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Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

achillesforever6 posted:

Yeah I have to change the files for EB to give me more money to play most of the factions. I'm terrible at money management :negative:

Take the easy way out with ~ add_money 4000!



You probably aren't bad at money management, the EB devs just didn't really give a poo poo about starting budgets. For a lark, try playing Pontus or Hayasdan and weep. They start out about 8k in the shitter, and all the nearby cities are fortified with a billion rebels.


EBs a fun mod, with a lot of cool units, but getting to the point where you can release those elite cataphracts is so hard without just taking over the world. That's a problem in all TW games honestly, so I don't really have a problem with cheating in order to prolong the game.

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Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Asehujiko posted:

Which of the big Rome mods have the most user friendly kind of sperg? I mean attention to detail as opposed to replacing all the tooltips with ancient germanic because "realism"

Umm, EB will use native languages to refer to buildings and units, so that might be a little off-putting. Most units are subtitled, but not always, so there's a little difficulty in that? It isn't difficult to work out which units will be your workhorses and which are funny gimmicks.

There is fairly extensive documentation on their site and their forums if you're really stuck, but nothing is very difficult to handle (Besides getting Armenia out of the hole while the Seleucids toss deathstacks at you)




Most of the Rome-focused mods are more user friendly, since its a familiar subject for us. I don't know if you want to have a different recruitable legion for every Roman province, but if that's your cup of tea, there's that.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

a pipe smoking dog posted:

I had to give up on Fall of the Samurai because I have never won a single naval battle. Seriously I love naval battles in all the other Total Wars that have had them but no matter how unbalanced the battle in Fall my ships always end up blowing up.

I learned how to fight naval battles in Fall by imitating the AI. When you steam towards an enemy line of ships, there is a magical point where the distance between you is perfect. If you order your line to turn broadside at this point, you will start a regular line battle and you won't have your 26-gun frigate explode in the face of some punk-rear end sKanko Maru.

It helps to focus fire on single ships. I feel that your ships just have a chance to blow up with each hit it receives, so don't let them be ganged up on, and try your best to gang up on the enemy's. It's also never worth it to charge line of ships, you will be destroyed each time, and every one of your ships will break in two.

One tactic that works alright is to send a fast ship or two with explosive rounds straight into the other line. They'll usually blow up, but if they set some ships on fire they've done more than they needed.

Another thing to try is using the manual aim on ships. If you aim right, you can definitely hit ships before they come into auto-fire range. Ripple those idiots with some frigate iron! Using broadsides seems to give you a damage bonus, but it's hard to manage all those ships trying to jockey into broadside position. It's usually best to micromanage the frigate, because of its firepower, rather than anything else. Use the fast reload sparingly, the poo poo reload phase hurts you just as much.

I still lose naval battles, but my ships don't explode anymore! In fact, I've blown up a few AI ships, and that's very satisfying.


Oh, and if you want to say gently caress you to naval battles, just take the British trade option and buy some HMS Warriors. Those ships are magical.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
Sylink, you probably played as the Saka Rauka, who are probably the hardest faction to play in the entire mod. You don't need the tip, but you're supposed to abuse the hell out of your general's bodyguards to mega-charge everything and absorb arrows.

Truthfully, that's the same for M2TW as well. Oh well!

Horse archers stop being useful when units get more armour. EB ups all defence stats so it's harder to obliterate infantry like in vanilla. It's fun going back to vanilla and leaving mountains of bright pink corpses with like 2 basic horse archers.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
The best thing about FoTS is sending out a swarm of one-unit armies and watching the AI battle each other. Every gunpowder army will get demolished by shogitai and kachi, it's like watching The Last Samurai in reverse.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
How would it be possible to achieve a Shogun 2 level of unit balance in Rome 2 without going off the historical rails? The setting doesn't lend itself to a set of overarching stat rules, because there is an existential difference between a Gaulish warband and a Roman legion. How about the balance for a faction like the Iceni, matched against the Parthians? There's no equivalence between a chariot and a cataphract.

