The SOUTHEAST Asia Thread: Hun Sen In The Bathroom With The Golf Club. Case Closed.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The SOUTHEAST Asia Thread: Hun Sen In The Bathroom With The Golf Club. Case Closed.

«‹›2 »

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Nice OP ReindeerF.

Here's how i'd write up Vietnam: You are the little engine that could and did! The proud Vietnamese fought off successive waves of invaders such as the French cheese eaters, ugly Americans, year zero Khmer, and the foul spitting Chinese with a zerg like military that utilized Uncle Ho's powers of politics, grassroots propaganda, and dudes in pajamas, flip flops, and AKs. Historically a client kingdom of China but no more. Vietnam is now a SEA economic cowboy looking to become a major regional player simultaneously playing geopolitics and pumping up its economic development. Vietnam is also the #2 regional rice exporter and maybe will become #1 if Thailand doesn't quit shooting itself in the foot with price fixing measures. A mass of Chinese, Singaporean, and Thai investors have flocked to this new promised land to bask in corruption and dongs to be had.

french lies posted:

So Burma/Myanmar is going to end up somewhat like early nineties Russia and be the sweatshop of the world for the next few decades, essentially?

Possibly. Burma/Myanmar has serious balkanization issues with its population. I think the military dictatorship still holds all the cards in the background but they have a blueprint for success. They can just sit back and copy what everyone else has done in the region. Plus Myanmar still has significant natural gas deposits and forests to chop down I think. If the whole military dictatorship thingy didn't go down Burma should have been the #1 economy in SEA. They were a well educated population, had the best infrastructure, and were well positioned with plenty of natural resources. If they can get their poo poo together in the next couple of decades they could be a potential game changer for ASEAN.

edit: Another interesting factoid is that Myanmar has several locations which are full scale industrial sites that churn out methamphetamine in pill form (Yaba as Thais call it) and maybe heroin. I'm not sure if they lead heroin production anymore but the amount of business they do in the drug world is significant.

quote:

Also that Thai forum is amazing. I'm browsing the Marriage and Divorce section now and the cynicism and broken dreams on display are nothing short of mesmerizing.

If you want something that you can really piss your pants laughing at read the Stickman Bangkok site's letters section.

Modus Operandi fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Jun 15, 2012

# ¿ Jun 15, 2012 12:40

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 15:32

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

ReindeerF posted:

Ah poo poo, I hadn't even thought of that. One thing I did think of, though, is that this is not only going to hit Thailand's labor supply, it's going to hit a lot of profits. I've often explained the relationship to westerners as Liberia to Sierra Leone. That's not really accurate in most ways, but it conveys the nature of things. The various ethnic minorities in Burma aren't allowed to sell to anyone because of sanctions*, so they pass all the timber and gems and everything else through Thailand, which takes a cut to pretend it's Thai. Whee.

I have a feeling that more than one country isn't going to honor the upcoming starry eyed ASEAN labor agreements either. With Myanmar opening up it could end up as a perfect storm. Then again there really is somewhat of a labor shortage or inadequately trained labor for certain Thai service industries. Thai call centers, receptionists, various hotel staff could all be better served by other ASEAN nationals and in fact most of them are hired under the table already. In Koh Tao I remember a lot of the service staff were actually Burmese. Who knows what will happen though I think the Thai-Chinese overlords will do what they wish no matter what.

quote:

I never want to admit that I read that site either, but I do sometimes, heh. Also TeakDoor, which is nearly as awful as ThaiVisa, but in a different way (i.e. replace "me missus" with "here's my trip report from loving hookers in Ban Chang!").

I actually found it by accident when I originally came to Thailand to do the usual naive hippie tourist thing. I saw some really fat wretched looking dude browsing it. I was immediately intrigued by the 1990's geocities'ish web design and the colorful pictures of gaudy bar slags and the naughty districts. I absolutely had to see what this was about. It's become one of my favorite sites for comedy since. Of course I wouldn't admit I read it in person.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2012 15:12

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Norrskensren posted:

Most of my buddies are Malaysian Chinese or Indians who went to study abroad because the "racist policies" (in quotation marks because it's an actual quote, it's what they all say) prevent them from getting a decent education in Malaysia, among other things.

