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Torsade de Pointes
Feb 14, 2006

Oh, yeah. I name all the operations that go down in Taipei, even the ones that aren't mine. Operation Latex Turtle, Operation Angry Bees, Operation AAAAAHHHH-YOOOOOOOW! Heh. That was a good one.




The Binding of Isaac Store Page ($5)
Wrath of the Lamb DLC Store Page ($3)

What is the Binding of Isaac?
When Isaac’s mother starts hearing the voice of God demanding a sacrifice be made to prove her faith, Isaac escapes into the basement facing droves of deranged enemies, lost brothers and sisters, his fears, and eventually his mother. The Binding of Isaac is a randomly generated action RPG shooter with heavy Rogue-like elements. Following Isaac on his journey players will find bizarre treasures that change Isaac’s form giving him super human abilities and enabling him to fight off droves of mysterious creatures, discover secrets and fight his way to safety.

You start off scared and alone in the basement of your house. Your tears are the only weapon you have against the monsters lurking below. Each level is randomly generated at the start. There aren't endless possibilities, but there is a wide variety of room layouts, monsters, and randomized item drops. This ensures that each game will never be quite the same. You can't save and when you die you must start over. The best way to describe it would be if The Legend of Zelda and a Rogue-like had a baby, a really hosed up and insane baby.


The game was created by Edmund McMillen and Florian Himsl. McMillen is notable for being involved with Super Meat Boy. The Binding of Isaac contains many references to Super Meat Boy and lots of other games that he's worked on. It also contains lots of crude humor like references to goatse, dead babies, poop, as well as the usage of some tired memes. I didn't find the use of memes/internet humor in the game to really detract from making the game enjoyable, nor did I find anything about the game particularly shocking. Your tastes may vary from mine though, so be aware if you intend to check it out.

Check out the Binding of Isaac trailer here

What about the Wrath of the Lamb?
The Wrath of the Lamb is downloadable content released for The Binding of Isaac on May 28, 2012. It integrates with the base game and adds a lot of new things into the mix. First of all, it adds new floors. These floors act as alternates for the original ones. For example, you may end up starting in the cellar rather than the basement. These new floors have their own aesthetic and musical theme, as well as new layouts and monsters. The DLC also adds a new mechanic called curses. Curses can do things like disable your map and increase level size. There are also special challenges you can undertake. The game starts you with a specific item or curse and you lose access to Treasure Rooms. If you complete the challenge, you unlock a new item for the game. On top of all that, the DLC adds tons of new enemies, rooms, bosses, items, and more.

Check out the Wrath of the Lamb trailer here
Warning May Cause Seizures

Should I buy the DLC?
The base game is definitely a complete product and stands on its own. The DLC does add a significant amount of content, but at the moment it is shall we say slightly buggy. If the main game hooks you, then I would definitely recommend checking out the DLC. You may want to get some complete runs under your belt before you buy it because it will probably make things more difficult for you initially. I think the general consensus is that the DLC is good, but it needs some more ironing out.

I'm interested, is there a demo I can try out?
Yeah, you can try out the demo here. It will allow you try the first level of the basement and the first level of the caves. If that's not enough to whet your appetite, check out a few screenshots to see what else awaits you.



Other Resources

Binding of Isaac Wiki
This is a fairly good resource for looking up items, enemies, bosses, etc. It's not entirely complete and obviously not everything is 100% correct still. It can take some of the magic of figuring out what the hell you're doing away.

Cheat Engine
Cheat Engine is a program that will allow you to do various things with the game that you can't normally do. You can make yourself invincible, give yourself whatever items you want, make your own challenges, etc. It's safe and I've used it before to try out different things. There's basically no risk of being banned from Steam since Isaac has no multiplayer component. You'll also need a cheat table (unless you want to do your own programming with it), which you can find here. Make sure you have the latest one. You may have to go back a few pages to find one that's just for the base game.

Control Scheme

WASD - Character Movement
Arrows, Mouse Clicks or Numpad 4/8/6/2 - Shooting in 4 directions.
E or Shift - Drop a bomb. Note that you can push bombs away by shooting them.
Space and Q - Use items and consumable items (pills or tarot cards)

It is possible to get a controller to work with the game. You need to use a 3rd party program like Xpadder or JoyToKey however.