I do enjoy Shogun 2 multiplayer, and I agree that the success of that is due to the tight sense of unit balance, and the lack of factional bonuses. That sort of design philosophy doesn't lend itself to realism, even pop history, when the competing factions don't come from the same cultures. It would be disappointing to fling some Dacians at some hoplites and find that they perform identically. There should be a fundamental statistical difference between two units of vastly divergent cultures, one that will actually influence playstyle.

The game's MP balance can be maaintained alongside statistical differences by shifting the focus away from player controlled army composition to composition dictated by faction. I think that a small number of multiple-faction stat "templates", with factional variety represented through unique skins, would be a reasonable solution. A uniform system of attack/defense and so on would be underwhelming within the scope of the game.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Mans posted:

I think that's it really. By reskin i'm having flashbacks to the entirety of non-Greco-Roman factios being nothing more than literally the same unit but with different pants and a few "unique" units and the Greek tragedy of all armies being composed of the same hoplite\phalanx model. I want all factions to be balanced but with unique aesthetic descriptions, not the drab that was the original Rome.

Have you even been looking at the promo stuff for Rome 2? poo poo's diverse. The first Rome also suffered from a design philosophy that was more hollywood than anything, but it doesn't seem to be the case this time around.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Gort posted:

Are there any balance mods for Napoleon? It seems silly that a direct hit with a cannonball will kill about two infantrymen, but will kill half a unit of cavalry. It also feels dumb that you can charge a unit of line infantry with cavalry and lose the ensuing melee. It feels like cavalry are just pointless.

Increasing artillery casualties unbalances the game because the AI doesn't understand how to hide their units behind a ridgeline. It's already bad enough that I can destroy the AI's cavalry component in the first five minutes of the battle.

Treat all cavalry as light cavalry from earlier TW games and you should be good. You shouldn't be charging anybody from the front. Keep multiple units around so that you can cycle charges and retreats. The more cavalry you have in an area, the more likely the AI will form square, which are vulnerable to infantry and artillery. I once landed a lucky round of carcass shot that legit killed an entire regiment in square.

Cavalry are a support force, your infantry should be doing the heavy lifting while your horsemen prance around and cause confusion and disorder. If you are attacking a fresh and unengaged infantry unit, use wedge and diamond formation after they're invented, they give you a flat bonus to charging, even if they look weird.

Also, be careful when charging the side of an infantry fight. Your cavalry will bowl over your own men when they're in the "charging" animation. Don't ever charge through the back of your own men, unless they're truly worthless troops.

Here's a run-down:

Hussars/Dragoons/Chevauxleger/etc.
Destroy enemy cavalry and artillery, charge infantry after they're engaged. Functionally identical to each other, the only time when stats come into play are in long-rear end melee fights, which you want to avoid anyways. It's all about the charge. Pull back and regroup whenever you can. I don't ever use dragoons to shoot, I'm not very good with infantry :shrug:

Lancers
I love lancers, but they're finicky. They have an enormous charge bonus, but are fragile after that, so you can treat them like cavalry heroes from Shogun 2 :). You should try to take the time to line them up before you charge, spreading them as wide as the formation they're charging. In a wedge/diamond, you will always end up splitting a unit into two, which makes it easier for follow up charges to rout them. They're fast, so they are great at counter-charging cavalry. Also, they are the only cavalry that can charge a formed infantry square. It's terrifying.

Cuirassiers
The only heavy cavalry. They are the only guys you can send into the front of an infantry regiment. They have much better lasting power in melee because of their sky-high defense values. They're too slow and get tired too easily to chase down cavalry or artillery, so you're better of using them to lead the charge.

Light Dragoons
Amazing units. Maneuvre them like light cavalry, and blast away anybody in range. Infantry is too slow to turn and face them, cavalry will melt away in a volley. The French get them in like their first barracks upgrade, and I hate it.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Rabhadh posted:

Its not historically accurate for the time, but the guy was wearing the sideways horsehair plume which marks him as an officer, not a common soldier.

