Dynasty/Samurai/Anime Warriors: Lu Bu and You

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Dynasty/Samurai/Anime Warriors: Lu Bu and You

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

Man I loved this series before I realized each game was just making tiny improvements every time and sometimes getting even worse.

How was Sengoku Basara, better?

In some ways yes, in some ways no.

Best Musou games available right now according to me: Dynasty 7, Orochi 1 (or Orochi Z if you can get it), and Orochi 3. IMO none of the others are worth anything particularly, other than the Empires games that I don't know much about. Even if you are fans of the animes, the anime ones aren't so great I think/hear.

edit: it disappoints me how the characters have been leveled out in the recent games, such that there's usually no reason to not pursue Lu Bu, when he's on the enemy side he's just like any other character, only with slightly higher stats and a slightly more dangerous moveset.

Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Jul 5, 2012

# ¿ Jul 5, 2012 06:39

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 10:17

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Wheresmy5bucks posted:

I think this is just due to natural inflation over sequels, they usually only add things to moveset and rarely nerf. Dynasty Warriors 7 makes Lu Bu doable by having a lot of guard break attacks or allowing you to do massive damage while you can. Earlier games your moveset was limited, so you didn't always have a trick to get around Godmode enemies.

DW7 actually suffers from this due to there being a lot of quickly used moves that just break guards, a few characters can heal with their Musuo(Yuan Shao/Pang Tong are awesome at just staying alive with this if you're good at running), and some characters just have loving ridiculous moves. Zhang Jiao's Meteor Rain musuo basically utterly destroys swarms of officers with one button press. A lot of characters have out and out grapple moves that just ignore blocking.

No, I don't think that's at all, I think it's due to stage design being more automated and less done by hand, so they can quickly and easily make three hundred different stages per game, including DLC and stuff. If you make a random stage generator that puts enemies in the map randomly, they can't have massive gaps between their difficulties or else players won't get a consistent experience. I blame Monster Hunter and PSP development methods myself.

edit: one thing about the anime ones is that, while actual historical events are complex and have lots of nuances that can be mined in order to produce lots of games covering the same time period but with different stories and characters, anime is not.

Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Jul 5, 2012

# ¿ Jul 5, 2012 07:03

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

How much (new) content does Utage have compared to 3 anyway? Sometimes I think about getting that.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2012 19:59

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Chortles posted:

Liu Bei's name was one of the least butchered, while "Cow Cow" is as long a tradition as "Lu Bu" (it's not pronounced like that either).

On the other hand, it's not like modern Mandarin speakers are pronouncing them the same way that they were 1800 years ago, in each of their individual kingdoms spread all over China, anyway.

edit: I should probably read up on Chinese historical phonology, I'm sure there is oodles written about it. I do know that the multiple Sino-Japanese readings of Chinese characters in Japanese is partially due to them being adopted and re-adopted at different points in Chinese history, I'm sure that kind of thing figures into the research.

edit: Wow, Wikipedia says that old Chinese (of which the three kingdoms period represents near the end of) may not have had tones, but rather syllable final consonant clusters that changed into tones later.

Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Jul 5, 2012

# ¿ Jul 5, 2012 20:37

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Belzac posted:

I've never really played any of the Samurai Warriors games beyond the first one but none of them do anything with the Japanese-Korean war do they? I think that be a neat change of scenery. They could add Yi Sun-Sin as a character since he's a historical badass sea captain. It seems strange to have a historical war that most of the characters in the series fought in not be part of the game.

They talk about preparing for an invasion of the mainland sometimes but I don't think ever actually did it. You're right, it would be pretty awesome, but you also need to consider the current political climate between Japan and Korea right now.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2012 01:10

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Egadsman posted:

I've always wanted a Warriors game set in America during the Revolutionary and Civil Wars because why the hell not?
I'd love to see a crazy Japanese take on George Washington and Abraham Lincoln, among others.

The reason that they're using Japanese and Chinese history is it's because what their local market is familiar with, they wouldn't know much in-depth about American history. It sure looks like Troy Musou was a flop, I don't think Koei is going to attempt another Western musou game any time soon. I think it's the most basic game mechanics of the series that most people in the west don't like, so unless they are contemplating changing that, making a musou game specifically NOT for Japan would be pretty foolish.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2012 18:12

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

abagofcheetos posted:

Yeah, but percentages, multipliers... I'm liking where it is going.