FAQ

How do I open those doors with the sword image?
There are two types of these rooms. One has a plain sword icon. You just have to be at full health. But if you have enough soul hearts to make up the difference (IE: 2 hearts on 3 full, one soul heart) the door will open. If you have Wrath of the Lamb, another type will show up. The icon for this room is a bloody sword. To enter this room, you must have one heart or less health remaining. Soul Hearts don't count towards the total.

How do I get all these items behind pits?
There are lots of ways, but for most rooms you will see some rock tiles near the pits. Blow up a bomb on the side opposite the pit and it will fill the hole. You can't always do this, but there are items that let you fly, levitate, even one that attracts items.

There's a room with a ? on the map, how do I get there?
Bomb the center of any wall next to it will do it. Some items will teleport you there also.

What does * item do? and what is the bar next to it?
You can check the wiki for a fairly full item list, but there are a few item types:

Activated items - These are the ones you use with Space and can be anything from giving you a buff to healing you to FIRIN MAH LAZER.

Collectable items - These are the ones you just pick up and get the effect. Usually they give you a bonus to your stats but they can really do anything like letting you fly, granting you followers or changing the way your tears work.

Tarot Cards/Playing Cards - There are 22 cards that are a one-time use or last for one room for the base game. Wrath of the Lamb adds an additional 5 more cards that can be picked up. These new cards are named after playing cards (2 of hearts, Joker, etc) rather than having strange occult names. You may only carry one card at a time.

Pills - 17 pills that can either be a good or bad effect. Wrath of the Lamb adds an additional 4 pills. These are unidentified at first (unless you have the PHD item), but they'll be identified once you use them so you can recognize them. The colors are randomized at the start of every game. You will only encounter 6 of the 17 or 21 variations of the pills on any one game. Acquiring the PHD or the Lucky Foot will eliminate the possibility of finding pills with negative effects. The PHD will also change any currently acquired negative pills into their opposite positive effect (ie health down pills are now health up).

The bar is the recharge time. You need to clear rooms to recharge it (though there is a certain item...) and unfortunately the amount of bars doesn't represent the amount of rooms needed. Some are fast, some take a while.

Trinkets - Wrath of the Lamb introduces a new item category called trinkets. These items mostly offer passive benefits to Isaac. There are a few that function as followers. You can find them in chests as well as win them from the new Fortune Telling machine. They do not take up regular item space so you can hold one trinket and one active item at the same time. There is a collectable item pickup that allows you to carry two trinkets at once instead of the normal limit of one.

What is Luck?

Xaiter posted:

Basically, Luck ranges from 0-7 and it's given a random value at the start of the game. Cain might receive a bonus with the Luck Foot, we're not sure yet. We're not even sure if "Luck" existed before WotL. Anyway, Seven Years Bad Luck forces your luck to -2.

Your luck impacts the odds of getting a drop in the current room, and if you get a drop, the quality. I believe it works like:

1. Room Cleared, do you get an item?
2. If you do get an item, what category of item? (Bomb, Key, Heart, Chest, Card, Pill)
3. Okay, you've picked your category, now apply trinket effects. Matchstick has a % chance of forcing the drop to be a bomb anyways. Rusted Key % chance of forcing the drop to be a chest, etc.
4. Finally, roll the quality of the drop. Penny < Nickel < Dime, Half Heart < Whole Heart < Soul Heart, Grey Chest < Gold Chest.

I have anecdotal evidence to support this theory, but I also believe the Luck stat affects gambling. I spent 40 cents trying to win a single game in an arcade during 7 Years Bad Luck didn't win a single time. That's... unlikely. I believe luck impacts steps #1 and #4 only. Luck doesn't appear to have any influence what pill or card drops, or what pills are put into rotation. That's just real, plain dumb chance.
Tips

• Bomb rocks that are a different color for some pick ups.