They aren't misrepresenting what's happening there. Malaysia has this backwards rinky dink affirmative action quota which is designed to favor the majority Malay population. It's totally ridiculous and the rationale behind it was that the minority Chinese and Indian Malay population were too well educated and competitive and that there weren't enough "native" Malays in certain positions. Malaysian politics are also highly skewed towards the islamic majority thus depriving the minority population of further representation in the public sphere.

The backlash is that there has been an increasing brain drain of Chinese and Indian Malays to countries like Singapore and to the west. This is quite significant because these are often highly educated skilled professionals.

Btw one of the common trends in SE Asia is that whenever another SE Asian country fucks up usually Singapore profits somehow.

Modus Operandi fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Jun 17, 2012

# ¿ Jun 17, 2012 04:44

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Shbobdb posted:

As an American, which companies from these new mini-dragons, these tigers, should I invest in for the short sell? The long sell?

I'm serious. People on the ground are key.

So you plan on shorting one of these companies? May I ask what your pessimism is based on.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2012 05:00

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

ReindeerF posted:

Here's what I found...(lol)
Got it - thanks!

I must object to your choice of picture for Thailand. As an old Thai expat you should know that Leo is the working man's beer. Singha is for tourists!

# ¿ Jun 17, 2012 07:59

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Norrskensren posted:

This also means that the standard of education offered by Malaysian universities is dropping, meaning that the Malays that do go there end up with a second-rate education compared to the Chinese, Indians and Malays who go abroad. Needless to say, this doesn't make them any more competitive.

The only reason this policy hasn't harmed Malaysia more is that standards of education in SE Asia are notoriously awful. It's like a race to the bottom. The only country in SE Asia with a globally ranked top notch education system is Singapore which is highly unusual for the region. I'm not even sure who is the distant second behind Singapore in SE Asia. I'd say maybe Thailand but that's a bit of a stretch too. The only reason i'd place Thailand 2nd is that they do produce decent medical professionals. The Philippines used to have good schools back in the 60-70's but they are pretty terrible now although they do produce english speakers but without the economy invigorating stuff like competitiveness in the hard sciences, global entrepreneurism, or critical thinking skills.

quote:

These policies breed resentment, obviously. Several of the Chinese and Indians talk of "lazy, stupid" Malays who just sit around the village and have babies all the time. They do have Malay friends and they appreciate them as individuals, but when they talk about Malays as a group it's like they're white Americans discussing black Americans in 1950.

This stereotype probably stems from the fact that a lot of muslim families tend to be very big. Rural Malay Muslims are like Mormons in a lot of ways. They like to have huge families that are devoutly religious living in their own enclaves.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2012 08:36

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

ReindeerF posted:

Haha. See, when I got here, Chang was the working class beer and Singha was for locals. Now Chang is the general tourist beer (looking at eviljelly here) and Leo is the working man's beer and Singha is for local expats and people who stay in five star hotels who want an "authentic" experience. Most of us prefer Tiger or Beer Lao though, right? ^__^

gently caress Heineken

What are those bottles of mystery rice whisky called you see at Tesco? I still don't know the brand name but they look like big bottles of fish sauce. I guess we could agree that's the real working man's drink.

I like San Miguel with lime because actual Corona is pang and I get nostalgic for the piss water taste from home.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2012 08:53

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

ReindeerF posted:

I don't for sure. It originally got sent to me as from Singapore, the Youtube user is in Singapore and all his other videos are about Singapore, so I just made the assumption.

The commentator definitely sounds Singaporean. I'm guessing it's a Singapore expat living in Brunei who posted that up.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2012 09:39

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Pogroms huh.

I'd actually like to hear what people on the ground think about that. I've read the story from the Chinese side, about the bad bad non-han who oppressed the hard-working greater Chinese, but there has to be more to it than that. Could anyone elaborate?