It really doesn't look very interesting to me. Amount of fame gained, modified by number of enemy kills and allied losses, difficulty level and so on.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2012 20:20

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

abagofcheetos posted:

Oh really? I thought it would be something cooler than that

Maybe I am just weird for wanting all sorts of city building and economic type stuff to be added.

Well, it has six stats at the bottom: valor, respect (from your citizens I assume), order, strategy, economy, and treason. I don't know much about the Empires series so those may be the normal stats or not, I dunno.

Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jul 9, 2012

# ¿ Jul 9, 2012 20:32

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Falcon2001 posted:

I loved Sengoku Basara, but I found DW7 to be utterly terrible. Controls were stiff and awkward, animations were bad as well. Is Samurai Warriors or Warriors Orochi worth checking out or do I need to bite the bullet and import SB:Utage?

Yeah, Basara's animations are better I think, and other Warriors games will have the same controls and animations as DW7, for the most part. Maybe just get Utage.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2012 20:54

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

I decided to try the PS3 Zill O'll game out, so far I'm fairly liking it, but the introductory period is pretty drat long. It's just a nice simple dungeon crawler hacknslash with (for the most part) the same mechanics as a musou game.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2012 01:10

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Hm, Zill O'll would be a lot more fun if the camera didn't go completely psycho when locked onto a large enemy in close quarters, which is usually how you end up fighting them. In general it's a pretty ho-hum game anyway.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2012 22:19

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

The GIG posted:

I could be just me, but in WO3 does the Samurai Warriors Muosu attacks seem very weak? It honestly feels stronger to just do the Muosu special attacks most of the time.

I think they're only any good if your life is almost gone and it adds that extra REALLY powerful thing onto the end.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2012 22:44

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Belzac posted:

Make sure you're holding down the Musou button. If you press it and release, it kind of works like an invincibility thing where you can run around and do whatever but if you hold it down it works like a continuous attack that usually does pretty good.

I still think it dishes out considerably less damage per musou bar, and is usually harder to aim than a Chinese musou attack too.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2012 01:15

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Lars Blitzer posted:

Am I wrong in thinking that something more like Lord of the Rings or especially Game of Thrones would be a better fit? With their exposure on the big and little screens I would think Japan would have some fan support for it.

Yeah, LOTR might work, I have no idea if Game of Thrones is known over there though. The beginning of the Fellowship movie sure LOOKS like a musou game, with Sauron as your player character.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2012 07:04

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Belzac posted:

Master Asia and Domon for Orochi 4. Make it happen Omega Force.

Not in their gundams though, on foot.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2012 03:48

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

All this Pokemon talk in the musou thread is weirding me out. Not that I have a problem with it, but it makes me wonder if Pokemon Musou is ever coming. I know next to nothing about Pokemon, but which one of them would be the "grunts" if it was a musou game?

# ¿ Jul 16, 2012 19:29

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Policenaut posted:

I recall reading an interview awhile back that while Pokemon Musou was the original concept, they couldn't get the CERO rating down to A (equivalent to ESRB's E for Everyone) so they went with Pokemon + Nobunaga's Ambition.

Yeah, I guess it would be harder for it to be silly fun when you are in an action game slaughtering dozens of pokemons per per second with a sword or whatever.

edit: Orochi 3 is B by the way, for violence and sexuality. The scale goes A, B, C, D, Z, but I have only seen a few Z games and they were in a special section of the game store. Porn games are obviously exempt. Another thing that was always interesting to me is that sexuality and romance are classified independently of each other, and sexuality is written in English.

Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Jul 17, 2012

# ¿ Jul 17, 2012 03:33

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Has anyone else noticed that at least in Orochi 3, if a tank bumps into you in the middle of a musou attack just stops your attack cold, even mid-animation? It's the weirdest thing to see, and annoying when it results in death like it did just now.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2012 08:43

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

I have an opportunity to buy Sengoku Musou 3 Z for $30 at the local import shop, should I take it, or will it just bore me compared to Orochi 3?

# ¿ Jul 18, 2012 19:48

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Policenaut posted:

$30? gently caress, buy it anyway. I paid $80 new for my copy.

Well I mean, I asked because the reviews on amazon.jp were not favorable, some people said it was missing that special something that (some) other musou games have. Do you think so?

# ¿ Jul 18, 2012 20:52

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Policenaut posted:

Hmm... Well, my opinion on it might be a tad tainted. I came into it mere days after investing 300 hours into Sengoku Basara. If I had to judge though, I'd say it feels empty? The maps feel really big and empty with not much detail unlike say DW7.