• Bad Trip pills will normally damage you, however if you're at 1 heart or less they act as a full heal
• Slot machines can have some very nice rewards. It can be quite tedious though if you have a lot of money to burn.
• Blood Donation machines normally take you down to 1/2 heart before using soul hearts. However, in the Womb and beyond they take a full heart and will instantly kill you if you donate with 1 heart remaining regardless of soul hearts.
• Using an item that grants invulnerability allows you to donate to the Blood Donation machine without taking damage. If you have Wrath of the Lamb, this also applies to Sacrifice Rooms and Devil Beggars.
• Bombing machines like blood machines or arcades will give you some pick ups too, so if you're really hurting for a heart or something...
• You can blow open doors with explosives/bombs to bypass particularly tough rooms. This is especially useful in later levels where you take a full heart of damage if you get hit. Doing this doesn't clear the room, so if you have to backtrack be prepared to use another bomb or beat the room.
• The Devil's Shop lets you trade powerful items for hearts, you can randomly teleport there and sometimes it will appear after killing a boss.
• It can be a good idea to spend your money as much as possible. The farther you get in the game and the more money you have, the more likely it is you will encounter Greed/Super Greed instead of an Item Shop or in the Secret Room.
• During the final boss fight in the Depths, try to get the boss to stomp on its eye for massive damage
• The Bible will instantly kill the final boss of the Depths and the final boss of the Womb. However, using it on the final boss of Sheol, Cathedral and presumably The Chest will instantly kill you.
• Eternal hearts are white colored hearts added in Wrath of the Lamb, finishing the level with 1/2 eternal heart will grant you a new heart container. Also, acquiring a full eternal heart at any point in the level will instantly grant you a new heart container. Be aware that Blood Donation machines and Devil Beggars will take eternal hearts before regular ones. It's probably best to save picking up eternal hearts until you are ready to leave the level.


So what are you waiting for?

Torsade de Pointes fucked around with this message at Jul 30, 2012 around 22:09

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Torsade de Pointes
Feb 14, 2006

Oh, yeah. I name all the operations that go down in Taipei, even the ones that aren't mine. Operation Latex Turtle, Operation Angry Bees, Operation AAAAAHHHH-YOOOOOOOW! Heh. That was a good one.


How do I use Cheat Engine?
First, you need to acquire the program and the cheat table as already mentioned. Then, run Binding of Isaac and Cheat Engine.

Occasionally, I've had some problems with stuff not wanting to be checked on or off. Reloading the program seems to fix the issue. It works pretty well for the most part.

Known Issues/Bugs
Achievements have been wonky since the release of Wrath of the Lamb. Sometimes achievements won't unlock despite meeting the conditions for them. Some people have been able to get the Steam achievements to register by simply restarting Isaac. Others have used Steam Achievement Manager to get the ones they acquired, but didn't get credit for.

Unlocked secrets in the game may not show up either in the stats page. In my case, the counter for found secrets keeps going up but my last 20 or so secrets don't actually appear there. The items themselves are showing up in game properly for me at least.

The secret room in The Chest will probably trap you if you enter it. It normally can't be entered, but you can teleport yourself in there if you get unlucky. You can't bomb your way in or out. Not even X-Ray glasses will let you enter or exit. Working properly in latest patch.

Trying to charge Brimstone while firing will cancel the beam.

Conquest can replace War occasionally even though the boss intro shows War.

As of Patch 1.4, secret rooms now appear to only border one room. Working properly in latest patch.

Torsade de Pointes fucked around with this message at Aug 4, 2012 around 03:31

Vargs
Mar 27, 2010



The new topic title sure does look familiar...

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...hreadid=3468847

Oh, right.

Also this game is pretty loving great. Put about a hundred hours into it which isn't half bad for a few bucks, and it's been really enjoyable almost entirely throughout. Not sure how I feel about Wrath of the Lamb though. An absolute ton of extra content and variety for $3 is a really, really good deal, and some of the new items have pretty neat/interesting mechanics. Definitely has helped to keep the game from getting stale. On the other hand, the original Isaac felt like a much more balanced product where you aren't so much at the mercy of the RNG, bullshit room layouts, and bugs.

oldgoatmon
Jul 4, 2004

Ohhh Bitch, You Got Jacked Bitch

The most exciting part of the game is seeing what gets broken with the newest patch

Ghost Head
Sep 16, 2008


After quitting the expansion in disgust, I went back to it when I saw someone post the changes in the latest update. I'm finding it much more enjoyable now that I'm not getting the same 5 items in every single run. I agree that it's not as well-rounded as the original though. It seems more luck-based and some items are just lazy and poorly-conceived but this latest update seems to have restored the difficulty.

Something I haven't had the opportunity to test: If you have the IV bag, could you activate it just before entering self-sacrifice rooms, thereby protecting any spirit hearts/eternal hearts you have? I tried getting out of the self-sacrifice room with the pony's activated ability but it didn't work. It looks like you just sit in the doorway flashing until you decide to move.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Home is where the heart is.




