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Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003



Muldoon



Unsurprising after their Smart Glass announcement at E3, but Microsoft's getting in the consumer tablet game in earnest. Talk about here I guess. I can work on updating the OP as I learn more, or someone else can take over the thread.

The Verge coverage

Star War Sex Parrot fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Jun 19, 2012

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Aatrek
Jul 19, 2004

by Fistgrrl


That magnetic smart-cover-esque touch keyboard is pretty wicked. It's awesome that the OS changes colors depending on which color keyboard you attach.

That kickstand is pretty slick, too.

Sir Bobert Fishbone
Jan 16, 2006

Beebort


I might be the only person on the planet who doesn't see any use for tablets and has no interest in buying or using one beyond straight novelty value, but there's a chance this could bury the ultraportable laptop sector pretty soon with that sick-looking keyboardcover. I'll be following developments.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003



Muldoon

Tablets aren't really anything anyone "needs" but once you use one the usage model is extremely attractive and hard to break away from for a lot of folks.

Matlock
Sep 12, 2004

Childs Play Charity 2011 Total: $1755


I can't wait to get hands-on with a real one. Really disappointed in the TouchPad as a tablet (even rooted, with Android), and the iPad 2 came up a bit short of my expectations.

The big question now is whether or not the difference between the ARM and Intel tablets will be huge for the average user.

AppleCobbler
Feb 8, 2003
remember that time I was just chilling out and definitely not having a massive meltdown? right guys? guys???

*says goodbye to this godforsaken android tablet*

*goes into slumber for next 6 months*

*hopes this isn't vaporware by the time I wake up*

Posting Principle
Dec 10, 2011

by Ralp


1366x768 in late 2012.


Matlock posted:

The big question now is whether or not the difference between the ARM and Intel tablets will be huge for the average user.

The main difference is going to be the price. If it costs as much as an ultrabook, most people would be better off with an ultrabook.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003



Muldoon

Maybe I'm not understanding Microsoft's strategy here, but Windows 8 on a tablet gives me pause. On the one hand, it'll be a consistent user experience. On the other hand, it'll be a completely inconsistent user experience with respect to application support, forcing users to understand the difference between ARM and x86-powered Windows 8 tablets. It seems like a consumer education nightmare to me, and will result in folks wondering why not every Windows 8 tablet can run Windows 8 desktop applications.

By all means please tell me if I'm mistaken.

Matlock
Sep 12, 2004

Childs Play Charity 2011 Total: $1755


computers posted:

1366x768 in late 2012.

A majority of laptops sold have that resolution, on 15.6" screens. It's perfectly acceptable on a 10.6" screen.

Republicans
Oct 14, 2003

- More money for us

- Fuck you




What interests me most about Windows 8 tablets is the prospect of them being as functional as a notebook with a full OS whereas the iPad is pretty much just a big iPod Touch. I've been wanting something like this for my job for a while now, and while my HP 3105m has served me very well the notion of being able to easily walk around the kitchen with a tablet and stylus making out the day's prep or order list and being able to write notes on them before printing them out is super sexy.

Sneaking Mission
Nov 11, 2008



The Surface will be the best tablet cover on the market once it's out.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003



Muldoon

Republicans posted:

What interests me most about Windows 8 tablets is the prospect of them being as functional as a notebook with a full OS whereas the iPad is pretty much just a big iPod Touch.
I don't think you get how powerful and useful a 2048x1536 10.1" iPod Touch is, but that's not a topic for this thread.

LegendaryFrog
Oct 8, 2006

The Mastered Mind


Microsoft really left a good impression with this announcement. This is the clearest vocalization yet that they are finally committed to thinking about ecosystems of both hardware and software. If they keep it up, they could certainly start posing some credible challenges to the iOS and android entrenched.

They just have to get the price right...

Butt Savage
Aug 23, 2007


Gonna cross-post from the Windows 8 thread since Star Trek Porn Bird wants to keep it on topic:

gdgt posted:

Surface is designed to seamlessly transition between consumption and creation, without compromise. It delivers the power of amazing software with Windows and the feel of premium hardware in one exciting experience.

http://gdgt.com/microsoft/surface/for-windows-pro/

This is exactly what I want from my tablet experience. I want the security of being able to switch from lazing around and watching poo poo on YouTube to "oh my god, I forgot to do research for this paper due Friday, good thing this thing turns into a fully capable notebook that I can use at the library."

Like others have said, if the battery life is 50% as good as the iPad's, I'm sold. This is the first iteration of a notebook/tablet that isn't one of those awkward convertible tablets like the Lenovo X-series or a gimped machine like an iPad. I'm excited Microsoft is going in this direction for the simple fact that it's what I'm looking for in my mobile experience.

