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bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Jose Oquendo posted:

It was mentioned above . Apple TV. It has every app and everything works with no loving around with it.

Not true. Apple TV didn't have 4k youtube for the longest time because they refused to support the VP9 codec.

Apple TV still doesn't have 5.1 sound in Hulu.

Until yesterday, Apple TV would play the wrong frame rate for Netflix originals.

There's no compromise free device. They all have one issue or another and if you want the best experience across all services, you need multiple devices.

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Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003





Photex posted:

Let's not pretend that this isn't going to be a thing on every platform, if I remember correctly Apple dragged their feet in signing a deal to carry Disney+ and it wasn't announced till the day before launch.
You remember wrong. When they announced D+ November 2018, they only announced supporting Roku and PS4, probably because Roku and Sony paid for the privilege of getting mentioned. In August 2019, they announced AppleTV, iOS, Android, Android TV, and XBox One. It didn't launch until November. So yeah, they spent nine months not mentioning any other platforms, but they certainly announced them with plenty of time before launch.

Jose Oquendo
Jun 20, 2004

At the end of 2018, a study was published by London Metropolitan University showing that certain bacteria, normally present only in intestinal tracts or feces, were found on McDonald's self-service screens.




bull3964 posted:

Not true. Apple TV didn't have 4k youtube for the longest time because they refused to support the VP9 codec.

Apple TV still doesn't have 5.1 sound in Hulu.

Until yesterday, Apple TV would play the wrong frame rate for Netflix originals.

There's no compromise free device. They all have one issue or another and if you want the best experience across all services, you need multiple devices.

What is not true in what I said? ATV basically has every app and they work. Some might be missing certain features but that's different than an app not being available which is what the poster was talking about. By and large, that's the ATV.

Photex posted:

Let's not pretend that this isn't going to be a thing on every platform, if I remember correctly Apple dragged their feet in signing a deal to carry Disney+ and it wasn't announced till the day before launch.

That didn't happen, at least not in the US.

nate fisher
Mar 3, 2004

We've Got To Go Back


In my experience of streaming devices AppleTV is by the best when it comes to these issues, but it is not perfect (see Prime Video app and YouTube 4K).

Edit: Took out the part about preferring TV built in apps now (at least the LG ones), because it really doesn't add anything to the conversation.

nate fisher fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Apr 27, 2021

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Jose Oquendo posted:

What is not true in what I said? ATV basically has every app and they work. Some might be missing certain features but that's different than an app not being available which is what the poster was talking about. By and large, that's the ATV.


That didn't happen, at least not in the US.

You said with no loving around. That implies the best experience across all services when two of the three largest streaming services were compromised in some way. That's really hard to swallow when the thing costs 5x devices that don't have those issues (but in turn, have other issues.)

But otherwise, the politics are still there. HBO can't be subscribed through Channels anymore since HBO didn't want to give Apple a cut of sub revenue nor let Apple scrape viewing data for use. It's really the same dispute that HBO had with Roku, Apple just relented sooner.

Youtube 4k is the same dispute Google us having with Roku right now, support of a new codec.

As the AppleTV+ library grows and they feel they have more influence in the market, expect these sort of issues to increase on the platform.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006



Spectrum ships out AppleTVs as their official set top box for their cable service so if youíre looking for maximum compatibility with their service then thatís the one.

But wait until the end of next month when they new box ships.

Minidust
Nov 4, 2009

Hello chiicagooo!

Oh, wait, is that a GameStop employee in the back? Hey, you, give me a refund. No, I don't care if it was my fault, just - look, am I the one with the microphone or not? REFUND, biyotch!

You definitely get what you pay for with Apple TV imo. Though tbh I'll run into the occasional app that performs better on the Roku Ultra downstairs. Philo TV sometimes feels like it was slapped onto the Apple TV with very little thought, while the Roku version seems, I dunno, more colorful in the UI and less janky. I also appreciate the Android TV "channel" interface that I can customize to feature content that I actually have access to, rather than Apple's "TV" app teasing this functionality but ultimately pushing paid/subscription stuff that I don't want.

So it's never gonna be a thing where you can just throw money at the "best" device and get the best experience across the board (but ATV comes close!).

Minidust fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Apr 27, 2021

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



No device is quirk or issue free. Shield is the gold standard for many but youíll run in to random rear end quirks that take forever to fix (Hulu) or find that some apps just arenít there because itís some Android TV device and who the gently caress uses those I only employ 2 programmers for the app they donít have time to chase these niche devices

poo poo, I think Shield TV had some color switching bug that took forever to fix and made HDR a pain to use despite it being a selling point of the device because Google.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




It's honestly amazing the shield works as good as it does (which is pretty close to flawless) considering it's still using the Nvidia X1 that was announced over 6 years ago. The AI upscaling makes it my go-to device for 1080p content.

