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S.J.
May 19, 2008

A storm is coming.


Is there a worse BL author than Goto? I can't think of one.

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Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007
GW BRAINWORMS CREW OFFICIAL HYPE MAN

College Slice

Xenomrph posted:

He also writes about Eldar a lot

No he doesn't. He writes about things with Eldar names. I'm convinced that he has never encountered anything to do with them other than a word document of Eldar wargear & unit names.


S.J. posted:

Is there a worse BL author than Goto? I can't think of one.

Zou. But it's really a toss up between them, if you set aside the alleged plagiarism on Zou's part.

S.J.
May 19, 2008

A storm is coming.


Rapey Joe Stalin posted:

No he doesn't. He writes about things with Multilaser names. I'm convinced that he has never encountered anything to do with Multilasers other than a Multilaser document of Eldar Multilasers & Multilaser names.

This is a fair point.

Nephilm
Jun 11, 2009

by Lowtax


^^You missed a spot.

Greataval
Mar 26, 2010


I own drat near all BL books I have read even all the awful ones. I like abnett but I could not make it thru eisenhorn,ravanor or guard series.

ed balls balls man
Apr 17, 2006


Greataval posted:

I own drat near all BL books I have read even all the awful ones. I like abnett but I could not make it thru eisenhorn,ravanor or guard series.

Which books did you like?

Greataval
Mar 26, 2010


ed balls balls man posted:

Which books did you like?

His titanicus book all his HH books were all pretty good it just feels his books need another hundred pages he rushes his endings. His black templar comics are pretty good.

ed balls balls man
Apr 17, 2006


Greataval posted:

His titanicus book all his HH books were all pretty good it just feels his books need another hundred pages he rushes his endings. His black templar comics are pretty good.

Ah yeah, couldn't agree more really with the ending part. I'd love to see him write something with similar lengths to Richard K. Morgan's sci-fi stuff (Altered Carbon, Market Forces, Black Man), so roughly 2.5x the length of a normal BL book. In fact i'd pretty much recommend Altered Carbon to those who liked Eisenhorn/Ravenor.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


I think Abnett's issues with endings aren't because of page constraints, he just has trouble wrapping up loose plot threads organically. Half the time it works anyway, and just makes for a really frenzied and exciting conclusion.

Cat Planet
Jun 26, 2010



Yeah it's a huge problem of his. His worst ending ever is Honour Guard, which is literally "thay pressed a button and all Chaos on planet died".

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady


He was kind of building to that throughout but it could have been better. Honour Guard is probably one of his worst though.

drkhrs2020
Jul 22, 2007

by Y Kant Ozma Post


How's the novel based on the Tau FPS Fire Warrior? The Amazon reviews are pretty evenly divided between "great" and "complete poo poo".

Xenomrph
Dec 9, 2005

AvP Nerd/Fanboy/Shill


drkhrs2020 posted:

How's the novel based on the Tau FPS Fire Warrior? The Amazon reviews are pretty evenly divided between "great" and "complete poo poo".
I thought it was great. I read the book before playing the game, loved the book, and then the game is pretty "mediocre-to-bad". The book has a completely different (and much more thematically appropriate) ending from the game, and the book also brings up a lot of the gameplay mechanics and has the main character outright question them - he wonders why he, a lone Fire Warrior, is able to take on hundreds of enemies by himself, including Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines, and prevail where his fellow Fire Warriors all got murdered. I really liked the book a lot.

jadebullet
Mar 25, 2011


MY LIFE FOR YOU!

drkhrs2020 posted:

Also are there any books that follow someone besides the Imperium or Chaos space marines? The only ones I could find were Eldar ones by CS Goto, but even on Amazon they have lovely reviews.

Path of the Warrior was pretty good in my opinion. The CS Goto Eldar books are pretty bad.


I am just voicing my opinion here, but The War for Armageddon was a really good book in my opinion. You have Black Templars dropping into the fray that get hosed up by AA and seperated, as well as a Titan Princeps as the main plotlines. The Black Templar side of it focuses on the Emperor's Champion, and a Dreadnaught. I loved every second of it and I wish I could find another copy of it, but it seems to be out of print.