There's no reason to doubt what happened here if you read up on the Indonesian and Malaysian pogroms. I know people tend to have feelings that tend to border on animosity whenever the ethnicity "Chinese" is mentioned but these are multi-generation ethnic Chinese who have lived in SE Asia for centuries in many cases. They also consist of all classes and most people effected by the pogroms were of the lower to middle class background. They aren't recent immigrants from the mainland. In Indonesia what happened in '97 was particularly horrific and in most cases regular people were gang raped and murdered.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2012 18:07

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

ReindeerF posted:

Those are modern figures, though, and arguably that change (along with the increasingly educated populace) is why there's more common protest against the government between all ethnic groups. I'm pretty sure in the 1960s it wasn't just over 50%.

Also, that figure only mentions the people that identify as ethnically Malay and doesn't take into consideration that a lot of politics in Malaysia is actually orientated towards Islamic affiliation which is much higher than 50% of the country.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2012 18:17

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

shrike82 posted:

Yeah, are people actually trying to pretend the murder/rape-fest in 97 didn't happen?

I remember a couple years after those incidents that the Indonesian press were downplaying it as "a few hooligans" and a lot of rape victims were told to shut the gently caress up or shamed into suicide. The thing is that most NE/SE Asian countries had some sort of economic stake in Indonesia that's why no one really did anything about it. The international media peanut gallery was worthless as usual too.

Singapore made massive profits from the end of the Suharto era too. Billions from Indonesia went right into Singapore.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2012 19:06

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

The problem with movements like this is that they are ideologically unfocused and unprincipled. It's basically still a collection of angry poor people who are just manipulated by your standard goons of the uber rich. They aren't true grassroots movements any more than the tea party is. A few of them might be legit but their voices are lost in the hordes of paid shills, pro-Thaksin people, and various hanger ons. There's real anger and resentment in NE Thailand but the level of education, will, non-alcoholics, and leadership to build that into something substantial is sorely lacking. Plus any real future leadership will have to be somewhat ideologically "pure" in their intent and non corruptible by the elite which will happen roughly around the same time the undead kings rise from Ayutthaya mounted on pink winged elephants to conquer Burma.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2012 04:57

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Section 31 posted:

I noticed the Red shirts and Yellow shirts group never march in the same time or openly clash with each others. Like for example during the takeover of central Bangkok by Red shirts in 2010, the Yellow shirts didn't do counter-march or anything like that, or did I miss something?

They tend not to face off with each other probably because it'll lead to violence. The ring leaders want to keep some semblance of control without drawing universal national condemnation. I remember when the red shirt hub bub was going on the yellow and pink shirts had a counter protest at Victory monument or somewhere. The Red shirts also had their own "guards" who were supposedly armed by Thai special forces politico Seh Daeng. That whole time period was real sketchy though and there were a lot of people getting mysteriously shot by "unnamed" sources with "investigations" still "ongoing" even now. The aforementioned Seh Daeng was even assassinated in broad daylight by a "mystery" sniper while giving a NY times interview. I use quotations a lot because nothing is certain in Thai politics. It's a huge and deep quagmire of conspiracies within conspiracies.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2012 04:13

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

menino posted:

What's the general consensus about ASEAN as a bulwark against the Chinese? I just read that the Cambodians agreed to extradite the French guy, and the article made it seem like it was done soon after a deal on building a dam with Chinese investment. Is ASEAN really even viewed as an effective body against Chinese expansion in the South China Sea and Indian Ocean?

If by "bulwark" and "effective body" you mean that most ASEAN countries' corporate and government interests are actually in the pockets of the PRC. There are a few political holdouts here and there who are undergoing high profile spats but even Vietnam and the Philippines do considerable business with China. I don't see the government of the Philippines reducing business with China out of principle ever. The godfathers in charge would piss themselves laughing at that suggestion.

