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Samurai Warriors 2 deserves a recommendation because I believe it has the best storytelling your going to get from the series. It can be pricey for the whole experience on the 360 though, since XL is still $25 since it's DL only. Samurai Sanders posted:
I think this is just due to natural inflation over sequels, they usually only add things to moveset and rarely nerf. Dynasty Warriors 7 makes Lu Bu doable by having a lot of guard break attacks or allowing you to do massive damage while you can. Earlier games your moveset was limited, so you didn't always have a trick to get around Godmode enemies. DW7 actually suffers from this due to there being a lot of quickly used moves that just break guards, a few characters can heal with their Musuo(Yuan Shao/Pang Tong are awesome at just staying alive with this if you're good at running), and some characters just have loving ridiculous moves. Zhang Jiao's Meteor Rain musuo basically utterly destroys swarms of officers with one button press. A lot of characters have out and out grapple moves that just ignore blocking.
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Jul 5, 2012 07:00
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Endorph posted:I don't think any DW game outright forces player 2 to follow the plot. This of course leads to plenty of absurd nerd fun. Being Player 2 Liu Bei in Dynasty Warriors 6 Lu Bu story mode. "Those who stand in the way of virtue shall fall!" Yes, Liu Bei, fight hard for the virtuous Lu Bu murder rampage. 
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Jul 5, 2012 20:17
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The Xiahou Dun Beatstick got a massive buff with DW7 as DLC. It's actually one of the best weapons now. Pang De probably is pretty beastly with it - Haven't played Orochi 3. Dynasty Warriors 6 is a fun game, but it has a lot of flaws and a lack of content issue. It was their attempt to revolutionize the series and it really kind of has a Dynasty Warriors 2 Vibe (17 or so characters with unique weapons and stories.) It's worth a look if you see it for cheap.
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Jul 7, 2012 00:26
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Belzac posted:That's not very much like DW2 at all since 2 only had 3 unique stories and about 12 unique weapons with a bunch of clones. Comparing DW6 with DW5, you have a lot less unique stories, unique weapons, and a hell of a lot of clones. A lot less stages too. It was an attempt at rebooting the engine, and they probably originally intended DW7 to be as 3 was to 2 - a mastering of the engine with a slew of content with a lot less clones, more stages, etc. DW7 is pretty badass, don't get me wrong, but there is a part of me that wonders where a more heavily polished DW6 would have went. They basically solved the Renbu problem in 6:Empires by removing it entirely(if you had a max quality weapon, you act as if you have infinite renbu all the time), and expanding the Tome system into a cooldown based special system.
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Jul 7, 2012 06:04
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Gracia on Horseback has always been a roaming death machine, in all of her appearances. Zhou Tai in his DW5-style incarnations was also death on a horse despite no horseman styled backstory. It only really makes sense on Ma Chao.  Gracia's back story is that she is Mitsuhide Akechi's daughter who after his death was sent off to a remote location. She converts to Catholicism after Hideyoshi outlaws it, Mitsunari Ishida tries to capture her as a hostage, her retainers kill her and them themselves, because suicide is a sin in Catholicism. Being a Christian of course, means KOEI decides to make her a magic hurling sorceress. This is why these games are stupid awesome.
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Jul 20, 2012 17:02
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Omp posted:What? Isn't everyone playable in Dynasty Warriors still from the Three Kingdoms era? Fu Xi and Nu Wa were in DW3 originally as secret characters, being figures in mythology. Bao Sanniang & Diao Chan probably didn't exist in real history either, and Sanniang wasn't even in the novel. Sun Tzu seems like he'd better fit in an Orochi game with it's time fuckery. Although it'd be humorous to have Sun Jian wheel out his great xwhatever grandfather who has so mastered the art of war that he has defeated death.
