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I had to laugh when in one of PartyElite's videos a single unit of something-or-others comes and conquers a minor settlement, raises an army from that minor settlement, and proceeds to ravage his backline for several turns before finally being caught and put down. All my flashbacks of Norscan raiders somehow just got worse, but also more fun somehow.
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Mar 18, 2018 15:34
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Krazyface posted:Something I'm noticing in the vids so far is that replenishment on top-tier units is kinda dogshit, and replacing them isn't easy either. Which, I suppose, increases the consequences for getting them killed, and encourages you to use disposable units to protect elites much more than previously.
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Mar 20, 2018 01:23
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Is thrones actually good now?
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Jan 19, 2019 23:38
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John Charity Spring posted:It's undoubtedly improved on its mechanics and added a lot of user-friendliness and cool new systems but if you didn't like the base game at all to start with, or have a particular interest in the setting, I doubt you'll get much out of it. I loved M1, M1 VI, and both warhammers. Shogun2 never grabbed me for some reason.
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Jan 20, 2019 00:04
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I just got this. Played MW1, S2, and WH1/WH2 a lot. Who should I start with? e: And are there any major, major changes to how battlefield controls/tactics tend to work? Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 19:52 on May 31, 2019 |
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May 31, 2019 19:49
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Whoever mentioned the idea of changing trebuchets into seige-only buildings instead of being things you haul with you everywhere might be on to something.
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Jun 1, 2019 13:44
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So I've played a few turns and want to see if I have the broad strokes. Armies are made up of up to three retinues. Each retinue has a character and 6 slots. Each character recruits into their retinue, giving bonuses based on class. This retinue is attached to them in situations where they, say, go govern a city, and will help them defend the city. Each character is one of 5 archetypes. Sentinels seem jack-of-all-trades, are tough, and give defensive buffs especially to infantry, commanders give big buffs especially to cavalry, strategists give ranged buffs to their retinue and can give other buff/debuffs in an aura, vanguard give (cavalry?) charge bonuses and gently caress up groups, and champions give infantry bonuses and gently caress up lords. Each also recruits specialized units of the type they favor. It seems, from a theory-crafting view, that you'd want one sentinel/champion, one vanguard/commander, and a strategist in each army. The champion also seems like it would be better for duels but maybe the sentinel works out ok by grinding them down instead? And then they both buff line infantry so there is overlap there. And then the vanguard/commander choice seems like it's the choice between great cav and a mediocre Lord vs good cav and a great lord. Meanwhile, the strategist is in a group of their own in terms of ranged support and gives army-wide effects and so doesn't overlap with anyone. Lastly, halberds are all-rounders but get turbofucked by archers. Archers lose to cavalry. Cavalry loses to spears. Spears lose to swords? Both swords and spears have shields and so are relatively safe from archers. I'm unclear on that last part, mostly because I'm not far enough in. E: any corrections would be greatly appreciated.
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Jun 1, 2019 17:35
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Man, I really don't know what I'm doing when I can't send a bunch of catbirds at the enemy lines. Sun Jian is supposedly easy mode but I'm struggling to ward off Liu Biao while trying to make headway against the Han to the south. I pressed southeast trying to secure the starting province and a story event triggered a war on my northern front and I barely have enough for my current stack, which doesn't let me upgrade much of my home provinces, and I can't currently push out to retake the city he took from me (the starting one you take anyway). The UI also makes it a lot harder for me to plan out my provinces so I'm not sure I actually know what I'm doing. I'm ok on the battle map, I just need some help strategically. Any advice for a Sun Jian start?
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Jun 3, 2019 02:01
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SKULL.GIF posted:Sun Jian's lands are pretty poo poo for revenue generation early on but he should be running a large food surplus, trade food to other factions in exchange for money and diplomatic alliances. Yeah I couldn't knock out Liu Biao fast enough and while I could beat him in a straight up fight once I never could make headway. I'll seen if I can hit him and then sue for peace so I can march east and come back once I'm more secure and can afford to field Sun Ce, Lady Wu, and...whoever else. Shame, that's the first war I've ever really "lost" since he grabbed Jiangling's fishing village. I'll be back for it, and I'm killing your vassals too. 
Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 11:46
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toasterwarrior posted:I think I've found the biggest hurdle to "optimizing" army compositions: officers. Both availability and compatibility with each other. Apart from hoping to get lucky to even get the class you want, sometimes their class seemingly influences the sort of traits they have. Vanguards generally being aggro dudes, and therefore not jiving with patient Strategists, and suchlike. Yeah its pretty great all around. I don't think I've ever made a "perfect" army yet. e: whoever thought it was a good idea to let you retreat when you're in forced march stance again was an idiot. Its literally never been fun to have an army come out of the fog of war, menace your outposts (seriously, even when I'm running a huge food and supply surplus garrisons go into attrition immediately) and then run away again. Even when you can catch them, they've still done a bit of damage and tie up your troops. Winning a battle against someone becomes an exercise in trying to hunt them down slowly while hoping you don't need that army for several turns. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 15:11
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alex314 posted:Someone posted that you can attack them and cancel move with backspace. You end in their zone of control and they end in yours, so in their turn they either attack you or wait. Then in your turn you can go for the kill. toasterwarrior posted:Now I'm wishing there's an aggro counterpart to Strategists, haha. Commanders, Sentinels, Strategists vs. Vanguards, Champions, and something something Also, what makes troops get certain formations? Is it the rank of the troop or general? My spearmen don't seem able to form shield walls anymore and I swear I did it last time I played. They're not spearmen with the "unable to form advanced formations" one, either.
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Jun 3, 2019 15:45
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I really need to remember that a full stack is nowhere near mandatory for doing things. 2x2 can clear up smaller territories really fast.
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Jun 3, 2019 19:50
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Sun Jian's mercenary troops are kinda nuts. Mercenary axes own.
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Jun 4, 2019 02:31
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sassassin posted:Makes your settlements grow faster. Higher populations give bonuses to unit replenishment and income. And penalties to public order. You also need to have a minimum population to upgrade iirc.
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Jun 4, 2019 12:00
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I just assumed Dong Zhuo was supposed to die by turn 5.
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Jun 4, 2019 13:08
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Goddamn, I'm not sure building higher tier cities are even worth it. Huge public order penalties that end up hurting more than you can compensate for with buildings so you're sinking money into something that will just revolt on you. Regional cities might be where I top out.
Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Jun 4, 2019 |
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Jun 4, 2019 15:47
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Just unlocked some Pearl Dragons and I'm excited to try them out. They look durable and killy melee and good against ranged while their formation changes let's them form a spearwall and lose all ranged defense in return for charge reflect. Should make a good core. Now I just need a suitable commander for a new group and I'll be good.
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Jun 4, 2019 19:40
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God loving drat it I keep trying to clear out the Han from my southern lands and the Emperor keeps being bounced around to people who I can't quite go to war with yet. And Sun Ce is making a heroic march back north to help out Sun Jian in a fight against one of the other duchies since my b-tier armies have to go deal with Cao Cao's perfidious revolt from my vassalage. I probably should have just tried to re-deploy him instead of force-marching him but I'm not sure I have the cash. Are people finding Champions or Sentinels more useful to lead the core of an infantry force that mostly screens for a fairly ranged/cav heavy army? I'm hoping to make it six Pearl Dragons and might change it up for the Azure Dragons when I get them since I really just need them to not die while the other forces do their work. I think I'm going really slowly since it's turn 80 and I just got made duke Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jun 4, 2019 |
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Jun 4, 2019 23:32
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It's annoyingly hard to see who gets unique skills because the UI is just really bad. I know Sun Ren gets a ranged attack and the commander +move speed aura, but otherwise can't tell at all. Anyone else, (especially in Sun Jian's faction) have any good ones or is there a list around? Incidentally, yeah, Pearl Dragons are some tough motherfuckers. Sun Ce just held off 5-1 odds against the Duchy of Zhong with 6 of them as his main line, plus excellent ranged support and a bit of cavalry. I really need some heavier cavalry options though.