This situation is not going to change anytime in the near future unless some other large country can bring just as much investment and economic muscle to the region. It's highly doubtful India will make that sort of impact anytime soon or if ever in SE Asia and the U.S. economic influence is lagging lately. Many ASEAN governments still have a rather bad taste in their mouth about the IMF/World Bank bailout shenanigans headlined by the U.S. after '97.

I mean if you just look at Thailand a high profile member of the royal family regularly visits China and one of the princesses plays a traditional Chinese instrument. Laos has entire buildings and infrastructure built by Chinese investment. Cambodia has mines and factories financed by China. That says a lot right there.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2012 16:32

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Section 31 posted:

I've been to Singapore several times, and honestly (in my opinion) the local folks don't seem to care about politics since they already "enjoy a good life" provided by the government, if you know what I mean.

I've had this discussion with regular Singaporean folk before and when i've touched on various topics like the single party stuff, drug laws etc.. They are mostly pretty supportive of the direction the government takes in these issues. I expected a bit more dissent but you're right that most Singaporeans don't care as long as that middle class living standard is maintained. Your average Singaporean does work their rear end off though and business is very competitive. It's just that they carved out a niche as a major financial hub. It also doesn't hurt that the word is out that Singapore will be happy to accept dirty money from fleeing dictators and their families too.

Corporate culture there is very entrenched which has led to this sterile sort of consumerist non risk taking environment. The nerdy white collar Singaporean stereotype is for the most part true heh.

Singapore has done remarkably well though and i've met loads of Singaporean expats who have second homes (and second wives) in Thailand and other countries in the region. There's just not much to bitch about.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2012 09:50

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

ReindeerF posted:

And if you do bitch, Minister Mentor will go on a talk show and give the Marcus Aurelius speech from Gladiator, shaming you into shutting up again.

Haha yeah. I still think most middle class Singaporeans just don't want to rock the boat. They see immigrants all clamoring to get in their city-state and most of them are well traveled enough to see they have a pretty good thing going on in comparison. Singaporeans are really passive-aggressive and cynical though..but just about everything they bitch about can be summed as "first world problems..."

quote:

That said, there was considerable (and legitimate) grumbling over the recent corruption controversy that erupted.

Are you talking about the super church scandal?

# ¿ Jun 27, 2012 10:19

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Jim Bont posted:

Again, anecdotal and a massive generalization, but almost every single rude expat I have come across in Singapore was either British or Australian.

This pretty much goes for Thailand too. Brits are probably the worst when it comes to the foreign crowd. Aussies can be bad but in general they only get blindingly drunk, start fights, and piss themselves.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2012 15:00

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

ReindeerF posted:

Exporting misery since like 1066! The only reason the signal to noise for Americans is better in Asia is that none of my countrymen have passports and, of those who do, only a small percentage know where Asia is. If you ever have the misfortune to go to Cancun or something you'll get to see our version of Bali.
Pfft, it's just eminent domain! Nothing to see here!

Me Missus says the seps no good mak mak! England man jai dee.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2012 05:01

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Serous posted:

From what I know, the major issue for transportation is that Singapore is quite congested, especially during the peak times and prone to traffic jams compared to the past and that Singaporeans are worried that with the government's stated intentions to further increase the population, overcrowding would get even worse. I'm still only a student thought, so there might be issues that I missed.

Most of the complaints i've heard about transportation in Singapore is how expensive it is to get a license to own a car. In some cases the registration or licensing fees cost more than the vehicle itself. These measures were created to prevent the massive grid lock and pollution you see in other SEA countries. It seems to work for the most part but I guess a portion of the middle class isn't thrilled with being essentially taxed into submission like this.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2012 05:55

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

lemonadesweetheart posted:

Generally very good, although it depends on where you're from. If you're from an ASEAN region or China there is some racism and Indonesians are exploited here. Malaysians don't particularly like Singaporeans either but that's already been mentioned. These are gross generalisations though.

The general rule of thumb is that the people in NE/SE Asian countries generally don't like each other and view each other with suspicion and or in condescending terms when it comes to each others' culture.