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Sep 12, 2012 21:16
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I'll block in a duel situation in 7, or when coming out of an attack that tosses around my camera to re-position and block any trash attacks. Otherwise? Nope. Unless I'm deliberately drawing out the fight for whatever reason, offense is the best defense.Samurai Sanders posted:I think most action games are like that, there's a block feature but it hardly ever gets used because dodging is almost always better. Demon's/Dark Souls is the only counterexample I can really think of. Wrestling games if they count as action games in this argument. Blocking/Countering is a fundamental aspect of the system and usually open the window for offensive return fire. Basically blocking needs to reward the player for doing so beyond 'you avoid damage' to be worth the time. Wheresmy5bucks fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Sep 16, 2012 |
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Sep 16, 2012 23:15
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I've kinda always wanted Liao Hua as a playable character because it'd give Zhang Jiao an actual PC lieutenant. All the other 'Other' characters have PCs in their armies - Yuan Shao has Zhang He & Zhen Ji, Dong Zhuo has Lu Bu and Zhang Liao, etc. - parity or something for the Yellow Turbans. Plus I think they could do a cool story of a man who has literally lived through the entire thing - from the Yellow Turbans to the Fall of Shu. Think they've shied away from him because Huang Zhong has always had the 'Old Veteran fighting way past him prime' niche locked down, and the story that Liao Hua was basically regarded AS a generic in history. Some quote goes I believe "As Shu's Heroes die, Liao Hua emerges.", writing him off as second class. Also have kinda wanted Chen Gong as a PC too since the Dynasty Warriors 6 Lu Bu/Diao Chan stories. He has a decent true story, and you could make a fun character out of "The Man manipulating the raging beast". Belzac posted:
DW7 showed they weren't afraid of healing Musuos anymore. Have to wonder how bullshit they'd have to make it to do it justice compared to the bullshit you could pull with Yuan Shao/Pang Tong/Guo Hai.
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Nov 1, 2012 00:59
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Looking like it's an expansion of 7 for the most part, which isn't a terrible thing. More decloning and polishing can only help. Kinda wish they went back to the daggers for Gan Ning, was unique and fitting. Lu Meng is unique through everyone else being given different weapons. Biggest test is whether they leave all the sword kings the same again. Xiahou Dun was out in expansions, but that's still Sun Quan/Jian, Cao Cao, and Sima Zhao sporting it. As far as screenshots can say, looks like Sun Jian still has it, but it was based off his 6 moveset anyway, so if anyone keeps it it should be him. If you appropriate the rest of the 7DLC weapons not included in XL/Orochi as a guess of who they're meant for: Boomerang: Zhu Rong Buckler Blade: Cao Ren Wands: Da Qiao? Lightning Rapier: Sima Shi? Ring: Ding Feng? Ko: I never understood who this was meant to be for or who'd it make sense to give to. I think it's MASTER OF THE KO stage is held by Gan Ning but he still had the Sickle in Orochi, soo... It basically leaves the only clones as the sword, twin swords(Liu Bei/Lu Xun) and rapier(Yuan Shao/Liu Shan). Not perfect, but a hell of an improvement.
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Dec 2, 2012 01:35
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If you get Samurai Warriors 2, try to get XL with it. I think Katsuie/Toshiie have a decent storyline between them, and Gracia in SW2 is a fun and creative implementation of that game's special system. I don't know if she still plays like that in 3XL. I'm actually annoyed when Gracia is usually nerfed to all hell in Orochi games. She got nothing for it in Orochi2 and was kinda crappy because of it, Orochi3 seems to have made her normal attacks hit much harder. Still not really the same.
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Dec 2, 2012 17:47
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Jibo posted:Don't Pang Tong and Zhang Jiao both still use staffs? I've got Zhang Jiao using the Pugil Sticks (wands) in DW7XL since they are goofy and magic and their alternates look like flowers which fits his hippie Original costume. Yeah, they both still use the Shaman Rod. Zhuge Liang/Zhuge Dan/Sima Yi all share the Feather Fan too, forgot about those. I could see Sima Yi getting his ridiculous claws back, in spite of them trying to 'soften' him since he's now the Patriarch of Jin. Speaking of which, have they really said what the focus for 8 would be? The new characters(Li Dian/Lu Su/Yu Jin) seem to date it at the standard period for the games without much mind for post-Wu Zhang. Himuro posted:Haha, I feel ya. And when you get there their health bar has moved a blip. "I NEED HELP, NOW!" Dude...you're fighting mooks. I can't decide if I like the tension of an allied officer being overwhelmed by swarms of footsoldiers or not. It's annoying when you have to rescue your commander constantly because you can't leave them alone long enough to kill the base captains, but at the same time, there's something lost in Orochi 3 where I don't even really bother with the base captains because they fail to really affect the battle.