I have a 2019 ShieldTV, Roku Streaming Stick Plus, and Google TV on my main OLED.

The shield does the heavy lifting on most content due to better DV and Atmos compatibility vs the Google TV. Roku fills in any app gaps that the Android TV devices have, but that's getting rarer.

The Google TV I use for Youtube TV mostly for two reasons.

1) The integrated guide is awesome.
2) It is the only streaming device that I've seen that supports 1080i60 output.

That second point may seem odd, but it's specific to my 2016 OLED. Its ability to extract native 24fps cadence from a 60hz source is limited to 1080i60. So, if I use 1080p60 or 4kp60, I get 3:2 judder. If I set the device to 4k24, youtube tv is all wonky because the streams are 1080p60 even if the underlying material is 24fps. So, 1080i60 output doesn't affect quality at all, but my TV recognizes the 24fps cadence in the signal and displays it natively giving me the best motion.

I'm interested in the new apple tv just from a covering all bases perspective. Google TV supports 5.1 and DV for AppleTV+, but that means I have to be switching modes back and forth to watch YouTube TV in-between ATV+ shows, so I'm tempted to pick up the ATV just for convenience there.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



WhyteRyce posted:

Shield is the gold standard for many but youíll run in to random rear end quirks that take forever to fix (Hulu) or find that some apps just arenít there because itís some Android TV device and who the gently caress uses those I only employ 2 programmers for the app they donít have time to chase these niche devices

The main problem with the Shield is it has a rabid fanbase that recommend it blindly to everyone, and then when those people spend $200 on a device and start having problems, the answers are usually "oh you must have a faulty unit" or just walking away. From what I've seen in a bunch of forums, it has a whole ton of bugs that never seem to get fixed and they're just glossed over.

bull3964 posted:

The AI upscaling makes it my go-to device for 1080p content.

I hear this a lot, but every example anyone has every shown just makes it look like an ugly oversharpen filter.

Inept
Jul 8, 2003

3 olives has a payment plan with his phone company for his cell phone

Minidust posted:

Philo TV sometimes feels like it was slapped onto the Apple TV with very little thought, while the Roku version seems, I dunno, more colorful in the UI and less janky.

IIRC Philo used to only have support for Roku and PCs back when they advertised themselves as a solution for residence halls in universities, so I'm not surprised they slapped some apps together without much planning once they wanted to expand their userbase.

Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE


Apple TV is the best thing.

Thx.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




Apple TV is the best and I recommend it to everyone.

TheScott2K
Oct 26, 2003

I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

IMO "best" is a tie between AppleTV and ShieldTV that comes down to "whose ecosystem are you more deeply in?"

FCKGW
May 21, 2006



Amazing that Apple can make the best set-top box in the world while simultaneously making the worst remote ever inflicted to mankind.

(new remote is an improvement but my God is the current one bad)

TheScott2K
Oct 26, 2003

I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

FCKGW posted:

Amazing that Apple can make the best set-top box in the world while simultaneously making the worst remote ever inflicted to mankind.

(new remote is an improvement but my God is the current one bad)

That is true. My parents visited last weekend and my mom went off on a rant holding our ShieldTV's toblerone about how much she hates the touchpad on the AppleTV

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010


Nitr0 posted:

Apple TV is the best thing.

Thx.

What makes it good? I have an LG TV that seems to have all the streaming service apps including an AppleTV/Airplay 2 app and the remote is good. What's the extra benefit? Local storage? Does it have DVR features?

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




The WebOS apps are legit good, there can be some limitations if you have older stuff without eARC (no DD+ audio so no Atmos). Also the app catalog isn't as deep.

If I didn't want Atmos on Netflix and Vudu, I would probably still be using the apps on my C6 most of the time.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




AppleTVs donít have ads at all, which is huge for me.

Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003





jokes posted:

AppleTVs donít have ads at all, which is huge for me.

As long as you don't open the TV app.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




I mean to say, the only ads are inside the apps and theyíre unique to those apps. So the problem isnít a BIG rear end BANNER from LG telling you to get a FREE HBO WEEK or whatever, but rather a ďwatch Mortal KombatĒ at the top of the HBO app. Which, if anything, is the most innocuous version of an ad I can fathom.

nate fisher
Mar 3, 2004

We've Got To Go Back


Murgos posted:

What makes it good? I have an LG TV that seems to have all the streaming service apps including an AppleTV/Airplay 2 app and the remote is good. What's the extra benefit? Local storage? Does it have DVR features?