The Spartans were famously conservative and reactionary, so it's not as unreasonable as New Kingdom Egyptians. Maybe a dude with a family heirloom he wanted to bring to the party.

So far everything is sounding great. I'm very happy that Epirus is in :)

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

achillesforever6 posted:

Yeah they should have stuck with the Thebeans, but I guess they don't have the "Brand Recognition" as the Spartans do to modern audiences. Though weren't the Thebeans destroyed anyway by the time this game starts?

Alexander sacked Thebes for getting to uppity, and never bothered to head down to Sparta. Thebes never recovered. Sparta hung around and made a coalition with Athens to fight the Macedonians as a part of the general slap fight there, before the Romans rolled up and cold-cocked them all.


Has anybody made a patchwork map from all the previews yet? I think I remember it from a while back, but I can't find it or anything, can somebody confirm/deny so I know I'm not crazy?

Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 07:35 on May 10, 2013

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
Stop making a bunch of castles to hide behind and conquer provinces like a man. Castles suck. Don't build a castle in every province, you're not gonna need all those build slots. Upgrade farms whenever you can, problem solved. This isn't hard.

If you don't want to use agents, don't build them. There were assassins and spies and poo poo in Rome and Medieval, they worked the same way so I dunno what part of that is new poo poo to deal with.

I don't understand what kind of game you're playing that forces you to deal with christian rebellions and family drama and agonizing over tech trees? Like, just build military units and conquer people, and pick techs that look good. Like if something says like "+10 percent to tax rate" that means you get more money so go and research it. How complicated can this be? Use the extra money to build more military units and conquer more people.



Oh poo poo, naval battles. I dunno, just outnumber people and use the special abilities a lot if you are playing a battle you need to in. Otherwise you can just autoresolve everything. I don't remember fighting a lot of naval battles during my first campaign.


Speaking of bullshit naval battles, who on the Empire design team thought it was a good idea to give the Spanish a basic trade ship that mounts 60 loving cannons? I cannot build a single ship that comes close to that number until like turn 50, so the trade node poo poo is completely not worth it.

Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 07:24 on May 12, 2013

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

WoodrowSkillson posted:

The point is they affect me more than they did previously, which is the annoying part of the agents. 10 turns in I lose a province to a christian rebellion spawned by a missionary because I was "conquering like a man" and my stack was sieging the next region. The same missionary then converts the 3 ninjas I send after him and keeps causing problems in that region.I get rid of him by wiping out his clan, but my apparent ignorance of the fact that I'm not supposed to develop my cities in this game as opposed to every other total war game caused me to outpace my farm production. I did not realize I had to research a stupid tech to build another farm, instead of just building it.

I'm not worried about family drama, its little things like appointing commissioners and dealing with nigh unkillable missionaries that are just annoying and don't add anything fun to the game. Having to research tech just adds another layer of unneeded complexity to the game and is just one more thing to pay attention to.

Thanks for explaining to me that 10 to tax revenue is a good thing though, I had no idea what those numbers meant at all. Do you have any other advanced learning like that? I am rather confused as to what "plus 1 to melee attack" means since I am a drooling idiot.

I'm not calling you an idiot man, I'm sorry if I sounded like it.

I find the tech tree to be loads more straightforward then the construction trees from older games because it does spell everything out when you mouse over the little tabs. After you're familiarised, you won't be spending a lot of time on the tech screen. Like a lot of the extra bits in the game, it's a click and forget deal.

It sounds like you were hit with a combined food shortage and religion penalty, which are both things you can avoid now. You're not going to see christians in your new campaign, at least for a while. When you do, you can use your own monks to passively convert provinces back and also reduce unrest when garrisoned in a city. The game expects you to assassinate monks, but that's sometimes a toss-up. Conquering the monk's clan is a pretty good strategy as well.