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Dec 4, 2012 06:31
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They pick characters based on what they need and can tell the story they want. Importance in history has a role, but you can't tell me Zhou Tai or Cao Ren(debuts DW4) are more important than Cao Pi(debuts DW5). Hell, you got Cao Pi's wife before him because Wei had no women. There's also a level of catering to to the vocal fanbase - a big portion of the fanbase loves the pretty boy characters, and there's probably a disproportionate Yaoi following for this game. Notice than Jin is all very highly attractive outside Guo Hai, Deng Ai, Sima Yi(a holdover), and arguably Zhuge Dan. I was actually shocked when they portrayed Gan Ning in Orochi 3 as a rambling idiot counterpart to Masanori Fukushima. Gan Ning is massive fangirl magnet, and I'm convinced Ling Tong was added for less than historical reasons.
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Dec 6, 2012 00:46
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I thought maybe they should have done a perspective of Later Wu and Shu, but since history dictates that Shu is being led by a crazy suicidal Jiang Wei who wants to keep smashing his face into Wei and Wu is being led by senile Sun Quan getting drunk and ordering random people killed, it would expose the fact that Wei/Jin ultimately won and unified China through loving up the least.
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Dec 6, 2012 08:58
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They can blame Dynasty Warriors when someone goes on a mass killing with a sword, spear, feather fan, paint brush, or machine guns manufactured in 200 AD. For now, they should blame the proper series. Look at what you have wrought Magoichi and Masamune. 
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Dec 18, 2012 04:10
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I didn't actually mind the Short Pike myself. It seemed so utterly generic to me and really wasn't that fun to use. Nothing really exciting about it at all, average damage, average comboing ability, average range. Compared to the other weapons of the pack that had the Bombs and Beatstick, it was certainly the weakest. Jiang Wei works for it, I forgot he still had the spear cloned with Ma Chao. Moon Ring was pretty awful. I bought it, slapping it on Ding Feng for some trial runs, struggled with killing three officers, switched back to throwing people. Maybe an EX-attack will help it, I don't know.
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Dec 28, 2012 19:49
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The series has a definite power creep going on. 7 revamped and made for a lot of massive crowds, whereas some Samurai Warriors characters are basically unchanged since 2004. Samurai Warriors characters also lost a lot of their unique mechanics due to the way Orochi works. Gracia lost her spell list(although they compensated her by making her standard attacks stronger unlike WO2), The self buff mechanics for a lot of characters suddenly get a lot less valuable(Nobunaga, Ginchiyo, Kanbei, Toshiee), Musashi lost his get his musuo back instantly move. The Musuos themselves face a double whammy - unlike DW characters where they can Musuo and use some R1s, it's one or the other for them. And Musuos based around super-comboing your enemy (Masamune, Kanetsugu, Musashi, Azai, etc.) seem horrendously gutted and don't do all that much damage - whereas I don't really see that problem with any DW character. That said, some SW characters still play well in spite of the disadvantages. Hideyoshi has really good combos and range, Katsuie has always been made for thousands of enemies, Ranmaru seems like he'd come out pretty good at higher level play, Kiyomasa has a better scythe moveset than Yue Ying. I think their are less comically 'bad' SW characters (really, only Imagawa and Goemon come to mind - meant to be terrible and hasn't been updated since SW1. And Mitsunari. gently caress Ishida) then 'bad' DW characters (Xu Zhu and Huang Gai are terrible due to the club moveset, the Rapier is usable but not really fun). Even the lower end middle of the pack characters probably play better - (Okuni/No/Shingen > Zhenji/Iron Fan/Greatsword). I'm not through all of Chaos yet, but I'm going to say it ultimately doesn't matter because you could probably take a team of Xu Zhu/Imagawa/Gyuki through if you had Brilliance. Hoping that changes when I get to harder stages. Belzac posted:He's actually the main character of Samurai Warriors too (as much as anyone can be, he's the Zhao Yun of SW). And I like his moveset a lot. He doesn't have good crowd clearing but his moves are focused on killing a single guy really well. I never understood Capcom picking on Kanetsugu if it's meant to be a jab at Koei. Kanetsugu isn't really ever that super revered in the SW games - he's shown as a member of a trio with Ishida/Yukimura, representing the Uesugi, which is the peak of of whitewashing. He betrays them in multiple paths, and is the rear end of the games jokes often (He's excessively long winded, has a fascination with the word Honor - and actually gets called on it.) Wheresmy5bucks fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jan 4, 2013 |
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Jan 4, 2013 18:24
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Jibo posted:
Looked up some Chaos solo vids on YouTube to reconsider my analysis. Looked up Ba on YouTube. K, guess that's some use then. DW7 bias carrying though, greatsword was awful there, and I'm pretty sure Ba didn't have that buff. Guan Ping seems pretty bad, and was disappointed by him in 7 since I remember him in DW5 being pretty good. I've not done piles of testing, I think for most I only played them once to max out proficiency, so it was gut reactions to playing the characters(growthed them all to Lv20 for full movesets beforehand). I'll defer on most. Not budging on Xu Zhu being terrible. Hate him in every game.  Huang Gai is cool because neck drop suplexes make up for it. I show favor to utterly impractical wrestling moves in a battlefield.
