you're untouchable until you decide to attack.Meanwhile, the biggest difference between the Chosokabe and the Shimazu is where they start. Regardless of which one you pick, you'll probably end up invading the other one anyway once you seize your initial island. Kyushuu is too wealthy not to take as the Chosokabe, and if you're the Shimazu, you'll want to take Shikoku as a stepping-stone to invading the mainland.
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May 15, 2013 06:42
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shalcar posted:You can absolutely stomp face as Shimazu while staying Buddhist and a temple with a monk is enough to keep the Nanban port province safely Buddhist to prevent uprisings. Bulk deadly Katana Samurai can carve through a lot of Japan on their own merits. Eh, I disagree. Unless you're a faction that starts near a Holy Site, or are planning to go monk-heavy for some reason, Buddhism is pretty inferior on its own merits. The biggest advantage is that you'll get along better with the other factions, and you don't have to deal with the -2 Honor loss. Sure, you can play any faction as any religion (except Ikko Ikki, Uesugi and Otomo obviously), but some factions are inherently more suited for one or the other.
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May 15, 2013 07:29
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Koramei posted:I'm gonna contest this actually, imported matchlock ashigaru are phenomenal in the early game- they make a fortress almost unassailable, and rout ashigaru incredibly quickly. I'll give you that they greatly aid fortress defense, but...fortresses are already nigh-impossible for the AI to take. Even on Legendary, I didn't have much trouble holding off an army of 7500 samurai (with siege weapons!) with my 2000 ashigaru/samurai force. The hardest part was trying not to get motion sickness from the stuttering framerate. In field battles they're significantly weaker. I actually despise Fire By Rank; it seems like they take so long to form up and fire that they will often not even get a single volley off before a charging samurai unit is on them. Bow samurai utterly shred them as well. I ended up downloading a mod to give matchlocks the Kneel Fire ability, which seemed like a fair enough buff. The real advantage of matchlocks is that they're dirt cheap and reasonably powerful for their price. Their strength is more strategic than tactical. And the game rates them as being more powerful than they really are, so you can spam them and get lots of cheap auto-resolves if you want to win that way.
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May 16, 2013 00:55
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Azran posted:Honestly, I enjoy the mix of firearms and melee weapons in vanilla and traditional Shogunate armies in FOTS. I just miss crossbows and shields goddamnit. I really love the Shinsengumi Police Force unit. Rifle-armed unit that can launch Banzai charges? Awesome. Its just a shame that by the time you can build them en masse, they're usually outclassed. Personally, I think Imperial/Shogunate/Republican Guard infantry should get Banzai too. And Hold Firm. You have to research a special tech, build a unique building, and you can only have three. Shouldn't they be more awesome?
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May 20, 2013 03:02
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Tomn posted:It's kinda funny how even highly traditional clans need to fight with fully modern steamships. Though, given the lethality of cannon in FotS, a single gunboat could probably knock out a whole fleet of heavy bunes. The Shogunate banned the construction of pretty much any vessel bigger than a fishing ship during its period of seclusion. So the regional daimyo didn't really have much of a navy (except for Satsuma, which had to have ships capable of traveling to Ryukyu), and 200 years of peace meant that traditional shipbuilding skill had pretty much been lost. The Shogunate maintained a standing navy, but with a few exceptions, it was intended only to ward off pirates and scare coastal Daimyo. When Perry came, the Japanese recognized the gulf in strength immediately. It helped that Perry gave them a white flag and told them they would need it if they ever tried to attack his fleet. The Shogunate almost immediately started trying to modernize their navy with the help of Dutch shipyards, and the other clans did not have the money, the ability, or the inclination to start up their own traditional shipbuilding program. The Satsuma had started building and buying modern ships as soon as the Shogunate dropped their restrictions on shipbuilding, so both sides had to contend with the modern vessels of the other. There wasn't really a place for bunes, even if they could be made cheaply (and they were not cheap). I think it's funny how awesome the USS Roanoke is compared to its historical version. The turrets took five minutes to fully traverse, the hull hadn't been reinforced to cope with the added armor or the cannon recoil, and the ship rolled so badly under speed that the guns couldn't even be used; they had to be strapped down just to keep from flying into the sea. The first time they test-fired the guns, one of them became dismounted from the force of the recoil. She was a complete lemon. But in the game, it's all "Pride of the US Navy"  Never was a big U.S. history buff, so I hadn't realized just how bad our navy was before Teddy Roosevelt unfucked everything.
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May 22, 2013 23:48
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LonsomeSon posted:The ironclad monitor USS Roanoke that the units in the game are based on was functionally an armored, semi-mobile gun battery. She was so unseaworthy that it would have been suicide to take her anywhere which remotely resembled open ocean, and there is zero possibility that she could have survived a Pacific crossing (required in order to be sold to a Japanese Daimyo) even if she was being towed. Yeah, its flaws were largely due to the desire to pump it out quickly in order to counter the threat of Confederate ironclads. The real-life Kotetsu was originally designed and built in order to tear the USS Monitor a new rear end in a top hat, and if it had reached the coast in time, it could have done some real damage. Excuses aside, it still was not a great ship, or even an adequate ship. The best thing about it was that people would look at it and scream "Ironclad!"  and be too busy pissing their drawers to attack.