There are rare exceptions like Thais and a lot of Taiwanese tend to like the Japanese and vice versa.

Poll taken in Asia regarding Asian neighbors should be phrased as "Who do you dislike the least?"

Modus Operandi fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Jun 29, 2012

# ¿ Jun 29, 2012 06:05

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

lemonadesweetheart posted:

Malaysians seem to like Japanese/Koreans quite a bit, including Malay, Chinese and Indians. I find it to be mostly rivalry from being so close to the other SEA countries and especially Singapore.

For foreigners outside of SEA, they seem to have no problem with them at all.

Familiarity breeds contempt in Asia. Non-SEA westerners and a few select NE Asian nationalities are still enough of a novelty and mostly short stay tourists that don't raise the ire of the locals. In places like China and the Philippines there's a large Korean expat population and the locals generally don't like them either.

It's historically ironic but the Japanese are probably the most well liked expats around Asia except in China, heh. It's mainly because they tend to build low-key communities for themselves that don't aggravate the locals. They are typically polite and respectful. The Japanese also dump a lot of money or invest into the local economy so there are few cultural friction points.

quote:

Racial politics here is very interesting but it's something not many will talk about whether they're from one of the minority groups or not. I find everything here is driven by self interest and the government is very good at otherizing the disparate groups against each other against their own self-interest. Coupled with the fact that the government here is a monolith that hasn't changed much since the formation of the country and you get a lot of apathy in the older generations and a lot of resentment across the board.

It's a SEA colonial remnant in many ways. The British actively fostered these divisions within various Asian colonies. They also existed as natural fractures within a society's varying cultures/religions so it can't all be blamed on the Brits but they certainly institutionalized much of it. Nations like Singapore were able to gradually overcome it but then you see Myanmar, Malaysia, etc.. where it's still very much the norm. Singapore is the only nation in SEA that has truly overcome and integrated in its culturally and religiously diverse population. It has its friction points too but they are minor in comparison with the rest of SEA.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2012 07:01

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Longanimitas posted:

You'll be happy to learn that excessive taxes and fees on cars (usually costing more than the car itself) are also the norm in Vietnam.

The funny thing about these taxes and fees in countries not named Singapore is that the wealthy tend to be able to dodge this tax whenever they want through illegal importation and other connections. Usually it becomes a tax on the middle class who can barely scrape up enough money as it is to purchase a vehicle.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2012 16:37

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

quote:

For the first time, Thailand also raised the issue of a visa waiver to facilitate the visits of Thai tourists and visitors to the US. A long queue in front of the US consular office on the Wireless Road continues to be an eyesore of their longstanding relations. Russia is the first and only major power to waive visas for Thai passport holders.

I really really doubt Thailand will ever get a visa waiver. It would be crazy to do so. The economic gulf between the two countries, the corruption, and the "other" black industry that happens in Thailand ensures that something like that will never be done. Even a visa waiver between Taiwan and the U.S. took decades to negotiate and Taiwan has far less corruption, a high gdp per capita, and is considered developed.

Making Cambodia a proxy seems like a smart geopolitical decision. Hun Sen will do just about anything as long as you give him enough money. I bet he will even juggle balls and balance sardines on his nose if you pay him enough. He's completely unscrupulous and all about bling bling. He would make the perfect U.S. ally in the region. You could build whatever base you want, station whatever, do whatever. Plus Cambodia kind of has this defacto historical "relationship" with Vietnam and by cozying up to the U.S. they can finally shake off Vietnam's influence and also stick a big thumb into Thailand's eye over the ugly temple business.

Modus Operandi fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Jul 2, 2012

# ¿ Jul 2, 2012 14:03

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

ReindeerF posted:

I forgot who I heard or read saying it, but the quote was something like, "China's undertaking a vast program of power projection into key regions via its economic muscle while America is using its international political muscle." Obama's administration (brilliantly, if you support American primacy) pivoted to their Asia strategy publicly in the last year and they're reportedly about to announce an Africa strategy. What two regions of the world is China trying to project power into and quietly gain influence over?