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Jan 4, 2013 19:16
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No clue, guessing they wanted something really different when they added him. Historically/Novel, there's nothing to suggest that he was all that stupid or primal. If anything a sort of arrogant type with personal ambition would probably fly better. Basically, Zhong Hui's characterization is probably more fitting. I do find humor in that Koei's characterization is now depicting interpersonal relationship, with Wei Yan popping up with Meng Huo and company despite no real historical connection.
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Jan 17, 2013 23:44
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Chachi posted:This talk about Zhang Liao just made me think of something: Do we know what weapon Pang De is going to be using going forward? I was pretty disappointed by the club in Orochi 3, mostly because it lacked his incredible second musou from 7XL. That cavalry charge In a way of obsessively trolling the fan base, Pang De will be cut again. But he'll probably keep the Beatstick.
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Jan 18, 2013 03:34
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Doesn't everyone just have their own unique EX weapon now? Like Yuan Shao got some sort of special rapier, and leaving Liu Shan with the generic rapier, everyone who's not Sun Quan got a new sword, all the DLC weapons got assigned? Also I think Weapon Swapping wasn't in Orochi because Character swapping does the same thing if you do it mid-combo.
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Jan 24, 2013 21:36
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Zhang He's a better character when they make him more than just fabulous, and show him competent as hell as I believe he is in the novel and in history(is he even really fabulous in the novel?) Of course, this pretty much goes for any character, it's just the problem of having a million and one characters - it's really hard to flesh them out with so little screen time and without stepping on another guy's archetype. How do you really make Pang De and Xu Huang different?
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Jan 30, 2013 06:01
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Samurai Sanders posted:Haha, a stealth mission in a Musou game. I sort of remember one in 5XL. You played as Wei Yan and have to follow Zhuge Liang's plans perfectly, or else all of Shu withdraws and it's you vs. all of Wei. One of Zhuge's missions is to sneak up on a camp without aggroing any mooks. Also in the Orochi 3 mission, people don't join you and you have to murder Yuan Shao too instead of just Dong Zhuo in that one. Enemy messengers are suicidal, hit me, and got countered by a high level Da Ji I was carting around for the Exp boost. 1-shotted. It's not auto fail. Basically Musuo games do stealth missions right in a way - if you suck at sneaking or following the plans, you have a chance to brute force your way out.
