Scots Wha Hae - Scotland's Independence Referendum

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Scots Wha Hae - Scotland's Independence Referendum

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

TheVertigoOfBliss posted:

The issue of 'punching above our weight on the world stage' seems to me to entirely revolve around how effectively we can wage war on foreign soils. By any other measure im pretty certain scotland as an independent country would indeed punch above its weight.

Add this poem to the OP; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-znkbMzi4A.

Coincidentally: Why would we as a nation be waging war on foreign soils if we left the union?

# ¿ Jun 16, 2012 02:42

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 4, 2024 23:56

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

PiCroft posted:

The wind turbine that exploded during Hurricane Bawbag was visible from my bedroom window, but I was in Dundee at the time.

god I miss home sometimes. The only place on earth that a hurricane would be named after a ballsack. (I realise that's likely not what it was called but it's amusing. )

# ¿ Jun 20, 2012 08:58

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

Anyone got any idea if expat scots who retained their citizenship get a vote or not?

# ¿ Oct 11, 2012 07:14

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/07/cameron-scots-stay-brilliant-country-brand-britain

quote:

The United Kingdom has only seven months to "save the most extraordinary, buccaneering, brilliant country in history", David Cameron warned on Friday in a passionate and personal plea to stop Scotland from breaking away.

The prime minister said he was making his intervention because he wanted Scots to realise that people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland were not looking the other way or walking on by as it made its fateful decision.

"It's so important for Scotland to realise that the rest of the family see this as a very important family decision," he told an audience at the velodrome in London's Olympic Park.

The speech was designed to persuade wavering Scots that the rest of the UK desperately wants them to remain in the union, and regards their contribution as integral to "Brand Britain". The prime minister was also reminding his sometimes indifferent Conservative party that they are a unionist party.

The Scottish National party said the speech was a sign that Downing Street was starting to panic in the face of polls showing a slow rise in support for independence. Nicola Sturgeon, the deputy first minister, said the speech reaching out to Scots was a sign that No 10 had realised that trying to frighten them was not working.

The SNP is convinced that Cameron will be finished if the Scots vote yes.

In his speech, Cameron said everyone in the UK had a voice in this year's historic referendum, and urged people across the country to "pick up the phone" to friends and family in Scotland to urge them to vote against independence in September.

After setting out the moral, economic, geopolitical and diplomatic arguments against Scottish independence, Cameron said there was "an emotional, patriotic case" that traditionally reticent Brits, fearful of waving the flag, had been too reluctant to make.

Alex Salmond, the Scottish first minister, accused him of being part of an "out-of-touch Westminster elite" and insisted an independent Scotland would maintain close ties with the rest of the UK.

The SNP leader said: "This speech was a threadbare defence of the case for Westminster Tories retaining their undemocratic control over Scotland, which betrays the utter weakness of the prime minister's case.

"David Cameron said he will 'fight with all he has' against Scotland's independence � but that doesn't extend to having a head-to-head debate on the subject.

"If David Cameron is still not prepared to do that but continues to deliver lectures from London, people will draw their own conclusions from that."

Cameron is aware that he is not the most persuasive voice in Scotland, but believes he cannot avoid the debate.

He said: "Some people have advised me to stay out of this issue � and not to get too sentimental about the UK," but added: "I care far too much to stay out of it."

Cameron drew on his Scottish blood, saying that while the Scottish root of his name meant "crooked nose", the Cameron clan motto was "let us unite".

He said he would be making further speeches in Scotland and taking the cabinet to Scotland, and wanted to set out his belief that the UK family would be diminished if the Scots took the irreversible decision to leave.

Trying to revive the patriotic spirit of the Olympics, he said: "Sometimes we can forget just how big our reputation is, that the world over the letters 'UK' stand for unique, brilliant, creative, eccentric, ingenious. We come as a brand � a powerful brand. Separating Scotland out of that brand would be like separating the waters of the river Tweed and the North Sea. If we lost Scotland, if the UK changed, we would rip the rug from under our own reputation. The plain fact is we matter more in the world together.

"Our reach is about much more than military might � it's about our music, film, TV, fashion. The UK is the soft power superpower: you get teenagers in Tokyo and Sydney listening to Emeli Sand�; people in Kazakhstan and Taiwan watching BBC exports like Sherlock, written by a Scot a hundred years ago, played by an Englishman today, and created for TV by a Scotsman."

And he said he wanted his daughter to be able to read his favourite childhood book � HE Marshall's Our Island Story: A History of Britain for Boys and Girls from the Romans to Queen Victoria � which tells the "great, world-beating story" of the UK.

He said: "I passionately hope that my children will be able to teach their children the same � that the stamp on their passport is a mark of pride. That together, these islands really do stand for something more than the sum of our parts.

"This is our home � and I could not bear to see that home torn apart. I love this country. I love the United Kingdom and all it stands for and I will fight with all I have to keep us together."