I love how he's fixed this three times now. GG, Edmund.

EDIT: And this is what I get for my hubris. I took another hearts' worth of damage before it killed me. Welp!

CJacobs fucked around with this message at Jun 22, 2012 around 07:37

Lord Lambeth
Dec 7, 2011



I'm at 50 deaths and I haven't beaten the game yet.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014
Proudly supporting Lowtax's medical care 2018


Torsade de Pointes posted:

Tarot Cards - 18 cards that are a one-time use or last for one room.

Pills - 17 pills that can either be a good or bad effect. These are unidentified at first, but they'll be identified once you use them so you can recognize them. The colors are randomized at the start of every game.

There are 22 Tarot cards, aren't there? The whole Major Arcana including The Fool.

It would also be worth adding that there are 17 pill effects, but only six will appear in any given playthrough.

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend

For those curious your bullets can get pretty big in this game. Here's a run I had vs the final final boss!


Don't worry, the image spoiler tags itself !

OptionalPirate
Aug 31, 2008


Has anyone managed to extract sound files yet? I want the dime sound as a ringtone.

oldgoatmon
Jul 4, 2004

Ohhh Bitch, You Got Jacked Bitch

Actually I'd love the sounds too. I really want the sound from 'i found pills and ate them' for a text tone.

Pidmon
Mar 18, 2009

NO ONE risks painful injury on your GREEN SLIME GHOST POGO RIDE.

No one but YOU.


Can you even get 'And ate them' anymore? Every time I see tht one, it's just Puberty.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014
Proudly supporting Lowtax's medical care 2018


Pidmon posted:

Can you even get 'And ate them' anymore? Every time I see tht one, it's just Puberty.

I had it yesterday.

ChibiSoma
Apr 13, 2008

by FactsAreUseless


Someone brought it up last thread, but I was giving it some thought and have to agree that bosses should have more unique items that they drop. Or alternates, if we're talking about the Harbingers.

Peep should have a chance to drop the Peeper
Monstro should drop his Tooth (or an item that lets you bullet-barf like him. Monstro's Stomach!)
The horsemen desperately need a Cube of Meat alternative. Pestilence could drop Ipecac, War drops Book of Anarchy, etc.
Larry Jr. would drop The Poop, of course. It's the booby prize.
Monstro 2 should have Shoop-de-woop as a possible drop.
Loki might already have a chance to drop Loki's Horns, but I'm not sure. He should, though!
Since Steven already does this, Gemini needs to drop a random familiar.
Carrion Queen should get a unique called The Fiery Poop that burns enemies if they touch it. It'd be more useful than the regular Poop item. There's enough that chases you around to make it viable.

Some bosses are harder to figure out items for, though. What the hell would Fistula drop? Or The Widow/Wretched? Mask of Infamy? Scolex could drop Ipecac, too. No idea what Pin would drop, though.

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend

ChibiSoma posted:

Someone brought it up last thread, but I was giving it some thought and have to agree that bosses should have more unique items that they drop. Or alternates, if we're talking about the Harbingers.

Peep should have a chance to drop the Peeper
Monstro should drop his Tooth (or an item that lets you bullet-barf like him. Monstro's Stomach!)
The horsemen desperately need a Cube of Meat alternative. Pestilence could drop Ipecac, War drops Book of Anarchy, etc.
Larry Jr. would drop The Poop, of course. It's the booby prize.
Monstro 2 should have Shoop-de-woop as a possible drop.
Loki might already have a chance to drop Loki's Horns, but I'm not sure. He should, though!
Since Steven already does this, Gemini needs to drop a random familiar.
Carrion Queen should get a unique called The Fiery Poop that burns enemies if they touch it. It'd be more useful than the regular Poop item. There's enough that chases you around to make it viable.

Some bosses are harder to figure out items for, though. What the hell would Fistula drop? Or The Widow/Wretched? Mask of Infamy? Scolex could drop Ipecac, too. No idea what Pin would drop, though.

Fistula: The Parasite? Shots split and all
Widow/Wretched: Spider Butt
Mask of Infamy: Sacred Hearts AND a Flying Item to reward you for putting up with him.
Pin: A random bomb related one like 10 bombs or something.

Huzzah!
Sep 14, 2007

too chill to win

ChibiSoma posted:

Someone brought it up last thread, but I was giving it some thought and have to agree that bosses should have more unique items that they drop. Or alternates, if we're talking about the Harbingers.