Of course, because of this, "Helsreach" is starting to get a little confusing for me. Did they retcon the whole Black Templars drop podding in a bunch of marines as part of a crusade?

S.J.
May 19, 2008

A storm is coming.


Holy poo poo are they seriously doing COYA 40k books? That is awesome.

EyeRChris
Mar 3, 2010

Intergalactic, all-planetary, everything super-supreme champion


Do you pledge to fear no death or listen to reason.

>>Listen to reason

You have fallen to chaos and are now a Slaanesh sex slave until they decide your skin would make an awesome team pennant.

Thulsa Doom
Jun 20, 2011

Ezekiel 23:20


They need to do a Chaos one. "Do you spill Blood for the Blood God? Turn to page 87. Do you take skulls for the skull throne? Turn to page 104."

bunnyofdoom
Mar 29, 2008

He wants to come in...



You see a helpless civilian. Do you.

Purge in the name of the god Emperor Turn to page 15
Blood for the Blood God Turn to page 8
Convince to do Cocaine! Turn to page 6
Cough on Turn to page 7
Enlist in some byzantine scheme with hinges on a butterfly flying slightly slower than normal three sectors off, while still have a plan in play for it flying slightly faster Turn to page 9

Mikojan
May 12, 2010

PLANES BITCHES!

Mechafunkzilla posted:

I think Abnett's issues with endings aren't because of page constraints, he just has trouble wrapping up loose plot threads organically. Half the time it works anyway, and just makes for a really frenzied and exciting conclusion.

Yea, if you'd give Abnett 2times the pages to work with he'd just end up with a really fleshed out midsection but his endings would probably remain just as short.

Just bought [/b]the primarchs[b] and I was wondering what stories are worth reading.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless


Young Orc

Mikojan posted:

Just bought [/b]the primarchs[b] and I was wondering what stories are worth reading.

Basically none of them.

Well, The Lion is readable, but some of the others just keep dragging the gently caress on. The first one is definitely terrible, though.

berzerkmonkey
Jul 23, 2003


Cream_Filling posted:

Basically none of them.

Well, The Lion is readable, but some of the others just keep dragging the gently caress on. The first one is definitely terrible, though.

Yeah - I still haven't got through that book. I'm stuck on the Iron Warriors story. I liked the way the Lucius story started out - I thought McNeill did a good job of writing the scene of a debauched king and his court. I could just see something that looked like the palace at Versailles filled with nine-foot tall maniacs in power armor doing crazy things. The Pear of Anguish was completely unnecessary though.

Also, I'm going to be selling off my BL books, as I rarely read anything twice. What is the average going rate for gently used BL books in SA Mart?

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Mikojan posted:

Just bought the primarchs and I was wondering what stories are worth reading.

The Alpha Legion story by Rob Sanders is good, and has the biggest reveal of any of the stories (the Fulgrim "reveal" is really more of a retcon). Rob Sanders is really growing on me, he's not the greatest author in the world but everything he writes is just fun.

The other three range from horrid, to just mediocre and boring.

Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Jul 10, 2012

ed balls balls man
Apr 17, 2006


Mechafunkzilla posted:

The Alpha Legion story by Rob Sanders is good, and has the biggest reveal of any of the stories (the Fulgrim "reveal" is really more of a retcon). Rob Sanders is really growing on me, he's not the greatest author in the world but everything he writes is just fun.

The other three range from horrid, to just mediocre and boring.

His Inquisitor Czevak novel, Atlas Infernal wasn't terrible, had some nice moments.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


ed balls balls man posted:

His Inquisitor Czevak novel, Atlas Infernal wasn't terrible, had some nice moments.