And am I the only moron who's excited to use OneNote on this thing? Group projects are going to be so awesome.

Posting Principle
Dec 10, 2011

by Ralp


Republicans posted:

What interests me most about Windows 8 tablets is the prospect of them being as functional as a notebook with a full OS whereas the iPad is pretty much just a big iPod Touch. I've been wanting something like this for my job for a while now, and while my HP 3105m has served me very well the notion of being able to easily walk around the kitchen with a tablet and stylus making out the day's prep or order list and being able to write notes on them before printing them out is super sexy.

Can you explain what you mean by a `full OS`. Every use case you wrote can be done with a big iPod Touch.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

Maybe I'm not understanding Microsoft's strategy here, but Windows 8 on a tablet gives me pause. On the one hand, it'll be a consistent user experience. On the other hand, it'll be a completely inconsistent user experience with respect to application support, forcing users to understand the difference between ARM and x86-powered Windows 8 tablets. It seems like a consumer education nightmare to me, and will result in folks wondering why not every Windows 8 tablet can run Windows 8 desktop applications.

By all means please tell me if I'm mistaken.
You are not.

Syrinxx
Mar 28, 2002

Death is whimsical today



Here's a super cool promo video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpzu3HM2CIo

I'm pretty excited for this, I will definitely be buying one. Android tablets just never got their poo poo together.

TheRevolution1
Sep 21, 2011


Star War Sex Parrot posted:

Maybe I'm not understanding Microsoft's strategy here, but Windows 8 on a tablet gives me pause. On the one hand, it'll be a consistent user experience. On the other hand, it'll be a completely inconsistent user experience with respect to application support, forcing users to understand the difference between ARM and x86-powered Windows 8 tablets. It seems like a consumer education nightmare to me, and will result in folks wondering why not every Windows 8 tablet can run Windows 8 desktop applications.

By all means please tell me if I'm mistaken.

I think this won't even be a problem because most consumers will look at the pro version and think, "that tablet is so big/heavy and expensive, why would I ever want that?" and just end up getting the regular RT version. I'm pretty sure Microsoft is targeting only the power-user that actually knows the difference between the two with the pro version. The average user wants their tablet oriented apps/web browsing/angry birds and not much else.

So that basically leaves the RT as another ipad competitor while the Pro is more of a tablet/ultrabook hybrid device targeted towards people who want a full OS experience in an even smaller form factor than a regular ultrabook. It's more competition to the macbook air than to the ipad in my opinion.

Posting Principle
Dec 10, 2011

by Ralp


Butt Savage posted:

And am I the only moron who's excited to use OneNote on this thing? Group projects are going to be so awesome.

OneNote already exists on tablets though.

LegendaryFrog
Oct 8, 2006

The Mastered Mind


Butt Savage posted:

And am I the only moron who's excited to use OneNote on this thing? Group projects are going to be so awesome.

No, that was one of the first thoughts in my head with this as well. I run a game development studio and this could be extremely useful to have around the workspace.

computers posted:

OneNote already exists on tablets though.

Not in an input form that is bearable to use which can keep pace with actual development. A stylus is still uniquely suited to solve a lot of needs that are out there.

LegendaryFrog fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Jun 19, 2012

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003



Muldoon

TheRevolution1 posted:

The average user wants their tablet oriented apps/web browsing/angry birds and not much else.
The problem is that you're going to get a lot of people buying the ARM version and wondering why their Steam library doesn't work.

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

Get the fuck in your cage and shut the fuck up, you stupid fucking Mexicans. Your voice doesn't fucking matter unless you support OUR rapist.

OBAMA DID NOTHING WRONG


I don't see how the Pro will compete with "real" laptops - its cover keyboard will be better than its tablet competitors but it's still going to suck compared to an actual keyboard.

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006



Instead of all the kickstands, keyboard covers, and doodads why can't any tablet manufacturer make a legitimately better tablet? I'd put up with 1366 and half the battery life if it was as light as a Kindle.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Matlock posted:

A majority of laptops sold have that resolution, on 15.6" screens. It's perfectly acceptable on a 10.6" screen.
When your main competitor in tablets - and hell really, your only competitor at this point, offers far, far higher resolution with tons of apps already designed for that res, and will likely be close to the successor by the time the first Surface ARM ships?

As well, it will likely have Tegra3. The GPU in the retina iPad smokes it, now.