Peep should have a chance to drop the Peeper
Monstro should drop his Tooth (or an item that lets you bullet-barf like him. Monstro's Stomach!)
The horsemen desperately need a Cube of Meat alternative. Pestilence could drop Ipecac, War drops Book of Anarchy, etc.
Larry Jr. would drop The Poop, of course. It's the booby prize.
Monstro 2 should have Shoop-de-woop as a possible drop.
Loki might already have a chance to drop Loki's Horns, but I'm not sure. He should, though!
Since Steven already does this, Gemini needs to drop a random familiar.
Carrion Queen should get a unique called The Fiery Poop that burns enemies if they touch it. It'd be more useful than the regular Poop item. There's enough that chases you around to make it viable.

Some bosses are harder to figure out items for, though. What the hell would Fistula drop? Or The Widow/Wretched? Mask of Infamy? Scolex could drop Ipecac, too. No idea what Pin would drop, though.

Gurdy could drop infestation or the mulligan.
Duke of Flies could drop distant admiration, forever alone, or halo of flies.
The Bloat could drops Brimstone

ChibiSoma
Apr 13, 2008

by FactsAreUseless


You know, I'm starting to think that The Virus + The Book of Shadows + The Habit is the secret most broken combo in the game. The Book/Habit combo made my Maggy run of The Chest doable. And on a Cain run that was anything but amazing, I somehow got all three and used them to my advantage. I had to abandon the White Pony, but it was well worth it. Cain's Eye is loose in the basement, I finally got Something Icky to appear in the Basement, so I assume Triachnid is now active, and I only have four characters/secrets to go!

Think I might save Judas, though, and try getting Eve or ??? into The Chest next. Samson I don't think would be too hard. Bloody Lust is a good anti-boss weapon, you just need to get the right poo poo to back it up.

I refuse to use Cheat Engine or SAM! If McMillen's gonna flip us the bird, I'm flipping it right back and doing it legit. Fuckin' glutton for punishment here...

Also? Having Homing Bombs and running across triple-Sin rooms with Wrath is hilarious. Dude's bombs just go right back to him. Lust is probably the hardest of the lot to deal with in a group like that. Even Greed isn't too hard. But Lust will be on your rear end the whole fight and there's nothing to hide behind.

Jibo
May 22, 2007

Bear Witness


College Slice

ChibiSoma posted:

I refuse to use Cheat Engine or SAM! If McMillen's gonna flip us the bird, I'm flipping it right back and doing it legit. Fuckin' glutton for punishment here...

Same here. Even though I died to ??? last night, which was pretty frustrating.

Torsade de Pointes
Feb 14, 2006

Oh, yeah. I name all the operations that go down in Taipei, even the ones that aren't mine. Operation Latex Turtle, Operation Angry Bees, Operation AAAAAHHHH-YOOOOOOOW! Heh. That was a good one.


Jedit posted:

There are 22 Tarot cards, aren't there? The whole Major Arcana including The Fool.

It would also be worth adding that there are 17 pill effects, but only six will appear in any given playthrough.

Yeah, I was taking stuff from the old OP. I'm still updating stuff.

Vargs posted:

The new topic title sure does look familiar...

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...hreadid=3468847

Oh, right.

Haha, whoops. I didn't actually know about the LP thread. I just settled on this terrible thing cause that's the name of an in game achievement and it makes the game harder. It also kind of fit with people complaining about the bugs in the game I thought

Power of Pecota
Aug 3, 2007

It is not that bad, there is hope, there is charity, there is compassion blah blah blah Charles Dickens three ghosts visit Scrooge and he wakes up to life blah blah blah


Is there a good list of achievements all on one page to compare what you have and what you need to somewhere? I'm not seeing one on the wiki with more than 64 when there are 97, and I'd like to know what the 18 I'm missing are.

ChibiSoma
Apr 13, 2008

by FactsAreUseless


Cain's Eye is (maybe) not in the basement! ???'s Soul apparently is!

That's... odd. I hope I don't have to re-beat the Chest with Cain to get that achievement to pop. Are they just tied to characters incorrectly? If I beat it with ??? will it gimme Cain's?

Maggy's Faith seems kinda cool. Looked like it gave me a heart container plus an Eternal Heart when I went down a floor or somethin'. Getting that early in the game until you run across the Polaroid seems alright!