I really liked it, as well as Legion of the Damned, which I'm going to throw up on the "good" list. He writes the weird and arcane very well and has some skills that a lot of BL authors lack, like the ability to write dialogue that doesn't give you second-hand embarrassment.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007
GW BRAINWORMS CREW OFFICIAL HYPE MAN

College Slice

I'm not sure I trust BL to print a CYOA book, all of the "turn to..." page numbers will be misprinted.

a shitty king
Mar 26, 2010


Mechafunkzilla posted:

The Alpha Legion story by Rob Sanders is good, and has the biggest reveal of any of the stories (the Fulgrim "reveal" is really more of a retcon). Rob Sanders is really growing on me, he's not the greatest author in the world but everything he writes is just fun.

The other three range from horrid, to just mediocre and boring.

Can you clarify what the reveal was in the Sander's Alpha Legion story? I read it but totally missed the big reveal at the end. I got that Omegon was just the other Captain the whole time, and that the Primarch's didn't really have much of an idea what was going on but I can't really be sure.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Mowglis Haircut posted:

Can you clarify what the reveal was in the Sander's Alpha Legion story? I read it but totally missed the big reveal at the end. I got that Omegon was just the other Captain the whole time, and that the Primarch's didn't really have much of an idea what was going on but I can't really be sure.

That's not the reveal, just a small plot twist. The reveal comes early on, it's that Omegon has betrayed Alpharius and is destroying the installation so that the Emperor will be able to summon the White Scars.

Greataval
Mar 26, 2010


I did like the lion it kinda cemented the notion that dark angels were a 3rd party during the heresy.

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady


jadebullet posted:

Of course, because of this, "Helsreach" is starting to get a little confusing for me. Did they retcon the whole Black Templars drop podding in a bunch of marines as part of a crusade?
Black Templars don't have companies, they have "crusades".

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Arquinsiel posted:

Black Templars don't have companies, they have "crusades".

Technically they do -- in lieu of the regular squad/company organization, the Black Templars have "fighting companies". A crusade will split into a number of fighting companies (each led by a Castellan) depending on the strategy being employed.

Ardent Communist
Oct 17, 2010

ALLAH! MU'AMMAR! LIBYA WA BAS!


I've gotten the Hammer and Bolter Collection Volume 1, it's got some pretty decent stories. I particularly like the couple of stories that have the Alpha Legion being huge assholes with plans that are hilariously convoluted and impossible to beat. Just typing that, it's kind of odd that they aren't more aligned with Tzeetch, but I guess I kind of like that. Perhaps they're even waging war on the Imperium as a way to toughen it up, purge the dumb, ensure heightened security, so that the Imperium can eventually beat Chaos.

Thulsa Doom
Jun 20, 2011

Ezekiel 23:20


The Alpha Legion are basically devotees of that one Chaos God that's like a fifth Chaos God of Chaos working against itself, but they can't straight up call them that or reference that entity because GW doesn't actually own it.

jadebullet
Mar 25, 2011


MY LIFE FOR YOU!

Arquinsiel posted:

Black Templars don't have companies, they have "crusades".

Right but in "Helsreach" It give the impression that there are 100 marines from the crusade that are the only ones planetside.

Whereas in "The War for Armageddon" One of the Templar Fortress Monastaries gets hit with an ork Rok, ending with only one survivor, barely alive on top of a pile of corpses. (He becomes the Dread.) It then skips ahead to the Templars arriving in orbit above Armageddon, after tracking the orks that smashed their monastary to the planet. At this time, the war has already started, and they enter orbit and start dropping pods. Ork AA fire hits a bunch of them, and they scatter all over the place. I got the impression from that book that the entire Crusade dropped onto Armageddon.

Lovely Joe Stalin
Jun 12, 2007
GW BRAINWORMS CREW OFFICIAL HYPE MAN

College Slice

Ambiguatron posted:

The Alpha Legion are basically devotees of that one Chaos God that's like a fifth Chaos God of Chaos working against itself, but they can't straight up call them that or reference that entity because GW doesn't actually own it.

Malal. In modern GW publications he's usually referenced by either the black/white colour scheme or changing the word to Malice (Sons of Malal/Sons of Malice).