1366x768 laptops are "acceptable" because they're $400 and full PC's to boot. They're not competing with the iPad - the ARM Surface is.

Syrinxx
Mar 28, 2002

Death is whimsical today



Star War Sex Parrot posted:

The problem is that you're going to get a lot of people buying the ARM version and wondering why their Steam library doesn't work.
This differentiation exists in the Apple universe too. To my knowledge you can't use the desktop version of any Apple software on an iPad. I don't think anyone's expecting to run Adobe Photoshop Lightroom full version on their tablet.

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

shrike82 posted:

I don't see how the Pro will compete with "real" laptops - its cover keyboard will be better than its tablet competitors but it's still going to suck compared to an actual keyboard.
As well, the problem of tablets with attachable keyboard is that you need a perfectly flat surface to make them usable. Hell these days I think I do more typing with the Air on my lap or stomach than actually at a desk.

I'm not sure the idea that some are expressing along the lines of "Hey this is great, I can be casually surfing in the park, then switch to productivity mode to get poo poo done!" is really being fully thought out.

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006



Syrinxx posted:

This differentiation exists in the Apple universe too. To my knowledge you can't use the desktop version of any Apple software on an iPad. I don't think anyone's expecting to run Adobe Photoshop Lightroom full version on their tablet.

Sure, but it's not a 'MacPad' or 'Macintosh iPad'.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003



Muldoon

Syrinxx posted:

This differentiation exists in the Apple universe too. To my knowledge you can't use the desktop version of any Apple software on an iPad. I don't think anyone's expecting to run Adobe Photoshop Lightroom full version on their tablet.
I don't think people assume you're able to, though. iOS and OS X are marketed completely separately. Windows 8 and Windows 8 RT is not enough of a distinction for consumers.

MS' way around this is Smart Glass, and the consumer having a desktop on/a MS cloud computing service to offer Windows 8 desktop applications to run on their ARM tablets with minimal lag.

TheRevolution1
Sep 21, 2011


Star War Sex Parrot posted:

The problem is that you're going to get a lot of people buying the ARM version and wondering why their Steam library doesn't work.

I think steam is a bad example, pc gamers tend to know their tech stuff relatively well.

The point I'm trying to make is I don't believe the average user will be walking into the Microsoft store hoping to run their windows programs on the RT tablet anymore than apple users expect to run their OSX software on the ipad. I think they're more likely to be surprised when the pro version runs their windows software rather than be surprised when the RT one doesn't.

Posting Principle
Dec 10, 2011

by Ralp


mod sassinator posted:

Instead of all the kickstands, keyboard covers, and doodads why can't any tablet manufacturer make a legitimately better tablet? I'd put up with 1366 and half the battery life if it was as light as a Kindle.

Apple is the only company willing to invest in their supply chain, so they get all the best parts. Every other manufacturer is in a race to the bottom using whatever parts they can get cheapest. Once Apple has started a trend (like high DPI displays) it becomes very difficult for the other manufacturers to catch up, because Apple has already secured the supply of the necessary components.

Companies don`t make better tablets because they can`t afford to, or they don`t want to make the significant upfront purchases that are necessary.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003



Muldoon

TheRevolution1 posted:

I think steam is a bad example, pc gamers tend to know their tech stuff relatively well.
The vast majority really don't. Just look at how lovely a lot of the hardware is on the Steam hardware survey.

AppleCobbler
Feb 8, 2003
remember that time I was just chilling out and definitely not having a massive meltdown? right guys? guys???

Did nobody else think the stylus support with the magnetic holder on the side was slick? I thought that was a huge one-up, and a compelling reason to use it. Taking notes would be much more convenient on something like this, rather than typing on a cramped 10 in keyboard or one of those lovely bluetooth keyboards

Happy_Misanthrope
Aug 3, 2007

"I wanted to kill you, go to your funeral, and anyone who showed up to mourn you, I wanted to kill them too."

Syrinxx posted:

This differentiation exists in the Apple universe too. To my knowledge you can't use the desktop version of any Apple software on an iPad.
No, but you could run the tens of thousands of iPhone apps on the iPad the day it came out. It was very obvious from day one it was not a Mac product, hence nothing in the name says Mac or OSX.

Windows ARM is called "Windows RT". It ships with Office, and the same interface with the desktop as their actual, full-fledged X86OS. It is completely understandable how someone could pick up a WindowsRT tablet and be ticked that their apps don't run.

There is absolutely no comparison between the potential level of confusion and how Apple has differentiated the iPad/iOS from OSX.