I have owned every AppleTV and last year I had 3 AppleTVs on 3 different TVs. That said I upgraded my main TV to a LG OLED, and now I don't even have an AppleTV hooked to my living room TV (first time in like 13 years). The WebOS + a superior remote (I got the Wii mote movement down to a science) + better picture calibration on it's native apps. Of course the other thing is in the inclusion of the AppleTV app which brings my library and subs over. My only complaint is it is missing a few apps (mainly for me is HBO Max and Discovery+), but I have a PS5 that runs those apps. So I agree with you if you have a good TV OS.

The new AppleTV will be the first one I don't plan to purchase, but that could change in the future. My Panasonic Plasma finally died (office TV) and I got one of those TCL Roku TVs. Not a bad TV for the price and I tried to use the Roku built in OS for a day, but by the time night came around I had one of my AppleTVs hooked to it and I have never went back.

nate fisher fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Apr 28, 2021

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010


nate fisher posted:

I have owned every AppleTV and last year I had 3 AppleTVs on 3 different TVs. That said I upgraded my main TV to a LG OLED, and now I don't even have an AppleTV hooked to my living room TV (first time in like 13 years). The WebOS + a superior remote (I got the Wii mote movement down to a science) + better picture calibration on it's native apps. Of course the other thing is in the inclusion of the AppleTV app which brings my library and subs over. My only complaint is it is missing a few apps (mainly for me is HBO Max and Discovery+), but I have a PS5 that runs those apps. So I agree with you if you have a good TV OS.

The new AppleTV will be the first one I don't plan to purchase, but that could change in the future. My Panasonic Plasma finally died (office TV) and I got one of those TCL Roku TVs. Not a bad TV for the price and I tried to use the Roku built in OS for a day, but by the time night came around I had one of my AppleTVs hooked to it and I have never went back.

Thanks for this. We cut cable about 6 months ago and have just been using the LG WebOS stuff so I wasn't sure if there was maybe some way better stuff I was missing.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



So in Shield TV app oddity discussion, the Discovery+ app will sometimes have a static loading wheel picture stuck on my screen coming out of a commercial until I bring up the playback GUI

Very distracting when I'm trying to watch Pig Royalty

WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Apr 28, 2021

phosdex
Dec 16, 2005




I have some basic LG TV and maybe it's just me, but I straight up block it from getting to the internet. I let it connect when I first set it up to see if there was a firmware update and it downloaded ads to stick into the input selection area. It hasn't been connected to my network since. I'm fine with my Apple TV.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



To me Smart TV apps are like a fresh bottle of milk. Actually really nice when you first get it but the experience will sour quicker than youíd like unless you buy new ones at a ridiculous rate

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010


phosdex posted:

I have some basic LG TV and maybe it's just me, but I straight up block it from getting to the internet. I let it connect when I first set it up to see if there was a firmware update and it downloaded ads to stick into the input selection area. It hasn't been connected to my network since. I'm fine with my Apple TV.

My LG has setting to disable all the phone home stuff. It gives you dire warnings about losing access to features if you do that but if you read it the features are serving you tailored ads and recommendations. So, uh, I had no problem turning it off. The only place I see adds are on the content store and I essentially never go to the content store.

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002


Jade Ear Joe

Next step in the Roku/Google YTTV saga. They are letting their contract expire. If you already have the app, you can still use it but don't delete it b/c you won't be able to add it back.

Some interesting details on the dispute:

https://variety.com/2021/digital/news/roku-youtube-tv-removed-1234963849/

quote:

Roku alleges that Google is seeking anticompetitive terms. According to Roku, Google is demanding that if a Roku user has the regular YouTube app open, the platform cannot display search results from third-party services like Netflix, Disney Plus or HBO Max. (The regular YouTube app remains available on Roku and is not affected by the current dispute.) Google also is asking for special access to Roku user data and wants the ability to dictate hardware requirements to Roku in the future for running its apps, Roku alleged.

How does that even work on a Roku? If you have an App open, it's the dominant app. There is no searching other stuff. So if I have the reg YouTube app open, how would the Roku even be *able* to show search results from third party services?

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




BonoMan posted:


How does that even work on a Roku? If you have an App open, it's the dominant app. There is no searching other stuff. So if I have the reg YouTube app open, how would the Roku even be *able* to show search results from third party services?

Voice Search.

If you use the voice remote and search for something, it will pull you out of the app.

For example, if I do a voice search while YoutubeTV is running for "The Daily Show", Roku takes me to their search results where the only result is on Paramount+.