Only one clan starts the game christian, and they're on Kyushu. The other faction that might cause religious strife is the Ikko-Ikki, and they sometimes blob up in the central region of Honshu. Other times they get eaten during the first few turns, but be prepared for them if they're still around. You can level baby ninjas pretty safely by burning down paddy fields and other lowly poo poo, but if you focus on the assassination upgrades, you'll have an easy way to get rid of monks and missionaries.

Early warning: The foreign trade port you get an option to accept will also passively convert the province to christianity.


Shalcar covered the food stuff pretty well. Always shoot for a surplus. And keep in mind that markets also consume food, but you can tear those down when you're pinched for rice.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
Merchants make more money on resources that you don't have within your own territory. Making a trade agreement with the faction that owns the resource will also increase profit. Usually you will make back the investment within 10-ish turns, since they don't cost any upkeep.

If an enemy merchant (Or any other agent) is making a ton of trouble for you, you can kill them without using an assassin. Encircle the agent on the 8 squares surrounding it (impassable squares can be empty) with military units, and then move a ninth one onto the square the agent is sitting in. They will keel over and die on the spot.

This is an exploit, of course, but it's very useful when playing SS, when you do not want to deal with a bullshit 9-star heretic or something.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
MP is active enough, but yeah, it'll be tough starting out. It's best to find a friend and play each other for a while, to at least unlock the basic samurai units.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
I just got the coupons after sitting on Empire for years. So just wait it out if they're not popping up.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Torrannor posted:

I hate all combat after the medieval period. I played maybe 10 battles in Empire, after that I let the AI fight all battles for me. Lines of gunpowder units firing on other lines of gunpowder units, interrupted by cannon fire is extremely boring for me. That's why I generally like Shogun 2, but matchlock units are again extremely irritating, and I didn't even bother with FotS. I cringe every time people are demanding a game set in the Renaissance. So I am really anticipating Rome 2, because it is the only setting that has no gunpowder weapons (except Rise of the Samurai).

If you play a cavalry heavy game, the gunpowder TWs become much more dynamic! I'm not sure if I know how to play the infantry game in Napoleon at all.


Is there an advantage to having the high ground in an infantry shooting battle? Is there a point to doubling up a regiment like the AI does? Does infantry automatically avoid shooting into friendly infantry? I really can't tell, so I play around with horses instead.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Grand Prize Winner posted:

I'm playing M2 again, and I've got a little question. In the grand campaign kingdom selection panel, there's a little thingy that lists a faction's strengths and weaknesses. England, for example, "Boasts superb longbowmen and strong infantry" but "Fields a poor variety of cavalry" while the Byzantines have "Good heavy cavalry and missile cavalry, capable archers" but "Lacks late period gunpowder." The notes for Venice confuse me. It says that Venice "Boasts strong militia infantry, good colonial units, and late technology" while suffering with "Somewhat poor cavalry." What the hell are "colonial units?" Mercenaries from far-off provinces? Something that I'm not getting? What does this mean?

You can look at the unit rosters through the custom battles interface. They don't mean anything, gameplay-wise. They're referring to foreign units available to the Venetians like stradiots.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
Man, when a RTW game gets to that point, I really really stop giving a poo poo. You start getting awful traits for your generals when your treasury hits 50k, so you basically have to churn out an endless train of military units to purposefully reduce profits. God forbid you conquer a single province, the trade income alone is another five legions you need to recruit.


Unmodded RTW is still pretty fun though, especially since you can play like a total jackass and come out on top. I really liked spamming 20 cavalry unit armies and bowling over all the Romans. As the Greeks, you could hoard up Spartan hoplites, deploy them in a circle, and be completely invulnerable to any attack. The Parthians were always good because all their units wore neon pink, and your battles would look like a bomb rear end rave.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
You need to install the Yari animation mod to get those line infantry throwing rifles. Otherwise, they do the dumb ashigaru thing and draw out their swords.


For the Realm Divide guys, any vassals you create after Realm Divide will stay buddies with you. They'll also be technologically impotent, but they'll sometimes send armies out to help you! Always reinforce these battles because they are hilarious to watch. Your buds in FotS do this too!