Here's the problem with using political and military pressure to influence these countries. It can backfire horribly and it's one of the ways that the U.S. burned so many bridges in Asia, Latin America, and Africa to begin with. America's influence isn't what it used to be in Asia either. Even though Thai politics are partially to blame I don't think they would have dragged their feet over the NASA deal a decade ago. It also took them a long time to cough up Victor Bout and it looked like they were going to hand him over to Russia a few times there. Abhisit probably saw more value in the U.S. relationship but it took a personal call from Obama to make it happen.

I think the greatest beneficiaries of China and U.S. maneuvering are the small countries who can play both sides if they are smart. I see SEA nations doing this a lot but the U.S. isn't always willing to honor its agreements either and based on the '97 crisis most SEA nations know that the U.S. won't economically back anyone unless it's signed on the devil's (IMF) contract with your blood. So that means U.S. political influence might be a paper tiger or have very short term diplomatic implications unless there is something more substantial there to tie them to the U.S. Fear of China simply isn't convincing enough especially when they are throwing around cash and prizes everywhere. A lot of SEA nations may act like this is the reason why they are cozying up with the U.S. too but I think it's all the potential military hardware that can pulled from that relationship.

Modus Operandi fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Jul 3, 2012

# ¿ Jul 3, 2012 03:36

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

ReindeerF posted:

I've got Taiwanese friends and HK friends and they go on about how the mainlanders act as well.

It's kind of sad really because Mainland Chinese culture really hit a low sometime during the turn of the century from 19th-20th and just totally degenerated into what it is now after the cultural revolution. In Taiwan they at least revitalized a lot of the old interpersonal respect and people tend to act and behave civilly towards each other unless it's parliament or something. You should read Bo Yang's The Ugly Chinaman if you haven't he really rips into facets of Chinese culture and cultural chauvinism that's been a long standing thorn in the side of progressives.

I went with my father on a trip to China a couple years ago and he talked non stop poo poo about how ghetto the mainland Chinese behaved. "Ai Yah! look at that fucker spitting his goo in the restaurant!" Now, this is someone who is old enough to remember pre-revolution China in all its "glory."

# ¿ Jul 3, 2012 13:21

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Singapore's military really is quite strong on paper plus they have a reserve of Gurkha commandos who are not anything to be mocked and a pretty nasty assortment of military hardware. This includes Apaches, aegis destroyers, and I wouldn't be totally surprised if Singapore has a secret nuke or two hidden under a mattress somewhere like Israel because you know.. just in case. The country itself is vitally important to U.S. interests in the region. Probably right up there with Taiwan in strategic importance.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2012 07:02

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Now sit back and try to imagine what Singapore would look like run by Malaysia. The sovereign wealth fund would be looted clean by the elite Malay families overnight. Infrastructure crumbles within a decade and ethnic tensions flare up. That might actually push Malaysia and Indonesia to actual war because Singapore controls a huge amount of Indonesia's former and current dictator wealth. That's a wild scenario though.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2012 13:17

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Positive Optimyst posted:

Do you or did you, ever go over to Ajarn?

Second to thaivisa in sheer awfulness, according to the teachers I know.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2012 10:17

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

With english teachers you tend to meet them at downmarket places like um Khao San or clubs around RCA. A lot of young thais from abroad with fluent english moonlight as english teachers too. So if you know a couple you end up knowing a lot of them because they all hang out together. Most are alright but it's the mostly likely group for you to encounter bonafide kiddie fiddles and other strange degenerates.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2012 03:23

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

http://news.yahoo.com/us-man-jailed-translating-thai-king-book-freed-014336581.html

quote:

BANGKOK (AP) � An American sentenced to two and a half years in Thai prison for translating a banned biography about the country's king and posting the content online has been freed by a royal pardon, the U.S. Embassy said Wednesday.

Joe Gordon was convicted in December for translating excerpts of the book [See the article] from English into Thai. The punishment was a high-profile example of the severe sentences meted out here for defaming Thailand's royal family, an issue that has raised concern about freedom of expression in this Southeast Asian kingdom.