E: drat, first try on my Judas run. Scored the Pony on the first floor and never looked back. Didn't get the Polaroid until the Cathedral, and only after putting like 40 cents into the machine and praying it didn't explode. Full Health pill dropping in the Chest itself kept me alive. Having freezing tears and Little Gish both made fights kind of trivial.

ChibiSoma fucked around with this message at Jun 22, 2012 around 16:14

Torsade de Pointes
Feb 14, 2006

Oh, yeah. I name all the operations that go down in Taipei, even the ones that aren't mine. Operation Latex Turtle, Operation Angry Bees, Operation AAAAAHHHH-YOOOOOOOW! Heh. That was a good one.


Power of Pecota posted:

Is there a good list of achievements all on one page to compare what you have and what you need to somewhere? I'm not seeing one on the wiki with more than 64 when there are 97, and I'd like to know what the 18 I'm missing are.

I think the wiki has them all. Here's all the steam achievements, secrets/achievements for the base game, and secrets/achievements for Wrath of the Lamb.

Raptor1033
Dec 17, 2010

This horse has a wack case of poo brain!


Does anyone feel like the game is constantly telling you to go gently caress yourself?

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend

Raptor1033 posted:

Does anyone feel like the game is constantly telling you to go gently caress yourself?

"You will die alone"
"Stop Playing"
-pictures of a fat stick figure as your starting screen-


What could give you that idea.

Ursine Catastrophe
Nov 9, 2009







We're fine.


Dinosaur Gum

ChibiSoma posted:

Cain's Eye is (maybe) not in the basement! ???'s Soul apparently is!

That's... odd. I hope I don't have to re-beat the Chest with Cain to get that achievement to pop. Are they just tied to characters incorrectly? If I beat it with ??? will it gimme Cain's?

I got ???'s soul after going through with Eve. I think that there's a...you know, minor bug. Or something. I ended up getting turned into Guppy during that run, maybe that has something to do with it?

Geokinesis
Jan 22, 2012

*snort*


Haha only need to pick up the Hairball now for Platinum God.
Then it is just the Chest to beat with everyone.

Rocketlex
Oct 21, 2008

The Manliest Knight
in Caketown


OriginalPseudonym posted:

I got ???'s soul after going through with Eve. I think that there's a...you know, minor bug. Or something. I ended up getting turned into Guppy during that run, maybe that has something to do with it?

Each character seems to unlock another character's item. Since it's happening for everyone, I wonder if that's intentional.

ChibiSoma
Apr 13, 2008

by FactsAreUseless


OriginalPseudonym posted:

I got ???'s soul after going through with Eve. I think that there's a...you know, minor bug. Or something. I ended up getting turned into Guppy during that run, maybe that has something to do with it?

No idea. I just hoorahed the Chest with Judas, shut the game down, started it back up and the Cain's Eye achievement popped. Presumably the other three will follow. But man, beating it with Eve, Samson, and ??? is going to be soul-crushing. Judas went quick because Judas had the attack power to roll the game. I got the Lump of Coal and that was it as far as damage upgrades went. Eve's gonna need power, the dead kid's gonna need some shields and hearts off the screen, and Samson's just going to need a combination of the two.

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend

Geokinesis posted:

Haha only need to pick up the Hairball now for Platinum God.
Then it is just the Chest to beat with everyone.

Platinum God is bugged, just a warning.

redmercer
Sep 15, 2011

by Fistgrrl


Raptor1033 posted:

Does anyone feel like the game is constantly telling you to go gently caress yourself?

Hi! Welcome to Roguelikes. Getting hosed unfairly and constantly is in fact a feature!

Rocketlex
Oct 21, 2008

The Manliest Knight
in Caketown


redmercer posted:

Hi! Welcome to Roguelikes. Getting hosed unfairly and constantly is in fact a feature!

I've never been able to buy that it's an actual feature, really. More like lazy design passed off as a feature.

"Well, there's no way we can properly balance the difficulty of this many gameplay variables so...let's just say that being frustratingly hard is the point."

redmercer
Sep 15, 2011

by Fistgrrl


Rocketlex posted:

I've never been able to buy that it's an actual feature, really. More like lazy design passed off as a feature.

"Well, there's no way we can properly balance the difficulty of this many gameplay variables so...let's just say that being frustratingly hard is the point."