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May 23, 2013 13:30
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Can someone tell me about Boshin-war period artillery? I'm curious as to whether those 4-inch mortars were as deadly in real life as they are in game. That mod which puts them in basically every fort defense is the bane of my existence in my current legendary game. Although I think it's cool that their fuses don't go off if they land in the water. When I sacked Kyoto I managed to keep initial casualties low by putting all my troops in the moat surrounding the castle.
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May 29, 2013 23:26
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Tomn posted:Man, what is it about the Renaissance that makes people violently opposed to it? You don't really see anyone doing the same thing with pretty much all other time periods - even the objections to WW1 and beyond is mostly "I don't think it would work..." instead of "I would NEVER play such a game!" Musings about a Chinese setting? You get some interest, a few shoulder-shrugs. Contemplation of the ACW? Some debate about whether it'd work and how it'd work. Revisiting any of the settings already covered? Some disappointment, some excitement. But bring up the Renaissance and suddenly there's people saying "No, never, NEVER ever!" Why is that? I don't think pike and shot makes for compelling gameplay, mostly.
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Jun 8, 2013 07:11
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SeanBeansShako posted:I was going to say, Shogun 2 has mixed unit formations doesn't it? In theory. In practice, Tercios don't actually have any spears, or dedicated gunners for that matter. They all shoot, and then draw their swords for melee--instead of a third of them being gunners, a third being spearmen, and a third being swordsmen.
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Jun 11, 2013 02:18
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Ghost of Babyhead posted:So I've completed an Oda campaign in the vanilla campaign (and thanks to my benefactor up-thread, by the way), and now I'm fiddling with the Tosa in FotS. Does anyone have any tips on winning naval battles? My ships just seem to bumble around, panic and then sink. So far my only naval victories have been through auto-resolve. Is there anything I should be doing in first-person mode? Currently I'm facing an enemy Kasuga (large-ish corvette) with my Kaiten (medium-ish corvette) and a pair of Chiyo-whatevers (cowardly gunboats). He tends to land a load of broadsides on me as I steam up, since all he has to do is rotate in place to keep his guns trained on me. Explosive shells turn wooden ships into kindling. The computer rarely builds ironclads. Putting two and two together: If you're playing vanilla, make a beeline to explosive shells and you'll never lose a naval battle again. For extra "never lose", also go down the foreign trade port side of the Civil tree so you can get a foreign trade mission. Foreign-built ironclads can be built very early in the game if you beeline for them, and they can single-handedly take down entire fleets of wooden ships if they have explosive shells. By the way, even if they say they're copper-plated or armor-plated, they're still just as vulnerable to explosive shells. Anything that isn't a Kotetsu, a La Gloire, a Warrior, or a Roanoke is a bonfire waiting to happen.
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Jun 12, 2013 09:59
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Tomn posted:To expand on this, the real reason why full ironclads are enormously superior isn't actually being invulnerable to explosive shells, though that helps - the real killing factor is that they all have greater range than basic ships. Combine this with the lethality of the upgraded shells and basically you can sink fleets while they're still steaming up to you. Don't be fooled by the fact that the Kotetsu has only one gun, because not only does that gun have incredible range, it's also forward-facing, allowing you to kite enemies by steaming into range and then going full reverse for the rest of the battle. I personally have seen no difference in how quickly a copper or iron-plated ship catches fire vs. a wooden ship, and I have played a lot of Fall lately. Nor is there any real reason to kite the computer, since they don't build ironclads and rarely seem to have AP shells. If you have an ironclad, just put on explosive shells and charge their asses. My last game was a Legendary campaign with the Jozai. A La Gloire, a Kotetsu, and a Kaiyo Maru sank thirty enemy ships--no joke. It was also the first and only time I've lost an ironclad to the enemy, as the Kotetsu caught fire, decided to flee rather than try to fight the flames, and sank. I say "to the enemy" because I've managed to torpedo my own ironclads twice. Torpedo boats are fun, but for sanity's sake, keep them well away from your main battle line.
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Jun 12, 2013 22:46
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shalcar posted:I don't know, I think Darth Mod is a great instructional primer for aspiring modders. Admittedly in a 'Don't do design like this', sort of a way, but those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it and all that. I actually liked the changes it made to the campaign map game--Realm Divide, Agent/General skills, Technologies. It was the battle map game that got turned to poo poo (morale is meaningless, everyone fights to the death, cavalry charges don't do poo poo, enjoy the sight of two blobs of samurai mashing against each other forever). I ended up stripping out all of the battle map changes and just using the campaign map changes. It worked great. Actually, I kind of want to upload the file to Steam Workshop as "Sengoku Jedi" just to send the dude into conniptions.