I think he's essentially the embodiment of self-loathing, self-destruction, and rebellion. Not too sure on that though.

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady


jadebullet posted:

Right but in "Helsreach" It give the impression that there are 100 marines from the crusade that are the only ones planetside.

Whereas in "The War for Armageddon" One of the Templar Fortress Monastaries gets hit with an ork Rok, ending with only one survivor, barely alive on top of a pile of corpses. (He becomes the Dread.) It then skips ahead to the Templars arriving in orbit above Armageddon, after tracking the orks that smashed their monastary to the planet. At this time, the war has already started, and they enter orbit and start dropping pods. Ork AA fire hits a bunch of them, and they scatter all over the place. I got the impression from that book that the entire Crusade dropped onto Armageddon.
It's kind of an beauracratic trick to avoid anyone noticing that they took more than 1000 marines to make the chapter. They don't really have the same standardised organisation that other marines do.

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!

Arquinsiel posted:

It's kind of an beauracratic trick to avoid anyone noticing that they took more than 1000 marines to make the chapter. They don't really have the same standardised organisation that other marines do.

And I would like to think they quietly take out anyone who looks over their numbers and go "Hey wait a second here."

Evil_Urna
Aug 15, 2004


Cooked Auto posted:

And I would like to think they quietly take out anyone who looks over their numbers and go "Hey wait a second here."

Correct me if I am wrong but the Black Templars are a bit of an inside joke. There are so many of them in the books and what not because they have the easiest color scheme to paint.

rocket_Magnet
Apr 5, 2005



berzerkmonkey posted:

Yeah - I still haven't got through that book. I'm stuck on the Iron Warriors story. I liked the way the Lucius story started out - I thought McNeill did a good job of writing the scene of a debauched king and his court. I could just see something that looked like the palace at Versailles filled with nine-foot tall maniacs in power armor doing crazy things. The Pear of Anguish was completely unnecessary though.

Also, I'm going to be selling off my BL books, as I rarely read anything twice. What is the average going rate for gently used BL books in SA Mart?

That McNeil story pertaining to Lucius got me so mad, either Fulgrim got possessed or he loving didn't MAKE YOUR loving MIND UP (I honestly preferred that he did, no one knew what the gently caress about daemons and chaos around the HH, it isn't too far fetched that a primarch can fall to a eons old daemon slaved to a loving sword is it? especially when you've talked said primarch into killing his own brother?. The Iron hands novella (gently caress that name) I enjoyed Ferrus Manus being told of him coming demise by a farseer and warlock (or another farseer) was pretty cool.

I totally didn't get what mechafunkzilla got from the alpha legion story I had no idea from that story that omegon was all for the emperor and alpharious was not, shows what I know. I took it as the alpha legion cleaning house .

I recently purchased the new Ciaphas Cain novel and was surprised to find I actually enjoyed if only because the blurb tells you he is fighting an " ancient and implacable foe blah blah.. you've already written this, but was surprised to find out Mitchell wasn't talking 'bout those guys! You were talking about the other guys you've already written about!. It's still in the formulaic version of all Cain books but it's still a good read (You've alluded to Cain's time on a Dark Eldar Reiver ship, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WRITE THE THING.)

What did anyone think of Deliverance Lost?


Maybe they're referring to two separate instances of wars on armageddon? I haven't read the books you're referring to aside from Helsreach. So maybe that's it? It wouldn't surprise me to find that GW has tripped over their own fluff, and that the BT novels you've read are still canon.

rocket_Magnet fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Jul 11, 2012

TheStampede
Feb 19, 2008

"I'm like a hunter of peace. One who chases the elusive mayfly of love... or something like that."


There have been three Wars for Armageddon.

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jadebullet
Mar 25, 2011


MY LIFE FOR YOU!

Right, that is what I was thinking as well. Hell, the book even features Von Straub being incompetant, which was second war, but I really could have sworn that it took place during the third war. (especially because the Templars weren't at the second war according to the BA codex... unless Ward hosed up again.)

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