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Fizzil posted:

In that preview article, the camel archers look really wrong, plus in the distance there are camel riders with shield and lance. I do know a little bit of earlier Arabs (if they were supposed to be that), then camel archers usually fought unarmored and half naked, besides i never read of an account where a guy would charge on top of a camel, it simply doesn't have the momentum a horse could provide for a lance charge. Camels made very good transport for mobile infantry if you wanna get anal about the detail. MY IMMERSION

I played a little Rome 1 yesterday and re-discovered Cataphract Camels. I'm glad that era of design is over.



The problem with pike and shot is that Total War games don't do formations and mixed units. Nothing very interesting is developed during the pike and shot era, it's big stacks of pikes moving with other big stacks of pikes the whole way through. The AI sure as hell can't use pikemen either.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

canyoneer posted:

How do I get my cannons in Napoleon to actually stop firing? Sometimes I'd like to stop the volleys for a moment to have cavalry cross the arc or keep them from firing at impossible distances or into the dirt.

I turn off 'fire at will' and those boneheads still keep shooting. The only way I've been able to address it is to limber the cannons, which is a slow process when the bullets are hissing. Any thoughts?

Select them and mash backspace/whatever your stop order button is.

In Empire, you couldn't get them to stop if you wanted to.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

canyoneer posted:

One more question. The ranged cavalry cannot seem to get the idea to use 'melee only' mode when selected. This results (especially with 2 units selected) in the rear ranks shooting the forward line in the back of the head. :smith:

Are they just so unpredictably dangerous that I shouldn't bother trying to use two units together in concert? I used two units of cavalry as sort of a pincer or hammer/anvil in the easy/easy Italian campaign to great effect. Now it appears that they just cannot resist an opportunity to frag each other.

edit: Also, re: American Civil War, the new Civilization V expansion coming out this month has the ACW as a playable scenario, and it looks really fun. It will probably adapt better in that game than in TW though...

Did you turn off fire at will? There is no melee only option, the melee button just allows you to force a unit to melee attack.

Infantry will hold their fire when friendly infantry crosses their path, btw. It's only infantry and infantry.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Quantumfate posted:

I'm pretty sure empire total war has grouped unit formations: I'm playing through empire now and the combat is pretty fun and tactical dealing with unit formations and all.

Not those pussy poo poo formations you can select when you make a group. I mean there's no such thing as a Tercio in any TW game, and that's like half of your pike and shot game gone.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
Oh my goodness the cities have unique graphics, CA has read my mind.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
Stainless Steel is fine if you do not let it install "Byg's Grim Reality Mod" or whatever the hell it's called. The installer will also ask you if you want "Realistic Recruitment Time", which isn't so bad, but it mostly increases recruitment times so you probably don't want it either.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
The Ptolemies weren't keen on arming the native Egyptians, but they did end up doing it in the time period. They look fine. The eye makeup is the only thing that's a little wacky, but I have no idea if they still did that in Hellenic Egypt.


I'm kind of sick of the camels though. Camels always look awful. Cataphract camels is the single dumbest thing about Rome 1.

Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Jul 4, 2013

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
They haven't gone with old-kingdom Egyptians at all. Look at the units from Rome 1 and compare them to the models in the screenshots.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
The cone is to deflect downward swings at your head. That's pretty dang tall though.


drat those camels in the background. drat them to hell. Those are cataphract armoured dudes on camels, what an atrocity.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Lord Tywin posted:

Why do you hate Camels so much?

I don't hate camels, they're just kinda dumb! Between those posts I discovered that the Parthians really did use camels as shock cavalry, so colour me embarrassed! Still, the camel charge is one of the goofiest things in the game.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Fizzil posted:

Where did you read this? I'm really anal about middle eastern history, because i know camels weren't used for charging, but mobility and archery. Also the cone hat and battle axe is Sassanian, but then again more unique Iranian armor styles is always welcome i guess.