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006



computers posted:

Apple is the only company willing to invest in their supply chain, so they get all the best parts. Every other manufacturer is in a race to the bottom using whatever parts they can get cheapest. Once Apple has started a trend (like high DPI displays) it becomes very difficult for the other manufacturers to catch up, because Apple has already secured the supply of the necessary components.

Companies don`t make better tablets because they can`t afford to, or they don`t want to make the significant upfront purchases that are necessary.

Which is sad because MS is one of the biggest companies and perhaps the best suited to try playing the tablet hardware game by Apple's rules. The Surface just seems like an admission that Apple has hardware manufacturing down so well you can't try to directly compete and instead need to try other gizmos in the hope something sticks.

Butt Savage
Aug 23, 2007


computers posted:

OneNote already exists on tablets though.

Sure, but they don't provide me with the capabilities I'm looking for when I think of working on a tablet-like computer. I like the idea of doing heavy research in Laptop Mode using the Windows desktop, and then transitioning to Tablet Mode when I want to show my notes to my classmates/co-workers for review and edits. I know there are laptop/tablet hybrids that can do similar things, but they never caught my eye like Surface does.

AppleCobbler
Feb 8, 2003
remember that time I was just chilling out and definitely not having a massive meltdown? right guys? guys???

Happy_Misanthrope posted:

No, but you could run the tens of thousands of iPhone apps on the iPad the day it came out. It was very obvious from day one it was not a Mac product, hence nothing in the name says Mac or OSX.

Windows ARM is called "Windows RT". It ships with Office, and the same interface with the desktop as their actual, full-fledged X86OS. It is completely understandable how someone could pick up a WindowsRT tablet and be ticked that their apps don't run.

There is absolutely no comparison between the potential level of confusion and how Apple has differentiated the iPad/iOS from OSX.

They'll probaby drop the RT and call it Windows 8 Lite and the other Windows 8 Pro

TheRevolution1
Sep 21, 2011


Star War Sex Parrot posted:

The vast majority really don't. Just look at how lovely a lot of the hardware is on the Steam hardware survey.

I wouldn't say it's that lovely, in the latest survey, 41% are already on DX11 hardware and almost nobody is still on a dx9 card. Besides, plenty of people install steam on PCs that they don't even use on gaming just for the chat function which inflates the lovely hardware numbers.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003



Muldoon

TheRevolution1 posted:

Besides, plenty of people install steam on PCs that they don't even use on gaming just for the chat function which inflates the lovely hardware numbers.
Until Valve adds a pie-chart for "# of unique games launched on this PC" to the survey, I'm not sure you can say that with any credibility.

edit: If I'm reading their Windows version breakdown, over a third of Steam users are still on a 32-bit OS version of Windows. That's not exactly tech savvy to me.

Star War Sex Parrot fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Jun 19, 2012

TheRevolution1
Sep 21, 2011


Star War Sex Parrot posted:

Until Valve adds a pie-chart for "# of unique games launched on this PC" to the survey, I'm not sure you can say that with any credibility.

I think you can sort of assume that. There's also the case of the curious person who installs steam just to screw around with it before realizing his PC sucks and ends up uninstalling/forgetting about it. Making a steam account is free and installing the software takes minutes. It's not the best comparison in the world but there are 32 million minecraft accounts and only 20% of those have bought the game. Any time there's a service with a free sign up there will always be a large percentage of users who don't buy anything or don't use it after the first day. Those are probably the people with lovely PCs as I don't imagine the people with decent PCs who are interested in pc gaming just abandoning steam.

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Chafe
Dec 17, 2009


TheRevolution1 posted:

I wouldn't say it's that lovely, in the latest survey, 41% are already on DX11 hardware and almost nobody is still on a dx9 card. Besides, plenty of people install steam on PCs that they don't even use on gaming just for the chat function which inflates the lovely hardware numbers.

Pretty much any recent video card, no matter how poo poo, can run DX11. The fact that 41% have DX11 hardware doesn't mean anything. All it means that people with Steam bought hardware recently.

The design looks interesting but the screen and touchpad look downright lousy. I understand the benefit of a convergence device but this tablet isn't close to being better than a iPad (2 or 3) at tablet stuff nor is it better than a proper laptop with a non-lovely resolution for proper desktop work.

Edit: The point I'm making is that I'm not so sure whether nor not Microsoft knows what they want their software and hardware to do. Really, carrying a tablet and a dock is still carrying two things. Yes its probably lighter than a ultrabook and tablet combo but I'd personally pick the option that does their intended jobs properly. Boot speeds isn't even an issue these days due to the abundance of SSDs.

Chafe fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Jun 19, 2012

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