In a warning to people who have so far given the referendum debate little attention, he said: "Centuries of history hang in the balance; a question mark hangs over the future of our United Kingdom.

"If people vote yes in September, then Scotland will become an independent country. There will be no going back."

Cameron said for him the best thing about the Olympics "wasn't the winning; it was the red, the white, the blue. It was the summer that patriotism came out of the shadows and into the sun. Everyone cheering as one for Team GB."

He ended his speech with a plea to everyone in the UK to urge Scotland to stay: "I want to be clear to everyone listening. There can be no complacency about the result of this referendum. The outcome is still up in the air and we have just seven months to go. Seven months to do all we can to keep our United Kingdom as one. Seven months to save the most extraordinary country in history.

"You do have an influence. Get on the phone, get together, email, tweet, speak. Let the message ring out from Manchester to Motherwell, from Pembrokeshire to Perth, from Belfast to Bute, from us to the people of Scotland � let the message be this: we want you to stay."

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ¿ Feb 8, 2014 23:17

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

Jedit posted:

Frankie Boyle is a repulsive shrivel-souled turd of a man whose opinion should be used as a benchmark of what not to believe in. I'd even go so far as to say he's worse than Cameron.

e: nvm, cbf.

tithin fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Feb 9, 2014

# ¿ Feb 9, 2014 03:40

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

ThomasPaine posted:

Well, it was a fair point. It's just yet more ad hominem poo poo. For all the shits he does not give, Boyle actually has some decent points.

You're right, it was a fair point, but I cbf engaging with Jedit. He has his point of view and doesn't seem willing to change his mind in any way shape or form.

Like, fair enough, you don't like the guy, but that doesn't mean he doesn't make valid points.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2014 23:22

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

Someone feel like laying down for an ex-pat who CBI are and why their support for a no vote is a big deal?

# ¿ Apr 26, 2014 06:33

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

I'm honestly surprised at the number of anti-independence posters itt.

I mean fair enough, you've got your opinion and all, but do you need to poo poo all over any vaguely pro-independence piece that comes out?

# ¿ May 4, 2014 02:23

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

Delusibeta posted:

Can I have some of that stuff you're smoking?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/scotland-blog/2012/feb/21/rupert-murdoch-scottish-independence-sun

Noted it's from Feb 2012, and it's got that vile lich Rupert Murdoch involved, so take it with a ~~grain of salt~~ a salt mine.

Jedit posted:

This is a debate thread in a debate forum. Debates have more sides than the one you agree with. That's why they're debates.

Yes, but what relevance does Alex Salmonds personal opinion on the russian leader, have to a newspaper declaring their support for Scottish Independence, other than to muddy the waters and bring the focus on Alex Salmond?

tithin fucked around with this message at 02:36 on May 4, 2014

# ¿ May 4, 2014 02:33

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

Jedit posted:

He is the elected head of a political party whose central plank is independence, the primary focus of the independence campaign and the most likely candidate to be the first leader of Scotland in the event of a Yes vote. His personal beliefs are, therefore, of great relevance to the people of Scotland.

And what relevance does that have, to a newspaper declaring their support for an independent scotland, given that an independent scotland is what they are supporting, and not Alex Salmond as our immortal god king?

# ¿ May 4, 2014 02:44

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

As an ex-pat, I'd like to be able to cast my vote as a yes, but I don't get a say.

The reasons for my being an ex-pat are largely outside of my control (parents emigrated before I reached age of majority) so it is a little bitter, but I understand the reason I can't vote, so....

# ¿ May 9, 2014 14:48

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

Pissflaps posted:

The result is going to be a safe No win.

No malice intended in this, but I hope you're wrong.

Pissflaps posted:

Don't forget the nasty little fucker's Hillsborough opinions.

Fill me in, what was that about / who is this guy?

# ¿ May 10, 2014 23:16

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

Umiapik posted:

I wish those pesky 'don't knows' would make their minds up.

But yeah, this collection of polls does seem to show that the Yes vote is gradually moving upwards, while the No vote decreases correspondingly. Whether that trend'll hold until September is anyone's guess, of course! If only I was a political columnist: I'd could get paid for idly speculating about this sort of stuff. "On the one hand; on the other hand...."

By the graph above, DKs are decreasing, though not so quickly as Yes increases, nor No decreases.

# ¿ May 11, 2014 10:32

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 4, 2024 23:56

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

baronvonsabre posted:

Progressive haven't done a poll since November, this is actually a 6% swing towards Yes from them. Also, Prof Curtice has updated the poll of polls graph with their poll.

Really?

so they've just put "gap widens by 6%" and then displayed a movement away from yes towards no, despite that not being reflected in the poll?

Good lord.

# ¿ May 11, 2014 13:58

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Scots Wha Hae - Scotland's Independence Referendum