If that were the case he would never had nerfed Tech 2. More to the point, I'm less willing to call a 20+-year-old genre of games a product of lazy designers all the way down the line.

Inudeku
Jul 13, 2008


Just had a completely absurd run where I got tons of health ups, guppy's paw on the depths, polyphemusouaudhkg or whatever and tech 2 on basements. Mulligan in the catacombs and the poloroid in the womb. With samson. Never have to touch that fucker EVER again. Thanks edmund. Now to get back to doing it with every other character. I can't wait for the

Geokinesis
Jan 22, 2012

*snort*


ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

Platinum God is bugged, just a warning.

Bugged in what way?

Also the Parasite is a really good pickup, with high tears and/or homing you can obliterate rooms.

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend

Geokinesis posted:

Bugged in what way?

Also the Parasite is a really good pickup, with high tears and/or homing you can obliterate rooms.

It isn't unlocking for a lot of people, myself included. I picked up every single item and restarted steam and nothin'.

Ursine Catastrophe
Nov 9, 2009







We're fine.


Dinosaur Gum

Rocketlex posted:

Each character seems to unlock another character's item. Since it's happening for everyone, I wonder if that's intentional.

I got Isaac's Head with Isaac.


redmercer posted:

If that were the case he would never had nerfed Tech 2. More to the point, I'm less willing to call a 20+-year-old genre of games a product of lazy designers all the way down the line.

I don't think that it's a matter of "lazy" so much as "impossible to cross test everything, especially on a shoestring budget with 2 developers". (But still with a hint of lazy in BoI's case )

But, I never really could get into nethack, and BoI is basically my first true "roguelike", so I can't speak to any blatantly broken-or-overpowered item combinations in other games.

Rocketlex
Oct 21, 2008

The Manliest Knight
in Caketown


redmercer posted:

If that were the case he would never had nerfed Tech 2. More to the point, I'm less willing to call a 20+-year-old genre of games a product of lazy designers all the way down the line.

There's nothing intrinsic to the roguelike formula that requires the experience to be dickish and masochistic, just like there's nothing intrinsic to the formula of 2D sidescrolling platformers that requires the experience to be dickish and masochistic and yet that was practically the standard back on the NES.

On the NES, making absurd difficulty the norm was meant to cover up for the fact that the games only had about 45 minutes of content at the most and keep you from seeing all there is to see within your first sitting. When developers and players insist that absurd difficulty is intrinsic to the roguelike formula, even though it isn't intrinsic to the mechanics on paper, it makes me wonder what this difficulty is meant to hide.

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011


redmercer posted:

Hi! Welcome to Roguelikes. Getting hosed unfairly and constantly is in fact a feature!

I think it's way more "Ed is trolling the playerbase". Though, that'll be more confirmed if Ed's recent "it's done" on formspring means no more updates instead of just no more content updates.

e: On reflection, there's a kernel of legitimate reason in there only being two main developers for not being able to test things fully, but it strikes me as douchey to prioritize bugs that favor the player and make some people's experiences less fun over bugs that ruin the fun for everyone, and also as such to make humping a fortune teller machine for an hour or so to find the Polaroid 'very set in stone'. It also drives me a little nuts that Ed doesn't just get a tester or two; he could probably find somebody willing to test his game for free ffs.

Ignatius M. Meen fucked around with this message at Jun 22, 2012 around 17:57

Torsade de Pointes
Feb 14, 2006

Oh, yeah. I name all the operations that go down in Taipei, even the ones that aren't mine. Operation Latex Turtle, Operation Angry Bees, Operation AAAAAHHHH-YOOOOOOOW! Heh. That was a good one.


I'll try to add any bugs that are mentioned here to the OP. I think the Invuln glitch is fixed. I know the achievements and secrets are still not really working. Any other glaring issues that should be added?

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Ursine Catastrophe
Nov 9, 2009







We're fine.


Dinosaur Gum

Ignatius M. Meen posted:

I think it's way more "Ed is trolling the playerbase". Though, that'll be more confirmed if Ed's recent "it's done" on formspring means no more updates instead of just no more content updates.

I'm not going to lie, I would re-buy BoI if it meant that they do it in a language that doesn't suck.

Edit:

Torsade de Pointes posted:

I'll try to add any bugs that are mentioned here to the OP. I think the Invuln glitch is fixed. I know the achievements and secrets are still not really working. Any other glaring issues that should be added?

Monstro II deep breaths more.

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