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Jun 6, 2019 21:12
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If the Dragon units tend to be hybrids, what are the axe ones hybrids of? They're the next ones I can unlock and I already have the pearl glaives who seem like they can formation-switch from assault axes to spears.
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Jun 7, 2019 23:39
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I'll admit I almost completely forgot yellow exists as an element so I'd forgotten they did anything. Sun Jian's mercenary axe units make such good line infantry I haven't used anything but them and some ji for cavalry screens.
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Jun 8, 2019 05:09
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EthanSteele posted:I'm super trash at Sun Jian. I end up having to sit in the first place for a year or two because Liu Biao will walk down and take it. Yeah I did that. Once you thrash him once in the field and he sues for peace take it. If he doesn't, keep using Sun Jian there while Sun Ce leads an army against the Han. A two-stack is more than enough to clean up the Han fast. I also love the diplomacy game. I keep vassaling Yuan Shao because his personality text makes it seem like he would absolutely hate it more than being ground down to a pulp and Sun Ce has smacked him around a few times now. The last fight was actually a tough farm defense where I was outnumbered 2.5 to 1 and only won because 6 Pearl Dragons can hold off a lot. Also, because Sun Ce charged out through the weakest attack force and then led some suicide charges into the rear of the attacking force. I should have done the red reforms earlier. I really need some proper heavy cavalry. Also, I think my ideal army comp is a sentinel, strategist, and vanguard, each basically leading a full force of their color (vanguard can get some yellow cav in there too).
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Jun 9, 2019 16:58
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Also, when something says it reduces corruption in neighboring commanderies does it also reduce internal corruption as well? If so there's an upgrade somewhere that forces you to go from internal corruption reduction to external corruption reduction and I'm not sure I like that.
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Jun 9, 2019 18:55
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Eschatos posted:Yeah it does. I just booted the game up to check. Commandery with the -10% adjacent corruption building and no other modifiers has 38% corruption. Adjacent commandery with no modifiers also has 38%. Another adjacent commandery with the -10% to its own corruption building has 33%. Oh good. Sun Jian is about to start using courts really heavily. E: I just realized that I hope charge reflect supersedes charge negation. It'd really suck if my spearmen are reflecting the charge bonus they already negated. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jun 9, 2019 |
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Jun 9, 2019 19:54
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Fangz posted:But you don't have to war for your coalition partner, I thought? You don't but I think you suffer diplomatic penalties with coalition members for not doing so. It doesn't count as a betrayal though, nor does it break the coalition.
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Jun 10, 2019 02:19
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Is there an event outcome that leads to Sun Jian dying in 191 or does he have to actually get killed in a battle? Also, small dumb thing: There's a set, constellation. I have no idea what it does, because it requires Sentinel Armor and a two-handed axe, which Sentinels apparently can't equip.
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Jun 10, 2019 14:19
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Do the shock cav dragons just have a fuckton of charge damage or something? "Low melee damage" is not a trait I want on my shock cav unless there's a very compelling reason.
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Jun 10, 2019 22:29
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Do enemy armies use the army supply mechanic? If so, giving forced march a 10 or 15 supply cost to activate would make it so you could flee or rapidly cross terrain while being a bit less annoying for raiding.
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Jun 10, 2019 23:10
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sassassin posted:Got the generic surrendered officer event after taking a random undefended farm and Xu Chu showed up in my court. That's insanely good. I've only gotten a full army guerilla deployment and some nice general gear that has been working for some sets. I really need to head west and get that loving horse tamer.
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Jun 10, 2019 23:32
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sassassin posted:The school buildings are trash. How so?