The voice search on Roku overrides everything else and brings you to their global search library which does not search WITHIN services like youtube.

So, if I'm in the youtube app and hit the voice search on my remote because it's convenient to do and say "cat videos" , it's takes me to a page where I can rent "Ace Ventura: When Nature Calls" for $3 from Roku's service of choice rather than showing cat videos on Youtube.

The "dictate hardware requirements" is Google saying "hey, we're moving to AV1 in the future and we want any future devices to support AV1". Roku likes reselling the same toaster as a different new and unique model every year, so they are annoyed that google wants them to put a modern SoC in there. Keep in mind that up until this year, a Roku had all the processing power of an Android Wear smartwatch.

bull3964 fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Apr 30, 2021

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002


Jade Ear Joe

bull3964 posted:

Voice Search.

If you use the voice remote and search for something, it will pull you out of the app.

For example, if I do a voice search while YoutubeTV is running for "The Daily Show", Roku takes me to their search results where the only result is on Paramount+.

The voice search on Roku overrides everything else and brings you to their global search library which does not search WITHIN services like youtube.

So, if I'm in the youtube app and hit the voice search on my remote because it's convenient to do and say "cat videos" , it's takes me to a page where I can rent "Ace Ventura: When Nature Calls" for $3 from Roku's service of choice rather than showing cat videos on Youtube.



Yeah so, I know this... but maybe I'm just having a hard time understanding.

Is Google trying to say that, if you activate Voice Search within YouTube that it either:

a.) has to only search within YouTube since it's open or

b.) still kicks you out to the RokuOS but only Google app related searches show up?

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002


Jade Ear Joe

Lol now I'm getting emails from YouTubeTV - it's like a classic custody battle/divorce poo poo. Roku says they're going to continue to offer the app unless Google decides to 100% de-list. Google says they will continue to let you use the app unless Roku decides to de-list.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




They want choice a.

Assuming that Roku is being honest about what the make or break items are for the negotiation.

I suspect the main sticking point is AV1 and the rest is mostly negotiable. Google already required any new Android TV implementation to have hardware support for AV1, so that seems to be a pretty high priority for them.

bull3964 fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Apr 30, 2021

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002


Jade Ear Joe

bull3964 posted:

They want choice a.

Assuming that Roku is being honest about what the make or break items are for the negotiation.

I suspect the main sticking point is AV1 and the rest is mostly negotiable.. Google already required any new Android TV implementation to have hardware support for AV1, so that seems to be a pretty high priority for them.

To be honest I'd love to have the option to enable something like Choice A. Like, on a per app basis toggle where voice search actually searches. That'd be nice just as a feature overall. Then Google can just negotiate being able to have "search in App" to be on by default.

There, problem loving solved.

I know you said the main point is AV1 and not the search

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Roku doesn't want that though because they want to drive searches to services that they get a cut of.

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002


Jade Ear Joe

bull3964 posted:

Roku doesn't want that though because they want to drive searches to services that they get a cut of.

I know I get that. And certainly when you voice search within the RokuOS it'd obviously do that. But I'm just fantasizing that it's a useful feature regardless of capitalism. Voice search *should* have the option of working within the app you have open.

Or poo poo in true capitalism, make companies pay to have that enabled within their app.

TheScott2K
Oct 26, 2003

I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

It's kinda funny how everyone knows what a super usable UI that aggregates the content available on all your streaming services would look like, but it'll just never happen because the content owners specifically don't want that.

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002


Jade Ear Joe

TheScott2K posted:

It's kinda funny how everyone knows what a super usable UI that aggregates the content available on all your streaming services would look like, but it'll just never happen because the content owners specifically don't want that.

Yeah - it's a little socialism/capitalism microcosm.

Reminds me of project management software. Every dipshit company is so sure they can come up with some clever way of redefining project management that they keep missing the mark. There's just some invisible universal force preventing a company from aggregating all the best features into one.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



Google deciding to go nuclear and added a portal to YTTV in the Roku VT app, so basically Roku can gently caress right off or gamble that people prefer their streaming UI over having access to YT

Also Google said they are working on providing free streaming boxes if the Roku negotiations fall apart so Roku probably bit off more than it could chew

FunOne
Aug 20, 2000
I am a slimey vat of concentrated stupidity



Fun Shoe

Now I need YTTV to negotiate this hard with regional sports networks. I want my hockey back.

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WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



It's probably different with Roku. Roku basically is entirely dependent on streaming services for their business model and YT is the most popular, dominate streaming service. And Google has it's own streaming device products and solutions. Google has way more weight they can throw at Roku in this situation than they can throw at RSNs

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