No reason was given for the pardon, but U.S. officials have pressed Thai authorities to release the Thai-born American since he was first detained in May 2011. Gordon was freed from Bangkok's Remand prison late Tuesday, U.S. Embassy spokesman Walter Braunohler said.

.....

The nation's 2007 Computer Crimes Act also contains provisions that have enabled prosecutors to increase lese majeste sentences.

Business as usual in Thailand. Heh. There have been many high profile incidents like this where some Thai or foreigner or other gets thrown in the slammer or made an example of (briefly) and then gets their sentence dismissed soon afterward. I'm not going to say for certain what I feel about these events but they seem to be showcased in a certain way to raise the media profile of certain individuals. If what the perpetrator allegedly did was not really a big deal to various person(s) who have certain authority to do something about it they could have prevented certain individual(s) from going to prison to begin with.

This case was particularly interesting because he was Thai-American and wasn't even on Thai soil when he allegedly said/did certain things. The ever vigilant and morally just cyber division of the Thai bureaucracy snooped him out from Thailand, demanded his name/ip info from the overseas ISP, and decided to put him on the immigration blacklist to spring a trap on him when he visited.

Modus Operandi fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Jul 11, 2012

# ¿ Jul 11, 2012 04:55

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

ReindeerF posted:

Yeah, if he'd been an American citizen with no legal ties to Thailand I would've guessed what to expect, but his status did make this a big question mark. I'm glad to hear that he was granted a pardon - and good on the US diplomatic corps for staying on top of this one. I'll have to amend my sentiment to say, "The US embassy is only 99.9% useless to most American citizens living in Thailand who need anything other than a new passport or notarized documents." heh.

I hope he's able to sue that ISP for privacy violation and other damages in civil court because there's no way they should have been able to hand over a U.S. citizens' information like that to a foreign government entity no less. I bet that's why the U.S. embassy cared a bit more about this because it showed a degree of weakness there in homeland security or whatever. You can't have the terrists disguised as government officials snooping U.S. citizens now can you?! Who knows though that's just paranoid speculation on my part.

quote:

The most entertaining (to me, anyway) of the pardon cases since I've been here was the (I think) Scandinavian guy who lost the plot and ran around Chiang Mai or somewhere defacing photographs or you-know-who until they arrested him. The guy had clearly lost his mind and they kind of quietly shuffled him out of the country. On the note of mental illness it wasn't funny, but just the image of that guy running around Thailand with a can of spray paint and doing that was noteworthy.

I remember that and I think that guy was a Swiss national which made it all the more amusing.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2012 05:11

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

quote:

He promptly returned after realising he had left without giving the Khmer-language version of the briefing.

Haha, the height of professionalism here folks.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2012 11:02

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

I found this article on the internet talking about Aung San Suu Kyi's "official" position on the Rohingya and it's rather depressing. To be honest i've lost a lot of respect for her after reading this.

http://www.newcivilisation.com/home/international-affairs/betrayed-aung-san-suu-kyi-and-the-persecuted-rohingya-of-burma

An excerpt:

quote:

Furthermore, the law can only be effective and seen to be important when all the people concerned are recognised by the Law and the state in the first instance. While in Ireland, Suu Kyi said she did not know whether Rohingyas should be regarded as Burmese or not, a rather sinister statement for someone being treated by the governments of the world as the official head of state. Despite her fearsome reputation for standing up for human rights, Suu Kyi�s position has to remain silent about the persecution of the Rohingya and where put on the spot, she has failed to defend them and by questioning their right to citizenship, essentially legitimised this persecution. That is because many of those who are most vocal in wanting to expel them from Burmese territory are part of the country�s pro-democracy movement. If Suu Kyi speaks out in favour of the Rohingya�s claim to Burmese citizenship, she risks alienating some of her most erstwhile allies. Nyan Win, spokesman for the National League for Democracy party to which Suu Kyi belongs, would not comment on Suu Kyi�s position, but said: �The Rohingya are not our citizens.�

So basically she's pretty selectively activist and only when it suits a very broad agenda. She has enough influence that she could alienate her Burmese party and still be held in high esteem by the international community. It seems like she's not willing to even risk that which makes me really wonder what she's about.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2012 10:56

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

^^
Yes,..the iconography and historical narrative is starting to be revised to fit the new man who is going to be in charge. I don't think it's going to be quite as successful though especially with various clips of interesting coming of age celebratory parties on the internet and widespread eyewitness accounts of other stuff behind the scenes. I think Thai people will accept it but I don't think anyone is going to be fully buy in just yet.

# ¿ Jul 23, 2012 05:36

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Munin posted:

At what point does the official legal protection of his person come into play for the son?

Is it in theory retroactive and would people get into trouble for statements made and content shared in the past?

That whole group is under all sorts of exceptional legal allowances. People can definitely get in trouble even now. It starts from birth or in very special circumstances like if one marries a foreigner they can have official titles changed.

Let's just say the law can or can't apply based on what they want on a whim.

# ¿ Jul 23, 2012 16:20

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Munin posted:

Kk, I was curious since the post earlier seemed to imply that the videos of him had found pretty wide circulation and I would have thought that discussion and distribution of them would be faced with pretty severe sanctions considering the law in question.

Within Thailand stuff like that is usually viewed secretly with proxies and snickered at behind closed doors.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2012 03:04

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Tytan posted:

So apparently Anonymous just hacked a Cambodian government site in retaliation to Gottfrid Svartholm being deported, and released over 5,000 documents.

I'm looking forward to Hun Sen's comments on this one.

Releasing corruption documents that prove Hun Sen is corrupt is like saying water is wet. It will have no effect on the public's broader views of him.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2012 04:28

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

It sounds like the Philippines "cyber crimes" unit needs to learn from the Thais and put the person on an immigration/id watchlist. So next time their name comes up on the computer they can surprise detain the person and beat them in a dark cell somewhere before putting them in front of a kangaroo court with trumped up charges.

edit: Unfortunately, it's also not surprising to find out that the U.S. state dept helps countries like this oppress their own people with state of the art training.

Modus Operandi fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Oct 1, 2012

# ¿ Oct 1, 2012 15:48

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

Section 31 posted:

Is Malaysia really responsible and to be blamed for the armed movements in southern Philippines? That sounds like a wild and paranoid conspiracy theory...

I recently read a book called Looming Tower and there were a surprising number of prominent terrorism cells with direct AQ links in Malaysia. It was even a country that 9/11 terrorist hijackers chose to have a meeting at with a Malaysian host to hash out their plans. I don't know how it is now but I have a feeling that Malaysia might be a little bit like Pakistan where authorities ignore certain "elements" because they are part of the intelligence and government infrastructure there.

Malaysia is also regularly blamed by Thais for harboring extremists who incite unrest in southern Thailand. Though that could just be the usual Thais blaming neighboring countries for everything though.

Modus Operandi fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Oct 24, 2012

# ¿ Oct 24, 2012 04:04

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 15:32

Modus Operandi: Oct 5, 2010

One thing i've noticed, and this is worldwide, is that the more corrupt the bureaucracy the more they love redundant paperwork. Thai people love shuffling paperwork and making stacks of photocopies that are stuffed away in some gigantic filing cabinet or left to pile up on a desk. It seems the same stuff goes on in the Philippines and probably to an even worse degree. The funny thing is that if any legal accountability is called for which involves paperwork none of it is actually legit. It's all quick forgeries, phony signatures, etc.. or up top it won't matter at all since the judges in whatever case are all paid off or biased in some way.

I have talked with some office people there who tried to convince their bosses to switch to IT solutions but the bald grey hairs on top are completely inflexible.

# ¿ Dec 29, 2012 17:13

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The SOUTHEAST Asia Thread: Hun Sen In The Bathroom With The Golf Club. Case Closed.

«‹›2 »