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Jun 11, 2019 12:09
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Won as Sun Jian in 37 years. Sadly, Lady Wu didn't survive to see it, but everyone else did. The biggest takeaway is that trebuchets are way, way too good. They need to be massively turned down since the AI never builds any so one or two forces them to come to you basically all the time. Between them and formations, a Strategist seems mandatory. The only army that didn't have one was Sun Jian's, which had a vanguard with all-army guerilla deployment and a horde of infantry and cavalry to just loving rush things down. Sniping heroes with Sun Ren never got old, though it was tricky to land sometimes. Also, heroes trying to duel Sun Ce with Yuan Yu's weapon just so he'd stop tearing through armies never got old, because they basically just acted as health packs for him. Finally, sentinels are awesome. I think commanders need some love, and could give troops in the army some basic formations as well.
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Jun 11, 2019 22:01
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I'd love it if they could somehow make Lord bonuses a little more broadly applicable so you could encourage each little retinue to be a semi-capable fighting force in their own right instead of having each Lord bring one of ranged/infantry/cavalry for a full stack. I don't know how you'd do that though. Retinue system is great. Only other change I'd like is to be able to add to an administrator's retinue while they were off the field.
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Jun 12, 2019 04:10
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Oh hey winning the game unlocks Dong Zhou. I didn't know that, that's a neat bonus. So I've played Sun Jian and am looking for a very different playstyle for a second playthrough. Any of the Yellow Turbans fun? Ma Teng seems fairly different and fun.
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Jun 12, 2019 22:22
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sassassin posted:My general with the charge reflect armour finally got in a serious fight. Cavalry charging into mercenary archers (who are firing at them) and then dying instantly when they make contact. I honestly think that charge negation supersedes charge reflect, which is a shame. E: vvvv archery masters are great but Liu Biao beelined for me and I couldn't take down Guan Yu before he wiped me out. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 01:04
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Sam Sanskrit posted:Cao Cao wins a battle in the novel due to his cutting edge catapults. You want them modeled somehow. Sure, but they're still way too good, especially with ranks improving their accuracy. Not only are they persistently best in terms of kills, their range forces positioning changes and gives you control over the battlefield. If they had half of the killing power they do they'd still be worth bringing.
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Jun 13, 2019 13:47
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Fangz posted:Do I seriously have to spell this out? But I'd want a Strategist in my army anyway. They're huge force multipliers in terms of formations, ammo, and abilities. They're one of the best hero types even without trebuchets.
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Jun 13, 2019 14:49
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Fangz posted:They are force multipliers but there still needs to be *something* you multiply. I don't understand this idea you have that a unit can't be overpowered if it needs some kind of support to really really shine. Flaming shot trebs wiping out 3+ units each, prior to the enemy entering range or doing anything of value, is a bit much. Even one suddenly warps the field. E: and the point of me saying strategists are force multipliers is that I'd want one even if they didn't get trebs, so it's not like I'm losing out by being 'forced' to bring a Strategist so I can bring a trebuchet. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 15:06
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The only treb-less army I had that came close to trebs was one where a vanguard had gotten the unique armor that gives the entire army guerilla deployment. Even then I seriously considered kicking Lady Wu out in favor of a Strategist for army-wide wedge formation, and probably would have without an ancillary that gave it. E: and it still sucked on sieges compared to my other armies and wasn't much better in field battles despite being theoretically specialized for them. It was neat that I could build an army like that, and certainly was unique, but yeah. Strategists seem mandatory. Also it's weird that shock infantry get no formations that emphasize their shock nature, instead getting two different defensive ones. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 16:45
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litany of gulps posted:If trebuchets are ruining your single player game, just stop using them? Build your army differently? There are a million ways to set up your armies and a lot of cool unique units out there. E: or just not at all tbh. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 18:21
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:In what situation would you want to sack and withdraw from a city, you'd either want to expand your territory or eliminate an enemy and leaving them the city seems self-defeating in the long run? As Sun Jian my corruption was already stupid and I had vassals north of me so I would send raiding stacks to sack cities, make money to upgrade my poor, huge empire, and let my vassals have an easier time holding the territory for me. Sometimes I'd take them and give them away for the relations boost.
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Jun 14, 2019 01:06
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