Oh, well, I don't think the maps in any musou game are particularly full of interesting things anyway. I hardly even notice them when I am running through them. Eh, for $30 I can deal.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2012 00:00

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Wow, compared to any other games I have played, allied generals go down crazy fast in Sengoku 3. Other than that it seems like the normal deal, except for carrying items rather than finding them in the field.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2012 01:57

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

SirPhoebos posted:

Do they at least refrain from screaming for help every minute whenever faced with something more threatening than a gate guard? I got really sick of that in SW2.

Oh, they scream for help, and they mean it. Fortunately there's a consumable item you can carry with you that heals nearby allied generals, on my next time out I'm thinking of filling every slot with them.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2012 02:58

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Is it intentional how much rear end Gracia kicks when on a horse versus on foot, relative to other characters? Is there something about her backstory that suggests that she's a horsemaster or is it just a weird quirk to how her attacks were designed?

edit: in Samurai 3 I'm getting a reoccurring bug where enemy generals aren't where the map says they are. To be more specific though, they are fading in and out of view, like the dimension that they are in is passing in and out of phase with mine, it's kind of creepy.

Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Jul 20, 2012

# ¿ Jul 20, 2012 08:13

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Wheresmy5bucks posted:

Gracia on Horseback has always been a roaming death machine, in all of her appearances. Zhou Tai in his DW5-style incarnations was also death on a horse despite no horseman styled backstory. It only really makes sense on Ma Chao.

Gracia's back story is that she is Mitsuhide Akechi's daughter who after his death was sent off to a remote location. She converts to Catholicism after Hideyoshi outlaws it, Mitsunari Ishida tries to capture her as a hostage, her retainers kill her and them themselves, because suicide is a sin in Catholicism.

Being a Christian of course, means KOEI decides to make her a magic hurling sorceress. This is why these games are stupid awesome.

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure that Nobunaga has magic powers because he was also interested in foreign sorcery, i.e. Christianity.

# ¿ Jul 20, 2012 18:20

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Policenaut posted:

Famitsu talked to a bunch of game creators and the Warriors dude (Kenichi Ogasawara) was there. He had some interesting stuff to say! Apparently he wants to create a "third pillar" of Musou games to stand alongside Dynasty and Samurai, and that he also wants to make an open world Warriors game.

Oh, and Fist of the North Star: Ken's Rage 2 (or "True Fist of the North Star" in Japan) comes out this December. In a confusing and potentially dangerous move, Tecmo Koei will be acknowledging Fist of the North Star 2 ever happened and will include the Land of Asura arc. Raoh's arc is getting more content and the Tentei arc will be coming along for the ride, but I'm unsure whether they mean the HnK1 or 2 version of it. The game will have graphics similar to the manga, rather than the hyper-realistic style of the original, for both gameplay and story sequences. On top of that, there's going to be new gameplay features such as Dash and Evasion mechanics. According to Tecmo Koei, the "volume" of content will be double that of the original!

Yet another series that is going to have a gap between the numbering in Japan and elsewhere eh...

# ¿ Jul 24, 2012 18:34

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Also, and this is an interesting thing about musou games compared to other popular Japanese games, the characters actually have actual relationships, just by virtue of the source material. There's anime-ized but nowhere near to the extent of other Japanese games.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2012 07:27

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Hold on a second here, are there only three weapons (power, speed, normal) for each general in Samurai 3? And there's no way to upgrade their damage? I'm going to be doing poo poo damage forever?

# ¿ Jul 26, 2012 07:06

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Policenaut posted:

Sengoku Musou 3 has a really big equipment upgrading system, you can upgrade weapons in lots of different ways to boost their strengths.

Well yeah, I see that there are a few different kinds of weapon damage upgrades but I have so few of the materials they want, the highest I can get is level 2 and it doesn't seem to make a very big difference, nothing like between a rank 1 weapon and a rank 2 weapon in any other game.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2012 07:12

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Policenaut posted:

The ranks can go up to 3 in total, and there's a bunch like "Attack up against officers" and "Attack up while juggling enemies" you can keep stacking onto it.

Oh, only 3? I thought they went up to rank 10 or something and I was going to need absolutely stupid amounts of materials.