I'm a little torn with their current iteration of the eastern cultures, but style still trumps historical accuracy sometimes.

From an account by Herodian on the battle of Nisibis. He seems to be the only source I can find that actually describes the camels charging, but I can accept a questionable source for a TW game. It's better than the head-throwers.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Junkenstein posted:

Maybe it's time Creative Assembly moved onto a different type of wargame altogether. After all, the only thing that's really changed since Shogun is the move from a Risk Style map to something more Civ-lite (and that happened in the third Total War). They could start a 20th century/modern wargame from scratch, but still keep the turn-based strategy/real-time battles dynamic.

A more realistic expectation is that CA will never do this because the strongpoint of the series are the tactical battles. There's plenty of other eras for them to explore where the battle engine works.


The amount of people who want a 20th century Total War game is pretty bonkers to me. That WWI mod is pretty awful. It seems like a good way to exploit an AI that barely understands muskets, and little else. It could also be good to bore your friends to death.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
Units don't shatter in Medieval 2. There is a point when a retreating unit won't come back, but you won't be informed of it.

Medieval really isn't a game where rallying is super important though, just use your general as heavy cavalry and rout the enemy before they rout you.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Koramei posted:

You guys don't like light cavalry? I think they're the most useful cavalry type in the game by far- yari and donderbuss are the only other ones that are decent at all. They're terrible at fighting even the cheapest enemy infantry sure, but they annihilate opposing cavalry- generals included (you must have had a weird experience canyoneer, a light cav will easily beat a mounted general unless it's practically fully leveled), and then when your infantry routs the other army they can chase them down. Considering how cheap they are your army should nearly always have a few units of them in it.


Yari cav are basically the better version of light cav, with more men per unit to boot. Don't use light cav unless you are stuck in the early game as Takeda or something.


Gort posted:

A Paradox game with Total War battles would be badass and you know it.

A Paradox game with Total War battles would be trivial and you know it.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Koramei posted:

They're twice as expensive, much harder to come by (the ai likes making stables with nothing else a lot), slower, and only barely win against light cav. Now yeah, they're great against infantry, but that requires an army tailored towards them, whereas light cavalry fit in every situation and are so expendable and cheap you might as well always make them.


None of that is true. Yari cavalry are exactly as fast as light cav, have double the bonus against cavalry, and aren't great against infantry at all. Light cavalry has a niche in being the early-game cavalry unit, but continuing to use them is a waste of a unit slot.

I mean it when I say yari cavalry is an upgraded version of light cavalry. Lights are worse in every single way. You're probably thinking of katana cavalry.


Edit: If your cav strat is to hide the horses in a forest and then beeline for the general, I guess light cav is good enough.

Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jul 15, 2013

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
You can waste unit slots by using poor units? I can't access the in-game encyclopedia right now, but this online version should be accurate.

http://www.totalwars.ru/encyclopedia/units/cav_spear_yari_cavalry.html

http://www.totalwars.ru/encyclopedia/units/cav_spear_light_cavalry.html

Look at those stats. There is no facet where yari cavalry does not win out. Light cav even has 75% as many men as other cavalry units, so there isn't even numbers to make it up. Are you playing with the battle difficulty on easy?



Most players do not have a lot of cavalry in their army. When you don't have a lot of a decisive unit, you generally want its representatives to be as effective as possible. Why would you use the worst cavalry unit in the game to be your cavalry arm?


Edit: I am positive that you have confused yari and katana cavalry with each other.

Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jul 15, 2013

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Koramei posted:

^^yeah, if cost wasn't a factor I'd agree with him, but it is. Like, a huge factor. Are you playing radious' mod or something, Slim Jim Pickens?

No, I can see the cost difference right there in the encyclopedia. The cost is never a problem for me. The cost-benefit thing isn't as big of a factor as with infantry because of the different volumes involved. I make like, 2 units of yari cav, so upkeep is maybe 200 koku more. I'm also spending less time and money replacing them because they aren't so easily ganked by other units.