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Jun 14, 2013 22:00
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Loopoo posted:How lovely. Was playing as Great Britain (in N:TW) and I decided to attack the University, South-West of Paris. I'd been harassing Paris for a good ten turns or so, we'd both been exchanging blows, as I had Brittany and Normandy under my rule, and France would not cease attempting to reclaim the lands. I'd repel each full-stack army time and again (lovely Total War AI to be thankful for that, Paris churning out full-stack armies every turn) and barely get my men replenished before the next full stack of dirty Frenchmen invaded my borders. I'd previously had two full armies defending Normandy and Brittany, but I'd decided to send one off to Spain, as I felt that conquest would be more lucrative, less challenging, and allow me to take the Moroccan port for easy repairs of my ships in that part of the ocean. So I only had my one army remaining in the region, as opposed to two. This happened to me in the climactic battle of my Shimazu Legendary campaign. All three of my armies vs. 6 enemy stacks, something like 25,000 men involved. My forces took the central hill in the center of the map and fought off all comers in a brutal slugfest without any pretense of strategy. It was like a big, vicious game of King of the Hill. Between the massive amount of forces involved and the massive lag, it took nearly an hour. The hill was so littered with dead bodies you couldn't even see the grass. Right after I won and was loading the results screen, a lighting strike knocked my whole neighborhood out. I was crushed. Wasn't going to abandon my Legendary campaign though, so I soldiered on the next day and did it again. Even got a better result, which was nice. Anyway, I definitely feel you.
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Jul 8, 2013 04:56
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dogstile posted:I've found with the TSU you really have to abuse the ninja background to win. Wait until they get close, fire off a volley and order your troops back. The enemy should come forward and hopefully you should have had hidden units on either one or both sides. On battles where you can't do that, a good old charge one side and cut your way up the line should work. The artillery mod seems to inspire the AI to actually bring artillery to sieges, which complicates them significantly. It also reduces the firing arc for Parrot/Armstrong guns such that they aren't great for counter-battery fire. It makes sieges a lot more fun/challenging. Either you station enough defensive artillery on your frontier fort to keep them from simply shooting it to bits, or you keep a unit of cavalry or two handy to sneak out and ride those cowards down 
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Jul 22, 2013 02:38
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I think the best way to balance archers would be to make them more expensive. Historically, the logistical and financial difficulties associated with training, equipping, and maintaining archers was the single greatest roadblock to their use.
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Jul 30, 2013 02:58
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SeanBeansShako posted:Alternatively, download the cannon mod and uses the new artillery pieces for siege attack and defense and try and milk some fun from that game mode. Shinsengumi Police are really godlike for siege assaults, since their biggest weakness (not having Kneel Fire) is meaningless. I'm not sure whether its a mod that gives them Banzai or whether its in the base game, but it really makes them worth their koku. You also really need to diversify your artillery if you have the artillery mod. Parrot and Armstrong guns are still king for field battles, but their reduced firing arc means you need to bring mortars and other artillery types in order to really crack the shell of a fortress. It adds badly-needed strategic complexity to the game. I honestly wouldn't recommend playing without it. Really, they ought to fold that poo poo into the base game. No reason to have just three artillery pieces in a time period chock-full of them.
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Aug 3, 2013 03:56
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SeanBeansShako posted:Ah, 19th century national rivalries! I don't think the French ironclad is all that great, though. The land units you get from foreign ports and the ports themselves are literally the same stats-wise, so the ironclads are the make-or-break choice. The La Gloire sits uncomfortably in the position between the HMS Warriors "Floating Death Star" and the USS Roanokes "Strength in Numbers". I wouldn't pick the French except to get that one achievement.
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Aug 4, 2013 20:32
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pnutz posted:and boat-wise HMS Warrior is a fuckhueg pile of guns, USS Roanoke has extra-long-range guns in (non-spinning) turrets and L'Ocean are between iron-plated frigates and the warrior, except with the ability to ram It's been a while since I've played, but don't the Roanokes turrets spin? The boats are also balanced by how many you can recruit. You can get one Warrior, two Roanokes or three L'Oceans.
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Mar 25, 2016 07:08
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They sorta fixed that in Rome 2 though, thank Christ.
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Apr 6, 2016 01:34
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Dramicus posted:Yeah, this was most apparent in Shogun 2 siege battles, you could have 500 guys surrounding 1 guy on the final point and they would patiently wait for their turn to 1v1 him. Since it was the final point, he would fight to the death and could sometimes kill dozens of guys due to rng. Rome 2 fixed this a bit by having both matched animations and generic attacks. It no longer happens in Warhammer. Honestly, it was hilarious and thematic. 1v1 Honorable Duels only, gun-wielding gaijin go home
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Jun 8, 2018 23:19
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