Anyway, I'm seeing the complaints people have with this game, it really isn't anywhere near as much fun as Orochi 3 or DW7. It just seems scaled down and made more bland in a lot of ways. I still love having an Okuni story mode though. Good old Okuni, the woman who made the Tokugawa government ban women kabuki performers.

Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Jul 26, 2012

# ¿ Jul 26, 2012 07:18

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Chortles posted:

Didn't this involve homosexual performers in her troupe?

Oh I dunno, I read that they were entirely too heterosexual and the Tokugawa government banned them for being too burlesque.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2012 10:16

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Policenaut posted:

Get ready for Samurai Warriors 4

I understand that its a 10th anniversary thing but announcing a game a year and a half out is pretty ridiculous, even if it isn't "official".

# ¿ Jul 26, 2012 20:31

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Policenaut posted:

SPREAD TENKA MEWBU OVER THE LAND

Check out Nobunyaga in Dynasty Warriors 7: Empires.

I can't help but feel he would have been better suited for Samurai Warriors 4.

Great, a time traveling giant cat warrior with a occult magic and a habit of reciting Noh theater. Just what the DW series needed.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2012 17:45

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Nipponophile posted:

I just picked up DW7 for 360 after this thread reminded me how much I used to enjoy the series. Is there any way to modify the camera angle? I couldn't find anything, and it's zoomed in way too tight for me. If you're running sideways, you can't see a single step in front of you, and I'm spending as much time swinging the camera around as I am fighting enemies.

e: Also, I saw that there's no XL disc for the 360. Is there a downloadable thing like with SW2 or what?

No, that's the only camera. It's up close to obfuscate the fact that it can't render people very far away.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2012 01:20

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

kissekatt posted:

Holy poo poo I did not know.

Anyway, I came THIS CLOSE to selling Samurai 3Z today, but finally decided to wait on it. It's not doing it for me though, and I've finished two or three characters so far. Also the career mode is just bizarre and not being fun at all.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2012 04:39

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Policenaut posted:

So the Sengoku Basara dude just told Famitsu that the future of the franchise will be revealed later this month at a special event. Seeing as how Sengoku Basara HD Collection is advertised with having a teaser for "the future" of Basara, yeah they're probably going to make another Basara game. Maybe Meiji Basara? Seeing how they've apparently run out of Sengoku period?

That would be seriously awesome (especially for me since I lived in the city where the last conflict in it took place), there need to be way more games set in that period. The problem is that there was nowhere near the number of soldiers and stuff in that conflict.

mikeycp posted:

Heian Basara. Everybody just sits around writing dynamic poems at each other.

Those letters were SO loving EMOTIONAL though. With the right choice of words maybe the recipient could die of romantic longing.

Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Aug 8, 2012

# ¿ Aug 8, 2012 06:01

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

mikeycp posted:

I have a feeling they can take liberties and fudge the numbers in a game with a main character who uses 6 electricity swords while on a motorcycle horse.

I dunno, there are still limits. There were really not that many battles in the meiji restoration. That said, there have been a few pretty good Shinsengumi related games in the past, I played Fu'un Shinsengumi but as you can see, it is a VERY small thing, mostly breaking into people's houses and killing them.

edit: also towards the end, when the real battles started, they were all using rifles.

Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Aug 8, 2012

# ¿ Aug 8, 2012 06:11

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Chortles posted:

You're thinking of the Bakumatsu period (Meiji period is after those conflicts, at least against the Shogunate), but Fu'un Shinsengumi, Domon makes me think of KENGO 3's "indoors" combat gameplay.

You're thinking of the Boshin war, right? I mean, if you mean actually in the Meiji period, what is there to work with?

edit: I guess with some serious romancing, Toshizo Hijikata's last stand in Hakodate could be somewhat musou (or basara)-like. He got shot of course, he brought a sword to a gunfight.

Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Aug 8, 2012

# ¿ Aug 8, 2012 06:28

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Some of the missions in Samurai 3 are such incredible bullshit, forcing you to travel the entire length of the map over and over again with a severe time limit. I've failed one of Aya's stages like that four times in a row now.

# ¿ Aug 9, 2012 03:27

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 10:17

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

5er posted:

I entertain the scantest hope that around the time I feel like playing WO3 again, the costume packs will be bundled together and on sale.

I believe they're bundled together on the Japanese store now, but still kinds expensive.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2012 18:39

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Dynasty/Samurai/Anime Warriors: Lu Bu and You

«‹›12 »