Koramei posted:

Shogun 2 is much more transparent than the older games, but there are still a bunch of hidden stats. Yari might well trounce light (although I still don't think they do- I'll test it in a minute), but the encyclopedia isn't what you should be going on to determine which units you want to use. Especially with cavalry when stuff like unit size comes into play. And most of my games are set on hard or legendary thank you very much :colbert:.

Well what hidden stat is affecting your units? The unit sizes are just something I remember, and I think it's pretty painful to have a cavalry unit that doesn't perform well and has a smaller unit size to add insult to injury.

Also, do you mean that play battles on hard or legendary? That would pretty much make this argument pointless since the AI is getting arbitrary boosts in stats and I wouldn't be playing the same way.

Koramei posted:

And I don't understand what you're trying to say in your second point at all. No I don't care if my cavalry are as effective as possible, I'm not playing the Muromachi Period Equestrian Championship Simulator, every unit has a role that is counteracted by its price. Yari cav are twice as expensive as light cav and the only thing they do that light cav can't is attack infantry. If you're going a heavy horse army or a hammer/anvil, the situations where yari cav are useful, you need to tailor your army to that. With light cav, you can fling them on as an afterthought. They are very much not an early game only unit. The only unit in the game that actually gets outclassed-in-every-way-never-make-again is the bow ashigaru.

Like I said, if your only objective with cavalry is to send them on a beeline towards the enemy general, lights are probably fine for that. I've never tried it.

If you are planning to use cavalry in any capacity greater than that, you don't want them to be lights because they are too vulnerable to everything, and won't do a good enough job. Even winning a fight with lights will gently caress them, because of their low unit size.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Koramei posted:

And Slim Jim Pickens I feel like our argument is just going in circles so it's probably time we moved on, but maybe we understand each other's case a little better now!

Yeah, definitely. I think I understand now that our playstyles are just drastically different, so I'm sorry if I called you bad at games for a little back there. All jokes on this end! :angel:



Torrannor posted:

While we are on the topic of cavalry in Shogun 2, one of the things I am looking forward to is owning the battlefield again with my Macedonian Companion Cavalry, or drowning the enemy in arrows with my Parthian mounted archers. There was not enough badass cavalry in Japan.

Cavalry is still badass in Shogun 2, but the stricter game dynamics make them worse overall. When the basic unit is Yari ashigaru, the hard counter to cavalry is always present and makes it risky to commit right off the bat.

However, if you're ever fighting the Ikko Ikki, make some Katana cavalry and watch them shred Loan Swords.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
Capturing ships is great when you are Austria and can't figure out how to put more than 74 guns on a ship.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
What exactly is the problem?

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Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Grand Prize Winner posted:

I mean like how can you tell which buildings allow you to recruit which troops and what is all this Latin poo poo? And when I tried to google stuff it always pointed me to threads on the Europa Barbarorum forums where someone asked a question and got a bunch of 'heh read the manual, pleb :agesilaus:' snark from the devs.

Stables, archery ranges and barracks have been condensed into two buildings that recruit units. One is factional and the other is local. All units have provinces where they may or may not be recruited, but generally you can count on easy stuff like hoplites in Greece or archers in Persia. Generally, anywhere there is a "homeland" building in the browser, you will be able to recruit factional units.

The most important buildings are those government type buildings with the roman numerals. The higher the number, the more buildings you can make in that province. It also limits the level of recruitment center you can construct. These government buildings are themselves limited by the "Homeland/Expansion" resources in the province. I.E, the Macedonians can't build advanced government buildings in Arabia.

The IV level of government, allied state, causes the town to get hosed up if a family member enters the town. You need to recruit a general, and only they can govern that province.


The EB forums have a lot of documentation about the minutiae of the game. There are a ton of scripts in-game that need to get triggered in order for things to get shook up. For example, the Marian reforms that are insanely powerful and give the Romans recruitable legions practically everywhere require some seriously baller family members.

Make sure to enable the EB script, btw.

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