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Feb 5, 2013 23:23
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Static Rook posted:Augh, my musou skills are slooowly coming back to me, but has anybody got any tips for keeping big combos up on enemy officers in DW7? I know about the Bow on horseback trick (stay close and spam strong attack), but is there a less "cheap" way? The highest I can usually get is 10-12 before getting all turned around or pushing the officer too far away. I've had the most luck with Zhang Fei and his musou attack as a finisher, but...eh. I don't like playing as him. Pretty much is learn the weapons - some weapons are just bad at ridiculous combos. Most weapons have S+T attacks is something you can chain for a permanent juggle, and maybe elsewhere too - SSSS+T is the twin sword's permanent juggle move. The bow is easy to combo with- I call this 'musuo archery' in the best way to get high combos(and do really good damage), is to get up close and hit them point blank so they get hit by all the arrows you shoot. Ever since they introduced it in 6, it's counter-intuitive as heck, since you figure bows=range. Also adds the problem since it stops you still, which I just don't like, but understand given it's destructive power. Take into account EX attacks+Musuo too. Liu Bei with Twin Swords has a pretty easy and damaging guaranteed 20+ hit combo with his SSST+Ex+Musuo(make sure you you hit it before they fly too far). Of course, some characters have it stupidly easy. Zhang Jiao's second musuo(Starfall I've called it after the WoW Moonkin ability) is 40+ hits for hitting one button and utterly destroys whole camps of officers at once. Am I the only one who hates the combo padding for better rewards system? I kept judging weapons/characters in 7 for their grinding ability rather than their effectiveness at killing things, which meant otherwise good moves that only hit once were significantly crappier because it would take longer to get this guy up to speed. Also, it's just plain old having to juggle a guy to 24/32 hits(forgot which) for the umpteenth time.
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Feb 11, 2013 21:19
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I believe you can essentially play every Dynasty Warriors 2 stage as DLC for 7. Every stage is jacked up to max and they often prove somewhat difficult because there's little barriers preventing people from chasing you to the ends of the earth, unlike the Theme Park nature of traditional DW7 stages, where most fights are fairly engineered. Zhang Jiao Side Yellow Turbans or Dong Zhuo HuLao Gate is kinda ridiculous in the sheer amount of "Everyone is Out to Kill You" feeling they have.
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Feb 27, 2013 17:38
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RBX posted:Been playing Sengoku Basara on PS3 and its feeling much more repetitive than DW7 or WO3, is there's anything more or should I just stop? I actually felt the same way. Basara's way more repetitive to me - just on the grounds that there's so much filler. I wanted to try all the characters but it got way too obvious I was just going through the same stages over and over with no real change or chance for variation. Basically to me, it feels like Dynasty Warriors blended with Megaman. A character's stage is ALWAYS going to be that. There's no variation, no change in strategy. You make your way to the boss and beat them. Basically, it's no different than choosing your stage in Mega Man except you can play as other characters besides Mega Man- except it doesn't change the fact that Metal Man's stage is exactly the same. A standard DW/SW/WO stage has at least the minor chance that something could play out differently. If the Morale RNG favors the CPU, you have Red swarming your commander. A different strategy (I clear out the north instead of the west first) can make the battle flow differently. Slightly slow on rescuing someone? Battle's harder. It's more of a sandbox than a theme park.
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Mar 17, 2013 08:50
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Chortles posted:
Pretty sure the only named characters were Sun Quan/Liu Bei/Cao Cao/Yuan Shao/Dong Zhuo/Zhang Jiao - everyone else was generics. I think there's an engine limitation on truly giving you every single PC Officer charging you at once. And yes, Chen Gong should be playable already. He had a bit in DW4, and he got way more characterization than any other generic in the series in Diao Chan/Lu Bu's stories in 6. He's aching to be promoted to the main cast.
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Mar 21, 2013 04:33
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My pain problem with SW3 was that it felt incredibly linear. Closed doors everywhere. You couldn't rush the battle with a death rush to the commander or just buy playing assassin and murdering every officer. It made replaying a stage feel the same every time. I've been playing DW3 with XL for the first time, and it's such a different experience from 6 and 7 - mooks are a serious threat that needs to be dealt with, your allies seem to matter(as a distraction from the hyper-aggressive mooks if nothing else). It feels more like a war and struggle than the PC is the unstoppable anime slaughtering hero who takes out a 1000 mooks with every weapon swing. One thing I don't miss is your combo string being tied to your weapon, since it makes that weapon matter so much. I remember when I played through DW5, I'd take a new character on normal through Guan Yu's Escape and that'd get them a 6-hit weapon pretty easily. Is there a good stage for this in 3? Also, I've cleared 3 Musuo modes and I still only have 2 bodyguards? How do you level up the amount you get in a unit? I distinctly remember having a 8-archer death squad flanking me when I played this way the hell back.
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Mar 24, 2013 22:30
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